On a /fire armor brute? I don't think there are a lot of + resistance bonuses out there on sets, so I'd just slot for resistance IOs and focus on + rech and + hps; faster rech = more likely healing flames will be up, which is a cornerstone to that set. And added hps buys you time still for healing flames to pop up again.
Mind you that I don't play a fire armor brute but that's what I would shoot for. Then add tough for a little more breathing room and you can focus on regen as an afterthought. You can prob squeeze a decent amount of +regen in regardless. REgen is the second bonus in a set and there are +10%, +12% and +16% (purples) you can assemble, on top of the regen and regen/ recovery uniques. Without trying you could prob get in 200% easy along with the rech and hps.
Fire is a popular secondary so I'm sure you'll get some more opinions.
For /Fire, I'd shoot for recharge then HP. Healing Flames being charged will be a lot more helpful. Granted +regen is always good on a melee toon, but you're no willpower or regen. Tough is also good to grab, then again I shove tough into all my melee toons.
Thx a lot for the input guys...gonna relook Mids and work on it.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
Don't listen to the people touting recharge as ideal. Both recharge and regneration have steep diminishing returns. It's best to strike a balance between these two attributes to maximize your survivability.
Example:
<ul type="square">[*]Healing Flames with 100% recharge reduction: 40/2=20 seconds.[*]Healing Flames with 200% recharge reduction:40/3=13.3 seconds.[*]Healing Flames with 300% recharge reduction:40/4=10 seconds.[/list]
As you can see, the first 100% recharge reduction nets 20 seconds of increased recharge. The next 100% yields just 6.7 seconds, and it gets worse from there with 3.3 seconds of reduction for the next 100%.
The same mechanic governs regeneration. Try to hit 200% regeneration and 30-40% global recharge (+70% from hasten). This will bring Healing Flames to near 13 seconds of recharge while hasten is up (95% socketed, 70% hasten, 30-40% global).
+HP is solid and synergizes well with resistance, regen, and heals. It's also often available in conjunction with +regeneration.
Thx Julius...
Not wanting to go crazy with money on this PvE build, so I'm currently sitting at:
+47.5% Global Recharge (have Hasten also)
+191.2 HP
+400% Regen
51.1% Resistance S/L
25-40% Resistance on the others minus Psi/Tox
According to Mids, Healing Flames is up every 16secs at this point. With everyones advice, I'm gonna give this a shot and see how it works out. Thax again all.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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Don't listen to the people touting recharge as ideal. Both recharge and regneration have steep diminishing returns. It's best to strike a balance between these two attributes to maximize your survivability.
Example:
<ul type="square">[*]Healing Flames with 100% recharge reduction: 40/2=20 seconds.[*]Healing Flames with 200% recharge reduction:40/3=13.3 seconds.[*]Healing Flames with 300% recharge reduction:40/4=10 seconds.[/list]
As you can see, the first 100% recharge reduction nets 20 seconds of increased recharge. The next 100% yields just 6.7 seconds, and it gets worse from there with 3.3 seconds of reduction for the next 100%. (*)
The same mechanic governs regeneration. (**) Try to hit 200% regeneration and 30-40% global recharge (+70% from hasten). This will bring Healing Flames to near 13 seconds of recharge while hasten is up (95% socketed, 70% hasten, 30-40% global).
+HP is solid and synergizes well with resistance, regen, and heals. (***) It's also often available in conjunction with +regeneration.
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A couple counter points:
(*) Healing Flame heals ~374.8 hp base, or ~730.9 hp slotted.
<ul type="square">[*]40s rech = 18.27 hp/sec[*]20s rech = 36.545 hp/sec[*]13.3s rech = 54.95 hp/sec[*]10s rech = 73.09 hp/sec[/list]
Notice the first 20s shaved off the recharge (40s->20s) doubled it's effectiveness. The last 10s shaved off (20s->10s) is a smaller number, yes, but it still doubled the healing throughput. There is one wrinkle - activation time. It basically acts as unenhanceable recharge, so the lower the recharge gets, the more it dilutes the recharge. Still, the basic principle you were arguing is flawed.
(**) Regeneration has no diminishing returns, for the same reasons as above. Yes, additional regen doesn't give as big jumps in time to heal to full, but the hp/sec regenerated stays constant.
RegenTime = 240 / Regen
<ul type="square">[*]With 100% regen, it takes 240s to go from 0 to full; or 0.4167% hp/sec[*]With 200%, it takes 120s; or 0.8333% hp/sec [*]With 300% it takes 80s; or 1.25% hp/sec, [*]With 400% it takes 60s; or 1.6667% hp/sec[/list]
Notice each 100% regen boost increased the hp/sec regenerated by 0.4167% hp/sec.
(***) Increasing Max HP does not improve heals - they're based off your base hp.
Note: You may be correct that a mix of the two yields the best survivability boost, I haven't tried to calculate that. I'm only addressing the misconception on how +rech (for heals) and +regen scale.
Sometimes I really wished that I paid more attention to math in school...sometimes.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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Trying this with a different title...
Redoing an old Fire Brute and wanted to know if building for +regeneration is viable. Looking at approximately 350% on regeneration bonus currently, but should I focus on +hps/+resistances instead?
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I'd suggest looking at melee defense bonuses. Obviously, you want decent recharge for HF, and HP will provide a good boost to survivability - but defense can be easily stacked to ~30% or higher, and it makes a *huge* difference in survivability, solo or teamed*.
*Uber def-debuffing mobs like Cims. excepted.
I find that +hp and +regen on a Res based set actually works pretty well...
Look at it this way:
You take less damage, with more HP while taking less damage, and what little HP is removed from your Health Bar comes back even quicker.
The best part is that its consistant, no cascading failure 
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I find that +hp and +regen on a Res based set actually works pretty well...
Look at it this way:
You take less damage, with more HP while taking less damage, and what little HP is removed from your Health Bar comes back even quicker.
The best part is that its consistant, no cascading failure
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True, but... building for/stacking defense offers much higher survivability (in most situations) than stacking HP/Regen (for a Res based character with no native defense or +hp). When you face large groups res+hp/regen will die much faster than res+def (assuming sufficient def, etc).
I'm arguing this because I have a Fire/Fire tank and a SS/DA brute both with ~30% melee def. Both are Res/Heal based with no native +hp or defense (except CoD). My experience has been that stacking defense provides much greater survivability teamed or solo in the vast majority of content. I should also point out that common def debuffs are not as big a detriment to this build as some people believe - they tend to be very short in duration, and only cause serious problems if *every* attack hitting me has significant -def (e.g. Cims.).
Obviously I haven't done the math, but it would be possible to do a survivability comparison. Given my experiences I'm pretty sure defense would come out ahead (for characters of this type, in most situations etc).
the problem is , def bonuses have no -def debuff res, making a few baddie sthat have "burst" (the MAJORITY do...) into the anti-you after like 2 hits.
Where as significant amounts of hp/rgn/res can shrug it off, then recover after the battle quickly.
You dont need to be 100% hp AT ALL TIMES to survive, you can easily make it hoverign around 80%, seeing as it wont drop too much unless you did somethign silly :P
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the problem is , def bonuses have no -def debuff res, making a few baddie sthat have "burst" (the MAJORITY do...) into the anti-you after like 2 hits.
Where as significant amounts of hp/rgn/res can shrug it off, then recover after the battle quickly.
You dont need to be 100% hp AT ALL TIMES to survive, you can easily make it hoverign around 80%, seeing as it wont drop too much unless you did somethign silly :P
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This is why I said:
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I should also point out that common def debuffs are not as big a detriment to this build as some people believe - they tend to be very short in duration, and only cause serious problems if *every* attack hitting me has significant -def (e.g. Cims.).
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You and others have made this point, but it doesn't work out in practice.
Whether it's short debuff duration or most mobs closing for melee brawls or a combination of factors, I can say that in practical game play a couple mobs with slug won't destroy the effectiveness of stacked defense as you imply. I monitor my melee defense stat on-screen as I play; it does yo-yo a bit, but generally stays high versus common enemies.
hmn, another thing to look at is: what do you sacrifice to get high Def to all positions? (or even just 2?)
Generally, sets with Hp/Regen bonus usally come with goodies such as Rech and Acc (or Dam, but thats meh on a brute).
From what Ive seen the ones with +def usually come with mediocre bonuses like run speed or small recovery buffs.
On top of that, they come almost always in the LAST tier of the recipe, while regen can come as early as 1-3, making it easily franken-slottable with other bonuses, and easier to build for overall...
In the end it seems to be a bit of a balance:
Hp/regen/etc is easier to build for, and allows a bit more room for other bonuses, yet yields comparativley less survivability than building for +def?
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Sometimes I really wished that I paid more attention to math in school...sometimes.
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math is over-rated. SMASH! is better
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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Sometimes I really wished that I paid more attention to math in school...sometimes.
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math is over-rated. SMASH! is better
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lol...
but brutes that know the math, tend to smash moar betterer. The game mechanics doesn't
really recognize the dumb "Hulk smash!" type toons
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
<<<Flunked math and ha a 50 ss/invuln (Eeewwwww invuln with weave and CJ) who rarely dies even on ITF, but has to have a tray full of blue pills because my endurance is invulnerable to endurance fixes with weave and cj running...And who is my farmer/Pler for my VG. Only time I die is when I run out of blue pills...
I hate all this terrorist business. I used to love the days when you could look at an unattended bag on a train or bus and think to yourself.... I'm going to take that.
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In the end it seems to be a bit of a balance:
Hp/regen/etc is easier to build for, and allows a bit more room for other bonuses, yet yields comparativley less survivability than building for +def?
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On this at least, we agree.
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In the end it seems to be a bit of a balance:
Hp/regen/etc is easier to build for, and allows a bit more room for other bonuses, yet yields comparativley less survivability than building for +def?
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On this at least, we agree.
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think we should do a bit of reearch to see what path gives up/gains for going each way?
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<<<Flunked math and ha a 50 ss/invuln (Eeewwwww invuln with weave and CJ) who rarely dies even on ITF, but has to have a tray full of blue pills because my endurance is invulnerable to endurance fixes with weave and cj running...And who is my farmer/Pler for my VG. Only time I die is when I run out of blue pills...
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OMG CJ?!?!? DRRAAAAIN...
Trying this with a different title...
Redoing an old Fire Brute and wanted to know if building for +regeneration is viable. Looking at approximately 350% on regeneration bonus currently, but should I focus on +hps/+resistances instead?
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-