Where's the "glory" of Moment of Glory?!

Shortening the recharge to 240 seconds base was a cool move and I love the lack of crash and the fact that it doesn't rob anyone of HP to use it, but what good does a 15 second duration do for a tier 9 defensive? I could easily understand a 30 second duration with a 480 second recharge, but 15 seconds?! What is this supposed to be, a defensive version of Build Up? With Build Up, you activate it before your going to use the attacks that you want most to enhance, but what about MoG? Are you supposed to try to plan out when your enemy is going to take the big shots you really don't want to get hit by? The only good application I can think of for that would be absorbing the Alpha. Is THAT what they wanted to do with it? A buddy of mine tried to make it a perma-power, but he said it wouldn't auto activate for him. Realistically I don't see the appeal of a 15 second buff that requires me to stop EVERYTHING I'm doing for 2.57 seconds, leaving me with only 12.43 seconds until I have to stop again anyway. So even a perma version would be impractical.

On the other-hand, if the idea is to make it an alpha-immunity power, then I do have to applaude the Devs on their efforts to diversify the uniqueness of each Tier 9 defensive power. Aside from that, I'll definitely say that if there was any defensive power set that could afford to take on such a Tier 9 short changing and survive, Regen would be it.

Well, I guess what I'm really posting for is that I'm looking for anything I might be over-looking. Does anyone have any useful suggestions for how to use MoG I might not have yet considered or anymore USEFUL (I stress that for a reason, as in "FULL OF PRACTICAL USE AND APPLICATION" or "VIABLY PRODUCTIVE") thoughts to consider on the subject? I would especially LOVE to see any posts or discussions that involved the Devs expressing their purposes on the redesign.

Note: And yes, I do realize that Paragon Wiki lists that this version of MoG has been in place since Issue 11, but I've just found out about it and can't seem to find anything on the forums in regards to it.
Second Note: Player Questions was the best single location I could think of for this post as the other option would be identical posts on both Scrappers AND Stalkers or one or the other.

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More to kill here. -- Kicks N Giggles(Arch/Elect Blaster)
Arrest not kill -- Anonymous
Funny thing, I seem to have left my handcuff arrow in my other pants. I DO have plenty of pointy sticks though... -- KNG

You've pretty much got it. MoG is now pretty much an Alpha-Soaker. And that's exactly what /regens need to round out their survivability.

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It was obviously intended to fill in regen's only hole: the ability to take an alpha strike. The new MoG is wonderful.

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I think its exactly what you said, an Alpha absorbing power, for a set where burst damage is the real killer.

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Always remember, we were Heroes.

All 9th row defensive powers are meant to be situational. They are good for taking alpha strikes and surviving that big AV attack, which you can usually predict. They're not meant to be used for every fight with every group of chumpy minions that have no chance of doing anything to you while they are on.

I know that's how the Paragon Protectors use them, but that's not really how they are meant to be used.

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On the contrary, Paragon Protectors do use them for "the big AV fight". Players are the big AVs as far as NPCs are concerned.

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I team with the Repeat Offenders.

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Aside from that, I'll definitely say that if there was any defensive power set that could afford to take on such a Tier 9 short changing and survive, Regen would be it.

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Hooooooo boy, if you think the current version of MoG is shortchanging the set...

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What is this supposed to be, a defensive version of Build Up?

[/ QUOTE ]Actually, yes. It is.

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Are you supposed to try to plan out when your enemy is going to take the big shots you really don't want to get hit by?

[/ QUOTE ]NPCs are dumb, and with few exceptions (ie: AVs with nukes), will use their strongest attacks on you first, like when you first engage them.

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The only good application I can think of for that would be absorbing the Alpha. Is THAT what they wanted to do with it?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. The alpha strike is the moment when Regen is weakest; MoG helps to protect you.

Re: Where's the "glory" of Moment of Glory?!
The Glory is the fact that your defense is capped and your resistance nearly so. The 15s duration makes it a Moment of Glory.

Edit: The previous version of MoG actually did very little for a Regen's survivability against non-Psionic damage, and was the equivalent of a -300% resistance debuff against Psionic.

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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

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Aside from that, I'll definitely say that if there was any defensive power set that could afford to take on such a Tier 9 short changing and survive, Regen would be it.

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Hooooooo boy, if you think the current version of MoG is shortchanging the set...

