Badge Issues tangent thread - Crey Pistol

I asked Snow Globe if he thought this should have a thread, and he told me to go ahead and start it.

Basically, the accolade power the Crey CBX-9 Pistol (Stolen Immobilizer Ray for villains) is awful. It's basically Chilblain, a level 1 power for Blasters, Controllers, and Dominators, but slotted for damage. Unfortunately, it has the same 25-minute recharge as other accolade clicks, which is frankly ridiculous because it's nowhere near as potent as them.

Some people will tell you that it's just fine as it is. Why they do that is beyond me, since it's not fine, it's virtually useless as it is. It's not a powerful attack, doing less damage than the Veteran attacks (even the 54 month reward versions which don't give bonuses based on origin), and immobilize is not a very effective control. It's, in fact, the only immobilize power which isn't permanent on even-cons, even the AoE ones. It's a really disappointing accolade, and you're not going to get it by accident, you have to actively try to get it.

Basically, the recharge should be about 30 seconds at most, not 25 minutes.

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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

I'll go with boosting it's accuracy, damage and immob magnitude/duration, but then 30 seconds might make it seem a bit overpowered also.. I already think the Staff and other "temp powers" recharge too quickly.

I don't think they should be included in the regular "attack-chains" like many people do, but instead be a bonus you get to use every now and then. 60 seconds for any of them would still give them a decent benefit to have, without turning your regular attack-chains into temp-power chains. lol

Either way, 25 minutes is ridiculous, and should be changed.. and buffing the power (even a little) would be nice as well.

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Once I got this, I always kinda wondered why the power exists. I don't tend to use it... especially on my controller. A buff to this power would be great.

/signed

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I've gotten this accolade on several of my characters since I started playing this in 2004. I have maybe used this power five times.

If anything, I use it for screenshots.

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"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21

Guide to Base Teleporters

I do not consider the Crey Pistol an attack, or even an immobilize, so much as I consider it a weapon-based emote or amusing coup-de-gras to land the killing blow on an archvillain by plinking it with the ice beam. It has truly negligible utility in just about any conceivable scenario. I still like it, because the accolade has a cool name, the pistol looks good, and it adds to my vast collection of temp-power weaponry.

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Rule number six of an empathy defender is NEVER underestimate a blaster's ability to die. I don't care if he has CM, Fort, both RAs, bubbles (both FF and Sonic), and is fighting next to a Storm defender with hurricane on. If there is a way to die in that situation, the blaster will find it.

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I'll go with boosting it's accuracy, damage and immob magnitude/duration, but then 30 seconds might make it seem a bit overpowered also.. I already think the Staff and other "temp powers" recharge too quickly.

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30 seconds would not be overpowered; even on a Controller that wouldn't make the immobilize perma on even-cons, and even the longest recharging vet attack powers have recharges of 16 seconds.

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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

On a side note, it's pseudo-useful in pvp as a quick way to immob a jumping target as a team can catch up to the enemy.

But no, I agree it's useless in a global sense.

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Champion/Freedom Servers
@Orion Zidane
@Orion Zidane2

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I asked Snow Globe if he thought this should have a thread, and he told me to go ahead and start it.

Basically, the accolade power the Crey CBX-9 Pistol (Stolen Immobilizer Ray for villains) is awful. It's basically Chilblain, a level 1 power for Blasters, Controllers, and Dominators, but slotted for damage. Unfortunately, it has the same 25-minute recharge as other accolade clicks, which is frankly ridiculous because it's nowhere near as potent as them.

Some people will tell you that it's just fine as it is. Why they do that is beyond me, since it's not fine, it's virtually useless as it is. It's not a powerful attack, doing less damage than the Veteran attacks (even the 54 month reward versions which don't give bonuses based on origin), and immobilize is not a very effective control. It's, in fact, the only immobilize power which isn't permanent on even-cons, even the AoE ones. It's a really disappointing accolade, and you're not going to get it by accident, you have to actively try to get it.

Basically, the recharge should be about 30 seconds at most, not 25 minutes.

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Yes.

(Maybe this is another "oh, look at that extra zero" thing. )

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(QR)

I agree this is a novelty at best.

Look at the other click powers. Insane amounts of Def or Recharge for 30 seconds.
This power should compare. Once every 25 minutes you should have an insanely powerful hold/immobilize.

what would deserve that description? Mag 4 Hold for 30 seconds, perhaps. Still may be seen as weaker than other powers because of the limit to one target, but drawing lots of aggro with an AOE may still seem pretty useless.

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I'll go with boosting it's accuracy, damage and immob magnitude/duration, but then 30 seconds might make it seem a bit overpowered also.. I already think the Staff and other "temp powers" recharge too quickly.

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30 seconds would not be overpowered; even on a Controller that wouldn't make the immobilize perma on even-cons, and even the longest recharging vet attack powers have recharges of 16 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ] I wasn't saying it would be overpowered as a general power.. but that it would be overpowered as a "temp power". What happens if even half of a full team starts spamming the power over and over again? I don't think that's the intended use of a "temp power".

Like I said.. I already think the Nemesis Staff and Sands of Mu, and other "temp powers" recharge too quickly.. Adding even more short-recharge attack powers that anybody can get, we'll eventually end up with players who use the temp powers more than their Primary attacks. What's the point of having ATs? We can all be Temps! lol

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I do not consider the Crey Pistol an attack, or even an immobilize, so much as I consider it a weapon-based emote or amusing coup-de-gras to land the killing blow on an archvillain by plinking it with the ice beam. It has truly negligible utility in just about any conceivable scenario. I still like it, because the accolade has a cool name, the pistol looks good, and it adds to my vast collection of temp-power weaponry.

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The only time I ever click this power, like Doc K, is when I'm showing off my arsenal of temp weapons.

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Like I said.. I already think the Nemesis Staff and Sands of Mu, and other "temp powers" recharge too quickly.. Adding even more short-recharge attack powers that anybody can get, we'll eventually end up with players who use the temp powers more than their Primary attacks. What's the point of having ATs? We can all be Temps! lol

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To me, there's a big difference between a Temp Power and an Accolade.

Temps should be light+quick.
Accolades should be once-in-a-long-while "I'm Awesome!!!" buttons.

Consider the origin powers, those are great temps. (Though really should be "inherants", but that's another discussion.)
Cryonite Armor is 11% defense to 2 types, Demonic is 50% to almost all types.
I'm not sure if the Nem Staff should be changed to Accolade levels, though maybe it does a bit too much damage for a temp.

So what is really REALLY awesome for a Crey gun? It's hard to equate it to a shield that protects you from many mobs, or HP that buff you in general.

now I'd love a power that completely shuts down the opponents, possibly in situations of dire need. like...
Targeted AOE, 30 seconds Immobilize, 30 seconds Hold (Mag 3), 30 seconds Placate (after .5 second delay).
That would be an awesome level of "you there, yes, you, the whole mob... FREEZE!"

edit: maybe if the above is too much kick, it could be Sleep instead of Hold? The placate fixes it so you don't shoot yourself in the foot with an AOE against certain anti-mez mobs, or (in the case of having the power do sleep) with certain teammates.

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I'll go with boosting it's accuracy, damage and immob magnitude/duration, but then 30 seconds might make it seem a bit overpowered also.. I already think the Staff and other "temp powers" recharge too quickly.

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30 seconds would not be overpowered; even on a Controller that wouldn't make the immobilize perma on even-cons, and even the longest recharging vet attack powers have recharges of 16 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ] I wasn't saying it would be overpowered as a general power.. but that it would be overpowered as a "temp power". What happens if even half of a full team starts spamming the power over and over again? I don't think that's the intended use of a "temp power".

Like I said.. I already think the Nemesis Staff and Sands of Mu, and other "temp powers" recharge too quickly.. Adding even more short-recharge attack powers that anybody can get, we'll eventually end up with players who use the temp powers more than their Primary attacks. What's the point of having ATs? We can all be Temps! lol

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Id agree if the temp was actually powerful. How many blasters do you see spamming ring of fire on a full teams? Its next to worthless unless you solo. Now take that same power and change the recharge from 3 seconds to 30. I dont know about you but I dont see that being even close to OP, even if a FULL team spams it over and over. In fact that would gimp a teams damage severely. 30 seconds would be way too short, but 25 minutes is ridiculous. Personally I think about 3-5 min would be good.

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If anything, I use it for screenshots.

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This. It was also useful when emotes didn't put away your weapons; you could pistol-whip people with it.

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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

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Temps should be light+quick.
Accolades should be once-in-a-long-while "I'm Awesome!!!" buttons.

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I agree with this. I will point out however that even compared with temp powers the Crey pistol is underpowered. And I am not even talking about the "heavy hitters" like the Warburg nukes or the Nemesis Staff/Blackwand with the origin bonus (Vet reward). Heck, even the revolver is more useful.

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Temps should be light+quick.
Accolades should be once-in-a-long-while "I'm Awesome!!!" buttons.

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I agree with this. I will point out however that even compared with temp powers the Crey pistol is underpowered. And I am not even talking about the "heavy hitters" like the Warburg nukes or the Nemesis Staff/Blackwand with the origin bonus (Vet reward). Heck, even the revolver is more useful.

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yes. but my point was about more *how* to balance it.
You don't want to make it frequent-but-light. That's not the purpose of an accolade, IMHO. Nor is it really going to feel like a good reward to get something just like Ring of Fire.

actually, taking that logic a bit further, I don't think a badge-unlockable power should ever be on the same order as something you pick up by normal leveling. You don't want a "mere" level-like reward from badging, nor do you want people fixating on badges as a source of filling out an attack chain instead of getting around to their main powersets (or worse, fixating on having teammates do the hunting as a form of badge-based PL'ing)

so the fix for the pistol really shouldn't be "well at that level of ooomph it should recharge faster". The fix should really be on the order of the 30 seconds of pure unbridled power from Demonic or Force of Nature.

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Or perhaps a "free" tier 8 or 9 like blast once every 30 minutes.

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Can I settle for an accolade that doesn't go "pew pew"? If it had sort of buildup charge, like the 10 second buildup for the base teleporter, at least it would feel more awesome than it is.

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I have to agree that this power is terrible. I've used it for screenshots and that's about it.

In fact, due to the work involved in getting it, I've gotten it on my main, and once I realized it sucked, haven't made any effort to get it on others. I definitely haven't gone out of my way to get it the way I have for other accolades like the hp and end buffs.

The recharge needs to drop significantly. Of course, I'd love to see the power buffed as well (damage and duration), otherwise even at a reasonable level like 5 minutes, I would probably rarely, if ever remember to use it.

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I shoot the Hamidon with it.

pewpewpew

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@Viper Kinji
Currently working on:
Turtle Snapper - SD/MA/Ice Tanker

-Eden Trial walls
-GW or Scriocco on STF (scimitar boy I don't want his EMP blast recharging, GW...immobs on her never hurt)
-LR on STF (by the time he's spawned and the towers are down, it'll have recharged from the lieut fights)
-Aeon on STF
-Any AV fight I'm in really

As an emp/rad, I have no other powers that do immobs or slows, so at least for me, the rare times I need it it's handy to have.

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Arc #345863 - When The Bough Breaks
"Curse you Perry the Plata...wait, is that Love Handel?" - Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz, Phineas and Ferb

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I shoot the Hamidon with it.

pewpewpew

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this gives me visions of Hammi with a very regal accent saying "We are not amused"

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Once on Protector we got about 30 of us with the Crey Pistol together and tried to immobilize a Kronos. We all fired roughly at the same time and it didn't work.

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Protector Server
Woeful Knight (BS/Regen/Body Scrapper)
Kevin Christian (MC/FF/Primal Controller)
SilverCybernaut (Eng/Dev/Munitions Blaster)
Apixie OhNo (Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker)
Y'ru Glowen (Rad/Rad/Psy Defender)

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(QR)

I agree this is a novelty at best.

Look at the other click powers. Insane amounts of Def or Recharge for 30 seconds.
This power should compare. Once every 25 minutes you should have an insanely powerful hold/immobilize.

what would deserve that description? Mag 4 Hold for 30 seconds, perhaps. Still may be seen as weaker than other powers because of the limit to one target, but drawing lots of aggro with an AOE may still seem pretty useless.

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My redesign:

25 minute recharge time
Targeted AOE, Mag 3 AOE Immobilize + Slow (for any mez resists), snow-and-ice effect, with a default 15 second mez time
10 second activation time, with a "revv up" power cycling like a base teleporter, and the resulting blast sound is upgraded from the dainty "pew pew" to anything - ANYTHING.

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I have to agree that this power is terrible. I've used it for screenshots and that's about it.

In fact, due to the work involved in getting it, I've gotten it on my main, and once I realized it sucked, haven't made any effort to get it on others. I definitely haven't gone out of my way to get it the way I have for other accolades like the hp and end buffs.

The recharge needs to drop significantly. Of course, I'd love to see the power buffed as well (damage and duration), otherwise even at a reasonable level like 5 minutes, I would probably rarely, if ever remember to use it.

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This

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