Let's talk about pre-20 endurance management.
By
AprilShade,
Posted on: 2009-04-18 16:05 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Warp 9 (whatever that is) isn't necessary. However, being able to run from one spawn to another within a mission with no down time is. Regardless of AT and powerset, any player at any level ought to be able to run a mission from entrance to completion without stopping if they want to.
The game doesn't permit this. There is no reason for such restriction.
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The game permits it after level 22 for specific powersets from specific ATs.
This is why I don't play certain powersets. Sometimes changes are made when powersets or ATs are shown to be too slow or weak or unacceptable for the job they are supposed to do. (See upcoming dominator changes.)
However, as the game and the devs so often remind us, some ATs and/or powersets will solo better than others since some are designed to be team only.
This is why I finally decided to give up trying to get the 1-22 game changed. Some people like the slow ride up. Some people would be negatively impacted if they didn't have the low level weakness to compare to the high level power we get.
And I don't wish to take that away from anyone when I've been given the tools necessary to skip that part of the game.
I thank the devs for allowing me the tools to powerlevel my characters from 1-22 in less than 2 hours. While doing so, I get to play my high level characters as I enjoy them.
It's a good design.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Twisted_Toon,
There is no right or wrong. However, if you're not capable of fighting non-stop with an attack/buff/debuff/control animating every moment that a enemy is within range, then you're not contributing to the team effort as much as I would want you to.
OTOH, I've been told before that the pace I run at is "excessive."
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That is where the "problem" is. not with Stamina or Endurance, but with the players' play style, perception and standards. Not everyone "has" to play at warp 9 every second they are in the game. Unless, of course, they play with you BillZ. 
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Warp 9 (whatever that is) isn't necessary. However, being able to run from one spawn to another within a mission with no down time is. Regardless of AT and powerset, any player at any level ought to be able to run a mission from entrance to completion without stopping if they want to.
The game doesn't permit this. There is no reason for such restriction.
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That mechanic is prevalent in ALL of the MMORPGs. It's a basic part of the genre. Whether it's called mana or endurance or powerpoints or whatever, all players start out at a base level and build up from there. No MMORPG I know of lets you go continuously without stopping right from the beginning. You say there is no reason for that restriction, but all of the games do it. The reason is to let you experience that character growth that I just mentioned. If you want a game where that doesn't happen, then you'll have to look outside the MMORPG genre.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
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Twisted_Toon,
There is no right or wrong. However, if you're not capable of fighting non-stop with an attack/buff/debuff/control animating every moment that a enemy is within range, then you're not contributing to the team effort as much as I would want you to.
OTOH, I've been told before that the pace I run at is "excessive."
[/ QUOTE ]
That is where the "problem" is. not with Stamina or Endurance, but with the players' play style, perception and standards. Not everyone "has" to play at warp 9 every second they are in the game. Unless, of course, they play with you BillZ.
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Warp 9 (whatever that is) isn't necessary. However, being able to run from one spawn to another within a mission with no down time is. Regardless of AT and powerset, any player at any level ought to be able to run a mission from entrance to completion without stopping if they want to.
The game doesn't permit this. There is no reason for such restriction.
[/ QUOTE ]
That mechanic is prevalent in ALL of the MMORPGs. It's a basic part of the genre. Whether it's called mana or endurance or powerpoints or whatever, all players start out at a base level and build up from there. No MMORPG I know of lets you go continuously without stopping right from the beginning. You say there is no reason for that restriction, but all of the games do it. The reason is to let you experience that character growth that I just mentioned. If you want a game where that doesn't happen, then you'll have to look outside the MMORPG genre.
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Not true. I can even name one I have personally played; Guild Wars. No matter what level you are in that game, once you get out of combat, after a short delay, you begin rapidly regenerating both health and energy until you are full in a few seconds.
Enforced downtime is an unnecessary restriction.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
Such games have very slow movement, and a very clear idea of what does and doesn't constitute 'in combat,' because getting out of combat can lead to such large bonuses. With such a dynamic game as CoX, such metrics are not directly comparable.
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Twisted_Toon,
There is no right or wrong. However, if you're not capable of fighting non-stop with an attack/buff/debuff/control animating every moment that a enemy is within range, then you're not contributing to the team effort as much as I would want you to.
OTOH, I've been told before that the pace I run at is "excessive."
[/ QUOTE ]
That is where the "problem" is. not with Stamina or Endurance, but with the players' play style, perception and standards. Not everyone "has" to play at warp 9 every second they are in the game. Unless, of course, they play with you BillZ.
[/ QUOTE ]
Warp 9 (whatever that is) isn't necessary. However, being able to run from one spawn to another within a mission with no down time is. Regardless of AT and powerset, any player at any level ought to be able to run a mission from entrance to completion without stopping if they want to.
