Playability and Fun Are Not Always The Same Thing

Or are they?

I am a frequent soloer, so I tend to select ATs that can solo strongly. For me, if I can't solo a Toon at Level 4 post SOs, then it's probably not going to be something that I'm going to enjoy.

Does anyone else have a similar issue? Something that keeps them from playing a Particluar AT or Powerset because it's just not fun to them even though there's nothing wrong with the set?

Until I changed my Brute from Dark/Shield to Dark/Stone I had the same sentiment. I also don't have as much fun on my Zombie MM as I do on my Bot MM.

Not every build or AT is designed for everyones enjoyment. Just like in Warhammer Online. The only toon I found fun in that game was the Witch Hunter, everything else was meh.

I used to be terrified of playing melee. I was absolutely HORRIBLE at it.

Played up my defender and then a controller to 50 and decided okay, time to work up to this. So I played a fire/fire tank, and LOVED HIM. So with that behind me, I can pretty much pick up most AT's now.

Powersets... yeah, not so much. I don't use pets except for the fly trap in my Plant troller's set, I just can't stand how their AI always screws things up. Little aggromagnets. And thus, I also have some issues with mastermind play, it's way over my head.

Given the choice between playing 'yet another controller' and something different, I still kinda lean toward a troller though. I have only one Scrapper above 30, and a total of maybe 6 of them at all, so I know I haven't really experienced a variety of melee play. But I *am* very much enjoying the db/wp scrapper I have, she's almost 39.

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I used to be terrified of playing melee. I was absolutely HORRIBLE at it.

Played up my defender and then a controller to 50 and decided okay, time to work up to this. So I played a fire/fire tank, and LOVED HIM. So with that behind me, I can pretty much pick up most AT's now.

Powersets... yeah, not so much. I don't use pets except for the fly trap in my Plant troller's set, I just can't stand how their AI always screws things up. Little aggromagnets. And thus, I also have some issues with mastermind play, it's way over my head.

Given the choice between playing 'yet another controller' and something different, I still kinda lean toward a troller though. I have only one Scrapper above 30, and a total of maybe 6 of them at all, so I know I haven't really experienced a variety of melee play. But I *am* very much enjoying the db/wp scrapper I have, she's almost 39.

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If you ever want a MM tutor just ask. It was my first toon even on the EU trial before bodyguarding and I loved it.

Well the thing is I was in the COV beta and I chose a dark/necro mm, and ... when I made her on live, I've since never gotten her past level 21. I did respec her into a fully defensive mode, but ... bleah. She is on the table for side switching if it's going to be possible, because I just ... don't like playing redside either. Too dark.

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Well the thing is I was in the COV beta and I chose a dark/necro mm, and ... when I made her on live, I've since never gotten her past level 21. I did respec her into a fully defensive mode, but ... bleah. She is on the table for side switching if it's going to be possible, because I just ... don't like playing redside either. Too dark.

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the problem with defensive mode zombies, is that they don't do that much damage. I can totally understand the not liking redside but zombies and Ninjas are the most difficult ones to keep alive. could be why you have some issues

No, I mean the character. I put everything into the zombies, and her healing. I had formerly put the leadership pool on her but that stank and drained end like crazy, so I gave that up. I suspect with more *practice* she'd be a very workable character, but meh, I'm just not always into summoning Twitterpated, Diddlysquat, Boogiedeboogie and the rest...

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No, I mean the character. I put everything into the zombies, and her healing. I had formerly put the leadership pool on her but that stank and drained end like crazy, so I gave that up. I suspect with more *practice* she'd be a very workable character, but meh, I'm just not always into summoning Twitterpated, Diddlysquat, Boogiedeboogie and the rest...

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Which goes right back to the original topic Summoners are my fav to play in any mmo or rpg.

I used to have an issue with masterminds, specifically finding them boring -

No, I should correct that. I had (still have, really) a Bot/FF mastermind. I found leveling him a chore because it was boring as heck. Bubble, select target, sit, wait, go again. I completely gave up on MMs for a bit, as the experience with that character colored how I felt about the entire AT.

Eventually - since I've got this urge to get at least one of everything up to 50 (and heroside... more than past, second defender up to 50 in a bit over 200 hrs) I decided to give them another shot. I went into the mastermind forums, said flat out "I find this character boring and it's made me not want to play msaterminds, that other characters I tend to like doing X, Y, Z with - so is there a powerset that would change my minds, that you think I'd enjoy?"

They looked, said "You seem to like being busy and involved, so yeah, bot/ff is not for you, try these..."

Ended up with a Thugs/Poison who became one of my favourite characters.

