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I came to this forum to seek input rather than just outright delete the character and chalk it up to another bad experience. Then I found this thread saying how awesome not only dark armor, but claws/DA gets. So tell me, when does it stop sucking so horribly? I've played Doms with better survivability so far.
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You only got to level 9 and you're complaining about lacking survivability? It won't even get close to tolerable until 22 and SOs, just like for every Scrapper.
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I beg to differ, /dark is by far the worst set I've tried. My willpower, regen, and fire characters were never this bad. And if it actually takes SO's to make the character playable...sheesh.
Note that I'm not disputing it gets good later. I know it does from other scrappers I've played with. I'm just making the point that from my perspective, the set blows hard at the very low levels. I'm sure once I get the self heal it will get a LOT better, but until then.....yeah.
[/ QUOTE ]Your /regen was good pre-SOs? The only thing good about it for me pre-SOs was that I wasn't sucking wind. Hell, she hit the floor more often than my *blaster* did pre-SOs. It's quite simply that your defenses aren't fully developed, and you're rushing into melee because all your attacks are melee attacks.
And if you think /dark is bad pre-SOs, don't even *bother* with /SR or a Warshade.
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I think what did it for me is that /regen gets the self heal quite a few levels earlier than /dark, so that made the character *feel* tougher. I'm sure that mathematically he wasn't, but knowing I had the ability to heal myself without relying on inspirations helped.
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My experience on DA is with a tanker, not a scrapper, but those really did the trick for me (ignoring the specific level at which to get powers).
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IMHO, the situation is pretty much the same for Dark Armor Tankers, Scrappers, and Brutes. I agree with your advice.
Thing to keep in mind, Dark Armor has no passive powers. This exaggerates the endurance concerns further. Frankly, you may aswell turn all your toggle off or slot them purely with endurance reduction until you can either get level 20 generic IOs or SOs.
For me, ANYTHING pre-level 22 sucks. Granted, I play mostly melee and disproportionately scrappers.
The survivability on my ranged characters pre level 22 is the same as they are post level 22....which is virtually non-existent.
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My experience on DA is with a tanker, not a scrapper, but those really did the trick for me (ignoring the specific level at which to get powers).
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IMHO, the situation is pretty much the same for Dark Armor Tankers, Scrappers, and Brutes. I agree with your advice.
Thing to keep in mind, Dark Armor has no passive powers. This exaggerates the endurance concerns further. Frankly, you may aswell turn all your toggle off or slot them purely with endurance reduction until you can either get level 20 generic IOs or SOs.
For me, ANYTHING pre-level 22 sucks. Granted, I play mostly melee and disproportionately scrappers.
The survivability on my ranged characters pre level 22 is the same as they are post level 22....which is virtually non-existent.
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Actually, endurance hasn't been a major issue for me. I'm used to it after recently leveling a couple of brutes. 
It was just that pretty little green bar, and how it likes to empty out rather frequently. Thanks again, I'll stick with the character.
<runs off to beat some Skulls up>
My 38 Katana/Dark scrappre is awesomesauce. If you carefully manage your AoE aura (ie, turn it off vs. 2 or less foes), endurance isn't an issue. Just make sure you slot each toggle with 1 redux, and each attack also. One of the most fun builds I've played, with a tool for virtually every situation
53 Bots/FF/Mace Mastermind | 53 NRG/FF/Electricity Defender | 50 Time/Dual Pistols/Soul Defender | 50 Demons/FF/Mace Mastermind | 51 Necro/Dark/Soul Mastermind | 50 Thugs/Time/Mace Mastermind | 50 Ice/Ice/Arctic Tanker | 50 Plant/Rad/Earth Controller | 50 Illusion/Trick Arrow Controller | 50 Gravity/Force Field Controller
Yes, I like Force Fields.
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And Death Shroud? Heh, don't get me started.
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FYI, don't give up on Death Shroud. It's potentially your most efficient and most damaging attack. It's impact is subtle but quite massive.
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And Death Shroud? Heh, don't get me started.
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FYI, don't give up on Death Shroud. It's potentially your most efficient and most damaging attack. It's impact is subtle but quite massive.
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Yep. I stopped reading his post around there.
Deathshroud is pretty much my #1 power on low level scrappers/brutes. Of course I like teams... but anyhoo, it is slotted up and turned on while embrace I usually ignore till 14 or so.
Dark doesn't have a tier-9 godmode because it is a tier-9 godmode.
