I love the folder idea
I like how Rach can laugh at her own post.
Anyway. I like the folder idea too. Someway to categorize all the junk that flows in would be appreciated.
Actually I was laughing at Munki bringing it back. I already explained, earlier in the thread, why my position changed. I still don't think the Devs would go for it, though this idea might be a bit more palatable to them, since it balances the higher rewards gained with some lost rewards.
I can laugh at myself. =-3
-Rachel-
I don't actually have a problem with the concept, it seems reasonable. I would prefer some influence gain, maybe 10% or so of what you would normally make. After all, it does cost influence to list all those wonderful drops.
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Please. Post your reasons for thinking this is a bad idea. Show me the negatives so I can address them.
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For one, your idea doesn't even correct the problems you are trying to address. If the rewards are lowered for your "farming mode" option, players will continue to use the same farming methods in place currently.
I strongly prefer the other suggestions that have been posted that would allow folks to set missions for a certain number of team members regardless of the number of players actually teamed, without reducing the rewards available in the mission. Players should not be penalized for playing their characters to their full potential and taking on as many enemies as they need to in order to be challenged or have fun.
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Folders and Increased Search Options
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Very few folks would be against improved search options. I know I'd like to be able to search by custom groups (I only want to play arcs with custom enemies), whether or not a mission contains certain objectives, and by difficulty rating (generated by either the arc creator or those who've run the arc).
I'd like to be able to place arcs in folders of my own such as "Favorites" and "Complete Trash" or other similar categories.
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For Fun could be the home of Farming Arcs. Doesn't get rid of them, but sure gets them out of sight (and mind) from players who don't want to see them or play them.
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So far the best way -I've- found to avoid farming arcs is to highlight a search for heroes or villains content and search for Farm.
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Seriously!??!?! Hilarious! You search for "Farm" arcs and are surprised that you end up playing farm missions? Maybe you should try a different approach. For example, I've noticed that by not searching for the word "Farm" when I'm searching through arcs, I can look at page after page of arcs without seeing any that are clearly designed for exploitable farming purposes.
TERP's QUICK TIP of the day: When looking through the available arcs, look for arcs that have descriptions longer than three words. Most of the arcs you're trying to avoid were created by folks who don't spend a lot of time adding text.
(Yesterday's Quick Tip (unpublished): Not every arc that has multiple bosses was intended to be used as a farm.)
Okay! Well! Part 1!
It could have some impact. Players who choose to get more drops rather than static influence have the option of doing so. Any person who does so helps to lower the amount of incoming influence. Plus they don't have to spam for team invites. The latter might be an incentive for farmers to use the Farm Mode function to save themselves time.
Yes, I realize EVERYONE likes the 'Get it all as if I had 8 people on the team while I'm solo' idea. But it would never fly because it's an exploit of the system. You don't understand how and I don't feel like explaining it again. So let's just call it a compromise between all or nothing.
I'm glad you'd like to have the folders option. I think most people would be happy with it!
Actually I did a search for farming arcs just to do a head count on them. I found only one Villain 'farm' arc, 0 Hero 'farm' arcs, and about 15 Neutral ones that hadn't been taken down yet.
But then I found a pile of 'Not a Farm' arcs and thought I'd share it with ya.
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So far the best way -I've- found to avoid farming arcs is to highlight a search for heroes or villains content and search for Farm.
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The bolded word means I DIDN'T play any farm arcs, by the way.
-Rachel-
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Yes, I realize EVERYONE likes the 'Get it all as if I had 8 people on the team while I'm solo' idea. But it would never fly because it's an exploit of the system. You don't understand.
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See, I'd say that it is you who doesn't understand
.
If a player sets a map for 8 people and tries to clear it, he is not exploiting the system.
I'm currently playing a stalker, and I'd get wrecked trying to clear a mission set for 8. Would I be exploiting the system by going in and getting killed repeatedly? Obviously not.
Would I be exploiting the system if I set the mission for 2 players and was able to clear it with my stalker? No.
Some things are true even if you don't agree with them. I know, it may be tough for you to understand.
Your concern appears to center around folks who are "overpowered" relative to the average player and are capable of killing more bad guys faster than others. Maybe instead of taking out all your aggression on farming, you should simply create post after post of "Nerf X" and "Nerf Y" since it's these players who can do what you can't that are the underlying problem.
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So far the best way -I've- found to avoid farming arcs is to highlight a search for heroes or villains content and search for Farm.
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It gets funnier every time I read it!
You are complaining a lot about the farm arcs, and them being "in sight." If you don't search for "Farm" you might find that they are out of sight a majority of the time. Ignore my tips if you want. I'm just trying to help you out.
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Avoiding farm teams by changing zones? Don't tell me how to play the game
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I'm not telling you how to play the game. I'm telling you if that the "MArc team LFF" is bothering you, change zones. It's that simple. I don't see how doing that affects your gameplay at all other than taking thirty seconds to switch zones.
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while I'm giving you alternative options to pad your team to get more drops.
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Point to where I said I farm.
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And that doesn't help when I'm looking through Mish Architect arcs, anyhow.
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Actually it can since you won't be bothered by it if you just change zones, but it appears that the farm messages really don't bother you at all since you're unwilling to change zones.
By telling me to change zones you're telling me to play different content. Tina McIntyre's arcs generally focus on the northern end of Peregrine Island. So that is more than a 30 second effect on my play.
Great! You don't Farm! Then voice your opinion of how this would effect farming/the market/you and add to the discussion.
When I'm looking through the MA arcs and see reams of Mah Arc which consists of one giant Freakshow room and the story text of 'XP' it's more farming I'm forced to become aware of. Making the folders would alleviate that.
Please! Feel free to state an opinion on the topic at hand, but don't derail the thread.
-Rachel-
I'm not derailing the thread. Part of your post read that you dislike people spamming "LFF" messages for MArcs. And by helping you, I'm suggesting that you change zones.
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By telling me to change zones you're telling me to play different content. Tina McIntyre's arcs generally focus on the northern end of Peregrine Island. So that is more than a 30 second effect on my play.
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Once again, I'm not telling you on how to play this game nor am I forcing you to play different content. I'm merely offering you to change zones, but since you think I'm somehow forcing you to play differently how about you turn off broadcast?
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When I'm looking through the MA arcs and see reams of Mah Arc which consists of one giant Freakshow room and the story text of 'XP' it's more farming I'm forced to become aware of. Making the folders would alleviate that.
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Was it "Who Cares 2" arc? Because that was in no way a farm at all.
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Please! Feel free to state an opinion on the topic at hand, but don't derail the thread.
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I think it's a horrible idea and hope to never see it in the game.
For people who want to powerlevel and farm, just leave them alone. They haven't done anything to you.
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For people who want to powerlevel and farm, just leave them alone. They haven't done anything to you.
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Except increase the rate of inflation, chase me out of zones, annoy the piss out of me, send me random tells, throw repeated blind invites in my face, and gotten uppity when I dared to tell them 'No. I don't want to be a bridge'.
I've stated, repeatedly, how Farming affects the market. I'm not going to get back into that. Suffice it to say they DO affect anyone who uses the market. They DO affect the casual gamer (which our game consists primarily of)
I'm glad you think it's a horrible suggestion. Really, I am!~ It means you know how bad it makes me feel to post it, as a person who REALLY dislikes the idea of farming.
-Rachel-
TL
R version
Great idea on lowered inf rate on farming and allowing spawn size increase!
/signed
The little longer version:
Coldmed said
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day I cant farm when I want ill quit this friggin game and go somewhere else and so will a TON of people
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Calm down there, shes not talking about getting rid of farming all together, its a compromise. Youll still be able to farm.
So on to topic, Ill try to avoid the economic issue somewhat because I have different theories that you do regarding inf in the system.
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In Farming Mode you gain 0influence from enemies defeated
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Im not completely ok with this. In farming mode, the influence should scale to as if you were running solo. Just because someone would rather fight larger groups because its more fun shouldnt completely eliminate influence gain. That being said, I dont even think about influence gain through missions anymore, so if it suddenly did drop to 0, I may not even notice. The bulk of my influence comes from drops sold on WW.
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In exchange for your 0 influence gain you get an extra 10% chance of a drop from opponents.
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This isnt really necessary. The drops from soloing a 6 man mission are quite a bit. I leave a mission with my salvage and recipe slots almost filled. I wouldnt mind the increase though.
Another problem I see is not allowing a 2 man or larger team to set a team size spawn larger than the number of people on the team. I think that this should also be added. It would allow a 4 person team who can steamroll groups to raise the level to a team size of 8 for added fun.
I agree with you on adding a farming tab in MA to weed out farming missions. I know there are some odd farming missions out there with only minions, or only lts, etc, and those are the ones that can be weeded out. Farming missions through MA could be made to contain better story content as well, i.e. A MA description with a suggested team setting size if soloing. There is a lot of potential with a system like this for farmers, RPers, and casual players alike.
The thing I really like about this idea, it will give Developers power over farmers. I try to leave percentages and drop rates up to them, as they try to adjust to what we do , and how much stuff we should have available total as a community of players. This in turn sets a rough price on what each person is willing to pay. Being able to adjust what a farmer can get would be a huge gain in power for them, which sometimes makes me wonder if they want to leave it the way it is since they havent addressed the issue yet.
I would like to see something like this added simply because missions are just too easy to solo with the addition of IOs. Seriously, 3 minions, or 1 lt . . . If you played a rikti monkey that was fully IOd out, youd be able to breeze through any mission. Thats why I never solo with a 50 without first looking for fill, or play on teams when I am on my 50.
Speculating about what it would do to other players, it is possible that other players will solo more often, but it cant be much worse than what MA has done. I look for people to join a team, and half the people logged in are working on an MA arc. Like every other change, its a fad and would wear off.
Would there be a mass outpouring of people quiting the game? I wouldnt leave if this were implemented. Id be estatic if they allowed more rewards based on a difficulty setting since Ive wanted it for the last 2 years. I seriously doubt people would leave as long as the rewards equaled the risk of fighting larger groups.
The main problem would be where to set the drop percentages. Leaving drop percentages the same, or raising them will increase supply in Wentworths. Lowering them will leave them the same, and lowering them to much will worsen the supply. Influence should be scaled back for a farm setting, but not completely eliminated.
I say this with hesitancy, but xp should be scaled back as well with this change, and data mining should be done immediately afterwards and adjust the amount of xp gained over a community.
Finally, what if someone looks for fill, and tries to farm the old way? The new system needs to be linked to the potential of this happening, so however many people fill, it will have to have the same effect as if using a farm setting, otherwise this is all for naught. People quitting a team shouldn't have an effect on drop rates since the spawn engine spawns groups as you see them, and not all at once when entering a mission. The amount of change to add this will pretty much make this its own issue. Is this much work worth implementing since it really already exists using fill/padding? I think it is ... /signed
I always feel so ignored when I try to talk reasonable-like. =P
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I always feel so ignored when I try to talk reasonable-like. =P
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I don't know why I put so much effort into it.
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I always feel so ignored when I try to talk reasonable-like. =P
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Happens to me alot 2, i beleive it has something to do with our exposure to TW drama from being on triumph
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For people who want to powerlevel and farm, just leave them alone. They haven't done anything to you.
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Except increase the rate of inflation, chase me out of zones, annoy the piss out of me, send me random tells, throw repeated blind invites in my face, and gotten uppity when I dared to tell them 'No. I don't want to be a bridge'.
I've stated, repeatedly, how Farming affects the market. I'm not going to get back into that. Suffice it to say they DO affect anyone who uses the market. They DO affect the casual gamer (which our game consists primarily of)
I'm glad you think it's a horrible suggestion. Really, I am!~ It means you know how bad it makes me feel to post it, as a person who REALLY dislikes the idea of farming.
-Rachel-
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For all those who keep claiming that farmers are having a negative effect on the rest of us, I'm curious about something.
Is it not true that we now have more stuff than ever? We can quibble about inflation all we want, but that apparently is not having any negative effect on our ability to acquire things.
For various reasons (that all apply) I now have more costume options, more respecs, more influence, better enhancements, a bigger base, more things to do, and a generally more well rounded character than I ever had before. I'm going to suggest that this is an almost universal condition.
So where exactly is this negative impact? (from a monetary standpoint...the irritation factor is self imposed)
I still like your idea. 
Sorry, Jack! Your thoughtful and insightful post went unnoticed in the flurry of drama I was caught in. I'm sorry!
I actually don't -know- the drop-rates offhand. I'm not precisely sure what the appropriate increase in rate would need to be.
But given the idea of dropping the influence gain to 0 they're only adding to the supply of recipes and salvage. Sure they'll make boatloads of money off the items they sell, but it won't add new money to the system.
Increased supply to meet the steady demand with somewhat lowered inflation.
The biggest problem -I- can see is getting the point across to the farmers that kicking themselves into this mode of gaining is a good idea. So many will see the 0 inf part and immediately back away screaming and moaning over how unfair it is to give up one reward for another.
Which, to anyone who has ever done game balance, is pretty much mandatory...
-Rachel-
Maybe the dev's want the large increase to the influence supply to help the economy?
>.>
<.<
Maybe they're Democrats . . .
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But given the idea of dropping the influence gain to 0 they're only adding to the supply of recipes and salvage. Sure they'll make boatloads of money off the items they sell, but it won't add new money to the system.
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No, that was part of my point -- they will! Boatloads of it. Vendor, by which I mean in-game "Store" entites, generate new money when you sell something to them. And the most common fate for a L50 Common IO recipe is vendoring for a juicy 100K+. So you figure on your standard solo farming run, people already come close to filling up on 30 recipes, with about 2/3rds of that being Common IOs. That's 2 mil entering the system per 20-30 minute run. So I don't think it's really doing even what you want in the first place.
