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Not going to comment much on that, I did do my math Wrong on the attack chain I did with Dark melee and brutes came out ahead 60 points of damage. On yours you didn't include crits, when I went back and did the math my self from base damage and didn't add the crits I got the same number (well 287.20) but in the end it came to a total of 1580. So about an extra 203 points, thats all they get with an extra 350% percent damage buff, not to mention an outside damage buff which costs brutes more recharge and end, and on an even sets like Dark Melee they only get about an extra 60 points of damage for a whole 350% of damage buff wow.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Ok, at this point, Duh Capn is spewing so much idiocy that I'm getting annoyed.
Scrapper damage buff cap: 400 Brute damage buff cap: 750 Back to Claws (This time, actually READ THE WORDS and make an ATTEMPT at understanding them.) Claws attack chain: Followup, Slash, Focus, Strike. Scrapper: Base damage of chain: 287.285 Buffs: Max buff 400% Total damage of chain: 287.285*(1+4) = 1436.425 Brute: Base damage of chain: 209.958 Buffs: Max buff 750% Total damage of chain: 209.958*(1+7.5) = 1784.643 The brute wins by 350 points of damage PER CHAIN. Brutes don't sit at 75% fury between missions? No ****, Sherlock. I'll quote myself again since you don't bother reading posts: FURY DOESN'T MATTER WHEN YOU'RE NOT IN COMBAT It takes me 2 enemies to get warmed up. Once I'm there, I'll drop to 60% fury between spawns and get back up to 80% before the first enemy in the next spawn falls to the floor. Do you understand the the problem is YOURS? Learn to use brawl, EP and barrage more. I also use boxing right now, but only because I plan to have tough/weave. It won't be in my chain at all once I get more recharge in my attacks. |
I still think 75% is a bit much to consider the average, if you think I am wrong show me, still waiting on the video, actions speak louder than words.
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| All of which other than the aoe intangible are non-issues unless you are sitting back and playing timid. Considering I've seen an aoe intang used 3 times in the 4 yrs I've been playing... |
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| Sure, if you factor in non combat time you may well be right. But non-combat time is irrelevant. Brutes easily average 75% fury while fighting. The fact is they are usually at much higher than 75% during the fight. the 75% is derived by averaging the lower fury at the start and the higher fury near the end of each confrontation. |
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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You are the one arguing with the simple numbers, that makes the burden of proof fall into your lap. Also considering a vid of you playing was requested first and you are one of the only people I've heard say that fury building is difficult.|
Originally Posted by Da_Captain
I still think 75% is a bit much to consider the average, if you think I am wrong show me, still waiting on the video, actions speak louder than words.
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I don't feel I have anything to prove. My brutes rip hard, generally a bit harder than my scrappers. I have no issues getting great mileage out of brutes. You are the one that is struggling to exceed 60% fury, that is your problem as we have been fairly helpful.
You are deliberately seeking ways that make a brute struggle to build fury and then citing that as some all encompassing truth, when the reality is the vast majority of the time fury is simple and easy to get very high. If you are frequently afk'ing or letting a dominator beat you to the punch then ya brutes won't exceed expectations. Maybe the is representative of how you play the game, but it sure doesn't look like what I do.
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I'm not going to waste my time reinstalling wegame or fraps to drill these facts into your head any more than I already have. If a screenshot isn't enough, tough titties.| I still think 75% is a bit much to consider the average, if you think I am wrong show me, still waiting on the video, actions speak louder than words. |
I will waste a bit more telling you exactly how I run my brutes... again, so that you can figure out why you fail so easily with your brutes.
Bind your movement powers to a key close to the middle of the keyboard. I use G for sprint and B for ninja run.
Enter mission. Start attacking. Use brawl when energy punch, bonesmasher and barrage are recharging. Add in air-sup or boxing if you like.
When last enemy falls, hit G and B or whatever your movement power is, get to next spawn, shut movement power off, fight.
Repeat until mission is done. Stay above 60% fury and profit.
If you are not built to handle that level of non-stop action, you're doing it wrong or you're lower than 22.
I will happily admit that due to the lack of stamina, maintaining high levels of fury in the pre-22 levels is harder. Resting will drop me closer to 0 fury. The horror. I'll be back to needing two enemies to get back up above 75% fury.
EDIT: And I caught the lack of crits before you posted. The brute STILL wins by 240 damage per chain.
EDIT2: I did PM a dev wondering if there was a way to get the Damage Buff monitor to dump to a text file, but was told that the tech isn't currently available.
Be well, people of CoH.
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We know you think it is lower, you are the same guy that couldn't get it up right? |
Originally Posted by Da_Captain
Yeah I think the average of the fight more averages around 60%, Just from start of battle to end of battle for each battle on a 0/x1 mish. This is coming from an expert Scrapper, and a novice brute player, and I think your values don't include how an extreme beginner would play this game, they would expect so much damage and then when they have a hard time trying to survive to get it then they are left with the, "Brutes suck", "I tried them and didn't like them", "They need a buff", etc and that is not the case they were expecting something they didn't get.
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Why would a beginner expect "so much damage" where does it say anything on the character creation screen relating their damage to another AT? It doesn't, it just says high damage, which I can assure you during the low levels they are extreme high damage because scalars haven't kicked in yet so they are comparatively doing more damage with their attacks than they eventually will.
I've heard a lot of things around here, but never once have I heard "brutes suck", or "they need a buff" used to describe brutes. I've heard buff requests for specific powers, but never about the AT. I've heard the opposite though. /e shrug.
Lastly, any, and I mean ANY, self proclaimed scrapper "expert" would have zero issues playing a brute to full potential. That isn't a statement of declaration of whether they will necessarily like brutes, but for any such "expert" fury is so easy to build and maintain it really is a non-issue. I'm not sure who was handing out the expert badges the day you got yours, but it may have been a clerical error.
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Funny|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
We know you think it is lower, you are the same guy that couldn't get it up right?
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| I've heard a lot of things around here, but never once have I heard "brutes suck", or "they need a buff" used to describe brutes. I've heard buff requests for specific powers, but never about the AT. I've heard the opposite though. /e shrug. |
But to be fair, I have heard some bad comments about Scrappers, mainly from people trying to Tank but aren't built for the job, even then I let them know, tanking isn't a scrappers job, but they are able to do it if built correctly
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| Lastly, any, and I mean ANY, self proclaimed scrapper "expert" would have zero issues playing a brute to full potential. That isn't a statement of declaration of whether they will necessarily like brutes, but for any such "expert" fury is so easy to build and maintain it really is a non-issue. I'm not sure who was handing out the expert badges the day you got yours, but it may have been a clerical error. |
Anyway since I won't see a video and I have conducted an in game survey, I have all the answers I need, you keep to your opinions and I will keep to mine. Thank you all for the help, I will be playing my Brute on /x3 when solo so that I can keep a full bar of fury.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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Bill, while I don't agree with the Da Captains arguements, I think you're over simplifying - and not taking into consideration your own skill or the skill of any other top end player vs. the average player who might not be capable of surviving the amount of mobs it takes to generate fury quickly.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I will happily admit that due to the lack of stamina, maintaining high levels of fury in the pre-22 levels is harder. Resting will drop me closer to 0 fury. The horror. I'll be back to needing two enemies to get back up above 75% fury.
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As for using attacks...
I just went to the RWZ Vanguard base and used the practice dummies in the armory.
145% Global Recharge with hasten running, hasten's downtime was irrelevant as I waited for it to be recharged before starting the test and both tests were completed in less than or equal to 2 minutes.
These aren't exact times, but they're close enough.
