#178718: The Kobayashi Maru Challenge
By
Aces_High,
Posted on: 2009-05-17 14:10 in Mission Architect
So how long before someone copies this and makes it completable to say they succeeded?
oh brother
I was working on something like this as well, heh.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Does each seaman you rescue spawn 1-3 more?
Also as for feedback on the mission itself there were the odd "Thank you $Name" errors from hostages.
Plus I find it odd that you put in spawnable Hostages. I flew through the mission at the start to the end to work from there back and there are no hostages in there until you rescue the ones at the front.
The mission glowie should have some sort of text with them. Since you have it set on the longest time possible to click on them. Would be nice to be able to read something during those 15 seconds or so.
Also why are you supposed to be worrying about the crates when you are there to save lives. The bombs I understand but the crates don't make sense without any other text on them.
Other than that its only doable I think solo. Tried it on that and got further than I did when I stacked the deck in my favor.
When you have a team of heavy damage dealers with shivans and mechs and you still can't even get through the mobs let alone the hostage rescues its a little tough.
Added to that the fact that the hostages all have stockholm syndrome and run to the nearest enemy mob which then kills them leads to an easy defeat.
Did you ever manage to beat the mission yourself?
Also I would change the mission description to let folks know that far from being an non easy task its meant to be unbeatable.
That at least would let folks that arn't Trekkies know that its meant to be just a challenge but not something to be bested. And that debt is more than likely to happen.
You may wish to rename this arc before you get reported for content and have it banned for Copyright violation.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
BungeeBall:
I'll look at the $name text and add in text for the glowies.
Steele_Magnolia:
If it ever was copyrighted to begin with, it's not any more.
SUNY's Maritime College uses the name in some of its Bridge Simulations. Duke Nukem 3D used the name for a ship, as well. It was also used as the name of a ship in the 1998 Godzilla film.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
I normally shy away from challenge missions, but this concept is too cool too pass up.
I tried it and failed. Didn't rate it, not because I didn't like it, but because I haven't decided yet how I should measure the quality of a challenge arc, especially an odd fish like this one whose whole point is to be unbeatable.
Is there an option to program in my own stealth subroutine that lets me win while sitting there munching on an apple? 
I'll play it again and give it another shot before I render my final verdict -- probably on a lower challenge level setting.
Does each seaman you rescue spawn more?
And have you ever beaten the mission yourself Circuit?
I'd recommend locking the spawn with a soloist, then bringing in a team. Stealth to the back, ATT everyone in, have 3 guys go forward and start rescuing hostages (should be easy with everything locked to a single-player spawn), then have another 3 when more hostages spawn, then the last 2. Assuming they ever stop spawning, break up and hit the glowies.
Let me know how it works if you try it, I don't have the patience to deal with 13-year-old GMs any more.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Thought of that but you need to clear the map of everything that moves too since the hostages that spawn run towards the mobs and then are attached to them. Even though the mobs start killing them.
So it really makes the mission almost a Defeat All. Plus you have to account for the ambushes that spawn when you free a hostage to start with.
And the fact that alot of the mobs use AoEs that hurt the hostages and you can fail lots of times just by trying to lead them out through the maze.
The missions only 15 minutes to start with and you need at least one minute of that to click on the pointless glowies. Thats if you don't get interupted at all during them. But with the insane amount of mobs in there its almost a certanity that you will at least once.
Not saying that its an impossible mission (unless the amount of spawnable hostages is just designed to make it that way by eating up the time ) but I don't think I'll try again to beat it.
Its a challenge thats for sure but its also not what I would call fun.
So it really makes the mission almost a Defeat All. Plus you have to account for the ambushes that spawn when you free a hostage to start with.
For an eight-man team against a one-man spawn that shouldn't be too hard.
For bonus points, send in a level 1 first, then bring in seven 50s.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
[ QUOTE ]
If it ever was copyrighted to begin with, it's not any more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well actually, if you go to the U.S.Copyright Office search page: http://www.copyright.gov/records/
you'll see that the Kobayashi Maru story title is copyrighted by CBS Studios Inc.
I'd recommend that you remove or retitle this story-arc before it gets reported and you lose that slot to a locked mission.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it ever was copyrighted to begin with, it's not any more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well actually, if you go to the U.S.Copyright Office search page: http://www.copyright.gov/records/
you'll see that the Kobayashi Maru story title is copyrighted by CBS Studios Inc.
I'd recommend that you remove or retitle this story-arc before it gets reported and you lose that slot to a locked mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't worry about it too much. The dev's are big enough nerds to appreciate the reference, and I seriously doubt any CBS employees are combing this game for their precious copyrights.
For the devs, it's one thing. They can check with legal to see what passes for a "safe" reference and what doesn't before it goes through. For the players, it's something else. They may not want to take that chance.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it ever was copyrighted to begin with, it's not any more.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well actually, if you go to the U.S.Copyright Office search page: http://www.copyright.gov/records/
you'll see that the Kobayashi Maru story title is copyrighted by CBS Studios Inc.
I'd recommend that you remove or retitle this story-arc before it gets reported and you lose that slot to a locked mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't worry about it too much. The dev's are big enough nerds to appreciate the reference, and I seriously doubt any CBS employees are combing this game for their precious copyrights.
[/ QUOTE ]
If I run across a copyright/trademark violation I report it. I've reported for content once, for an arc that was full of DC and Marvel characters and actually had "Marvel" in the title. The game doesn't need another lawsuit.
If you don't want to change it, then don't, but don't be surprised or say you weren't warned when the arc is pulled. Someone is eventually going to report it. The more the arc is played, the more likely that is to happen.
Edit/PS: I'm a Trekkie and nerd. I would probably enjoy the arc. If you wrote something like this for my pen and paper RPG group it would be a blast, however in this game environment you're publishing and making this a permanent part of a game that is earning revenue. That's a totally different proposition for liability reasons.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
You cannot copyright a name.
It is, in fact, impossible. You cannot trademark a name. (You *can* trademark an image + name combination however)
As long as it uses CoH and your own personal stuff, and no Star Trek IP, you are legally fine. (Whether the GMs will see it that way is another story; but from a legal standpoint, it's not a problem)
What you CAN Copyright:
A Name + Story = Ie: The whole package.
Example - You could legally write a story called Weapon X. You could NOT legally write a story called Weapon X and then involve a claw wielding regenerating mutant.
Trademark:
Murkier, but as far as being in the same industry my understanding is this:
You can have a claw wielding regenerating mutant.
You can use the name Wolverine.
You can use blue and yellow tights.
You cannot combine these things.
So for it to be a trademark issue you'd need the title AND image - which you do not have.
Again, GMs can be much harsher than the law allows for; but from a legal standpoint it is not likely to be a problem.
I do wish people would at least educate themselves a bit on copyright law though - it's not cut and dry no; but it's far too easy to let oneself believe what the corporations say rather than what the law actually says, which prevents perfectly reasonable name usages/character concepts.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
[ QUOTE ]
So it really makes the mission almost a Defeat All. Plus you have to account for the ambushes that spawn when you free a hostage to start with.
For an eight-man team against a one-man spawn that shouldn't be too hard.
For bonus points, send in a level 1 first, then bring in seven 50s.
[/ QUOTE ]
With the size of the map, the ambushes that spawn, the glowies with the long click time and the fact you have to walk each hostage out the door personally I think even an 8 man team on a one man map would be hard.
Plus by the time you've entered it solo, spawned the map and then invited everyone in you've probably wasted at least a minute already.
[ QUOTE ]
You cannot copyright a name.
It is, in fact, impossible. You cannot trademark a name. (You *can* trademark an image + name combination however)
As long as it uses CoH and your own personal stuff, and no Star Trek IP, you are legally fine. (Whether the GMs will see it that way is another story; but from a legal standpoint, it's not a problem)
What you CAN Copyright:
A Name + Story = Ie: The whole package.
[/ QUOTE ]The Kobayashi Maru that is copyrighted by CBS Studios Inc. is a story about a ship that is an unwinnable scenario. The Kobayashi Maru Challenge #178718 is a story set on a ship that is an unwinnable scenario. That's awfully close to me, and copyright infringement or not, I'm betting that the customer service guy will error on the safe side and lock the story.
Especially given Paramount's well-known tendancy to sue people infringing on their franchise. Especially since in my petition I'm going to include a direct link to the US Copyright Office's page showing that this title is copyrighted.
I'm busy now and won't be logging on for a few more hours though.
Several significant differences exist however:
1) Space ship vs waterborn ship
2) Star Trek IP vs CoH IP used
3) Starship Combat vs Infantry Combat
etc...
It resembles it in the same way a cat named Snickers resembles a dog named Snickers - they're both 4 legged mammals that share the name Snickers.
Think of it like this:
If the above were illegal by copyright, so would any fantasy novel which involved an Evil Overlord and an Artifact of Doom due to resemblences to Lord of the Rings. Yes, you can see the inspiration clear as day - but they aren't an attempt to clone the work or rip it off.
As for the Copyright page:
Here, from their FAQ -
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html#band
How do I copyright a name, title, slogan or logo?
Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark.
The work in total is copyrighted of course. (You don't even have to register it to have a copyright - once an original work is complete, it's covered; though to bring a lawsuit you pretty much have to register to have a chance at winning)
But the title is not.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
quick Q.
Speaking of near unbeatable missions. Has anyone ever beaten the generator mission in RWZ? I haven't ... but i have only tried on a medium sized teams.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
I'd recommend you change the title and the name of the ship in the story. More than likely, a legal challenge (should one occur, but I'm betting it never would) would *not* hold up in this case, but the game's GMs will err on the side of caution in nearly every case. It doesn't matter if you've violated no copyright or trademark laws; all that matters is the discretion of whatever GM gets the petition against you.
Changing the name would not take away from the mission at all (except that you wouldn't be so emphatically evoking the spirit of what we all know you're trying to evoke), and would allow the mission to remain published and playable.
Blah, Hellguard is right on that count.
Sorry for taking up so much of this thread btw <x.x>; Copyright makes me grumpy (largely because of the way large companies misuse it in relation to small companies and individuals - they scare people into thinking copyright does stuff that it doesn't; the idea of copyright is great, it just gets twisted a lot)
Err... Long story short - yes, the GMs can, and likely will act more harshly than is legally necessary; I'm just a very bitter person in this area <x.x>;
I'll shaddup <x.x>
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
As a suggestion, to make it a homage and more likely to survive if you're deadset on it perhaps you could change it the Mobayishi Karu. Star Trek fans will still get the reference and it's not quite so egregious.
Whether a GM would see it that way is another matter, I can't read their minds. I just know I see Hulk and Wolverine names genericed regardless of the costume, and costume replicas (if petitioned) regardless of name reset to default. They are very strict and conservative when it comes to anything legal.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
Kobyashi Maru is a japanese term for "Little Wooden Boat".
Can't copyright that.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
The Kobayashi Maru
ARC ID: 178718
Length: Short (1 timed mission).
Morality: Heroic
Genre: Simulation, Challenge
Difficulty: Difficult
Solo Friendly: No
Description: This is a Longbow training simulation. A merchant ship--the Kobayashi Maru--has sent a distress call to Paragon City, then went radio silent. Longbow Officers want you to find out what's happened to that ship.
Can you succeed?
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel