City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

So how do you feel about "Grammar Elitist"

10100101

By 10100101,
Posted on: 2009-05-15 10:11 in Mission Architect

 

Posted

As far as grammar and spelling go, it has to be pretty bad before I use that as a reason to give a -1 star to a mission (I start my grading at 5 and work my way back from there due to flaws). In fact, I don't think I have ever down rated a mission due to grammar or spell.

A friend asked me to run their arc and there was a lot of Engrish going on. I didn't know if it was intentional or not, so I pointed it out as such. But I did not go into details.

We aren't getting paid. As long as in the intent is there, I give an arc the benefit of the doubt.

Everyone has those things that "pushes their buttons". So I can see this with the so-called "Grammar Elitists".

I know mine is "Kill Them All"s. That's a -1 star from the get go ... and that's if I run the arc. I try to avoid those arcs from the get go - so most of the time I'm not rating them at any rate. Sometimes I'm too lazy to check the info before I pick the arc and then I just dread it when I run into that "Kill Them all".

If these "Grammar Elitists" catch grammar or spelling issues in the "promo blurb" for the mission, maybe they should just not run it?

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I am glad when someone points out a spelling error in my arc, I thank them for it. I'll edit it as many times as necessary to get it right.

If there are only a few minor errors in an arc I won't down rate it, obviously the person took the time to work on it and just overlooked something. No big deal.

On the other hand, if it looks like a 10 year old wrote it without a spell check (even if one did) I will. Daddy should help him use spell check. When someone publishes, they are saying "This is ready to be played and is good." If it isn't, regardless of the reason, it should be rated accordingly. The MA is there for players to publish... and for other players to find arcs they like. The ratings are a reference, not a feel good "everyone passes" system.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. I want people to let me know if I have a typo in my arc, especially if it's in the descriptions, contact dialogue or clues. If it's in character dialogue, then it might be slang usage, etc., that's meant to sound like conversation. If there's an actual misspelling/grammatical error, even in dialogue, I would still rather have someone tell me about it so I can fix it if it's a real oops.

If I only find a few mistakes in an arc, I won't let it affect my rating, as long as the mission is good otherwise. If absolutely all of it is written poorly, then I will probably mark it down a star, but I will also send feedback to let them know why so they can clean it up. If they really don't care enough to bother, then I won't feel badly about giving it a lower rating for it.

No AV/EBs Deal with The Devil's Pawn-207266 Slash DeMento and the Stolen Weapons-100045 Meet the Demon Spawn-151099 Feedback

 

Posted

I hate the following:

"There were some typos, you should fix those"

OTOH, I LOVE the Following:

"Mission 5 debriefing: Teh should be The. Mission 4 Objective says 'Stompp Synpse Face In' should be "Stomp Synapse's face In'"


Generic "There were typos" is useless. Specific grammar feedback is priceless.

 

Posted

I dread posting in this thread because I know I will have a grammar error somewhere, but here it goes anyway.

I think people also need to remember that the character limit may cause some authors to be a little less strict than they would like. When I run up against the character limit, and cannot edit without losing the feel of the story, I will ocassionally drop some apostrophes ("dont" instead of "don't") to make it all fit. I know that does not account for serious offenders but can account for a lot of small errors that people should not have their ratings penalized for.

I have not been hit with the grammar bat yet but my stuff only has around 15 plays so far. So if anyone is looking for grammar mistakes to smack down try:

Levantera's Lost Stuff (Vol. 1 & 2)

Sorry, I do not have the arc #'s. I am at work and was not prepared for a shameless plug. Just search TMARC for authors from Triumph and hack away at my grammar.

The Revenants and Vengeance Imperium-Triumph, Champion & now flavoring Justice!

Tanker Tuesdays & Brutal Thursdays. If you like fun, look'em up!

Shhh! Rangle is plotting.

 

Posted

I have edited my published arc probably 40 times.

From minor typo fixes that have been reported - to removing a mission and re-doing major plot points based on feedback.

I want my arc to be great - and I'm willing to put in the effort do to that.

