...hang on.
[ QUOTE ]
says Eric Heimburg, the lead engineer and producer on Asheron's Call, and the systems designer for the upcoming Star Trek online MMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't that guy from "We will recruit your playerbase" Cryptic?
[edit]
[ QUOTE ]
"City of Heroes' decision to punish players for infractions the players cannot predict is rather unusual" Heimburg remarks. "When competing superhero-based MMOs become available, that could be a problem."
[/ QUOTE ]
Whoa, unbiased!
[edit2] ...hang on. Image: Cryptic Studios?
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
That does seem a little odd, since, if my sense of this is up to date, Jack "Statesman" is now working on the Star Trek MMO.
Maybe it's not meant to be biased, but it at least makes it feel suspect.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's not meant to be biased, but it at least makes it feel suspect
[/ QUOTE ]
All the news is like that if you are familiar with the actual facts
Edit: And after the double disaster of the positron letters, NCSOFT no doubt muzzled him. Its not surprising that wired picked up on it was pretty much obvious.
"Thats left players sitting on pins and needles"
Um, no it hasn't. But then again, it isn't a problem for me, I don't exploit, I actually enjoy the experience itself, not power leveling.
/3, count 'em, 3 50s out of all the characters I've done in the last 4.5 years.
//Quality, not quantity.
///And altitis
////and notime(tm) in some cases.
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
[ QUOTE ]
/3, count 'em, 3 50s out of all the characters I've done in the last 4.5 years.
//Quality, not quantity.
///And altitis
////and notime(tm) in some cases.
[/ QUOTE ]
POWERLEVELER!!!! 1 level 50 in over 5 years! with 61 other characters on Live servers and 4 on Test. And he didn't make it to 50 until after GDN and ED.
Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
----------------------
Fighting The Future Trilogy
----------------------
[ QUOTE ]
"Thats left players sitting on pins and needles"
Um, no it hasn't. But then again, it isn't a problem for me, I don't exploit, I actually enjoy the experience itself, not power leveling.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, you must be some sort of saint and be better than nearly EVERYBODY else in the world. If only the world had more people like you, it would instantly turn into a fun-having utopia.
[ QUOTE ]
It may seem sad that giving the players what they want is detrimental to the players overall length of enjoyment of the game, but thats the truth, says Eric Heimburg, the lead engineer and producer on Asherons Call, and the systems designer for the upcoming Star Trek online MMO. Once you reached that top of the hill, if theres nothing left to do or see, players are likely to move on. Length of enjoyment (equals) amount of money earned, so developers have a strong incentive to keep players from gaining power and levels too quickly.
[/ QUOTE ]
This guy again? The guy works on one published MMO (AC2) and suddenly he's an industry expert because he writes one blog? Perfect example of one internet journalist using material from another from a half-credible source (this comes to mind). He's not even working on Star Trek Online, because Perpetual lost out to Cryptic, so even his credentials are mis-cited in the article. Heck, his current project is a puzzle game 
[ QUOTE ]
Free to play the game as they like, players frequently make choices that ruin the fun. Its an irony that can prove death to game publishers: Far from loving their liberty, players seem to quickly bore of the ideal games theyve created for themselves and quit early.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's literally the bottom line right there.
People, generally, only consider media biased when it contradicts or is at odds with their existing world view.
If you read that article and felt it was biased then it was not written for you.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Free to play the game as they like, players frequently make choices that ruin the fun. Its an irony that can prove death to game publishers: Far from loving their liberty, players seem to quickly bore of the ideal games theyve created for themselves and quit early.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's literally the bottom line right there.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not to derail the topic, but it occurred to me reading that article that the drive that tends to improve quality of real life is the same drive that causes this to happen. We seek the most rewards for the least effort seemingly by instinct. That's beneficial to us in the real world, but makes for a poor game.
Just something that hadn't occurred to me before.
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
[ QUOTE ]
This guy again? The guy works on one published MMO (AC2) and suddenly he's an industry expert because he writes one blog? Perfect example of one internet journalist using material from another from a half-credible source (this comes to mind). He's not even working on Star Trek Online, because Perpetual lost out to Cryptic, so even his credentials are mis-cited in the article. Heck, his current project is a puzzle game
[/ QUOTE ]
The appeal to authority isn't necessary, though. I think his point makes sense.
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
[ QUOTE ]
People, generally, only consider media biased when it contradicts or is at odds with their existing world view.
.
If you read that article and felt it was biased then it was not written for you.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what your trying to get at or what your point was. 
[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what your trying to get at or what your point was.
[/ QUOTE ]
This entire board is, arguably, not the intended target for that piece.
It was not written to persuade anyone here and the very fact that it smacked of pure bias to Skarmory and others indicates that there is no use discussing this here.
My point, as obfuscated by lack of information as it was, was that there's no point discussing this here. It would be, largely, an exercise in reaffirming our membership in this society whilst we "talk [censored]" about the man who wrote the article and the article itself.
That being said, this thread might persist if people make posts that are not designed to reaffirm their position within our society and people who feel that their identity (at least here) is defined by this society take issue with said posts.
[ QUOTE ]
Not to derail the topic, but it occurred to me reading that article that the drive that tends to improve quality of real life is the same drive that causes this to happen. We seek the most rewards for the least effort seemingly by instinct. That's beneficial to us in the real world, but makes for a poor game.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not always beneficial to us in the real world either unfortunately. It is inherent to nature, human or otherwise. That does not mean that it is always a good thing. Too rich of a reward for too little effort leads to corruption and corrosion.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not to derail the topic, but it occurred to me reading that article that the drive that tends to improve quality of real life is the same drive that causes this to happen. We seek the most rewards for the least effort seemingly by instinct. That's beneficial to us in the real world, but makes for a poor game.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not always beneficial to us in the real world either unfortunately. It is inherent to nature, human or otherwise. That does not mean that it is always a good thing. Too rich of a reward for too little effort leads to corruption and corrosion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hunh ?? Or O'Rly ?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Free to play the game as they like, players frequently make choices that ruin the fun. Its an irony that can prove death to game publishers: Far from loving their liberty, players seem to quickly bore of the ideal games theyve created for themselves and quit early.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's literally the bottom line right there.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not to derail the topic, but it occurred to me reading that article that the drive that tends to improve quality of real life is the same drive that causes this to happen. We seek the most rewards for the least effort seemingly by instinct. That's beneficial to us in the real world, but makes for a poor game.
Just something that hadn't occurred to me before.
[/ QUOTE ]
It actually makes for a pretty good game.
[ QUOTE ]
It's not always beneficial to us in the real world either unfortunately. It is inherent to nature, human or otherwise. That does not mean that it is always a good thing. Too rich of a reward for too little effort leads to corruption and corrosion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, but remember: When you make statements like this you are deciding rather arbitrarily and assigning your own metric by which to judge.
[ QUOTE ]
My point, as obfuscated by lack of information as it was, was that there's no point discussing this here.
[/ QUOTE ]
After your followup, I still have no idea what your point was. Are you saying there's no benefit to be had from discussing anything, because everything is relative and no one has the same views? I feel like you're trying to turn the thread into a sophomoric essay for some hybrid journalism/philosophy class.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
[ QUOTE ]
The appeal to authority isn't necessary, though. I think his point makes sense.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree. While I follow all the logic in the article, most of the language used is inflammatory, and there's a glaring lack of data or hard evidence. Overall, I think the article is poorly researched, and the quotations by this particular authority are used in a crass attempt to disguise the lack of effort. So the credentials of said authority become important, because if you remove them, the article basically consists of an overly-dramatic cocktail of forum posts.
And saying there's drama on the forums is sort of like saying there's water in the ocean.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not to derail the topic, but it occurred to me reading that article that the drive that tends to improve quality of real life is the same drive that causes this to happen. We seek the most rewards for the least effort seemingly by instinct. That's beneficial to us in the real world, but makes for a poor game.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not always beneficial to us in the real world either unfortunately. It is inherent to nature, human or otherwise. That does not mean that it is always a good thing. Too rich of a reward for too little effort leads to corruption and corrosion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, it's worse than that. Too much reward given too frequently without effort ceases to be viewed as a reward. It actually creates a sense of entitlement as the person starts seeing the "reward" as something to be taken for granted and it then loses all value as a reward.
There is a reason why in games like this, rewards come quickly in the beginning (you can level from 1-5 doing normal game content in under an hour) but then come less frequent the longer you play. Psychological studies have shown that this kind of structure, frequent rewards at first that become increasingly less frequent, reinforce the reward generating behavior, where receiving rewards consistently fast has the opposite effect.
This is why having a leveling curve is vital to the survival of a game like this. If rewards come too quickly, they stop being rewards (in the psychological sense of the word), and thus cease reinforcing the game-playing behavior that encourages continued subscriptions.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
and it has been shown that rewarding behavior can actually cause people to do less of it - because they stop doing it unless they are rewarded.
Once some behavior gets xp and others do not - players usually do the behavior that is rewarded. It may be less fun - but they automatically equate a reward with being valuable.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The appeal to authority isn't necessary, though. I think his point makes sense.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree. While I follow all the logic in the article, most of the language used is inflammatory, and there's a glaring lack of data or hard evidence. Overall, I think the article is poorly researched, and the quotations by this particular authority are used in a crass attempt to disguise the lack of effort. So the credentials of said authority become important, because if you remove them, the article basically consists of an overly-dramatic cocktail of forum posts.
And saying there's drama on the forums is sort of like saying there's water in the ocean.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to agree. The author took the lazy man's method of research in order to prove his argument, one point based off of a poor reference. Although I could easily see a blogger who's worked on three or even two published MMOs as credible, this one doesn't fit the bill of expert testimony. Although I see merits in the article itself, trying to pass off Eric's blog as credible adversely erodes credibility.
[ QUOTE ]
and it has been shown that rewarding behavior can actually cause people to do less of it - because they stop doing it unless they are rewarded.
Once some behavior gets xp and others do not - players usually do the behavior that is rewarded. It may be less fun - but they automatically equate a reward with being valuable.
[/ QUOTE ]
For a time. However, if that reward is given too frequently it stops being seen as a reward and then LOSES all it's value. If you hand out millions of infamy or allow for ultra-fast leveling or whathave you, then those things being too easy to come by cease to have value as a reward and no longer reinforce behavior. Being too easy to get devalues them, the devaluing means that the behavior is no longer reinforced, and thus the person stops engaging in the behavior (in this case, stops paying for a subscription).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
|
[ QUOTE ]
It's not always beneficial to us in the real world either unfortunately. It is inherent to nature, human or otherwise. That does not mean that it is always a good thing. Too rich of a reward for too little effort leads to corruption and corrosion.
[/ QUOTE ]
what do you mean by "corrosion?"
in any case, it seems to me that the times where it's a bad thing are the rare exception rather than the rule. I don't have any data on that - it just seems logical, but correct me if I'm wrong.
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
Not sure we can be far from a player surge or what but checkout Wired Magazine article on COH. COH MA article