The bot/FF is sitting at 26 - I've passed him, again, with a necro/poison and merc/storm. >.<

Other sets?
I *Love* controllers... except Illusion. Cannot stand the illusion set. Still trying to fight through it with an ill/sonic, but it doesnt' get logged on for long before I go to play something else.

Can't think of others that just don't do it for me - perhaps Storm, but that's more not being completely used to hurricaine (and why I don't mind on my MM - my henchmen won't get annoyed if I screw up with it.)

Edit:
Oh. VEATs. I find my widow OK, after multiple respecs. My bane... ugh. And wanting to level to try the other branches (yes, I know, I can do dual builds - but I tend to want to know how they do on their own) ... I just have no urge to. If they had a decent... well, *any* - storyline past the earliest contacts, well... on the flipside, I love my Khelds. *shrug*

See my Guides and Tutorials

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Not every build or AT is designed for everyones enjoyment. Just like in Warhammer Online. The only toon I found fun in that game was the Witch Hunter, everything else was meh.

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I started off playing a Shadow Warrior, but...they have some issues, let's say, in PvP. (Damn that awesome opening movie yet an utter lack of dual-wielding SWs in the game....) Rolled a Witch Hunter, and their attack-attack-attack-BIGattack mechanic made it hard to play anything else at all. I hear ya.

Here I just can't play Tankers. Solo they're just slow as hell for me, and teamed I get bored being an aggro bot. And everybody seems to want you to herd. Gag me. Not a huge fan of Defenders solo either, but teams like you and it's a lot of fun there. Tanker style annoys me BOTH ways. I give up, I'm waiting for either Axe Scrappers or Rogue Brutes to fill that particular concept.

For me I find Peacebringers very playable, but the most boring thing I have ever done in my life. I'm not a tank person, so I find Dwarf form lame. Nova is fine. The human form powers just don't do it for me. I feel like a gimped blapper. Sure PBs are very effective and a good AT, I just hate it. On the other hand, my WS is my all time favorite.

I struggled alot solo'ing with my Grav/Kin troller in her early levels during i13 because I was too used to a Blaster playstyle. But eventually I began to appreciate the sort of fun array of strategies I can toy with playing a troller.

I find it highly unlikely that I will ever enjoy playing a Tanker, especially while solo'ing. I've tried it once, and it felt painful to me.

I didn't use to solo a lot. However, I'm currently on a laptop with Vista, and I can't seem to get the hotfix installed- something about an error code 40. So, City of Heroes crashes every time I get in too big a group, or even a room with too many mobs. So, I play solo- which isn't entirely bad. My main character is a scrapper. But I'd really like to try a few non-solo powersets every now and then, or just level faster, and I can't do any of that. It vexes me.

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I used to have an issue with masterminds, specifically finding them boring -

No, I should correct that. I had (still have, really) a Bot/FF mastermind. I found leveling him a chore because it was boring as heck. Bubble, select target, sit, wait, go again. I completely gave up on MMs for a bit, as the experience with that character colored how I felt about the entire AT.

Eventually - since I've got this urge to get at least one of everything up to 50 (and heroside... more than past, second defender up to 50 in a bit over 200 hrs) I decided to give them another shot. I went into the mastermind forums, said flat out "I find this character boring and it's made me not want to play msaterminds, that other characters I tend to like doing X, Y, Z with - so is there a powerset that would change my minds, that you think I'd enjoy?"

They looked, said "You seem to like being busy and involved, so yeah, bot/ff is not for you, try these..."

Ended up with a Thugs/Poison who became one of my favourite characters.

The bot/FF is sitting at 26 - I've passed him, again, with a necro/poison and merc/storm. >.<

Other sets?
I *Love* controllers... except Illusion. Cannot stand the illusion set. Still trying to fight through it with an ill/sonic, but it doesnt' get logged on for long before I go to play something else.

Can't think of others that just don't do it for me - perhaps Storm, but that's more not being completely used to hurricaine (and why I don't mind on my MM - my henchmen won't get annoyed if I screw up with it.)

Edit:
Oh. VEATs. I find my widow OK, after multiple respecs. My bane... ugh. And wanting to level to try the other branches (yes, I know, I can do dual builds - but I tend to want to know how they do on their own) ... I just have no urge to. If they had a decent... well, *any* - storyline past the earliest contacts, well... on the flipside, I love my Khelds. *shrug*

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I have the opposite reaction with my bot FF MM. I play on challenge 3, and If I don't use my presence skills to keep the aggro, theres a very good chance when fighting 5 or so that the bots will die, especially if theres more than one red spawn. I do have a ton of fun on MMs. Sometimes when they want to attack diff targets it can be a bit of a chore keeping them bodyguarded, and on target but its fun and it will most likely always be my fav AT in this game.

Just yesterday as a matter of fact; I was fighting 3 in one of the RWZ missions (i can't remember if it was rescue the soldier or destroy equipment). I missed the fact there was a comm officer around the corner, soon enough I had 6 guys all running around tagging my bots and me. Even after I threw up force bubble cuz I didn't know what direction all the fire was coming from, one of my bots bit it. I fell back with bots in tow so I could reign in the aggro and all went well afterwards.

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I didn't use to solo a lot. However, I'm currently on a laptop with Vista, and I can't seem to get the hotfix installed- something about an error code 40. So, City of Heroes crashes every time I get in too big a group, or even a room with too many mobs. So, I play solo- which isn't entirely bad. My main character is a scrapper. But I'd really like to try a few non-solo powersets every now and then, or just level faster, and I can't do any of that. It vexes me.

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did you try checking to see if the hotfix was listed under add/remove programs? If it is, remove it and try reinstalling it. Normally that error is caused from a failed installation and unless you uninstall it it will not reinstall. If it isn't listed under add/remove programs there is a process for removing hotfixes under one of the Microsoft articles.

There's some stuff from the Service Pack 2, but no hotfixes. Do you have a link to this other process?

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No, I mean the character. I put everything into the zombies, and her healing. I had formerly put the leadership pool on her but that stank and drained end like crazy, so I gave that up. I suspect with more *practice* she'd be a very workable character, but meh, I'm just not always into summoning Twitterpated, Diddlysquat, Boogiedeboogie and the rest...

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What made Masterminds workable for me was the system of binds I made to control them. The Henchman AI is pretty dumb, but with just a few keybinds, they're actually pretty easy to control. One of the really cool things I like to do on my Mercs/Traps Mastermind is set up a minefield, then pull with my Spec Ops So who cares if I get return fire? He's expendable

As for playability, I refuse to play anything support. Yes, people may be able to solo anything under the sun, but I don't care if they can get to 50 using just Brawl and Sprint, it doesn't change the fact that Defenders, Controllers and even Tankers deal so little damage that they move at a snail's pace. Plus, I have a REALLY big problem with powers that require an ally to use. Allies are unreliable and teaming with random strangers is rarely interesting, I'm afraid.

Luckily, though, I still have access to almost all kinds of powersets even keeping to ATs that can solo. Between Scrappers, Brutes and Stalkers, I get access to all Melee and Defence powersets in the game, I get Summons and Support from Masterminds and I get Blast and Support sets from Blasters. If Castle delivers on Dominators and makes them playable to me (hard to imagine, but I'm keeping an open mind), I'll get access to Control and Assault sets, pretty much giving me access to the whole game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I posted something along these lines in an unofficial community a few days ago: http://community.livejournal.com/cit...s/3157565.html

@SpaceNut - My 50s, AE arcs and current projects at ParagonWiki

QR

about MMs..

I like attacking, so I take all 3 attacks that MMs can get and slot them, plus the vet powers, set the tier 1 henchmen to bodyguard mode, and charge in like some platoon sergeant. You stay pretty busy that way. And when you are feeling lazy like some cowardly general that stays back, you can send them in by themselves.

I would like to play a melee-oriented MM some day.

My MMs each only have their tier 2 attack so far, plus Sands of Mu and the Temp Power Trio (Hammer, Slammer, and Blammer). They will eventually get a second attack once their troops have what they need.

Still, they get in there and fight alongside their followers when not healing and buffing. Their philosophy was taken from Johnny Blasts the Bugmen (the movie based on the Starship Troopers book).

"Everyone fights. Nobody quits."

I play my Necro/Dark in melee. She has the pets, she's not nuts, but also has Boxing, Kick, and AS, but none of the ranged attacks. Doing fine as of the mid-teens, we'll see how long she can stick it out. When the MM is in melee, the pets seem to need less "go to melee" ordering, and she's in the perfect spot to heal all of them too. Dark is a very good set for this style.

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I play my Necro/Dark in melee. She has the pets, she's not nuts, but also has Boxing, Kick, and AS, but none of the ranged attacks. Doing fine as of the mid-teens, we'll see how long she can stick it out. When the MM is in melee, the pets seem to need less "go to melee" ordering, and she's in the perfect spot to heal all of them too. Dark is a very good set for this style.

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It's a shame the radius on the MM version of Twilight Grasp is so pathetically small. It really needs increased by at least 5 feet.

Fun is not about playability, its about skills.

and vice versa

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Allies are unreliable

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I heard that!