 

Posted

I have played arcs so rife with grammatical, punctuation, and spelling errors that I simply can't stomach them. Unless the arc is REALLY freakin' awesome, this is a recipe for 'get someone to edit/spellcheck this' and a 0 rating.

I just tried an arc that was so bad, in combination with a tiresome first mission, that I quit right there, 0 starred it.

Presentation is everything. It doesn't have to be perfect, but if you aren't going to bother making the thing readable, why should I be bothered to wade through it?

On the flip side, it's one consideration. There have been several 5 stars I've given out where there were grammatical or spelling errors. Just, you know, not every freakin' sentence.

Amusingly, I've had at least one feedback saying that my third arc had a bunch of grammatical mistakes. Looking over it... I'd have to say I disagree with the feedback. I THINK it's some confusion over a term for a nationality (something like 'Basque'), but I'm not sure.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I dread posting in this thread because I know I will have a grammar error somewhere, but here it goes anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put Plato, Immanuel Kant, and Arthur Schopenhauer in one of my arcs. If there are spelling or grammar solecisms in there I expect to hear about 'em.


<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

Posted

I have had people complain about dialog a few times. But it is mostly dialect, ie the use of "ain't", "gonna", "fixin' to", and "ya'll". I guess because I don't use "yous guys" they don't like it.

People don't normally speak grammatically correct. Which to me give more life to a character.

@Blood Beret(2)Twitter
I am a bad speeler, use poorer grammar, and am a frequent typoist.
MA ArcID: 1197
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill

 

Posted

While I would comment to inform the author, it would be intended as helpful. I don't think I would downgrade the arc unless it was so bad as to effect playability and obvious not in 'character'.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I have had people complain about dialog a few times. But it is mostly dialect, ie the use of "ain't", "gonna", "fixin' to", and "ya'll". I guess because I don't use "yous guys" they don't like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just point them to the entry on "Y'" in the OED.

Of course your syntax should be solid before you attempt to type with a dialect and, looking at your post, I can see why people might take issue with your use thereof.

 

Posted

Having pretty terrible grammar and spelling myself, your arc has to be particulourly heinous for me to grade it down for grammar and/or spelling. I have done it though on the most aggregious offenders.

Luckily I have a wife who's a teacher, and proofreads my stuff for me.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Having pretty terrible grammar and spelling myself, your arc has to be particulourly heinous for me to grade it down for grammar and/or spelling. I have done it though on the most aggregious offenders.

Luckily I have a wife who's a teacher, and proofreads my stuff for me.

[/ QUOTE ]
I use MS Word, but sometime I and it miss things.

@Blood Beret(2)Twitter
I am a bad speeler, use poorer grammar, and am a frequent typoist.
MA ArcID: 1197
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]

I use MS Word, but sometime I and it miss things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Until someone invents an amazing artificial intelligence that can understand syntax, spellcheckers will always miss homonyms -- as demonstrated in not one, but TWO versions of Ode to Spellcheckers.

(And yes, you'll probably shudder at those -- consider yourselves warned. )

"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner

30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04

 

Posted

If I only catch a couple in an otherwise good story, I don't care. If they're numerous, I'd probably mention it and maybe drop a star. If the story didn't do anything for me (or didn't exist in the first place), I might even drop it two. The writing in the MA stories has to really carry the whole thing for me.

On my own arcs, I proofread endlessly and have resorted to spell checking everything with an online spell checker (I don't have Word) by cutting and pasting it on the online page then re-pasting the fixed text when I find errors.

 

Posted

[QR-ish]
Excessively bad spelling, punctuation or grammar loses stars from me, no matter the reason or excuse. The odd typographical error or non-repeated mispelling (e.g., spell "shield" as "sheild" once, but correctly every other time) do not count. I don't give feedback about it, though.

edit: Regarding the thread title, it's hardly elitist to expect decent use of the language.

 

Posted

&lt;qr&gt;

"Elitist?"