The game doesn't permit this. There is no reason for such restriction.
[/ QUOTE ]
That mechanic is prevalent in ALL of the MMORPGs. It's a basic part of the genre. Whether it's called mana or endurance or powerpoints or whatever, all players start out at a base level and build up from there. No MMORPG I know of lets you go continuously without stopping right from the beginning. You say there is no reason for that restriction, but all of the games do it. The reason is to let you experience that character growth that I just mentioned. If you want a game where that doesn't happen, then you'll have to look outside the MMORPG genre.
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Not true. I can even name one I have personally played; Guild Wars. No matter what level you are in that game, once you get out of combat, after a short delay, you begin rapidly regenerating both health and energy until you are full in a few seconds.
Enforced downtime is an unnecessary restriction.
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What about when you're within combat? You say you start regenerating energy faster after a delay, and it regenerates rapidly. That says to me that you still have an energy meter, it still runs out and can run out while you're within combat, and there's still a delay after a fight. Since you have to stay out of combat for several moments before it kicks in, your example still doesn't sound like you can just move from mob to mob to mob without stopping.
I personally don't think there should be any recharge at all on Rest. Since it takes several seconds to kick in, and because you're VERY vulnerable while doing it and it's not instantaneous, I think it should be usable at any time.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
Kitten said [ QUOTE ]
Regardless of AT and powerset, any player at any level ought to be able to run a mission from entrance to completion without stopping if they want to.
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That's a premise disguised as a conclusion.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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end at the low levels just isn't a big deal for most ATs.
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So very very false. End at the low level isn't a big deal for SOME POWERSETS. For most powersets across all ATs, it IS a big deal.
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no it isn't.
i mean if you're looking for something to whine about, you can whine about anything.
I've played everything in this game to a respectable level, and the number of ATs that breeze through the pre-stamina game vastly outnumber the ATs that make you pay close attention to your endurance.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
The original post did specify something about soloing. 3+ people on a team, I don't find endurance to be a problem, period.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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The original post did specify something about soloing. 3+ people on a team, I don't find endurance to be a problem, period.
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This I can certainly agree with. My experience with low level teams is that they manage to keep moving most of the time. There's still a good bit of resting but the team as a whole tends to keep moving. Quite different from soloing at those same levels in my experience.
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The original post did specify something about soloing. 3+ people on a team, I don't find endurance to be a problem, period.
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This I can certainly agree with. My experience with low level teams is that they manage to keep moving most of the time. There's still a good bit of resting but the team as a whole tends to keep moving. Quite different from soloing at those same levels in my experience.
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This also squares with my experience, even on end-hogs like stormies.
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The original post did specify something about soloing. 3+ people on a team, I don't find endurance to be a problem, period.
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This I can certainly agree with. My experience with low level teams is that they manage to keep moving most of the time. There's still a good bit of resting but the team as a whole tends to keep moving. Quite different from soloing at those same levels in my experience.
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This also squares with my experience, even on end-hogs like stormies.
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And it makes perfect sense why this would be so. If 3 of the 4 are fighting, it's easy for the 4th to take a knee.
As you progress through the mission taking turns in this manner, it practically negates the downtime.
Soloists are still screwed, of course.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Soloists are still screwed, of course.
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Well, relative to teamers. But people have repeatedly said "low level characters..." when they meant "low level soloists..." through this thread. Every few pages I have to post the same thing because every few pages people start drifting into implying that it's a universal problem - that everyone, at all times, has this problem between level 12 and 20.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Soloists are still screwed, of course.
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Well, relative to teamers. But people have repeatedly said "low level characters..." when they meant "low level soloists..." through this thread. Every few pages I have to post the same thing because every few pages people start drifting into implying that it's a universal problem - that everyone, at all times, has this problem between level 12 and 20.
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I have a bad habit of assuming everyone knows I solo most of the time so I'm probably guilty of that as well.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Twisted_Toon,
There is no right or wrong. However, if you're not capable of fighting non-stop with an attack/buff/debuff/control animating every moment that a enemy is within range, then you're not contributing to the team effort as much as I would want you to.
OTOH, I've been told before that the pace I run at is "excessive."
[/ QUOTE ]
That is where the "problem" is. not with Stamina or Endurance, but with the players' play style, perception and standards. Not everyone "has" to play at warp 9 every second they are in the game. Unless, of course, they play with you BillZ.
[/ QUOTE ]
Warp 9 (whatever that is) isn't necessary. However, being able to run from one spawn to another within a mission with no down time is. Regardless of AT and powerset, any player at any level ought to be able to run a mission from entrance to completion without stopping if they want to.
The game doesn't permit this. There is no reason for such restriction.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson