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I think that you should not be able to rate an arc 1 or 2 stars without leaving a comment. It is way too easy to kill somebody's hard work with an anonymous 1 or 2 star rating, especially if it is one of the first couple of ratings the story gets.
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Ok....so let's say I rate an arc one star and then for a comment I leave "this arc sucks". Is that a good enough comment? Is that sufficient??? That's why I don't see any value of "forcing" someone to leave a comment if they want to rate an arc 1 or 2 stars.
Here's my two cents...if you are are going to put yourself out there and develop missions for everyone to play then you better be prepared to deal with the criticism. Some of that criticism will come in the form of constructive comments and sometimes it will come in the form of a rating of 1 or 2 stars. I get the feeling there is a "a one or two star rating isn't fair" mentality developing in this thread. But when you put your work out there for public consumption there is not such thing as fair. We live in a "star" based system from everything from movies, albums, products, etc...
I understand that people have worked hard on developing their missions, but you have to understand that some folks are going to be brutal when it comes to providing a review of your missions. I look at it like this, if you create a kick butt mission then folks will want to play it, they will tell others to play it, and you will receive the glory you are craving. Some folks don't even care about ratings, if the mission sounds interesting then they will play it. Bottom line I think if you are going to create missions you better have a thick skin.
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I've decided not to so much pay attention to the rating vs. reading the arc description. If it looks interesting I'll play it and give it a fair shot.
Some people actually design their missions to be hard, challenging, and entertaining. That what is so fraking great about this new release. People were complaining about old and blah missions and wanted something fresh. Personally, I can't remember the last time I was this excited about playing this game. I really really tip my hat to the CoH/CoV team.
Anyhoo, it's not the fault of the mission creator that there are segments of virtual wussies out there that tuck tail and run at the first sign of a challenge or hard fight. I'm finding that if a mission is really good and fun to play that word gets around. At least that's been the case for me.
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The problem is different people want different things.
Some people want a challenge, some people only want tickets, some want a great story.
By fufilling one its very likely you could upset the other players.
Now compound that whats challening for a fire blaster might very well be a cake walk for a plant dominator.
This is like watching an epic train wreck.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
The problem is the system doesnt allow you to dig through the thousands and thousands of arcs easily
This makes it so finding anything other than 5 stars is an excercise in futility.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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[ QUOTE ]
I think that you should not be able to rate an arc 1 or 2 stars without leaving a comment. It is way too easy to kill somebody's hard work with an anonymous 1 or 2 star rating, especially if it is one of the first couple of ratings the story gets.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok....so let's say I rate an arc one star and then for a comment I leave "this arc sucks". Is that a good enough comment? Is that sufficient??? That's why I don't see any value of "forcing" someone to leave a comment if they want to rate an arc 1 or 2 stars.
Here's my two cents...if you are are going to put yourself out there and develop missions for everyone to play then you better be prepared to deal with the criticism. Some of that criticism will come in the form of constructive comments and sometimes it will come in the form of a rating of 1 or 2 stars. I get the feeling there is a "a one or two star rating isn't fair" mentality developing in this thread. But when you put your work out there for public consumption there is not such thing as fair. We live in a "star" based system from everything from movies, albums, products, etc...
I understand that people have worked hard on developing their missions, but you have to understand that some folks are going to be brutal when it comes to providing a review of your missions. I look at it like this, if you create a kick butt mission then folks will want to play it, they will tell others to play it, and you will receive the glory you are craving. Some folks don't even care about ratings, if the mission sounds interesting then they will play it. Bottom line I think if you are going to create missions you better have a thick skin.
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I agre with much of what you are saying. I am just offering up a suggestion based on a lot of players feelings.
I don't think you would actually see much of the "this arc sucks" comments, particularly if the commentator has arcs of his own.
I agree 100% with you though, if you are going to put your stuff out there, you better have a thick enough skin to take what comes your way. But I also believe if you are going to rate something 1 or 2 stars, then you should 'man up' so to speak and tell a person why.
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The problem is the system doesnt allow you to dig through the thousands and thousands of arcs easily
This makes it so finding anything other than 5 stars is an excercise in futility.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pick one or several star ratings you want to examine, or unrated, plus your choice of alignment and length. Sort by whatever you like. Hit the page buttons to get out into the middle of things and start poking around physically randomly like running your hand along a bookcase.
It's not handed to you on a platter, it's not even ideal, but it's not really hard, either.
"I think you're confused. This is /b, not /b/."
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The first fix I think the rating system should have is that no one can rate an arc unless they have completed it (but can leave a comment).
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The problem here is that I have run into a couple of missions that I was unable to finish.
One had Akarist set as an AV (downgraded to EB when I played). You did get an EB as an aid, but the designer threw in several hard Ambushes while fighting Akarist and the EB would get taken out before the fight with Akarist was over. (Tried the arc with two different characters and it happened both times). My characters couldn't do enough damage to Akarist to take him out without outside help.
If your mission is set up so I can't complete it solo without calling out Shivans, why should I be disallowed from rating it just because I didn't happen to have one handy? Especially if I've gone through 4 1/2 mission in your arc before stalling out.
Mission arcs that can be impossible to complete SHOULD be rated, and the rating should be less than if they can always be completed.
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
I would go as far as say that one-star bandits are killing the MA. It is a huge way to discourage creative players to keep producing quality arcs. I hope something is going to be done...soon.
[COLOR=darkorchid]Nebulhym's AE Arcs: Try them now![/COLOR]
# 12647: Of feathers and fur...[COLOR=yellow]Winner of [B]The American Legion[/B]'s January 2011 AE Author Contest![/COLOR]
# 292389: From Tartarus with love...
# 459592: Interdimensional Headache
This game has more than 100k subscribers. If even 10% of the subscribers publish a story arc each, that's more than 10k arcs to wade through. As it is, when I published my first arc, I had an ID of 16k.
The browser makes it rather difficult to wade through all the thousands of story arcs. For a player who doesn't have a lot of time to read and wade through the descriptions, where is she going to start with? Naturally the 4 and 5 stars. Most players are not going to come into the AE browser thinking "oh, there is a lot of 1 star griefing going on, so the good ones must be in the 1 and 2 stars".
As a result, organized griefing becomes very profitable, because the 4 and 5 star arcs stay near the top few pages, which is about the patience limit of most players who wants to find a story arc to play. These few will get a lot more exposure and the feedback cycle will occur because they will get rated more and stay top, even if they are really just average.
And that is another problem. Most of the story arcs outside of AE is average. People casually wanting to play a story arc won't have high expectations and if it's just slightly better than the CoX story arcs, they won't get 1 or 2 starred. What the rating systems should do is help push the real gems up to the top, and I don't see that happening.
Rewards for rating story arcs compounds the problem. This gives extra incentives to grief good story arcs to push them to the bottom of the pit, giving them less exposure. In fact, I would hazard to argue that giving rewards is probably the reason we have this griefing. I thought good mission creators will be glad that people play their missions, not to login and find how many tickets are waiting for her to claim.
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The problem is the system doesnt allow you to dig through the thousands and thousands of arcs easily
This makes it so finding anything other than 5 stars is an excercise in futility.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pick one or several star ratings you want to examine, or unrated, plus your choice of alignment and length. Sort by whatever you like. Hit the page buttons to get out into the middle of things and start poking around physically randomly like running your hand along a bookcase.
It's not handed to you on a platter, it's not even ideal, but it's not really hard, either.
[/ QUOTE ]
which means 99.9999999% of the players will never do it..
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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I would go as far as say that one-star bandits are killing the MA. It is a huge way to discourage creative players to keep producing quality arcs. I hope something is going to be done...soon.
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MA has only been live for all of 3-4 days?? And one star bandits are killing it??
From what I have seen the Freedom Server alone has been packed since MA was released. You would have thought that it was double XP weekend. So can we wait at least wait a week MA before we exclaim the sky is falling, save the women & children and pronounce MA as being dead?
Give it some time, the good quality arcs will receive the proper credit they deserve.
I'm sorry I don't think the real issue is the fear that utilizing the one star system will kill MA. The real issue appears to be that people want to publish their work in a public venue, but don't want to deal with the harsh criticism that comes from being in the spotlight. I'm not advocating hurting the feelings of those folks who worked hard to come up with missions/story arcs. However, please understand that not everyone who does your missions is going to rate them 5 stars. If you are willing to accept the praise that comes along with a 4-5 star rating, then conversely you need to be able to stomach a few 1-2 ratings that may not include any supporting comments.
It ain't easy running a MMOG....
The problem as has been said.
Is any rating under a 5 means it will never see the light of day again.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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The real issue appears to be that people want to publish their work in a public venue, but don't want to deal with the harsh criticism that comes from being in the spotlight.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or, hey, maybe the issue is what everybody in this thread keeps saying the issue is, and not that they're all a bunch of WATBs.
I announced my first mission about the same time as Beef Cake did, and got the same one-star, didn't play review, so I'm pretty sure somebody was just going "LOL [censored] u bagar LMAO". Yeah, clearly if I find that feedback dubious, I must be too fragile to handle "harsh criticism".
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If you are willing to accept the praise that comes along with a 4-5 star rating, then conversely you need to be able to stomach a few 1-2 ratings that may not include any supporting comments.
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I am sorry but I don't understand what this has to do with this thread.
[COLOR=darkorchid]Nebulhym's AE Arcs: Try them now![/COLOR]
# 12647: Of feathers and fur...[COLOR=yellow]Winner of [B]The American Legion[/B]'s January 2011 AE Author Contest![/COLOR]
# 292389: From Tartarus with love...
# 459592: Interdimensional Headache
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I think your system is actually good for the ratings system. No one is going to pay you a million unless they think the arc is good and they're making a go of it. It lets us sort out the arcs people have put love into from those that are just a joke. I'd pay you, but I have plenty of friends to 5 star my arcs for me already.
[/ QUOTE ]
A million is nothing. If that's all people charge, I can get a really crappy arc into the hall of fame and still have influence left over.
1 Star Bandits a problem? Try 5 Star Bandits.
Today, just about every 5 star mission arc I tried was somebody's farm mission. No contact dialogue, no plot, no descriptions, etc.
One of them had 5 stars and 6 players voting on it. I have a real mission. It got two votes of 5 stars, then one of 3 and hasn't been touched since it's now behind pages and pages of <expletive> missions with phony ratings.
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
[ QUOTE ]
1 Star Bandits a problem? Try 5 Star Bandits.
Today, just about every 5 star mission arc I tried was somebody's farm mission. No contact dialogue, no plot, no descriptions, etc.
One of them had 5 stars and 6 players voting on it. I have a real mission. It got two votes of 5 stars, then one of 3 and hasn't been touched since it's now behind pages and pages of <expletive> missions with phony ratings.
[/ QUOTE ]
This...I've played several missions rated 5 stars that were nothing more than Farms, author barely bothered to add any dialouge.
COH/CoV - Virtue
8 Ball - Lev 50 Kin/Energy Defender
The Canadian Fist - Lev 50 Ice/EM Blaster
Omega Ghost - Lev 50 Robo/Dark MM
Ghostfall - Lev 50 Arachnos Crab Soldier
[ QUOTE ]
The problem here is that I have run into a couple of missions that I was unable to finish.
One had Akarist set as an AV (downgraded to EB when I played). You did get an EB as an aid, but the designer threw in several hard Ambushes while fighting Akarist and the EB would get taken out before the fight with Akarist was over. (Tried the arc with two different characters and it happened both times). My characters couldn't do enough damage to Akarist to take him out without outside help.
If your mission is set up so I can't complete it solo without calling out Shivans, why should I be disallowed from rating it just because I didn't happen to have one handy? Especially if I've gone through 4 1/2 mission in your arc before stalling out.
Mission arcs that can be impossible to complete SHOULD be rated, and the rating should be less than if they can always be completed.
[/ QUOTE ]
What is impossible for you may not be for someone else. However, the creator should have insterted something into the description which would have been able to give you a clue as to the difficulty (assuming they didn't).
I still feel that ratings should only be given upon completion. However, let me modify that by saving that the ability to make comments should remain the same.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem is the system doesnt allow you to dig through the thousands and thousands of arcs easily
This makes it so finding anything other than 5 stars is an excercise in futility.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pick one or several star ratings you want to examine, or unrated, plus your choice of alignment and length. Sort by whatever you like. Hit the page buttons to get out into the middle of things and start poking around physically randomly like running your hand along a bookcase.
It's not handed to you on a platter, it's not even ideal, but it's not really hard, either.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. But lets be honest here.
More than half of the good content is either 5 star or 4 star. but the way the mission computer works, 4 star arcs, which might have upwards of 60 ratings and be very good efforts, are buried deep on page 83+ Unless people are specifically looking to run 4 star arcs, they;'ll never see it.
Compound that with how the computer tends to space high rating arcs alongside arcs with very few ratings, thereby meaning all the 4 stars with say..30 ratings will show up in about 17 different pages. and all of those are far further down the full list than someones 1 5 star lolfram.
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
<QR>
First, sometimes it only takes two minutes for me to decide a mission or arc sucks. First impressions are extremely important. Therefore a quick one star rating does not always equal griefing. Second, if I play the mission/arc enough to decide it sucks and give it a one or two star rating, I don't owe you an explanation. If I'm willing to give an arc that kind of rating, that means I want to get away from it ASAP. I don't owe the author a damn thing.
OP: If you're suspicious because somebody gave a one star rating a didn't comment, maybe you need to get over yourself. Are you really that surprised that one person didn't like it?
[ QUOTE ]
I think that you should not be able to rate an arc 1 or 2 stars without leaving a comment. It is way too easy to kill somebody's hard work with an anonymous 1 or 2 star rating, especially if it is one of the first couple of ratings the story gets.
If you think the story is 1 or 2 stars, then fine, rate it that way, but the system should force you into at least leaving a comment, that way the author knows why the story is only a 1 or 2 star. I believe if you leave honest, helpful comments to a bad story, 99% of the player base will take it to heart and not do some petty retaliating.
I do like the 1-5 rating system, but I really hate the anonomous aspect of it when it comes to getting a 1 star rating. The author is left wondering why, and again, if it is one of the first few ratings a story gets, it may never be played again. If we help out the author's of some of the bad story's, we might all get better and better storys to play.
[/ QUOTE ] WRONG. Consumers, in this case the people playing the arcs, don't owe the content creators(people creating the arcs) ANYTHING. As a content creator it is your job to get me to use your content and enjoy it. If the consumer doesn't like it, then he/she doesn't have to explain him/herself.
[ QUOTE ]
I would go as far as say that one-star bandits are killing the MA. It is a huge way to discourage creative players to keep producing quality arcs. I hope something is going to be done...soon.
[/ QUOTE ] Or it is a huge way to encourage people to write better arcs. Criticism is funny like that.
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If you are willing to accept the praise that comes along with a 4-5 star rating, then conversely you need to be able to stomach a few 1-2 ratings that may not include any supporting comments.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am sorry but I don't understand what this has to do with this thread.
[/ QUOTE ] Really? People are crying about bad ratings. They need to get over themselves and realize that maybe their story isn't that great.
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If you are willing to accept the praise that comes along with a 4-5 star rating, then conversely you need to be able to stomach a few 1-2 ratings that may not include any supporting comments.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am sorry but I don't understand what this has to do with this thread.
[/ QUOTE ] Really? People are crying about bad ratings. They need to get over themselves and realize that maybe their story isn't that great.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm mostly crying about the fact even a few 3 stars can drag your arc to 4 star territory where its suddenly buried somewhere around the 90th's page of arcs. even if you have 64+ ratings
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
You seem to have confused legitimate criticism with IT SUCKS AND YOU SUCK FOR MAKING IT.
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I only ask because my first story arc (4336) received a 1 star rating (and no comment) after the first play, but is now up to 4 stars.
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And so many people said this was impossible ....
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Of course there are other reasons for giving it 1 star, maybe they just don't like Sky Raiders. But the lack of comment made me suspicious. I'm guessing that the whole rating system has been heavily discussed including the potential for forming griefing alliances etc. Yet another form of PvP added to the game.
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They might have not had much to say.
They might have feared retributory ratings.
They might have feared confrontation period.
I usually only leave feedback if I see something that has enough going for it already that it could be improved; if I was rating it a one it would be because I thought that the author had no interest in improving thier work. Or expressed that they were a jerkface in the content itself.
"I think you're confused. This is /b, not /b/."