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The biggest problem -I- can see is getting the point across to the farmers that kicking themselves into this mode of gaining is a good idea. So many will see the 0 inf part and immediately back away screaming and moaning over how unfair it is to give up one reward for another.
Which, to anyone who has ever done game balance, is pretty much mandatory...
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Yeah, but when you sell something like this, you want the "thing you get" to be shiny and big, and the "thing you give up" to be small and insignificant. (Get these AMAZING NEW KNIVES! They cut through onions, tomatoes, meat, bone, EVEN SOLID BRICK! for only three easy payments of 39.99!) This comes across more like "GET ZERO INFLUENCE! For getting a statistically insignificant increase to your drop rates that will, as a game-wide effect, slightly increase the commonality of purple recipes on the market -- which is pretty much the only thing you're really farming for, since most people want Pool C recipes anyway."
I don't think you can offer anything that is balanced and shiny that would convince the mass of people to give up a proven method -- what they're doing now -- and try out this new thing. And I think that of those who do try it, many of them will simply go back to what they were doing before, because it either is (depending on the drop rate increase) or seems (because even on a run where you get crap, you get a couple million influence for kills) more profitable.
And I don't really think it's necessary. You didn't comment on the stabilizing effects of merit buys; what do you think of that?
The 'average' income from vendoring recipes at level 50 is about 1650 /minion
(my current spreadsheet is lacking the exact weighting of the common drops I learnt a few weeks ago)
This is comparable to the inf earned by defeating an even con minion out of SG mode. In SG mode obviously the difference is even greater.
<edit>
I threw in the weighting for level 50s (not done the whole range yet). That ups the average to 2055 inf/minion. (EndRec, Acc, Dam, Recharge being the heaviest weighted in drop chance)
<edit2>
Fixed the comments versu the minion inf, as I was looking at the old (presmoothing) data table at the time.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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The 'average' income from vendoring recipes at level 50 is about 1650
(my current spreadshett is lacking the exact weighting of the common drops I learnt a few weeks ago)
This exceeds the inf earned by defeating an even con minion out of SG mode. In SG mode obviously the difference is even greater.
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I'm not sure I can productively interpret that (at least without working up a spreadsheet of my own that figures out the drop rate of Common IOs vs the drop rate of uncommon/rare IOs vs the number of minions, lts, and bosses on an 8-size Unyielding or Invincible team), but thanks for the information!
Drop rates for recipes
32/41 = common
8/41 = uncommon
1/41= rare
Chance for drop
2.6667% Minion
5.333% LT
8% Boss
100% AV*
*Some AVs are marked to drop only like bosses due to farming. the obvious example being Baracuda redside.
For comparision under the old XP scale, a level 50 minion provided 1297 inf, under the revised scale it is
2006. All obvious base/soloing values.
(so up 2 posts I made an error comparing the drop rate to the old inf/minion value)
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Okay... so let me get this straight.
Every time a foe dies there's a percentile roll to check if a recipe is dropped. The percentile varies by the type of the mob in question.
After a positive roll occurs a 1-41 lottery roll comes up to see what kind of recipe it is.
Followed by a weighted roll on the appropriate table (common, uncommon, rare) to see what the actual recipe is.
Could you run the numbers on a spreadsheet assuming double the normal drop rate?
5.2224% for minions
10.666% for lieutenants
16% for bosses
I'd like to see how the average Farmer in Farming mode would make out in total gained influence/infamy off recipe sales.
-Rachel-
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After a positive roll occurs a 1-41 lottery roll comes up to see what kind of recipe it is.
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I think that's just approximiation of the percentile values used (there's no entry there for purples, which have a drop rate less than their total number out of all rares).
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Followed by a weighted roll on the appropriate table (common, uncommon, rare) to see what the actual recipe is.
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I don't think there's any weight on that roll, only on Merit and Ticket reward rolls.
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This was a bad idea the first time it was posted.
This was a bad idea the last time it was posted.
This is still a bad idea.
It will continue to be a bad idea.
Farming throws off the market. It exploits a very small amount of content with low risk/high reward ratio. It annoys people who don't farm or dislike the idea of it when they get tells asking to farm or pad or bridge.
Farming is not suggested by the Devs. Farming is not a well liked practice and, for that reason, the Devs have consistently altered the way things are handled to -avoid- farming.
Asking the Devs to put something in the game solely for the purpose of farming when they have time and again shown that they don't condone the act is a waste of time. I'll be bookmarking this response to copy-paste to all further farming threads.
-MunkiLord-
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Lulz!
Anyway, Yan-Yan!
I think that's another workable idea. Obviously I don't know the drop rates and metrics well enough to extrapolate an appropriate percentage, much less a variable one. Though I do like the concept.
-Rachel-