interesting idea. I doubt people farm for the influence they get per kill but for the xp and the drops at lvl 50. This method you suggest probably wont be balanced at all and leads people to not want to team/ help eachother as much.
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effect it has on the market through inflation
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More items = bad?
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annoying omnipresence of 'LFF! Level 50 (insert AT here) LFF!' And the wide variety of 'Farm Meh!' arcs in the Mission Architect.
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Change zones. Problem solved.
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I realize that people farm.
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At least you're right on that.
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Seem Fair?
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Nope.
It would definitely isolate the farmers, that's true. But they'd still team with friends to chit-chat while they farm and things of that nature.
But really, farming isn't about Balance. It's about the rewards. So give them the full XP for level 46 people they drag along as perma-bridges. Let them get the increased drops. And let them actually -help- the market, by increasing the supply without increasing the currency.
-Rachel-
*Edit*
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effect it has on the market through inflation
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More items = bad?
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annoying omnipresence of 'LFF! Level 50 (insert AT here) LFF!' And the wide variety of 'Farm Meh!' arcs in the Mission Architect.
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Change zones. Problem solved.
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I realize that people farm.
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At least you're right on that.
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Seem Fair?
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Nope.
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It effects the market through inflation by increasing the amount of influence in the game.
Avoiding farm teams by changing zones? Don't tell me how to play the game while I'm giving you alternative options to pad your team to get more drops. And that doesn't help when I'm looking through Mish Architect arcs, anyhow.
More Items = Awesome. More Inf in the market = Bad.
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People are misinterpreting "exploitive farm" for simply "farm" over and over and over again. The devs don't care if you farm, they only care about exploitive ones.
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Maybe a pop-up window should come up displaying the above text whenever someone attempts to add a post to the forum that contains the word "farm" at least on a temporary basis anyway. (and for some posters, an error message with similar text should be displayed, preventing them from proceeding with their post)
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The only real issues -I- have with farming are:
1) the effect it has on the market through inflation ( You should realize that EVERYONE causes inflation just by playing the game. Should EVERYONE be required to stop playing whenever YOU or I are not also playing? Is it right that we cause inflation while others are not playing? EVERYONE MUST STOP playing the game because the influx of money into the system caused by playing content is going to be the game's downfall!!!
2) and the annoying omnipresence of 'LFF! Level 50 (insert AT here) LFF!' Yet you vehemently oppose suggestions intended to remove/reduce this chatter
3) And the wide variety of 'Farm Meh!' arcs in the Mission Architect. The word farm may bother YOU, but there may be other words that bother other people for no valid reason. We can't stop people from publishing arcs simply because some person somewhere finds the word inappropriate for some outlandish reason. Otherwise, we would end up with NO TITLES and just arc numbers. Based on your posts, I have to assume you think this is a good solution.
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YOU even labeled this thread as being about "Farming" to attract more attention to your "Folders" suggestion. At the same time complaining about the multitude of arcs labeled as "Farm meh!" more than half of which are likely ordinary missions trying to attract people who would otherwise be uninterested in playing their arc.
The irony is thick.
I'd really appreciate it, Terp, if you'd stop harassing me. It's getting to the point where I just want to report every reply you post to one of my ideas or arguments. Directly posting my username in your replies singles me out above any other person to whom you might be referring and is against forum rules.
I did not use the 'Farming Suggestion' to get attention for this thread. My suggestion of 'Farming Mode' is an honest to GOD Suggestion.
Yes. Players running from level 1 to level 50 WILL ADD money to the market. But compared to the amount that a level 50 character adds over the cuorse of a few farm runs it's a paltry amount. Why? Because a character leveling from 1-50 will spend millions on SOs and DOs. Even if they buy IOs at 35 they'll still be gaining slots AFTER that point.
At 50 you have no real prize to spend money on except purple recipes. This suggestion would allow a solo farmer to run missions against a full slew of enemies like he was on an 8 man team AND increase his drop rates.
He won't get any influence, but he can make that up on the market, Can't he? I mean, he -is- farming, right?
-Rachel-
So, you don't think players should be allowed to play their level 50 characters because it causes inflation.
That makes a ton of sense.
As per your request, I removed your name from my post. THE FORUM POLICE HAVE SPOKEN!!! Maybe you shouldn't post so much in public forums if you're so sensitive to people critiquing those posts...
I just want to add about the comment of changing zones when the chat is filled with "LFF, lvl 50 LFF". This is a common retort from the religious farmers out there. You say it isn't right for people to challenge your play style, I can empathize with that, I've been seeing a lot of posts recently about farming in game. And that common retort when it comes to the chat always comes up. As farmers, if you think it is unfair for people to think negative of you for farming, then is it not also unfair to tell people to change zones because of the chat chatter? I would think it more unfair to ask people to change zones because of the chat. The people who don't farm have just as much right to be in any zone in the game as the people who farm.
To the nonfarmers, if you do not like the chat filled with "LFF", you can remove the broadcast and request channels from your chat tab. And I know, you shouldn't have to do this because then you can't read those channels and see who is looking for a legitimate team. Maybe someone should suggest a player controlled chat filter from the options menu, where the players can define sets of keyword for the chat client to filter out for them, or the player chat with that keyword in it all together.
As for the rest of this argument, I have no comment. Till Paragon studios and NCSoft say that 'farming' is exploitative and will ban users that are caught doing it, I just say live and let live. You have your play style, and I have mine. 
Rachelthulu,
You are confusing and somewhat contradictive.
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they'll stop exploiters (which is what farmers are)
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From one of your antifarmer rants...
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You can no longer spawn snake eggs in MA arcs.
You can no longer spawn Vampyri Generators in MA Arcs.
You get no salvage or recipe drops from MA arcs.
All custom MA enemies must now have at least 1 attack based set.
All of these things were put in place to AVOID farming of 'easy' content with high rewards.
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But you want to....
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In exchange for your 0 influence gain you get an extra 10% chance of a drop from opponents. So now you're fighting more people AND getting more drops per farm. The Market isn't being glutted with more influence and the supply and demand rules can apply without farmers throwing the influence inflation further out of whack.
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You want to...increase reward...but you said you're against it.
Please pick a side Rachel. Or be a neutral...
Actually I have no problem with people playing level 50 toons. I have the three issues I've listed above.
Seriously. What do you want? I took the suggestion for 'Let Solo Players Spawn More enemies!' and the 'Difficulty Rating' thread's core ideal (Make Farming Easier for Me) and attempted to make it more palatable. Farming for Rares and for Recipes becomes FAR Easier. The prices on the market will drop because the supply is staying steady or increasing while the amount of influence in the system is no longer glutted.
We'll stop seeing the LFF! LFMFF! spam in broadcast on Peregrine/Grandville. The only thing left was getting the 'Farm Meh!' arcs organized in such a way so that people who don't WANT to farm don't have to see them when they do a search for arcs.
What exactly is the downside of this suggestion? If a Farmer decides he needs influence instead of more recipes (which is insane if you ask me, since Recipes and Salvage sell hardcore) he can kill Farming Mode and grab a team.
I don't see why you're opposed to this suggestion other than as a method of harassing me, Terp. You're making bold inferences on my intent in order to discredit me, you use my username specifically to caution other users 'Don't be like -her-! Noone will like you!' and you make ad-hominem attacks rather than discussing the benefits and drawbacks of the idea itself.
Please. Just stop replying to anything I say in any thread. Ever.
-Rachel-
Claiming Terp is harassing you is just as bad and against the forum rules...
Actually, SocioAlchemist, at this point I've come to terms that farmers will continue to exploit the reward system as I understand it's been structured. I've come to accept that nothing I say or do will stop it, and that you and several others will just naysay whatever logic I bring to the board. Whether it's inflationary or sociopolitical.
So this is a suggestion to minimize the damage Farming does. And it -does- do damage. You'll never convince me otherwise. But at least this way the Inflationary damage is mitigated to some extent, the Supply And Demand ratio is altered a BIT more towards supply, and people who hate seeing 'Farm!' can finally get rid of it.
This isn't me flipping sides. This is me capitulating to you and the others and saying 'How about this as a compromise?'
-Rachel-
Ah... I'm pretty sure I don't think this would do you're trying to accomplish here.
Either by 10% you mean a 1.10 multiplier on current drop rates, in which case people are going to generally ignore this option and continue doing as they're doing, or you mean a current rate + 10% (so 5% would become 15%), in which case you're vastly accelerating the amount of influence entering the system, as about half the influence that comes out of most farming runs is the result of selling common IO recipes to vendors. If the former, the drop rate on purples wouldn't increase enough to be worthwhile (the .01% or whatever it is now would become one-one thousandth of a percent higher); if the latter, it would increase a thousandfold.
People farm because it's profitable. It gets them a lot of inf which they can then use to purchase the precise goods they desire. Saying, "hey! You should do this less profitable thing because it's more responsible!" will have exactly as much impact on the farming 'community' as it does on Wall Street.
