WarTroller Single Target Damage Testing Videos
By
Austerity,
Posted on: 2009-02-24 08:15 in Controllers
I used to have a mob resistance spreadsheet that I dl'd from somewhere a long time ago, but never really gave it much attention. I do not have it anymore unfortunately, any idea if an up to date one is hosted anywhere?
thx
thank you, much appreciated.
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(I exclude GMs since it takes an INSANELY tweaked-out build to solo those these days).
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I solod most every GM in the game about a month ago with my Ill/Rad (including Lusca), and I'm not insane. 
My PA all say I'm completely normal. Though I must admit, my Phantasm is taking a "wait and see" approach. Of course I mentioned I could dismiss them all with a click of the mouse, but I don't think that affected their judgment in the least. 
As others have pointed out, this is a good baseline. But I personally prefer a more holostic approach. An Illusion Troller isn't going to use Spectral Wounds (SW), Blind, then twiddle his thumbs for several second waiting for them to recharge. Fighting a hard target reduces the value of the extra damage then heal of SW. PA has the same issue that other pets do in melee, in that it sometimes just draws a sword and uses only that till it disappears. The Defense debuffs in Earth won't make a difference if someone is slotted to hit 95% of the time, or uses some other Defense debuff. Nothing should beat a well slotted level 32+ Fire Controller, given it has attacks with the highest Damage Per Second of Animation (DPSA), Imps, and Hot Feet on the side. The attack chain is dependent on Hasten just as much as AM, Siphon Speed, and IO set bonuses. Mobs in an open area may get knocked around, reducing damage from pets and location based AoEs. There are just too many variables to deal with.
Obviously it's completely unreasonable to ask you to test every combination of primary and secondary, with different build options (Hasten or not, SOs up to purple IO sets) at different level ranges. But maybe it would be worthwhile to have some sort of friendly competition to get input from the player base. Set some basic rules (no external buffs or temp powers, pets pre-summoned, fight a +1 boss solo), require full disclosure (slotting, boss resistance), and see what sort of results you get. If enough people report results, we can get a better idea of how the different primaries compare in real game situations. (The Devs call this data mining.)
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
One would think that, with the exceptions of Gravity and possibly Mind control, each secondary should yield the same (relative) added result for each Primary it's paired with.
**I'd say that Gravity and Mind both use more powers as a part of their attack chain, Mind's might activate fast enough for it not to matter, but Gravity's certainly will make using the more active secondaries (kinetics for instance) problematic (Please for the love of <insert deity> can you speed up Propel???).
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Have done the Lusca-soloing bit myself, and if THAT doesn't prove we're crazy I don't know what will 
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That aside, I was more referring to the cost/time investment to get the build to the point where it can tank a target that difficult long enough to kill it. You probably knew that though... 
I haven't done much testing lately, but I did take my Ill/Rad up against some Cims on Invinc and timed the boss kill for the heck of it. Took me 35 seconds (roughly) to kill a +2 Cim boss including use of APP attacks. The build is not fully set yet, so the time is probably slower than it actually will be once I get the sets I still need plugged in, I estimate 27-30 seconds once I get a bit more damage squeezed in, perhaps 25 seconds if I don't miss.
Yeah, my Mind/Kin isn't going to be soloing any GMs. No pet to absorb alpha = me dead.
But a Boss? Pft, give me a minute alone with him and he'll be put down like Ol' Yeller.
Course, I'm pretty much purple'd out so challenge in this game has become pretty binary. Either i can defeat it easily or not at all.
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Would you post what the bands and songs are in each of the videos?
Thanks.
Crashy
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Would you post what the bands and songs are in each of the videos?
Thanks.
Crashy
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Sure.
WarTroller Single Target Damage Pre 32
Ally Walk With Me
The Ravenettes
WarTroller Single Target Damage 32
The Beat Dies
The Ravenettes
Damage Pre 32 Grav Earth Ice
Toxic
Britney Spears
Damage Pre 32 Grav Earth Ice Hasten
One More Time
Daft Punk
Damage Level 32 Grav, Earth, Ice
All Apologies
Nirvana
Damage 32 Grav Earth Ice Hasten
Goodie Two Shoes
Adam Ant
Damage Pre 32 Fire Ill Mind Plant
Breathe On Me
Britney Spears
Damage Pre 32 Fire Ill Mind Plant Hasten
A Day In The Life
Beatles
Damage 32 Fire Ill Mind Plant
Etude No. 7
Philip Glass
Damage 32 Fire Ill Mind Plant Hasten
1979
The Smashing Pumpkins
Controller Primaries Kill Times And DPS Vs Single Target Summary
Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)
The Beatles
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
Thanks!
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One would think that, with the exceptions of Gravity and possibly Mind control, each secondary should yield the same (relative) added result for each Primary it's paired with.
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That's not necessarily true. Considering the combined base cast times (without adjusting for server ticks) of each primary (other than Grav/Mind)'s two main attacks, we see:
Fire at 2.24
Illusion is 2.74
Ice is 3.04
Plant is 3.27
Earth is 4.0
In addition, Illusion's recharges are longer, at 6 and 9 seconds, rather than 4 and 8. So Fire and Illusion end up with a good deal more "empty space" in their attack chains, due to much faster cast times for Fire, and a combination of faster cast times and longer recharges, for Illusion. So these two sets would have more room to insert more attacks from Power or Ancillary Pools, or more powers from their secondaries that may add to damage in some way.
As a note, Earth's huge -Def debuffs make using Veteran attacks great... but with their longest cast times and 4/8 recharge times, they actually have the least time in which to fit the Veteran attacks.
Just finished prototype testing for including a single target confuse in the attack chain. The video can be found here: Single Target Confuse Damage Testing Prototype. This is a temporary video that will be removed once the final tests are done.
The results are summarized below:
NOTE THESE ARE PRELIMINARY RESULTS ONLY!!!
Fight____________________________Influence___Time_ ____Influence per second
1 minion 1 boss, no confuse__________17322_____60s______288.7
1 minion 1 boss, boss confuse________17322_____64s______270.65
1 minion 1 boss, minion confuse______16839______64s______263.10
1 minion 1 Lt, no confuse____________7424_______33s______224.96
1 minion 1 Lt, minion confuse_________7109_______33s______215.42
1 minion 1 Lt, Lt confuse_____________7424_______34s______218.35
3 minions, no confuse______________7425_______35s______212.14
3 minions, 2 confuse_______________6673_______35s______190.65
3 minions, 1 confuse_______________7236_______34s______212.82
The tests as done in the prototype do not properly split up Hasten and non-Hasten attack chains. Note that with only one exception the single target Confuse never decreased kill times and resulted in a loss of Inf/Time as high as 9%.
Any feedback on the testing methodology is welcome.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
My apologies for taking so long with these tests. I've been very busy in my personal life lately a will probably remain so for the foreseeable future. Still, I wanted to get these results posted.
The videos of all the tests and a summary of results can be found here.
What the Tests Cover
These tests are for the effects of using single target Confuse powers on small groups encountered solo. The tests cover Illusion and Mind in these situations.
The tests attempt to capture the following information in these situations:
*) The effect of using a single target Confuse on effective DPS.
*) The effect of using a single target Confuse on effective IPS (Influence Per Second).
*) For Illusion (only), the tests can be considered a reasonable measure of the effectiveness of the set in these situations, keeping in mind these tests do not include IOs, secondaries or power pools other than Hasten. The tests measure the base effectiveness of the primary.
What the Tests Do Not Cover
The tests _do not_ attempt to capture the following information:
*) The effectiveness of AoE Confuse powers.
*) The effectiveness of single target Confuse powers used as a control rather than as a way to supplement DPS and IPS.
*) The effectiveness of the primaries vs larger groups.
Results
The results of these tests are:
*) Single Target Confuse powers have minimal effect on DPS and IPS. For Mind control after level 32, the single target Confuse actually _worsened_ DPS and IPS slightly.
*) There is very little difference, on average, between confusing a minion or a Lt.
*) Confusing a boss tends to lead to slower kill times and less IPS than Confusing a minion when fighting a boss/minion pair.
*) Hasten is far more effective than a single target Confuse at increasing DPS and IPS.
Other Notes
*) The tests were done over 108 encounters vs 382 baddies over nearly an hour an a half of playtime. As such, they are probably the largest tests of single target Confuse powers ever conducted.
*) The tests include tests without Confuse powers for comparison.
*) Builds used for these tests were identical to builds used in previous single target tests.
*) There are tests vs 3 minions. These tests are run without Confuse powers, with a single minion Confused, and with two minions Confused.
*) There are tests vs 1 Lt and 1 minion. These tests are run without Confuse powers, with the Lt Confused, and with the minion Confused.
*) There are tests vs 1 boss and 1 minion. These tests are run without Confuse powers, with the boss Confused, and with the minion Confused.
*) The tests are run on Invincible.
*) Tests are run once without Hasten and again with Hasten.
*) Illusion tests are run once without PA and again with PA.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
Hmm... not quite thread necro, but close.
So, what was the purpose of the original test, just to determine ST DPS? Because that's easy enough to analyze on paper (Fire wins, by a lot). Your latest tests seem to focus on confuse damage, which is far harder to quantify, so kudos on those results. Then again, I never imagined a ST confuse would do much for your DPS (AoEs are a different story, obviously).
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
BTW thanks again for your contributions Magic even though some of us are going at it I appreciate you're dedication to this study! I think this thread also shines light on what a set can and cannot do and you hear people give there input from both sides of the spectrum.
One thing I learned was just roll a toon and lvl it. That will be the true determining factor...I swear if you really love your toon you can make it do some amazing things! Most cookie cutter builds don't hold one's interests as much as a fun toon would!