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Ok, I'm intrigued. What is it that you're not saying?

I know that the original version robbed the character of almost all HP, turned off the character's regeneration based powers and left them with nothing but defense and resistance to keep them alive, and finally ended with the standard crash PLUS the fact that the character's HP is still bottomed out which seems to total up to the ultimate in inappropriately mismatched power to powerset flop. (not to mention anti-climactic seeing as how one would think that the entire point of the Regeneration set IS TO REGENERATE) But is there something else that your inferring or does that about sum it up?

Also, Blackavaar, how are you able to "usually predict" the "big AV attack"? That would definitely be useful, but it seems to me that the only way to do so would be to familiarize yourself haevily with that particular AV.

Also, Does anyone have anything to say in regards to MoG's PVP application? I know, I know, I used the unspoken four letter word, but I would like to know if it as utterly useless as I'm guessing it is against the typically less predictable player to player confrontations.

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More to kill here. -- Kicks N Giggles(Arch/Elect Blaster)
Arrest not kill -- Anonymous
Funny thing, I seem to have left my handcuff arrow in my other pants. I DO have plenty of pointy sticks though... -- KNG

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Also, Blackavaar, how are you able to "usually predict" the "big AV attack"? That would definitely be useful, but it seems to me that the only way to do so would be to familiarize yourself haevily with that particular AV.

[/ QUOTE ]Critters queue up their biggest attacks first. Big ranged attacks first (if applicable), then biggest melee attacks once they close in to melee. That's how you know.

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Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com

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Aside from that, I'll definitely say that if there was any defensive power set that could afford to take on such a Tier 9 short changing and survive, Regen would be it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hooooooo boy, if you think the current version of MoG is shortchanging the set...

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, I'm intrigued. What is it that you're not saying?

I know that the original version robbed the character of almost all HP, turned off the character's regeneration based powers and left them with nothing but defense and resistance to keep them alive, and finally ended with the standard crash PLUS the fact that the character's HP is still bottomed out which seems to total up to the ultimate in inappropriately mismatched power to powerset flop. (not to mention anti-climactic seeing as how one would think that the entire point of the Regeneration set IS TO REGENERATE) But is there something else that your inferring or does that about sum it up?

[/ QUOTE ]That sums it up, but that's just the symptoms of the disease. The net result of all of that is that the old MoG does almost nothing in most situations, and as I said in my post, is the equivalent of -300% psi resistance.

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Also, Blackavaar, how are you able to "usually predict" the "big AV attack"? That would definitely be useful, but it seems to me that the only way to do so would be to familiarize yourself haevily with that particular AV.

[/ QUOTE ]All NPCs will try to use their biggest attack at the start of battle if they can. AVs with nukes are specifically prevented from using the nuke until they're at 50% or 25% hp.

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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

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The 15s duration makes it a Moment of Glory.


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LMBO. You know, I'd never quite thought of that Fleeting_Whisper!

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More to kill here. -- Kicks N Giggles(Arch/Elect Blaster)
Arrest not kill -- Anonymous
Funny thing, I seem to have left my handcuff arrow in my other pants. I DO have plenty of pointy sticks though... -- KNG

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Also, Blackavaar, how are you able to "usually predict" the "big AV attack"? That would definitely be useful, but it seems to me that the only way to do so would be to familiarize yourself heavily with that particular AV.

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Actually all you have to do is watch them fight someone else for about 3-5 minutes. NPCs generally attack in the same pattern over and over again. If you familiarize yourself with their pattern, you can predict when they are going to use the big attack by watching for the attacks that precede it.

You can actually do the same thing with a lot of PvP players when they become too stuck on their attack chain.

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You can actually do the same thing with a lot of PvP players when they become too stuck on their attack chain.



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Bad Stalker: *Placate* *Build Up*
Me: *Phase*

They went through their whole attack chain, I dropped out of phase and hit them with Infrigidate, Benumb, and Heat Loss.

Ooh, lookit the tiny little dots on their power tray...

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Also, Does anyone have anything to say in regards to MoG's PVP application?

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Scenario: Green turns yellow. Yellow turns red. You mash Dull Pain. Red turns yellow. You mash Reconstruction. Yellow turns green. Green turns yellow. Yellow turns red. You mash Reconstruction. Reconstruction does nothing. You mash Moment of Glory. You laugh for 10 seconds. You mash Reconstruction. Reconstruction works! I would have thrown an "obviously" in there again, but that would just be mean.