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Death Shroud is an AoE attack that you don't have to interrupt your attack chain to use and that costs half as much as regular AoE attacks. You couldn't ask for a better power.
Most people seem to compare the endurance to other toggles instead of other attacks, see the small ticks of damage, and conclude that the power blows. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's an indispensable part of Dark Armor's arsenal.
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Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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I started a claws/dark last night. The character is 9 at the moment, and is nothing but pure frustration. I have to constantly pop respites or I die. It's like the dark embrace toggle isn't even doing anything. And Death Shroud? Heh, don't get me started.
I came to this forum to seek input rather than just outright delete the character and chalk it up to another bad experience. Then I found this thread saying how awesome not only dark armor, but claws/DA gets. So tell me, when does it stop sucking so horribly? I've played Doms with better survivability than what this character has so far.
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Dark Regeneration is the start of the improvements. Until then your relying on meh resistance. Death Shround is a good power, but skippable at low levels. Pre-dark regen it's just an agro magnet.
EDITED TO FIX
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Dark/Shield Build Thread
/Dark is an excellent set. Learn to manage endurance and you'll be amazed. More than anything, don't just run around with every toggle on at all times. Run the toggles you need at the time. IE; toggle on CoD fighting immobilizing enemies, toggle on Obsidian Shield when actually fighting enemies that mez/heavy Psi damage users. Try not to indiscriminately mash your way through your attack chain and blow all of your endurance. Yes, I know you're a scrapper, but hear me out here. :P
QR
Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."
I'll never understand why folks do the whole "toggle juggle" thing. The only toggle I routinely turn off is Cloak of Darkness, cause well...I like my costume On a half way decent IO build, the "toggle juggle" really isn't necessary. I run DE,OS,MC,DS,CoF,Tough,Weave, and Hover through out every fight.
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Granted, I realize this is scrappers, but my stone/dark brute is a massive end hog with an end cost in the main armors and two end costs in every attack. 3 end cost in DR, 3 end cost in CoF, etc. Still drains faster than any other toon I have at 50.
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I still do the toggle juggle. If I'm fighting something that does nothing but smashing or lethal I'll turn Murky Cloud off, since in that situation it's doing nothing but burning endurance. I do the same with Dark Embrace in the reverse situation. Just don't see the point to leaving a toggle on that isn't benefiting me at all. My BS/DA also isn't completely IOed yet, so my endurance recovery isn't quite as good as I'd like it to be at this point either.
I leave Cloak of Darkness off most of the time, I use it for ghosting more often than not anyway. Since I'm usually grabbing agro for my wife's controller or blaster being invisible isn't the best plan.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Is there any reason *not* to juggle your toggles?
If you're packing 3+End/Sec recov, then hats off, but most of us aren't. :P
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Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."
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Is there any reason *not* to juggle your toggles?
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Personal preference I suppose, but it boils down to two things for me. 1) I don't like stopping to put on toggles, I log in, turn them all on, and start killing. (OK, Yes I turn off CoF and DS when steal thing....if I remember.) 2) Toggles such as DE,MC,and OS are really cheap. For the most part,they're not really the source of your endurance woes. DS is an attack, leaving only CoF to turn off, but at 1.17 seconds, that cast time feels like an eternity at times. Heck I usually use zoning to turn it on so I don't have to wait for it.
And while it's true my DA builds typically have 3.5+ EPS, I've spoken against "toggle juggling" since before IOs. But hey, if it works for you, have it 
EDIT: OK OK< I confess, I've killed of several defenders and controllers because I forgot to turn of CoF and DS while stealthing 
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I toggle juggle to an extent. I turn on/off death shroud when it's needed or not. If I don't need it that's wasted endurance. Heck, I burn endurance just fine without high cost toggles, thank you very much. Even with well slotted stamina I still need to manage endurance.
As for being fully IO'd out? Gimme a break, I'm still getting fully enhanced after the last respec.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Is there any reason *not* to juggle your toggles?
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Personal preference I suppose, but it boils down to two things for me. 1) I don't like stopping to put on toggles, I log in, turn them all on, and start killing. (OK, Yes I turn off CoF and DS when steal thing....if I remember.) 2) Toggles such as DE,MC,and OS are really cheap. For the most part,they're not really the source of your endurance woes. DS is an attack, leaving only CoF to turn off, but at 1.17 seconds, that cast time feels like an eternity at times. Heck I usually use zoning to turn it on so I don't have to wait for it.