If it's one or two things, I'll mention them but not have it affect the rating at all (and let them know that.) ef its' threwowt teh ark, yew hed buttur belif eym rayteng et daun. (Barring those that are done intentionally, which tend to be noted or obvious - like Freakshow.)

 

Posted

If I am following a story arc I do not like to have to wade through bad spelling or wonky grammer. I do understand that dialogue will not always conform to these rules, however.

 

Posted

Generally I won't lower my rating for one or two typos or spelling errors. I have on occasion knocked a star off for arcs that were absolutely riddled with them.

I'll admit that I have sometimes said something along the lines of "You made several spelling errors" without pointing them out specifically. This is due in part to lack of space in the comments field, but if an arc has more than just a few, I figure if the author cares enough, they'll do the necessary proofreading on their own. That said, if the errors aren't absolutely overwhelming I'll usually make notes of them as I go, so the author can always contact me if they want specifics.

In dialogue of course, I know people in general don't use textbook grammar (in fact, if they did, I'd probably have to call them on that), so I'm not too concerned about sentence structure in the like on that. I will point out missing commas and other punctuation, since in speech even the most ungrammatical of individuals uses the pauses and intonations they represent. The one time I really became a stickler for it was when the contact was explicitly portrayed as a strict grammarian. In that instance, I happily pointed out every dangling participle and end-of-sentence preposition I came across.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
&lt;qr&gt;

I always give grammar feedback if I feel the arc will benefit from it, and I try to be as specific as possible (though sometimes it's difficult with the character limit on the feedback field).

But I don't always downrate for grammar issues. I used to be more of a perfectionist, being used to printed materials, but I reset my expectations after some experiences with typos and such getting into the MA due mainly to its weirdly laggy editing behavior.

Only if the grammar/spelling issues are enormously distracting do I actively downrate. I do up-rate for well-formed turns of phrase or clever voicing, but it's possible to earn a 5 from me without those in play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said, Keep. This pretty much says it all for me.

 

Posted

Personally, I want my stuff to be razor sharp with perfect spelling and grammar. I would love getting this kind of feedback.

But I don't expect everyone to have the same standards.

When I do see a perfectionistic arc, I usually enjoy playing it and it makes me hold the author in higher esteem. I might go so far as to send corrections, but I don't think I've ever had to.

When I see an arc with sloppy spelling and grammar, I generally take it in stride. If the 'feel' of the arc is still fun, I still play it, enjoy it, and rate it highly. I accept the fact that some people aren't perfectly educated but still want to tell a good story.

I will rate a fun arc with bad spelling higher than a tedious arc with impeccable text.

Of course, an arc with perfect text will also be constructed with care in many other ways, so a well crafted arc description to me is an indicator of an arc worth trying. I tend to skim past arcs with poor English in the descriptions.

I know that some of my personal friends are grammar nazis and want their stuff to be perfect, too - so when going through their arcs I keep a Notepad window open to compile corrections, same as I do when testing my own arcs.

If anyone plays either of my published arcs (@Zombra), please feel free to do the same and PM me the results. A note saying "Your English usage is utterly above reproach" is acceptable as well

 

Posted

I welcome it as long as the person correcting my grammar isn't being nasty about the grammatical errors. That said, one enemy name is misspelled on purpose but no one has said anything about it.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
But when someone tells me they rated my arc lower because I had a Boss name spelled with a ' in it and it shouldn't be, as well as I had "to" instead of too, but they loved the story, I think that is going way overboard.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might have run into an exasperated rater.

Nowadays, I rarely give feedback because it seems like the same mistakes are being made by seemingly every arc I encounter. Most common is the 'to'/'too' one but simple typos and grammatical errors ('teh', 'adn', 'Ritki', 'Cable'/'Cabel', 'Freakshew' (though I assumed the writer was Ed Sullivan ), 'their'/'there', 'your'/'you're', etc) annoy me when they're made repeatedly by a wide variety of writers. It's like Jeez, is everyone a lazy writer?!?

@Remianen / @Remianen Too

Sig by RPVisions