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"Moment of Glory" is that scene in a fighting anime series like 'Bleach', 'Dragonball Z', 'Yu Yu Hakusho', etc. where one side unleashes some horrible instant kill/total annihilation attack that hits the target with a massive sky rending explosion. The smoke clears only to reveal that the target not only survived but is only slightly singed, hair mussed with a little blood out of the corner of their mouth.

THAT is "Moment of Glory".

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Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
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Tempus unum hominem manet

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"Moment of Glory" is that scene in a fighting anime series like 'Bleach', 'Dragonball Z', 'Yu Yu Hakusho', etc. where one side unleashes some horrible instant kill/total annihilation attack that hits the target with a massive sky rending explosion. The smoke clears only to reveal that the target not only survived but is only slightly singed, hair mussed with a little blood out of the corner of their mouth.

THAT is "Moment of Glory".

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I'm pretty sure superhero comics did stuff like that first.

But yeah, that about sums it up.

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I know that the original version robbed the character of almost all HP, turned off the character's regeneration based powers and left them with nothing but defense and resistance to keep them alive, and finally ended with the standard crash PLUS the fact that the character's HP is still bottomed out which seems to total up to the ultimate in inappropriately mismatched power to powerset flop

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You forgot to add in that it kills all regenerative capability while it was active.

The original version had two crashes: the primary was when you use it. It removed all buffs in the regen pool (passive, toggle and click), Put your HP to single digits, and put a regen debuff that kills ANY chance of natural health restoration (so even having health from the fitness PP was not enough) To offset it, your defense and damage resist was near maxed out, with the exception of Psionic, so you could survive the incoming blows. (hopefully)

The second crash occurs when the power ended, and that was an endurance crash. Your regen ability and passives were restored, but with no endurance, the toggles and click powers were still off limits, leaving you extremely vulnerable, as the passives just couldn't recover your health or stamina fast enough for a front line fighter.

Suffice to say, with the old one, the time to use it was to ensure that there would be no enemies near you when the second crash occured, whether to defeat the enemy, or to escape them. (with a scrapper? HA!) Neither situation was really beneficial, so it was most often used to panic the defenders and controllers in the group and start mass heals on the scrapper. As such it got tweaked to the current form, where it serves a much better use.

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Uh... I see why you would think that I missed that part, LordLundar, but reread your own quote and pay attention to the "turned off the character's regeneration based powers and left them with nothing but defense and resistance to keep them alive" part in particular. Admittedly I probably should have left out the based powers part to simplify and more directly clarify that base HP regen was included.

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Neither situation was really beneficial, so it was most often used to panic the defenders and controllers in the group and start mass heals on the scrapper. As such it got tweaked to the current form, where it serves a much better use.

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Yeah, I remember being warned about this one by other Empaths of the time. If memory serves, weren't all of those frantic heals wasted anyway because they could never restore any HP while MoG was up? I seem to recall a lot of "healers" complaining about that and encouraging me to keep an eye on teammates' active powers while doling out the heals. SO glad I never ran into someone using MoG pre-Issue 11!

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More to kill here. -- Kicks N Giggles(Arch/Elect Blaster)
Arrest not kill -- Anonymous
Funny thing, I seem to have left my handcuff arrow in my other pants. I DO have plenty of pointy sticks though... -- KNG

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Uh... I see why you would think that I missed that part, LordLundar, but reread your own quote and pay attention to the "turned off the character's regeneration based powers and left them with nothing but defense and resistance to keep them alive" part in particular. Admittedly I probably should have left out the based powers part to simplify and more directly clarify that base HP regen was included.

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Neither situation was really beneficial, so it was most often used to panic the defenders and controllers in the group and start mass heals on the scrapper. As such it got tweaked to the current form, where it serves a much better use.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I remember being warned about this one by other Empaths of the time. If memory serves, weren't all of those frantic heals wasted anyway because they could never restore any HP while MoG was up? I seem to recall a lot of "healers" complaining about that and encouraging me to keep an eye on teammates' active powers while doling out the heals. SO glad I never ran into someone using MoG pre-Issue 11!

[/ QUOTE ]Yup, it gave -10000% regen, and -10000% heal, or something ridiculous like that, so even Adrenalin Boost and RA couldn't overcome it.

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