And while it's true my DA builds typically have 3.5+ EPS, I've spoken against "toggle juggling" since before IOs. But hey, if it works for you, have it
EDIT: OK OK< I confess, I've killed of several defenders and controllers because I forgot to turn of CoF and DS while stealthing
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I have 9 toggles and keep them on all the time and also have gotten people killed when stealthing and forgeting to turn them off.
I never shut off any of my toggles, I have a huge recovery bonus and for those long fights I just hit conserve power and boom problem solved.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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I came to this forum to seek input rather than just outright delete the character and chalk it up to another bad experience. Then I found this thread saying how awesome not only dark armor, but claws/DA gets. So tell me, when does it stop sucking so horribly? I've played Doms with better survivability so far.
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You only got to level 9 and you're complaining about lacking survivability? It won't even get close to tolerable until 22 and SOs, just like for every Scrapper.
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I beg to differ, /dark is by far the worst set I've tried. My willpower, regen, and fire characters were never this bad. And if it actually takes SO's to make the character playable...sheesh.
Note that I'm not disputing it gets good later. I know it does from other scrappers I've played with. I'm just making the point that from my perspective, the set blows hard at the very low levels. I'm sure once I get the self heal it will get a LOT better, but until then.....yeah.
[/ QUOTE ]Your /regen was good pre-SOs? The only thing good about it for me pre-SOs was that I wasn't sucking wind. Hell, she hit the floor more often than my *blaster* did pre-SOs. It's quite simply that your defenses aren't fully developed, and you're rushing into melee because all your attacks are melee attacks.
And if you think /dark is bad pre-SOs, don't even *bother* with /SR or a Warshade.
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I did not even turn on my toggles on my dm/sr when I leveled him I just took a few dirt naps and kept moving along like my other scrappers
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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Dark doesn't have a tier-9 godmode because it is a tier-9 godmode.
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Dark regen has as much or more effect on survivability than typical tier 9.
Dark gets their Teir 9 at 16, unlike regen who have to wait until 28...
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^^ I know. I've had to tank the Clockwork King during synapse TF's because the tank was an invuln and died close to instantly vs the psi damage AV. Watching arrogant invuln tanks fighting psi enemies is always amusing to me. They usually claim nothing can hurt them, and then they end up taking a dirt nap or ten.
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Hi! I'm an arrogant Invuln tank.
No, I'm not posting to flame your comment. I'm posting to thank you for pointing out the obvious to all the other Invuln tanks. There's a reason I take out enemies with Psi powers first. Not second, not fifth, but first. It's because they scare me.
And yes, I have tanked the clockwork king effectively. How? It's easy. You get the /Dark Scrapper to take the aggro, turn off your toggles, stop taunting, and attack really really slowly.
Or make a dark/ tank 
Love my dark/ss tank, only thing that hurts is when haste and rage crash at the same time. Poor endurance bar lol
/Dark by any means does not suck
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Or make a dark/ tank
Love my dark/ss tank, only thing that hurts is when haste and rage crash at the same time. Poor endurance bar lol
/Dark by any means does not suck
[/ QUOTE ]Or when rage crashes right after you use Dark Regen. Oww...
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Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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I started a claws/dark last night. The character is 9 at the moment, and is nothing but pure frustration. I have to constantly pop respites or I die. It's like the dark embrace toggle isn't even doing anything. And Death Shroud? Heh, don't get me started.
I came to this forum to seek input rather than just outright delete the character and chalk it up to another bad experience. Then I found this thread saying how awesome not only dark armor, but claws/DA gets. So tell me, when does it stop sucking so horribly? I've played Doms with better survivability than what this character has so far.
[/ QUOTE ]Welcome to pre-22 on every single scrapper, tank, brute, and stalker ever. Until you get to SOs, your defensive powers aren't running at full effectiveness.
Some tips to get you there:
<ul type="square">[*]Know that until you get to *at least* DOs, your defenses are still paperthin.[*]Set yourself up to have Stamina at 20, Dark Regeneration at 16, and Obsidian Shield at 10. Murky Cloud can be put off for a while unless you plan to do a Synapse TF, or like fighting clocks.[*]Use DR sparingly until you get it at least three-slotted with Acc/End/End SOs (or equivalent IO slotting)[/list]
My experience on DA is with a tanker, not a scrapper, but those really did the trick for me (ignoring the specific level at which to get powers).
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Thank you for the tips. That's pretty much the power selection strategy I had in mind anyway, so I'm glad to know I'm at least doing something right with the character.