A Means to Limit Farming: "VR Fatigue"
By
AddamsFamily,
Posted on: 2009-04-29 06:55 in Mission Architect
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Or the devs could/should just make 2-4 default farming missions that are either MA arcs making them easy to find and 'auto-LK' or given out by an easy to find contact.
Synergyblast: 50 Energy/Electric Blaster (Virtue)
Arbiter Bailey: 50 Bane (Virtue)
Mr. Bailey: 50 Merc/Dark MM (Virtue)
Interesting first post. For your edification:
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Ticket Cap
Tickets show up in Salvage under the Special tab. The limit to the amount of Tickets you can hold is 9,999. Also, there is a mission limit to tickets. The developer, pohsyb, said that there is a formula based on cap per spawn times spawns per mission which caps the number of Tickets one can earn from any particular mission. That cap is set very high and would take a single player running through a mission spawned for eight to hit that cap.
Tickets earned over either cap are lost. Tickets over the cap, however, do count for a series of badges which counts these lost, over-the-cap tickets.
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In other words the devs have this covered and had it covered prior to the release of I14. So they have a cap so large even those using the comm officers can't surpass it. Having said that outliers like the comm officers needed to be adjusted.
People especially new people need to recognize the new issue ALWAYS has a hot period(first month or so) then things calm down and settle into the normal COX pattern. This pattern includes many different players with many different playstyles and im sure at least a few groups of people with your playstyle.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Would this not ruin the ability to play a character's entire career via AE, as the devs have touted?
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It seems that many folks consider farming of MA missions to be a significant issue. I must agree that some specific builds, such as Rikti dolls and comm officers, allow for exploitative experience and ticket gains, which certainly makes levelling via any other means seem silly by comparison.
However, due to the customizable nature of the MA system, the developers have little power to prevent these and future exploits. It is impossible to thoroughly test every possibility before it goes live, and it is a near certainty that future additions to MA will include possible exploitations. This leaves the devs capable of only reactionary measures, closing what loopholes they can find as they arise. This unfortunately means that any such exploits will be thoroughly abused by many players long before they can be rectified, which makes non-abusers upset because the abusers obtained an unfair advantage, and the abusers upset because their toys were taken from them.
Overall, the end result is ill will towards the dev team for constant "nerfs", longer delays between MA updates as the Devs are forced to heavily scrutinize every prospective update for possible exploits, and lack of trust in the integrity of the MA system due to perceived imbalances.
What I propose is that instead of trying to catch every individual exploit as they arise, what is needed is a system that inherently limits the overall reward imbalances that can arise with any kind of possible exploit; in other words, a mechanic that ensures that regardless of how rewards are acquired in the MA, they will never exceed a given threshold.
I call the system, "Virtual Reality Fatigue." The concept is simple: the developers determine what they consider to be an "acceptable" rate of advancement, in experience, tickets, and influence/infamy, and set a threshold. If a given player's rate of advancement exceeds that threshold, they begin to accumulate "fatigue" and receive gradually less of that reward. The fatigue effect would be curved, so that as more fatigue was accumulated, rewards got gradually lessened, until approaching zero (for very extreme cases).
The threshold could be scaled so that players who use the MA system as it was designed do not feel its effects at all. As long as your acquisition of rewards over a period of time remain within the acceptable range, you suffer no ill-effects. Only those who are abusing the system to receive greater than normal rewards will have their advancement throttled, and even they will not reach a hard cap, merely a gradual decline.
Hard caps are generally disliked, for obvious reasons. However, a curved decrease acts less like a limit and more like a deterrent for exploitative behavior. Farmers could still spend time farming if they wish, but it would only be profitable for a short time each session, and therefore their long-term rate of advancement would be normalized.
The result of the system would effectively deter farming in the MA while allowing those who wish to use it for its intended purpose--playing new and original mission content--to receive their deserved rewards.
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Great idea! we could extend this t RWZ raids and limit those vanguard merits and inf/exp. and tf's to limit those pesky tfers that arent playing like intended. Pretty soon it will be easy to find people to rp "hawt catgurlz" in atlas park.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
Also what you can do with the tixxs have changed things. 9,999 tix = about 29 Defic weapons... Now the good chips/recipies have come down in price, basic salvage has gone through the roof because of no drops in MA, and getting any kind of a proc is gonna cost millions more than it already did.
If you can get those very rare salavage pieces easier than with merits, haven't we devalued the merits a bit? I can roll more value in less time with the MA then running a good TF. Only difference is the better chance of getting a purp drop in a TF.
The DEVs want you to be able to get to 50 in the MA. No prob with that. Only thing I can think of is limiting the level variation on SKing. Make the SK be within a certain lvl of the mentor to be SK in the first place. But those who don't play that way will be nerfed. Perhaps the answer lies in the rewards earned not the xp gained, at least to start with.
That's what the per mission ticket cap is a limit on the rewards.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Wouldn't change anything. Farmers would just pick a shorter map to get the most EXP while not going over the cap.
At this point, I'm far more interested in a means to limit farming threads. Maybe they need to install a limit on the boards on the number of time the word "farm" can be used in a 24 hour period. After that time limit, any post containing the word (including its title) is automatically deleted.
And god help you if you post a thread using that word after the "Farm Cap" is reached....
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
Aside from being terrible ideas, this would pretty much just impose limits on the flexibility of MA content, which would come back to affect everyone.
How is farming MA different from farming official content? Nothing has changed. And I don't mean since I14 was released, I mean nothing has changed since the dawn of MOOs and MUDs and grinding some 20 odd years ago.
Terrible idea, OP. Why then, would any average, leveling player go to the MA when after two or three missions the rewards aren't there for them until the next day. Why do you run a TF instead of AE...for the chance at a purp. All the AE did was allow me to run tickets solo for my loot instead of having to find 3-5 other people to go do a TF, of which 1 or 2 are always invariable lost, slow, leeching, afk, unable to stealth, something...even though they know it is a speed run. Now I don't have to hold anyone's hand or babysit unless I want to. Leave my AE alone, go play yours however you like.
Simple, no more XP from AE mishes, only patrol experience.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
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That's what the per mission ticket cap is a limit on the rewards.
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Considering that I have gotten over 16,000 tickets and 16MIL from a single run of a farm... I think that's not quite working as intended...
FWIW, It's not the tickets and the money that are the problem. Sure the markets gone up and purples are"OMG HOW MUCH!"... the problem is noobies getting PLed to 30 out the gate.... if you are a 30 and don't know how to get to Kings Row!!!... there are issues.
People not knowing how to play their toons is a totally separate issue.
In terms of the cap the "devs" set the cap and "they" are the ones that decide what is too high or not.
In addition, since the amount of anyone's inventory is 9,999, there is no way that you "received" 16,000 tickets. Please don't tell me you "counted" any past 9,999 as received as that would lack sound rationale.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
ok, yes, there IS a way... but it requires you to somehow get rid of the tickets that you have which would put you over your cap...
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At this point, I'm far more interested in a means to limit farming threads. Maybe they need to install a limit on the boards on the number of time the word "farm" can be used in a 24 hour period. After that time limit, any post containing the word (including its title) is automatically deleted.
And god help you if you post a thread using that word after the "Farm Cap" is reached....
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The OP idea I don't like. I could go for this though.... I'm not crazy about farming myself but I just don't care that other people farm.
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ok, yes, there IS a way... but it requires you to somehow get rid of the tickets that you have which would put you over your cap...
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That would still require you to stop what you are doing, leave, clear your tickets, re enter, and continue....who cares? I would rather finish much quicker, get my end bonus to take me to cap, and repeat.
The fact you found a way to sidestep the cap doesn't change the fact that there is one.
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I'm far more interested in a means to limit farming threads
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This^^
So why dont yall just stop your crying and let farmers play the game they want to
I have said it before and I will say it again. The game content bores me. I have done it too many times. The ONLY thing that keeps me playing it PL'n new toons and making billion dollar builds so I can be the the best Tanker/Scrapper/Defender/Brute/Dom/Etc that I can be for TF/Raids/etc
Take away my ability to farm for inf/tickets/xp at an advanced rate thanks to a mission and build to which I put in the time and effort to create without using exploits and I have no reason to stay playing any game that cost me money to play. I wont pay for something that isnt fun. All ya need to do to avoid a farm is leave the map or say no thanks when asked. Problem solved. If farming just cant be done and I am forced to play content I have been doing for 5 years there is no way to adjust or say no thanks.
So just say no thanks and keep looking for a mission/team you like
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ok, yes, there IS a way... but it requires you to somehow get rid of the tickets that you have which would put you over your cap...
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<gasp> you mean... folks might exit a mission, buy some items and reenter the mission for more tickets?
UNpossible!
Be well, people of CoH.
Post deleted by hedgehog
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
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That's what the per mission ticket cap is a limit on the rewards.
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Considering that I have gotten over 16,000 tickets and 16MIL from a single run of a farm... I think that's not quite working as intended...