Attack Chain 1 = Punch > Boxing > Brawl
50% Fury took approx 30s
90% Fury took approx 50s
Attack Chain 2 = KO Blow > Gloom1 > Haymaker > Punch > Gloom2 > Haymaker
*.5s gap between punch and Gloom2
50% Fury took approx 74s
90% Fury took approx 120s
So under the best circumstances, where I would do no damage of any real value, I can be at 50% fury in 30s chaining the worst of the worst attacks. This would be in any situation where I either don't have enough enemies present, or someone else has aggro to prevent me from using that to generate fury.
30s is a long time. That's practically an entire fight in the CoH/V combat system.
If others are interested in doing some more tests, one test just using enemy attacks and another using both fast personal attacks as well as being attacked by different sized mobs - that would be interesting to see.
Some things to think about would be enemy type, number of enemies (maybe something like 3 mobs / 7 mobs / 10 mobs) and survivability levels across the full L1-50 spectrum.
1: Brutes have a single target taunt attached to their attacks.
2: Brutes can take the power taunt.
3: Most brutes have taunt auras.
4: Enemies fight back, hit or miss, those attacks increase fury.
5: If a brute is teamed with 7 dominators and every spawn is completely locked down and unable to fight, the brute doesn't very well need fury now does he?
6: In game surveys are not valid data points. They're worth precisely nothing except to the ignorant that ignore factual data when failing to prove their baseless arguments.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Sounds like a secret conspiracy to me. Or it didn't happen. I'm aware the forums is not representative of the entire populace, but something as major as "so many comments" would likely sneak onto the forums at some point.|
Originally Posted by Da_Captain
Here...? Don't make me laugh, do you know how much of the actual playerbase is actually on the forums? I have heard so many comments about Brutes needing a damage buff and some even saying a survival buff (Those comments are trivial though as most people who say it don't have fighting).
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I that statement couldn't be more wrong, Scrappers don't have to maintain anything but a green bar, and on an Expert Scrapper the Green Bar maintains itself. Anyway since I won't see a video and I have conducted an in game survey, I have all the answers I need, you keep to your opinions and I will keep to mine. Thank you all for the help, I will be playing my Brute on /x3 when solo so that I can keep a full bar of fury. |
lol there is nothing technically difficult about playing a high damage armored AT short of occasionally having to prioritize targets within the spawn. If you said something like you were an expert storm player or expert with MM macro/binds you might have had a point.
Proficiency with scrappers leads directly to faster kill times. That exact playstyle leads to high fury.
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I don't think it has been changed, but|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
As for using attacks...
I just went to the RWZ Vanguard base and used the practice dummies in the armory. |
Fury generation:
Attack/Attacked for class minion/lut/boss
Fury is awarded regardless of a successful hit
4/2 so 8%/4% dam buff for 3 seconds.
-2 (4% dam buff) decay every 1 second.
Once you reach 80pts of fury it changes and you encounter diminishing returns so that exceeding 80% fury is more difficult than reaching it and/or maintaining it. Vs AV's the diminishing returns are not supposed to be present (or maybe just not as strong) so reaching max fury (95+) is more feasible.
Just using attacks fury generation is more difficult as designed. It is maximized by attacking quickly and being attacked quickly.
How quickly fury builds is dependent on your power choice use and to a lesser extent the mobs you are facing. If you have powers that decrease enemy attack rate (ie -rech, mezz, knocks) you will lower the amount of fury generation that they contribute. This is the given reason why ice melee/armor was removed from brutes as it supposedly hampered fury production. However, the devs obviously never played dark armor as it restricts enemy fury far more than ice ever could. And yet DA brutes still have little issues generating fury. I'm pretty sure we weren't given ice armor because of a specific fury exploit that would still exist involving hibernate. Anyway though.
The math isn't particularly difficulty and it is pretty easy to see how reaching 75 pts of fury is a common occurrence. Obviously it gets easier the more powerful your toon becomes due to attack chain saturation and the ability to face enemies more frequently.
That should make the early game comparatively worse for brutes then because they have less attacks and can't face as many enemies? It would. Except AT scalars don't take full effect until the late teens. This mean brutes are doing more damage with their attacks than their 0.75 scalar suggest meaning less fury requirements to match other high damage toons.
