#178718: The Kobayashi Maru Challenge
By
Aces_High,
Posted on: 2009-05-17 14:10 in Mission Architect
While I realize that everyone on the internet is an attorney, I don't care what you think is true. What you believe to be true does not matter.
If you go to the United States Copyright Office: http://cocatalog.loc.gov/
If you type in the words Kobayashi Maru and then hit the 'Return' key on your keyboard, you will find that Kobayashi Maru is copyrighted.
Whether or not you believe that the term can be copyrighted does not matter. It is copyrighted. Ok?
It's not copyrighted as a NAME though, only as a title of a work!
So touche.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
The GMs will decide. Our opinions and that of the Copyright Office, Lawyers, and the squirrel next door don't matter.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
They do and they don't actually - sometimes you can convince a GM to undo a name change if you pound them over the head with the law.
Other times nothing you say will change their mind no matter how logical.
However it is better to be educated than not; you don't have to be a copyright lawyer to understand the basics.
@AcesHigh - Just an FYI -click on those links, each one will tell you what is copyrighted under that title (I looked this up myself earlier, but was too tired/annoyed with myself to explain):
1 - Text - which means the body of a text.
2 - Music Recording/Lyrics
3 - Text adaptation (I'm going to assume this means that it's a text adaptation of an episode to a print format; but it could go other ways)
4 - Star Trek episode (Unless there's another meaning to "Star Trek 47"; either way, still definitely not the title.)
5 - Same as above - not sure why it's listed twice.
None of those claim title copyright at all. Now Trademark, if it were part of a logo could happen. But like I said - you can't copyright a title. Ask the Copyright office yourself if you feel up to the adventure.
A GM is more likely to crack down because they aren't copyright lawyers either, and have a corporate policy that, from the experience I've seen others have of it, is fairly vague. (I've never had anything get genericed myself; but I have had friends do so - I use proper names mostly so I suspect that's the reason. Rather hard to generic "Yumii" when there are probably hundreds of characters with the name, none of whom are like mine.)
I suspect GMs are looking at a "Shoot First, Ask Questions Later" policy since in many cases, they really are copyright violations, and the exceptions are just that, exceptions.
This does not mean you cannot appeal the decision to someone higher up however. Heck it's necessary to appeal in some situations because sometimes your character predates the supposed violation. (Usually this is when you have a character with a name similar or identical to something added later in CoH - yes, you can be genericed for stuff that's added after the fact; but sometimes you can get the name back since the date on the character is older; still, the longer this game exists, more outside sources will also have things that have come after some of our characters, and such)
A shorter way of saying everything I've meant in the thread is:
No, I'm not a copyright lawyer. Neither are the GMs who are enforcing these rules. Knowing the basics of copyright law isn't too difficult; the more complex stuff is, and music copyright is confusing as hell from what I've seen, but the bottom basic "What can I copyright? What can't I copyright? How do they interact?" stuff is easy enough, and good knowledge to have even outside of the game for anyone who does anything creative in their time.
It won't prevent a genericing to know this of course, but it gives you a chance to appeal; and if it's a name you were quite attached to it can be worth fighting for.
... feels much better expressing information while chill <. .>; sorry again for being snappish earlier - trying to help but it's a frustrating thing for me because so few people believe they can understand the law without years of law school; when it's really not much different (on the base level of course) from "Do not drive when the light is red. Don't hit pedestrians. If you DO hit a pedestrian, don't run off."
Sorry for being a pest about this, but it's too important to just shut up and say "Okay, I'll avoid anything that's ever been used before" - because if you start looking it up, a positively ENORMOUS number of minor characters exist in the major comics universes - and that's not including more minor companies and even webcomics (which are in fact still copyrighted).
Needless to say if they enforce the rule based solely on name - be it for character or mission arc - a whole lot of people who had no idea their name wasn't original (and *nothing* is original - I'm sure random patterns of letters have shown up as dragon names in published material before) would be in trouble.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
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No, I'm not a copyright lawyer.
[/ QUOTE ]Which is why you should just stop. You're posting about something that you know nothing about. And you're wrong.
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Needless to say if they enforce the rule based solely on name - be it for character or mission arc - a whole lot of people who had no idea their name wasn't original (and *nothing* is original - I'm sure random patterns of letters have shown up as dragon names in published material before) would be in trouble.
[/ QUOTE ]For the third time now, at no point have I ever said that the name Kobayashi Maru was copyrighted.
What I did say was that the story Kobayashi Maru - which is about a ship that sends out a distress signal and then puts the stars into a no-win scenario - is copyrighted. Let there be no mistake on this, that story is copyrighted. THIS IS A FACT Please stop trying to dispute this.
The story that Circuit Boy wrote is basically the same thing. Several of us have reported it now, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the GMs rule. Either way I'm done with this thread, and with people that can't admit that they're wrong when concrete proof has been waved right under their noses.
*sigh*
Except as I pointed out there's an enormous difference between the two. Space Ship, Star Trek IP Ship to ship combat, etc... A vaguely similar situation and a title do not a violation make.
If you could legally consider that a copyright violation, then you could also consider most fantasy novels a copyright violation of Tolkien. But you can't now can you? Otherwise fantasy novels would have stopped being made long, long ago.
I will however stop; because I've said my piece - but it's not because my opinions are somehow invalidated by lack of a degree. If I were arguing particularly high end copyright law? Yeah, that would be a problem; but as I said, all of this stuff is on the official website. It's the kind of bottom basic stuff you can learn in the same way you can learn that icing an injury can be useful, even though you aren't a doctor.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
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For an eight-man team against a one-man spawn that shouldn't be too hard.
*
For bonus points, send in a level 1 first, then bring in seven 50s. 
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Well, even James T. Kirk had to cheat to beat this challenge, so I guess this can be considered acceptable... 
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
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For an eight-man team against a one-man spawn that shouldn't be too hard.
*
For bonus points, send in a level 1 first, then bring in seven 50s.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, even James T. Kirk had to cheat to beat this challenge, so I guess this can be considered acceptable...
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Absolutely acceptable.
Also, I think it would work.
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No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
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If you could legally consider that a copyright violation, then you could also consider most fantasy novels a copyright violation of Tolkien. But you can't now can you?
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If you wrote a fantasy story about an evil ring that had to be destroyed in a volcano, and named it "The Lord of the Rings", I'm betting that would get squashed. Which is basically what we're talking about.
To the OP: You could name the story "Little Wooden Boat".
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
You never did answer me, did you ever beat the mission yourself?
And do the hostage rescues keep spawning more hostages?
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Kobyashi Maru is a japanese term for "Little Wooden Boat".
Can't copyright that.
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Again, it does not matter what can and can't be "copyrighted" or "trademarked." What matters is what a GM will decide when they review the petitions about this arc. The OP would surely win his "case" in a court of law, but the court he'll have to face is much, much harsher than that.