I feel the changes they made have improved PvP. Among the people that quit over the changes were some of the most obnoxious losers that were driving off potential pvpers.
Since those guys left I even started playig enough to earn the Dimensional Vortex for the SG I'm in. I never would have bothered if the recent pvp changes hadn't driven off the jerks.
I'm curious how making PvP a series of stalemates, because niether side will be defeatable, is supposed to make that part of the game more fun.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
<QR>
And this is coming from..... where?
There is nothing in the last two patches that has anything to do with PVP at all. Your rant lacks context.
[ QUOTE ]
Every cry for a nerf should be answered with a buff.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I agree that, on principle, every nerf should be answered with a buff, I don't think our understanding of that maxim agrees. Every nerf to an overperforming set should be accompanied by a buff to a similarly underperforming set, therby bringing more balance across the board. I get the feeling that your take on this maxim is closer to "when you take something away from a set, you should compensate the set in some way so that its performance level remains the same."
I vociferously disagree. If a set is overperforming, giving it something of equal power or usefulness to what you take away does nothing to address the fact that it is overperforming, just how it overperforms.
[ QUOTE ]
Give everyone more hitpoints, damage, resistance
[/ QUOTE ]
Didn't they effectively do this when they reduced spike damage?
[ QUOTE ]
give widows back their uber defense
[/ QUOTE ]
Making Widows better than everything else again improves things how?
[ QUOTE ]
make pvp last longer and more interesting.
[/ QUOTE ]
They reduced Spike damage so that it is more difficult for Stalkers and Blasters to two shot people, killed jousting and introduced elusivity because PVP 1.0 was too quick. PVP 2.0 does last longer than PVP 1.0. Request granted?
[ QUOTE ]
Back to the drawing board, issue16?
[/ QUOTE ]
And you get this idea from where? Positron stated that he was happy with the general direction of PVP 2.0. Expect to continue to see tweaks as time goes on, but "back to the drawing board?" I hardly think so.
[ QUOTE ]
Nerfing does not solve anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
I beg to differ. If one thing is performing wildly over expectations, it should be pruned back. If everything else gets brought up to the level of the overperforming set, then the entire game needs to be rebalanced around the new standard. I'm sorry your flavor of the month keeps getting whacked. You do realize that it is called a "flavor of the month" because it can't be expected to last, resulting in a "new flavor" next month? If it looks too good, chances are that it is too good. Enjoy it while it lasts, and be ready to move on when the powers that be notice how good it is. That is what "flavor of the month" is all about.
[ QUOTE ]
This would be a great tribute to the pvp community and we will see a large number of returning faces.
[/ QUOTE ]
The PVP Community that proved intractable, elitist and arrogant? The Devs informed the PVP community that changes needed to be made, and big ones. At every turn, they were met with "this sucks, change it back" when that wasn't an option. Rather than finding a compromise point, many hardcore PVP'ers simply took their ball and went home. That bridge is burned. Even if they roll back to PVP 1.0, which is what it sounds like you are asking for, I wouldn't expect to see many of those faces return.
[ QUOTE ]
Think about it
[/ QUOTE ]
Thinking about it.
Done.
See you next rant. 
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
[ QUOTE ]
Nerfing does not solve anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but it does. A "buff only" policy just leads to arms races, and in any event amounts to a nerf when X gets buffed more than Y.
Just leave PvP alone and let it die with some dignity. The poor guy is in a coma and he's not coming out of it. Let's pull the plug and let him go, it'll be better for all of us in the long run.
There is nothing wrong with PVP ... I can play a blaster without worrying about being 2 shotted by a stalker anymore. I just started getting back into PvP again, and I'm quite satisfied with the direction it took.
Battles should not be over in 3 seconds, they should last awhile. If anything, add more suppression to movement. When a person is hit, it should also invoke the movement suppression.
It does, AFAIK. Doesn't last as long as the suppression from being attacked, but it's there.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
[ QUOTE ]
The PVP Community that proved intractable, elitist and arrogant? The Devs informed the PVP community that changes needed to be made, and big ones. At every turn, they were met with "this sucks, change it back" when that wasn't an option. Rather than finding a compromise point, many hardcore PVP'ers simply took their ball and went home.
[/ QUOTE ]
You must have come in late to the i13 beta. Also, could give us some names of the elitist and arrogant PvP'ers? Unless, of course, you believe that the broad brush covers the whole of the community.
When i13 was announced, many of the current PvP players said it was a bad idea. During the closed beta, many of those had given ideas and compromises to the devs along with reasons as to why their designs weren't going to work. Johnny_Mercone, Avid, NotPutzing, TribalHavok and myself included gave very detailed feedback with no "noise" to speak of. Other experienced players, like Ownage and Ajax, gave even further examples as to why certain sets were made even worse in comparison to others, thus widening the gap between what's good and what isn't.
When the devs lied about some issues ("We're working on a form of travel suppression much like TribalHavok's suggestion" when it was NOTHING like it) and then stated how the changes were never meant for us, that's when most of the core PvP'ers called it quits.
Do I agree with the OP's suggestion? Not really, as it seems as ill-thought out as the i13 changes were. But to state that the PvP crowd just blasted the changes without offering solutions and then ragequit is just dishonest and incorrect.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
There is nothing in the last two patches that has anything to do with PVP at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Well, start nerfing PVP again, and then stop it! Good day to you, sir!"
[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious how making PvP a series of stalemates, because niether side will be defeatable, is supposed to make that part of the game more fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
My point was that what made PvP more fun for me was when the jerks left. My friend and I didn't catch any grief like we used to experience and before either of us knew it we both had earned the SG badge that unlocks the PvP powersource for our respective SG's. If the devs continue to work on PvP I only hope it doesn't draw the jerks back. It was those jerks that discouraged a lot of PvE players and gave the good PvP players a bad reputation. If the jerks return in large enough numbers I'll stop going to PvP zones again.
[ QUOTE ]
Give everyone more hitpoints, damage, resistance, make IH a toggle again, give widows back their uber defense and a number of buffs across the board to make pvp last longer and more interesting.
[/ QUOTE ]
You do realize that the reason behind the nerfing of the defensive sets was to make it so that players could no longer be statically invincible? Toggle IH was removed because the only way to kill a decently build */Regen was to get lucky by toggle dropping IH and then praying that you got lucky enough to get enough damage in while it was recharging and (hopefully) the */Regen was stuck in animation. I PvP'd like crazy back when arena was first released and even I had to admit it was a bit borked. More than once, I simply stood there and let */nrg blasters beat on me just to see if they could actually beat me (they generally couldn't because I was fast enough with Recon and I had loads of pointless toggles for toggle droppers to eat through).
Personally, I find the current state of PvP to be much nicer than it used to be. No longer is mez as painfully broken as it use to be (once your mez protection was overcome, you were screwed...). You can actually defeat a target via attrition rather than purely through obscene burst damage. Of course, it takes some getting used to because all of your powers operate completely differently, but that's to be expected in a game where PvE is balanced around a single player fighting massive mobs of targets and continuing on without resting.
[ QUOTE ]
Stop Nerfing PvP
[/ QUOTE ]
No, on the contrary! Start nerfing PvP again! It was was a lot of fun watching it.
I just checked. I'm sorry to say I failed my "take this seriously" throw. Oops!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
[ QUOTE ]
I just checked. I'm sorry to say I failed my "take this seriously" throw. Oops!
[/ QUOTE ]
The -5 penalty to those just for being Forum Cartel makes it a bit hard, huh?
[ QUOTE ]
Among the people that quit over the changes were some of the most obnoxious losers that were driving off potential pvpers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Obnoxious winners seem to me more likely to drive off potential pvpers. I'm not sure there is any effective way to nerf trash talking, though.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious how making PvP a series of stalemates, because niether side will be defeatable, is supposed to make that part of the game more fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
My point was that what made PvP more fun for me was when the jerks left. My friend and I didn't catch any grief like we used to experience and before either of us knew it we both had earned the SG badge that unlocks the PvP powersource for our respective SG's. If the devs continue to work on PvP I only hope it doesn't draw the jerks back. It was those jerks that discouraged a lot of PvE players and gave the good PvP players a bad reputation. If the jerks return in large enough numbers I'll stop going to PvP zones again.
[/ QUOTE ]Sorry, my post was directed at the OP, and his 'buff everyone' suggestion, now you.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, my post was directed at the OP, and his 'buff everyone' suggestion, now you.
[/ QUOTE ]
No problem. 
No harm, no foul. 
[ QUOTE ]
I feel the changes they made have improved PvP. Among the people that quit over the changes were some of the most obnoxious losers that were driving off potential pvpers.
Since those guys left I even started playig enough to earn the Dimensional Vortex for the SG I'm in. I never would have bothered if the recent pvp changes hadn't driven off the jerks.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, it wasn't that the changes improved PvP, but rather, the changes drove off people that you avoided in order to get a PvP reward without having to PvP.
Jerks in PvP zones might have driven off potential players, but so did driving off the people who would help new players get better. These changes drove off a lot of helpful and friendly players that have gotten others into PvP and would have continued to do so. It also killed off the interest in PvP in several people I had started to help teach. Now things are considerably different from how they work in PvE, making the curve a bit harder to fathom for a new player. Only thing is, now there's fewer players to help them learn, good or bad.
A number of my characters got "better" with the i13 changes, but that doesn't mean it was good for PvP just because my personal situation improved. I could see how buffers were affected, how melee was affected, and how teamwork and other tactics unique to this game's PvP were affected in a very bad way.
There were a number of ways to deal with a zone jerk that didn't involve driving a majority of your core PvP base out of the game. The first step would have been to ask for help.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
But the majority of the "core" pvp people *were* why a lot of us, myself included, didn't "ask for help" - because the "help" would simply come in the form of mocking, beratement and forum-taunting the likes of which *still* won't stop.
The changes were made to prevent THOSE people from taking unfair and undue advantage of people like me. I'm NEVER going to make a "dedicated pvp" build on any toon - it's not my style. However, that puts me at a huge disadvantage when comes time to even breeze through a pvp zone or play for half an hour doing stuff I don't often do.
It really always has seemed to be "you must be either pvp or pve" - which might or might not be true, but that's how it's felt. Balancing it out so that "not really interested in getting serious but it looks fun for a bit" players will actually *want* to do more pvp in the future, seems like a no-brainer.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
I seriously doubt the majority mocked you for anything if you asked. Most PvP'ers on the forums aren't that big of jerks (except to one another, which is another matter all together).
In any PvP thread that asks for help, you'll generally find the info you need from a majority of the good responses. There's usually a joke or two thrown in, but they are the minority compared to the real responses, and even fewer are ever with any malicious intent.
I do understand the spirit behind why they made these changes, but they failed spectacularly. Things became more unbalanced, putting you at even further of a disadvantage. Powers that are often seen as gimp in PvE (Flurry, Jump Kick) are now better in PvP than most/all of your primary attacks. How does that help close the gap between a PvE and a PvP build? In reality, all one ever needed to do was take their character into a PvP environment and practice. One didn't need to build specifically for PvP to be good, but the myth around PvP in this game made it look that way.
In retrospect, this feels a lot like the whole "The devs nerf more than they buff" myth that was put out a while back.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I feel the changes they made have improved PvP. Among the people that quit over the changes were some of the most obnoxious losers that were driving off potential pvpers.
Since those guys left I even started playig enough to earn the Dimensional Vortex for the SG I'm in. I never would have bothered if the recent pvp changes hadn't driven off the jerks.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, it wasn't that the changes improved PvP, but rather, the changes drove off people that you avoided in order to get a PvP reward without having to PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, totally false. The only way to earn the SG badge was to actually participate in PvP. There's no way around it. You have to make 750 kills in a PvP zone. Not NPC's, other players. My friend and I teamed up in Bloody Bay and killed Villains. And the last time I checked killing other players is the definition of PvP.
You're right. I made an unjust assumption. I apologize.
But wouldn't more players in the zone, jerks or not, given you more opportunities to get your kills? Again, there were plenty of ways to deal with unseemly types that didn't involve killing the game for a lot of people who enjoyed PvP as it was that weren't out just to ruin someone's day.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
[ QUOTE ]
But wouldn't more players in the zone, jerks or not, given you more opportunities to get your kills?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not if they've got all the advantages and simply kill you first, time after time.
Unless there's a "dying in pvp" badge too?
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
Even outnumbered, one can get their kills with the right application of tactics. ESPECIALLY in Bloody Bay. Getting a kill or two, even if the result is dying, is still getting a kill.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
Rei knows what's what. That is all.
Every cry for a nerf should be answered with a buff. There is no reason that defense sets cant defend, regen sets cant regen, and hold sets cant hold. Give everyone more hitpoints, damage, resistance, make IH a toggle again, give widows back their uber defense and a number of buffs across the board to make pvp last longer and more interesting. Nerfing does not solve anything. Make sets matter again also. Back to the drawing board, issue16? lol Seriously. This would be a great tribute to the pvp community and we will see a large number of returning faces. Think about it.