FWIW, It's not the tickets and the money that are the problem. Sure the markets gone up and purples are"OMG HOW MUCH!"... the problem is noobies getting PLed to 30 out the gate.... if you are a 30 and don't know how to get to Kings Row!!!... there are issues.
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you cap out at 9999 tickets. how did you manage to get 16k?
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Simple they dual boxed but left that part out. If they had supplied us with that information his post would not have the punch it needs to help him get his way. Either that or just a flat out lie
If you dont have any valid points, alter the facts I guess
They should be in politics
Single account.
Yes you have to exit the mission. Dump your tickets into rolls. Reenter and finish the map. If you would go over the ticket cap with the mission bonus this is, as far as I can tell, a legal but time consuming way to do it.
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Aside from being terrible ideas, this would pretty much just impose limits on the flexibility of MA content, which would come back to affect everyone.
How is farming MA different from farming official content? Nothing has changed. And I don't mean since I14 was released, I mean nothing has changed since the dawn of MOOs and MUDs and grinding some 20 odd years ago.
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The difference is that there are a few bugs that the farmers are exploiting when making their MA Farm Missions. Most have been fixed, but there are still one or two left.
These bugs allow the MA Farmers to get rewards that FAR exceed what they can get by farming regular missions. Or to create a mission where the custom group can't even fight back.
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
These "anti-farming" posts are really just silly...sure, I agree that players who have zero experience with playing their characters might be mildly annoying, however, it is their money they are spending on a video game, and they have every right to play and level their toons how they see fit.
besides, no matter what fix is put in, smart players will find a way to bend the rules to their advantage. dont like farming ? Then dont go to farm teams...dont like PL'd newbs who cant find Kings Row, kick them from your team. Personally, I dont need someone else to decide what I should find fun and exciting. Live and let live I always say, the last thing we need is more diminishing returns from our playtime.
@Viking Queen.
I should clarify that I acknowledge that the Rikti Comm ops is probably a bug, just like static objects and Cimerora Immunes Surgeons were. They're designed to exist in spawns, etc, and singling them out in MA is something the devs said didn't intend and that they would address since before it was launched. So, Comm ops will probably get subbed with an MA specific version, and rightly so.
It seems that many folks consider farming of MA missions to be a significant issue. I must agree that some specific builds, such as Rikti dolls and comm officers, allow for exploitative experience and ticket gains, which certainly makes levelling via any other means seem silly by comparison.
However, due to the customizable nature of the MA system, the developers have little power to prevent these and future exploits. It is impossible to thoroughly test every possibility before it goes live, and it is a near certainty that future additions to MA will include possible exploitations. This leaves the devs capable of only reactionary measures, closing what loopholes they can find as they arise. This unfortunately means that any such exploits will be thoroughly abused by many players long before they can be rectified, which makes non-abusers upset because the abusers obtained an unfair advantage, and the abusers upset because their toys were taken from them.
Overall, the end result is ill will towards the dev team for constant "nerfs", longer delays between MA updates as the Devs are forced to heavily scrutinize every prospective update for possible exploits, and lack of trust in the integrity of the MA system due to perceived imbalances.
What I propose is that instead of trying to catch every individual exploit as they arise, what is needed is a system that inherently limits the overall reward imbalances that can arise with any kind of possible exploit; in other words, a mechanic that ensures that regardless of how rewards are acquired in the MA, they will never exceed a given threshold.
I call the system, "Virtual Reality Fatigue." The concept is simple: the developers determine what they consider to be an "acceptable" rate of advancement, in experience, tickets, and influence/infamy, and set a threshold. If a given player's rate of advancement exceeds that threshold, they begin to accumulate "fatigue" and receive gradually less of that reward. The fatigue effect would be curved, so that as more fatigue was accumulated, rewards got gradually lessened, until approaching zero (for very extreme cases).
The threshold could be scaled so that players who use the MA system as it was designed do not feel its effects at all. As long as your acquisition of rewards over a period of time remain within the acceptable range, you suffer no ill-effects. Only those who are abusing the system to receive greater than normal rewards will have their advancement throttled, and even they will not reach a hard cap, merely a gradual decline.
Hard caps are generally disliked, for obvious reasons. However, a curved decrease acts less like a limit and more like a deterrent for exploitative behavior. Farmers could still spend time farming if they wish, but it would only be profitable for a short time each session, and therefore their long-term rate of advancement would be normalized.
The result of the system would effectively deter farming in the MA while allowing those who wish to use it for its intended purpose--playing new and original mission content--to receive their deserved rewards.