LHF has posted a position, and rather well I think. Unfortunately, I am sure that his thread will devolve into a big flame war between those who agree with that position, and the response we have already seen:
The gist of that response, as articulated by one poster, is, "I don't care about your opinion, and I don't think most other people do either."
That response seems to encapsulate to some degree the position of the powers that be on this whole issue, or at least what their position appears to be to many who are involved in this whole big mess. I think that alone is the bases for much of the frustration.
Lets start from the beginning
my position is this: I dont want people to leave. The only reason I play this game is because of the community. The more people who are here, the more fun the game is for me. I would hope most players agree with this. I am sure the Devs do also.
At the basic level, I agree that the Devs must do something about the farming. Not because I care what someone else wants to do with their time to have fun, but quite simply because it had all gotten too easy, and I agree with that article someone posted: if things come too easily, people will soon get bored and leave.
The problem is that the current response seems to have gone a bit too far. It most certainly wasnt communicated very well. The overall feel is that they just dont care. That is the root of the problem for many, I think. And while many people might not care, there are some who are leaving, and there are others who are upset. Although they might not be a majority or even a large minority
they are a large enough group that I care. As with any action that affects the number of people paying the game, we should all care.
The goal of any developer corrective action should always be to accomplish their goal while alienating the fewest number. With that in mind, I am not sure this whole thing was handled very well.
However, I am smart enough to know that when I post my opinions on this subject, some people will get mad. Others will flame. In some ways, this is good. I would rather know that people still care enough about this game to get passionately angry about it! Unfortunately, the inevitable flames that break out are probably enough of a reason for most of the posts on this subject to get deleted.
When those threads get deleted, it makes those who are passionate about the issue even MORE upset. It validates what they are feeling
that the Devs just dont care.
The irony with all of this is that usually our Devs are fairly open about discussing their actions with us. They solicit player opinions, they hold open beta, they respond to and react to feedback that they receive. Our Devs DO care. But, because the response the Devs chose to deal with this whole issue, that being GM action, is specifically barred by forum rules from discussion, the feelings of those who are upset are being made worse.
Anyway, I highly recommend that you post your opinions on this subject, good or bad, in this feedback thread : Positron's 'Abusing Mission Architect' thread.
Well said Kat but um both that thread and the follow up got pruned and locked. Still very nice post.
Ah, good point. Well, that makes the majority of my post more true. I had origonally ended with a paragraph about how the deleting and locking of threads was making the problem worse, because people needed a place to blow off steam on this issue and to feel like they are being heard. I thought it was such a good idea that I went to check to make sure their wasn't already a thread like that. I guess I should have checked to see if it was locked. 
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LHF has posted a position, and rather well I think. Unfortunately, I am sure that his thread will devolve into a big flame war between those who agree with that position, and the response we have already seen:
The gist of that response, as articulated by one poster, is, "I don't care about your opinion, and I don't think most other people do either."
That response seems to encapsulate to some degree the position of the powers that be on this whole issue, or at least what their position appears to be to many who are involved in this whole big mess. I think that alone is the bases for much of the frustration.
Lets start from the beginning
my position is this: I dont want people to leave. The only reason I play this game is because of the community. The more people who are here, the more fun the game is for me. I would hope most players agree with this. I am sure the Devs do also.
At the basic level, I agree that the Devs must do something about the farming. Not because I care what someone else wants to do with their time to have fun, but quite simply because it had all gotten too easy, and I agree with that article someone posted: if things come too easily, people will soon get bored and leave.
The problem is that the current response seems to have gone a bit too far. It most certainly wasnt communicated very well. The overall feel is that they just dont care. That is the root of the problem for many, I think. And while many people might not care, there are some who are leaving, and there are others who are upset. Although they might not be a majority or even a large minority
they are a large enough group that I care. As with any action that affects the number of people paying the game, we should all care.
The goal of any developer corrective action should always be to accomplish their goal while alienating the fewest number. With that in mind, I am not sure this whole thing was handled very well.
However, I am smart enough to know that when I post my opinions on this subject, some people will get mad. Others will flame. In some ways, this is good. I would rather know that people still care enough about this game to get passionately angry about it! Unfortunately, the inevitable flames that break out are probably enough of a reason for most of the posts on this subject to get deleted.
When those threads get deleted, it makes those who are passionate about the issue even MORE upset. It validates what they are feeling
that the Devs just dont care.
The irony with all of this is that usually our Devs are fairly open about discussing their actions with us. They solicit player opinions, they hold open beta, they respond to and react to feedback that they receive. Our Devs DO care. But, because the response the Devs chose to deal with this whole issue, that being GM action, is specifically barred by forum rules from discussion, the feelings of those who are upset are being made worse.
Anyway, I highly recommend that you post your opinions on this subject, good or bad, in this feedback thread : Positron's 'Abusing Mission Architect' thread.
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Just to clarify again I don't not care. I violently disagree. I do however think almost nobody else cares.
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
Truefully, I did care when all this whole mess started, but the more I see discussion about it, the more Im starting not to care about it anymore.
[IMG]http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee63/Abraxxus-CoH/brax3.png[/IMG]
Justice Server
Global: @Abraxxus
I've promised someone that I won't go into much more detail on the subject; however, I did want to briefly commend Liv and Kat on their fantastic posts. Well said and I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments.
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Ignicity has kind of gotten on people's nerves with the constant posting of the issue, and perhaps some of the arguments he's had in the past on other issues... but I promised him that if he could convince me that what he was saying was right that I'd support him, and he has, and I am.
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You are quite right.
That player is on my nerves so much that I put him on ignore so that I didn't have to hear what he had to say any more.
Thank you for speaking for him so that I have to listen to him after I put him on ignore.
I guess that means that I have to put you on ignore as well.
Bye.
Alty I know you to be a nice person and a friend of Smurphys did you try to look past anything about Iggy and read what LHF wrote? Have you poked your head into Smurphys thread on the Market section which he started when i told him what was going on? If so then ignore what i say and continue on I just hate to see someone blindly ignore another based on him referencing someone you have on ignore (probably allot of people have on ignore).
Bye. Don't come back now, ya hear?
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
If you think he gives two [censored] you're kidding yourself.
If a person you have on ignore for making an [censored] of himself makes a good point, and that point is shared through someone else, why should that bother anyone?
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
LOOK AT ME!
Support the Mentor Project - http://tinyurl.com/citymentorproject
[JFA2010]Mod08: And I will strike down upon thee (enrious) with great vengence and .... oh wait wrong script
@enrious, @sardonicism, @MyLexiConIsHugeSon
If you haven't joined a global channel, you're not really looking for team.
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LOOK AT ME!
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*Looks*
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I dont want people to leave. The only reason I play this game is because of the community. The more people who are here, the more fun the game is for me.
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Kat speaks for me.
Done.
I'm really tired of the garbage.
Bye, Flea.
I've never had issues with you that moved me to put you on ignore, but if you can't understand why I would want to put someone on ignore....like I said - bye.
There are many posters in this thread that I already have on ignore that I won't be responding to. I don't know if I've ignored 50 people on the forums yet, but I'd say over the years - I think I've gotten up to at least 25.
All-in-all, that is a very small number of players - far less than I have put on gignore in the game - but then again - there are far less players here.
I'll be on the forums, but I am actively weeding out the garbage that I don't want to have to deal with - unfortunately, that means using the ignore function so that I don't have to get frustrated or upset about garbage that I don't want to see.
You know - the DEVs are doing this too.
So if you want to be heard by the DEVs - at all - I'd reign in some of the garbage.
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LOOK AT ME!
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What are we looking for?
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
As a long time listener first time caller, I feel that indeed the grand sweeping effort to "cleanse" the game after this issue which is no small problem to the game was over the top. The first rule people should remember about humans is that we will find and break your stuff. Sometimes it is completely accidental. Other times we wanna see what she can do.
People who were hit by the hammer-of-the-modsquad erroneously should be doctored by those that hit them. It will affect the community on each server and each sub-level of those communities. Locking the missions is nothing terrible and should happen for the ones that are deemed exploitable.
Too often doom is cried and I think that people leaving who feel wronged are justified in doing so. That is really the only voice consumers have to get the attention of businesses. With doom called at every new issue with changes to anything it tends to exasperate the people reading the posts that sometimes they will blow some off as whining and accept others as factual. Vocal minority or silent majority, when players leave MMO's lose.
Hopefully a mutually beneficial resolution can be achieved and maybe the CS team will extend an olive branch to those who claimed and are proven to be wronged.
To those I have teamed and played with that are leaving or have left, I wish you well and hope to maybe catch up on another MMO someday. To those I haven't had the pleasure , I am sorry to see you leave before we could exchange bad puns and lame jokes.
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Lets start from the beginning
my position is this: I dont want people to leave. The only reason I play this game is because of the community. The more people who are here, the more fun the game is for me. I would hope most players agree with this. I am sure the Devs do also.
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I agree with Kat that I don't want people to leave. I have been playing this game for the last 5 years and the major reason I am still here is the Justice community. I have met many people on Justice that I would consider as my friends and had the pleasure of meeting some of you in real life.
I am sad that are people are leaving and I understand your reason. I can only wish you best of luck and I will still be here if you ever decide to come back.
I've been watching this issue by proxy - via TA - as my physical world life is um..... consuming seems like a nice enough word for total train-wreck, doesn't it?
KAT!!! GIRL!! Don't think I've ever seen you post so much and say it so well before!
I have years under my (spandex, shiny, magic and super-powered) belt in the realms of business coaching, so some issues really bring me out of the forum back-room where I am watching you through a one-way mirror, usually laughing and enjoying this phenomenal community.
When it comes to a consumer-based product that relies on a community and the development and sustenance of an online product, general market wisdom is a bit slow. We have centuries of experience in trading money or goods for other monies, goods or services, but the virtual community is a relatively new phenomena with a galaxy of unanticipated blackholes and unidentified phenomena. Star Trek got nuttin on where we are all going ........
The basis of a business is profit. Some businesses got ethics, some don't (grammatical terrorism is deliberate in this post, please forgive) .... and when we were dealing, as a culture, with the simple exchange of services or goods, our performance or product dictated our success, give or take.
Online gaming and communities have opened up a whole universe of human characteristics and emotions over the last decade or so. 'Normal' business practices can no longer apply. This is no longer simply an issue of creating and maintaining a client base, client loyalty, customer retention and product placement. We have created a universe of intimacy - and it is my assertion that few businesses are actually qualified to deal with it.
COH is the first and only mmporg I have ever been involved with. I did not grow up with many of the games etc that a lot of you did. I got into COH verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry reluctantly because my daughters were invited into it by their daddy, and I am a very protective momma.
For those of you who have been involved with virtual life on many levels, sometimes it's hard to see how we got here. How we get so involved and passionate about things.
..... but then ..... the drawback ...
It is so easy to just walk away. I'm not saying it's easy to walk away from an emotional point of view, I'm saying it's easy from a literal point of view. Just cancel your account. Just watch TV or go help old people rather than play the game or log into the forums.
We are not emotionally structured to cope with the kind of complete abandonment that the internet offers. We are not mentally or emotionally evolved in a way that is ready to cope with the connectiond we make online and then lose them so easily.
COH is precariously balanced between the desire to create community, loyalty and customer retention (which this forum propogates and nurtures) and run an effective business. It is very possible that despite all their best efforts, they are incapable of knowing the emotions and reactions that their various business decisions and strategies will incur. They want the intimacy, the feedback and the customer base, but they also want to run the business as well as they can.
What I know is that in a customer based business, customer satisfaction is all there is. A certain amount of dissatisfaction is inevitable. I hope they have someone in there who knows how to run stats on the reactions they incur.
As Kat said, I play the game for the people. The game itself really doesn't mean much to me. On the days I can't be with TA, I get to play with him online and that is enormous comfort and fun for me as that is how we met and fell in love. I love the friends that i have made and invested many hours in. I have been told that I saved a child's life because I was playing with a young mum who had an important medical question for me. When I told her to call 911 IMMEDIATELY, while I was ingame with her, she found out that her daughter could have died.
It's hard to imagine that the developers of this game could have anticipated that two people playing their game one day could have saved a child's life.
I hate to see people go. It breaks my heart. I want you all to come back and play again. I completely support your right to walk away from a situation and product that you find unsustainable.
I will miss you all.
There is one thought I would like to leave you all with, devs, mods and posters.
Usually in this world, you have to choose between being right, or getting what you want. It is rare that you can have both.
I will miss those of you who leaave and celebrate it when you come back.
*hugs n kisses*
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People leave all the time. A few forumites isn't even a stastic.
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I HAVE to know what a stastic is .... 
I was thinking .. if you are a forumite but NOT a stastic .. what does that make you?
I'm with Brax on this one, at the beginning it was a big issue but now it's gotten to the point of so much complaining that I don't care to hear about it anymore.
@Killerhurtz & @Killerhurtz 2 of Justice
Arc ID# 95628 What If...#1 The 'Hurtz' Family
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People leave all the time. A few forumites isn't even a stastic.
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I HAVE to know what a stastic is ....
I was thinking .. if you are a forumite but NOT a stastic .. what does that make you?
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It's like a statistic, but it tastes like candy. True story. Apparently I'm not a 'forumite' but a 'troll' according to the regulars. So I'm safe.
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
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Truefully, I did care when all this whole mess started, but the more I see discussion about it, the more Im starting not to care about it anymore.
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I didn't care about it when it started, and still don't.
With that said, it was all done so wrong as to be truly mind-boggling.
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People leave all the time. A few forumites isn't even a stastic.
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I HAVE to know what a stastic is ....
I was thinking .. if you are a forumite but NOT a stastic .. what does that make you?
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It's like a statistic, but it tastes like candy. True story. Apparently I'm not a 'forumite' but a 'troll' according to the regulars. So I'm safe.
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I don't think you're a troll, I just think you're wrong. Of course I don't know you very well, but I'm sure that'll change. I also think that maybe you've spent enough time in QA/CS in the gaming world to become jaded and bitter, almost resenting the group of people from whom you collect your paycheck.
But then you think we're wrong too, which is fine.
I gotta say, though, with all honesty, I really hope I never end up working on a game where you're in CS or QA. And that's based solely on the things you've said in this thread. I'm sure you're a nice fella, but you're probably a nightmare for the average end-user gamer.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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People leave all the time. A few forumites isn't even a stastic.
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I HAVE to know what a stastic is ....
I was thinking .. if you are a forumite but NOT a stastic .. what does that make you?
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It's like a statistic, but it tastes like candy. True story. Apparently I'm not a 'forumite' but a 'troll' according to the regulars. So I'm safe.
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I don't think you're a troll, I just think you're wrong. Of course I don't know you very well, but I'm sure that'll change. I also think that maybe you've spent enough time in QA/CS in the gaming world to become jaded and bitter, almost resenting the group of people from whom you collect your paycheck.
But then you think we're wrong too, which is fine.
I gotta say, though, with all honesty, I really hope I never end up working on a game where you're in CS or QA. And that's based solely on the things you've said in this thread. I'm sure you're a nice fella, but you're probably a nightmare for the average end-user gamer.
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Hey that's all so totally.. er.. true. In my defense I'm a nightmare for the dev's and producers too though.
Edit: I forgot, they'd never put me on the same side of the building as CS.
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
Just a quick note about why Posi is mentioned. He became the "face" of this with his two posts. Regardless of who actually makes those decisions the fact that he posted them put it on him. All anyone wants is a statement regarding this past weeks fiasco and the poor handling of it and some CS changes. Yeah mistakes happen fess up and let us regain trust and mutual respect. (which actually will take time to rebuild sadly)