Besides, we already have a much better method of price control in the game -- merits. That will gradually force market prices for items to conform to a rarity scale corresponding to merit costs, with adjustments for very high or very low demand. And since even the most expensive recipes (shy of purples and pvps) and salvage are now obtainable by all players with a relative minimum of effort, the fact that there *is* inflation is largely irrelevant -- they are just as able to acquire and sell those items as anyone else (eg, 65 million for one LotG +7.5% recharge, which costs 240 merits or about 8 runs of Signature task forces. No matter how much you can sell it for, it will continue to cost about 8 TFs of time investment). SOs, which are what the game is still balanced around, are still on a fixed price scale and will be afaik forever. It's not unreasonable for the developers to expect players to learn about IOs, merits, and the market at essentially the same time, precluding concerns about inexperienced players being thrust into a world of "must-have" gear they can't afford.
I see what you're trying to do, but some annoyances you just have to learn to live with in MMOs. They are, after all, a form of social interaction.
Well, personally, I like the idea about having the choice of removing influence for a higher drop rate.
I can compromise with that.
But we still need a real influence/infamy sink...
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We'll stop seeing the LFF! LFMFF! spam in broadcast on Peregrine/Grandville. The only thing left was getting the 'Farm Meh!' arcs organized in such a way so that people who don't WANT to farm don't have to see them when they do a search for arcs.
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People who don't want to see farm arcs in MA when searching for arcs won't see them, because they won't be searching for 'farm' in their search option.
I know just scrolling through the list will display them, but there are filter options to help avoid that as well.
And if you still see them in MA, and you feel it is truly a farm arc, then report it through the architect interface. It's already been said by the devs that they will bring down any arcs that are geared towards farming.
Thank you, SocioAlchemist. Sadly, this isn't the thread to discuss a decent money sink. Though maybe we could talk about it in private messages, come up with something, and post a thread on it? Feel Free to PM me if you like.
As for not finding Farming Arcs?
So far the best way -I've- found to avoid farming arcs is to highlight a search for heroes or villains content and search for Farm. Lots of people add (This is not a Farm Arc) or (Don't come here for Farming). The vast majority of Farm Arcs are Neutral, so they get the most exposure.
The folder Solution would still alleviate that problem fully, though. =-3
-Rachel-
you should stop worring about what i do with my money and my toons.
nothing wrong with farming.i dont exploit badges like so many others and i didnt exploit merits from arcs like so many others did.
we are the main reason and source there are actaully things IN the market for you to buy.non farmers typically horde their stuff in their base like packrats to never use or for "incase" i need it someday.
day i cant farm when i want ill quit this friggin game and go somewhere else and so will a TON of people
and you might think its ok...but remember this is a buisness first not your fake life story to escape real life. so at the end of the day no money = shut the game down
anyone here who thinks they will keep this game open for just a few of you is kidding yourself.
Go Back.
Re-Read.
Then realize that I'm not trying to say 'all f/-\rm4rz must leeve mah game!'
Then Re-Write your response.
Proof Read It.
Then post it.
-Rachel-
*edit*
I'd like to apologize for the snappiness in this post. I was taken aback and put on the defensive by the vitriol launched at me from someone who obviously didn't understand the suggestion. Apologies.
qr
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you should stop worring about what i do with my money and my toons.
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Did she say she had a problem with Coldmed teh farmer?
No.
We're throwing ideas around about the practice of farming, which is generally done by a portion of the population, not just you.
Think of it like this. I don't care what you do with your time, money, or hamsters. But I do care about the effect your actions may or may not have.
Any way, if you actually read the thread, you would see that this isn't a 'omg, git rid of farmin!' thread.
plz, lrn2rd
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this isn't a 'omg, git rid of farmin!' thread.
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Which, coming from me, is a shocker! =-3
-Rachel-
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Actually I have no problem with people playing level 50 toons. I have the three issues I've listed above.
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Hmmm. You did (incorrectly) point out that level 50's EARNING money has a negative impact on the market.
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Players running from level 1 to level 50 WILL ADD money to the market. But compared to the amount that a level 50 character adds over the cuorse of a few farm runs it's a paltry amount.
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You seem to be suggesting that level 50's running farm missions are the only ones adding significant amounts of influence into the game. That is simply wrong. Level 50's, regardless of whether they are farming or running regular missions, are EARNING large amounts of influence, far and above what players can earn at lower levels. Your REAL problem appears to be with players PLAYING their level 50 characters in any way that earns them large amounts of influence.
(Note: You may also want to consider following your own advice and proofread your posts, using spell check)
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I don't see why you're opposed to this suggestion
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I like the idea of having better search features to sort through the thousands of missions.
I don't like the suggestion in the OP, and I'd list ALL the reasons why, but you'd simply accuse me of harassment and wouldn't respond to any points I make anyway.
(Special note for Rachelthulu: If you NEVER mention my name again, and never comment on any topic for which I might also be inclined to provide my opinion, then I will never respond to any of your posts.)
Hey, that's not bad. Sounds reasonable to me. (Before I've read the thread of course )
Sooo.... You'll never respond to my posts so long as they are in topics you wouldn't post in anyway...?
Why not just say 'No' instead of trying to get cute with it?
Regardless of what I seem to be saying. regardless of what I might be saying..
Please. Post your reasons for thinking this is a bad idea. Show me the negatives so I can address them. I won't accuse you of harrassment because it won't be harrassment so long as it's constructive criticisms, rather than vitriol.
-Rachel-
Okay, I thought about the idea regarding increased spawn sizes, decreased influence, and increased drops.
I'd rather it be set up similar to our Hero Corps system, with different levels regarding the decreased Influence and increased Drops. Have different levels of that, ranging from "normal" to "Zero Influence, Highest Percentage", so players can choose from a variety. If I want half Influence, but increased chances of drops, (assuming data mining to find the appropriate balance) I could enjoy the gain, no matter what level I was. It would be, essentially "paying for increased drops".
I don't know if it needs to be tied to the idea of "be your own team", but I like that as a separate idea.
If nothing else, regarding Tabs in the MArc system, I would want searches by Level ranges, or tabs by level ranges, first. Being able to find missions based in a certain range (even something as vague as "Low (1-20), Medium (20-35), High (35-50)" would make me happy.
This was a bad idea the first time it was posted.
This was a bad idea the last time it was posted.
This is still a bad idea.
It will continue to be a bad idea.
Farming throws off the market. It exploits a very small amount of content with low risk/high reward ratio. It annoys people who don't farm or dislike the idea of it when they get tells asking to farm or pad or bridge.
Farming is not suggested by the Devs. Farming is not a well liked practice and, for that reason, the Devs have consistently altered the way things are handled to -avoid- farming.
Asking the Devs to put something in the game solely for the purpose of farming when they have time and again shown that they don't condone the act is a waste of time. I'll be bookmarking this response to copy-paste to all further farming threads.
-MunkiLord-
I realize that people farm.
For some it's just the thrill of taking on a large mob with AoEs, for others it's the joy of finding purples or rare recipes. And for others it's a tool to powerlevel teammates.
The only real issues -I- have with farming are the effect it has on the market through inflation and the annoying omnipresence of 'LFF! Level 50 (insert AT here) LFF!' And the wide variety of 'Farm Meh!' arcs in the Mission Architect.
So here's a solution to all three problems!
First issue. The Influence glutting the market. Let's make a 'Farming Mode' accessible through the options menu. Either there or by hitting up a trainer or something. Don't call it 'Farming Mode', of course! But that's what it really is.
In Farming Mode you gain 0influence from enemies defeated, but you still gain the influence from mission completes. In exchange you can set yourself to be a team. Forcing the missions to spawn as if you were on a team with up to 7 other people.
In exchange for your 0 influence gain you get an extra 10% chance of a drop from opponents. So now you're fighting more people AND getting more drops per farm. The Market isn't being glutted with more influence and the supply and demand rules can apply without farmers throwing the influence inflation further out of whack.
Now for the mission architect create several folder tabs with different designations.
Story Driven
Character Driven
Comedy
For Fun
Character Story
Canon
You could even add in some more!
Clones
Zombies
Time Travel
Mutants
Magic
Science
Tech
Natural
However many you want.
The point is you now have all the various arcs organized and separated into folders. For Fun could be the home of Farming Arcs. Doesn't get rid of them, but sure gets them out of sight (and mind) from players who don't want to see them or play them.
Now... We need to limit Farming Mode to keep people from hitting it, then stealthing a map, turning it off, and gaining full Influence/Infamy/Rewards. So let's DEFINITELY make it something you have to talk to a level trainer about, make it apply only to -your- missions, and have it auto-reset missions in progress. If someone is currently ON the mission they are immediately booted by the reset.
Seem Fair?
-Rachel-