It also means that during the restrictive levels where endurance is a major concern brutes have more leeway to slot end reduction DO's than is afforded to other AT's without having a major impact on their output.
Really, the only time a Brute isn't better than a Scrapper is Elec Melee and/or /SD, due to the low pet damage caps and AAO working off base damage.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Bill, while I don't agree with the Da Captains arguements, I think you're over simplifying - and not taking into consideration your own skill or the skill of any other top end player vs. the average player who might not be capable of surviving the amount of mobs it takes to generate fury quickly.
As for using attacks... I just went to the RWZ Vanguard base and used the practice dummies in the armory. 145% Global Recharge with hasten running, hasten's downtime was irrelevant as I waited for it to be recharged before starting the test and both tests were completed in less than or equal to 2 minutes. These aren't exact times, but they're close enough. Attack Chain 1 = Punch > Boxing > Brawl 50% Fury took approx 30s 90% Fury took approx 50s Attack Chain 2 = KO Blow > Gloom1 > Haymaker > Punch > Gloom2 > Haymaker *.5s gap between punch and Gloom2 50% Fury took approx 74s 90% Fury took approx 120s So under the best circumstances, where I would do no damage of any real value, I can be at 50% fury in 30s chaining the worst of the worst attacks. This would be in any situation where I either don't have enough enemies present, or someone else has aggro to prevent me from using that to generate fury. 30s is a long time. That's practically an entire fight in the CoH/V combat system. If others are interested in doing some more tests, one test just using enemy attacks and another using both fast personal attacks as well as being attacked by different sized mobs - that would be interesting to see. Some things to think about would be enemy type, number of enemies (maybe something like 3 mobs / 7 mobs / 10 mobs) and survivability levels across the full L1-50 spectrum. |
I'm not sure how the rwz dummies work - do they attack you? I'm guessing no, which means your fury will go up much more quickly in regular gameplay, especially since even on the lowest mish settings solo, you'll have a few enemies firing off attacks at you, that also generate fury.
Really, the best way to do it is to simply make a brute and play it in missions. If you do that, you'll see how easy it is to generate fury, and keep it at reasonably high levels while you're playing. There will be a few instances where you're fury levels will be too low to do scrapper level damage, but there will be more instances where you will be doing scrapper level damage and above. But you'll ALWAYS have more health, and better defense and buff caps. That's why brutes are slightly more powerful overall than scrappers. It kind of pains me to say it, because scrappers are my favorite at, but it's simply the truth.
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Good point, these are exceptions to the rule.
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Originally Posted by Silas
Really, the only time a Brute isn't better than a Scrapper is Elec Melee and/or /SD, due to the low pet damage caps and AAO working off base damage.
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Originally Posted by Silas
Really, the only time a Brute isn't better than a Scrapper is Elec Melee and/or /SD, due to the low pet damage caps and AAO working off base damage.
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I am going to show you how different a scrapper is from a brute. Because from what you are telling me to do for a brute to keep up fury are somethings I have never done on any of my Scraps| "expert" scrappers know how to fly through spawns so fast blasters get jealous. It just so happens that applying that "expertise" results in Brutes flying through spawns so fast blasters get jealous. |
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| Enter mission. Start attacking. Use brawl when energy punch, bonesmasher and barrage are recharging. Add in air-sup or boxing if you like. |
Now if Scraps had Energy Melee here is how I would enter a mish....
Whirling hands, Energy Transfer (1st minion dead), Total Focus (Next minion dead), Bonesmasher then Barrage, on to the next group.
See how different playing a brute and Scrapper are, Brutes need to build up fury by doing small attacks to build up their bar, while Scrappers come in Killing.
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Attack Chain 2 = KO Blow > Gloom1 > Haymaker > Punch > Gloom2 > Haymaker *.5s gap between punch and Gloom2 50% Fury took approx 74s 90% Fury took approx 120s |
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| 4/2 so 8%/4% dam buff for 3 seconds. |
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
1: You're ignoring the fury gained from the incoming attacks.
2: Anyone playing a brute at level 50 on base difficulty should delete said brute just as anyone playing a scrapper at level 50 on base difficulty should delete said scrapper.
3: The quote you used of mine is for an em/inv brute at level 25. She doesn't have total focus or energy transfer. At 50, feel free to open with TF and ET if you like. It won't matter as long as you're cycling in the quick recharge, low cast time attacks as well.
4: Here's a long one: If you really wish to compare brutes versus scrappers, let's also talk about the pre-50 fully IOed out stages.
1-21: Attacks aren't 6 slotted. If you don't slot end-red, you'll be sucking wind every fight. That drops damage. If you don't slot some accuracy, you'll miss more, burning more end, doing no damage. That drops damage. Don't slot recharge and you might end up with big pauses in your attack chain, reducing overall DPS. That's even less damage per attack. Probably no damage enhancements in the power at all.
All the scrapper has at that point is the higher base value and crits.
Brutes, on the other hand, don't need to worry about slotting damage. They get to cruise around with a variable 0 to 180% damage buff from moment one.
Guess who'll be leveling faster due to less downtime?
The story remains true even after SOs. While scrappers need to concentrate on getting more damage enhs into their attacks, brutes get to utilize more end-red and rec-red since fury takes care of their damage enhancement issue.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Kill things quickly? from the sounds if it ya, you don't. But I already revoked your expert scrapper badge, reapplication starts in May.|
Originally Posted by Da_Captain
I am going to show you how different a scrapper is from a brute. Because from what you are telling me to do for a brute to keep up fury are somethings I have never done on any of my Scraps
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| Assuming the mish is 0/x1 |
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Now if Scraps had Energy Melee here is how I would enter a mish.... Whirling hands, Energy Transfer (1st minion dead), Total Focus (Next minion dead), Bonesmasher then Barrage, on to the next group. |
I always took out the first spawn with bu+FE on my em/fire. It basically smoothed out my performance as I would have high fury by the time I was on to the next ones. Then again I leave 0/x1 solo to my emp with only 1 attack (just kidding, I don't have one of those).
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| See how different playing a brute and Scrapper are, Brutes need to build up fury by doing small attacks to build up their bar, while Scrappers come in Killing. |
translation: scrappers start fast and can handle ups and downs of the game cause they always perform well.
Brutes are like RWD cars. They spin out in the beginning while searching for the rear wheels to hook up and then accelerate faster. They have higher peak performance because less power is lost in the drivetrain and they ultimately turn in better laps times.
translation: brutes start killing slower, but once they build up fury they move through spawns faster. You need a bit more skill (though not nearly as much as in the car analogy) to get peak performance out of a brute.
AWD cars are typically easier to learn to drive at the edge, but RWD cars can outperform them when driven with skill.
translation: scrappers are easier, but brutes are better race cars... and lets be honest, in CoX the difference in skill required is puny.
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| Given the current Chain and mathematics at level 50 (Assuming one rage is active) the Brute would probably kill the first minion with KO blow and Gloom, building 8 with attacks and taking probably 2 attacks from each of the other 2 minions, that is another 8 giving a total of 16. The next minion would be dead from the next 2 attacks giving you 8 more, and that last minion would probably have 2 attacks off as well giving you 4 more for a total of 28. And this last minion could probably be taken out with a Punch and a Haymaker for 8 more, let's say you even used brawl on each minion that's 6 more for a total of 42. I didn't include the amount of fury depreciated in 3 seconds. If you are using anything else to prolong the battle to build fury, you are taking too long as a scrapper would have already finished the battle 2.5 seconds sooner. |
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Nope I included the incoming attacks was pretty generous about it too minons usually only get about since they usually only really get about three or four attacks in the whole time.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
1: You're ignoring the fury gained from the incoming attacks.
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| 2: Anyone playing a brute at level 50 on base difficulty should delete said brute just as anyone playing a scrapper at level 50 on base difficulty should delete said scrapper. |
1. Fire Armor isn't that great for Scraps/Brutes
2. He only had 6 month badge (For him to have a 40 in 6 months I'd still place him in the learning curve group, it took me a year to get my first 50, though mine was a fire/fire blaster pre xp smoothing)
3. He didn't have fighting pool
4. No set bonuses
I have teamed with plenty of Scraps that can't do half the things mine can do. From my research of Unsurvivable Scraps, a lot of people seriously underestimate the power of tough/weave, really just weave in most cases, I mean it does great things to sets like /SR, /WP, and /Inv.
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| 3: The quote you used of mine is for an em/inv brute at level 25. She doesn't have total focus or energy transfer. At 50, feel free to open with TF and ET if you like. It won't matter as long as you're cycling in the quick recharge, low cast time attacks as well. |
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4: Here's a long one: If you really wish to compare brutes versus scrappers, let's also talk about the pre-50 fully IOed out stages. 1-21: Attacks aren't 6 slotted. If you don't slot end-red, you'll be sucking wind every fight. That drops damage. If you don't slot some accuracy, you'll miss more, burning more end, doing no damage. That drops damage. Don't slot recharge and you might end up with big pauses in your attack chain, reducing overall DPS. That's even less damage per attack. Probably no damage enhancements in the power at all. All the scrapper has at that point is the higher base value and crits. Brutes, on the other hand, don't need to worry about slotting damage. They get to cruise around with a variable 0 to 180% damage buff from moment one. Guess who'll be leveling faster due to less downtime? The story remains true even after SOs. While scrappers need to concentrate on getting more damage enhs into their attacks, brutes get to utilize more end-red and rec-red since fury takes care of their damage enhancement issue. |
I do agree that Brutes don't have to worry that much about slotting for damage or exceeding scrapper level damage, and the more enemies the more the brute is in the advantage. For redside they are the perfect Scranker, Redside needed them. Solo their survivablity is just about equal, Brutes get a bit of more hp (which gives them better self heals) The only time (solo) that caps are really a difference maker is on T9s (I have yet to take/need one). As far as change is concerned, I think we might see some since sideswtiching is going to be an option now, I think Defenders are only the beginning.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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And on the 18th time having it explained light finally shone.|
Originally Posted by Da_Captain
That was really my mistake, I should have played him more like my Scrappers.
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And on the 19th reply I was able to rest from all my works.
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Nah, I still got it. I was told to start with Brawl, my Scrappers don't even know what that is. If yours do, then you sir are the one who needs to reapply|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Kill things quickly? from the sounds if it ya, you don't. But I already revoked your expert scrapper badge, reapplication starts in May.
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| alright so we are talking about a lvl 8 brute then? |
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| This is the same thing a brute does if they want cause you will be at high fury before the first spawn is dead, then run to the next one and be doing more damage than the scrapper. Of course, you'd have to be rolling your face around on the keyboard to be fighting at 0/x1 when you have ET and TF (lvl 32+) so your analysis is completely irrelevant. |
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| AWD cars are typically easier to learn to drive at the edge, but RWD cars can outperform them when driven with skill. |
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| translation: scrappers are easier, but brutes are better race cars... |
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| and lets be honest, in CoX the difference in skill required is puny. |
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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Brawl is useful before attack chain saturation, or if you are seeking an attack that cost zero endurance. You don't need to start with it, just include it during attack gaps. I use brawl on my scrappers until I have attack chain saturation. Some damage > no damage. Seems like something an "expert" would know.|
Originally Posted by Da_Captain
Nah, I still got it. I was told to start with Brawl, my Scrappers don't even know what that is. If yours do, then you sir are the one who needs to reapply
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I also haven't made any claims of being an "expert" that was you and only you. I do have a lot of experience with both AT's that have shaped my opinion of them and I am quite good at numerical assessments as well.
I personally don't think scrappers are complicated enough to be boasting claims of expert status, but if your pride depends on retaining a self declared, arbitrary and made-up title about the easiest and least complicated AT in the game then be my guest.
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| No but not everyone plays at /x8 content, I don't automatically assume that people can do the things I can |
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| It would only be irrelevant, if it wasn't an option, but it is and it is the base, just because it belittles you to play it doesn't mean that some don't, not everyone can compare or exceed your performance. (Though, I can) |
That said, I'm sure some people do play their brutes on 0/0, I'm also sure they are so casual about the game they don't give a rats *** about how their damage stacks up to a scrappers.
I also honestly don't care if you can exceed my personal performance. I'm pretty sure there is no actual competition involved in this discussion. However, you are the first person I've encountered that claimed to be an "expert" at the easiest AT in the game and then struggled playing the other easiest AT in the game that plays almost identically.
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| you said it |
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| I can't agree with that...some people still have trouble with Doms. |
Dom's are considerably more complex than scrappers or brutes. They rely on active mitigation vs passive mitigation and are a hybrid melee/ranged blaptroller AT.
The difference in skill requirement to play a scrapper well and a brute well (which is what is and was being talked about) is probably about 10%. If that is a hurdle you are struggling with then I'd hate to see you on a dom or one of the other AT's that are greatly more complicated than the two easiest AT's in the game.
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Still being small minded, the overall message was saying that you can't make assumptions.| Good thing the majority of examples have been talking about 0/x3, which even the weakest pairing can handle post SO's (see earlier explanations of why less fury is required in earlier levels). Your attempt to move the goalposts just failed. |
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| However, you are the first person I've encountered that claimed to be an "expert" at the easiest AT in the game and then struggled playing the other easiest AT in the game that plays almost identically. |
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| The difference in skill requirement to play a scrapper well and a brute well (which is what is and was being talked about) is probably about 10%. If that is a hurdle you are struggling with then I'd hate to see you on a dom or one of the other AT's that are greatly more complicated than the two easiest AT's in the game. |
Ummm...when did I say I was struggling with surviving on a Brute, Surviving has never been a problem for me, as that being said, I have 8 level 50 Doms (6 of which are perma) but all can take on /x8. Doms are actually the only redside AT I like (Base wise, I have a Bane and a NW that are pretty nice too.) I just don't like living on fury so I couldn't get into Brutes, MMs are a bit boring I got a Merc/Trap to 50 without trying. I have been thinking about leveling corr but I can't stop making Doms and Scraps (Really Scraps currently on a Kat/Regen, well I will be taking a short break from the game soon as I am about to go be a real hero).
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
Are you daft? this entire thread is about damage. Where are you suddenly getting the idea anyone is talking about surviving?
You are on the cusp of earning a troll badge, which might actually matter as it is far less arbitrary and less nebulous than your self proclaimed title.
And to top it all off you reveal you have 8 level 50 doms, 6 of which are perma no less. Yet you still came into this thread totally ignorant and unable to play a brute well. This is baffling. Seriously if you didn't just PL and RMT those perma doms then something is really out of sync in your postings.
Before today I would have said it was impossible for someone to be a scrapper expert (10 level 50's according to your earlier claim) and have 6 legitimately built perma doms and be virtually clueless about how to excel while playing a brute. Will wonders never cease?
Edit: deleting this post rather than dragging you through the mud. Pushing you face first into it was enough.
Quote:
Yeah, sorry about making it longer than it needed to be, I will admit that you are right in me being wrong. I really don't have a right comparing the two and I haven't played a brute enough to really do a comparison on it, and for that I do apologize, I should get the full facts on both sides before judging them.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Edit: deleting this post rather than dragging you through the mud. Pushing you face first into it was enough.
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I would like to apologize to the OP for doing no real justice to this Thread and Apologize to the Scrapper Forums for doing no justice.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
Non combat time is irrelevant because if I sit at the market long enough I can drive my average down to nearly 0% fury.
My bs/shield that is 4 levels higher can't finish it as quickly.