WarTroller Single Target Damage Testing Videos
By
Austerity,
Posted on: 2009-02-24 08:15 in Controllers
Smashing and lethal resistances, with an energy weakness and a Toxic resist after using Dull Pain.
Keep in mind, you don't need to use the same type of boss for each set. So long as they are at the same level and have no resistances to any of the sets damage types the test will still be valid. Also: If it heals, note how much or restart the test.
That said, I suggest a Council Penumbra Archon, Penumbra Cor Leonis Archon, or Pemumbra Elite Archon. No mez protections, no heals, no resistances, no (well very little) mez, and no relevant debuffs. A Council Empire Archon will work for the level 50 mob if you can't find a regular council spawn that high.
I'll look for a mish with thse council. In the meantime, would be be kind enough to post that actual resistance numbers for the Freakshow.
Edit:
Found an arc with a Penumbra Cor Leonis in the 1st mish. Will redo the testing using that.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
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<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>SM LE FIRE ICE NRG NE PSI TOX
0.75 0.75 1.00 0.70 1.30 1.00 1.00 1.00</pre><hr />
Technically, that is 1-Resistance. For example, a Tank will take on 75% of the damage from a smashing attack but 130% of the damage from an energy attack.
Thanks Weatherby.
I've put together the Pre-32 Damage Test for Grav, Earth, and Ice. This is not a draft, it's the final release unless mistakes are found.
Summary of results:
Grav w/Propel: 21s
Grav w/out Propel: 24s
Ice: 34s
Earth: 35s
Notes:
* Screen shots of all builds will be published in a separate video
* No powers outside the primary are used to improve damage, including Hasten.
* Level 32 tests for Grav, Earth, and Ice, as well as all tests for the other sets, are coming.
* Once all the new tests are up, the old Mind, Fire, Plant, and Illusion tests will be taken down.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
32 as in default 1 slot in the pet 32? or 32 as in post 32 fully slotted primary?
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32 as in default 1 slot in the pet 32? or 32 as in post 32 fully slotted primary?
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All the toons will be at least level 35, allowing the powers used in the level 32 test to be fully slotted.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
Ooo this is exciting! I was going to say something but i see you already did it. Gravity w/propel is muchh faster... you just have to know when to use it too many ppl tend to spam it. My grav/kin respec'd back into it after a year w/o and I just realized how much i missed it. I can understand why Ice and Earth don't kill fast b/c those sets have yummy secondaries to compensate with lack of dmg.
Now I must say I am shocked by the numbers i am seeing for Ill. I just play it for the fun factor but i never considered it to be such a heavy hitter. I guess with PA slotted and Phantasm it would make sense. Time for me to give my ill/kin more love. I still would imagine Fire putting out the best damage...I have seen those little boogers and they are insanely powerful if used in the right hands.
Ty again for this test Magicj this will help others with thier doms selections as well!
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32 as in default 1 slot in the pet 32? or 32 as in post 32 fully slotted primary?
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All the toons will be at least level 35, allowing the powers used in the level 32 test to be fully slotted.
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sounds good. Just to point out though you may want to avoid using the recharge intensive pet sets. As I said earlier afaik they aren't enhancing acc or dam, which was clear in your early vids with the imps doing far less damage than they normally do.
my fire troller matched the 34 seconds of the ill troller in your tests and considering one of my imps ran away for like 5 seconds and my ring of fire has no damage slotting I'm confident we'll see some different numbers this round.
*your ill pets' damage seemed correct from the vid. I'm guessing 90% ish dam slotting on PA and full dam slotting on phant?
If it isn't too much trouble do you want to run it with and without hasten? In particular I'm wondering if grav would be faster w/o propel w/ hasten running.
Anyway, good stuff I'm looking foward to the results.
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sounds good. Just to point out though you may want to avoid using the recharge intensive pet sets. As I said earlier afaik they aren't enhancing acc or dam, which was clear in your early vids with the imps doing far less damage than they normally do.
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With these new tests I'm using only SOs, so I can avoid that kind of mistake.
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If it isn't too much trouble do you want to run it with and without hasten? In particular I'm wondering if grav would be faster w/o propel w/ hasten running.
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Um, I'll do one for Grav pre 32 for you as a temp video, but we're getting a lot of tests here. Since Hasten affects only your attacks, not the pets' attacks, personal attacks w/Hasten vs personal attacks w/out Hasten is something people can figure out on their own.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
works for me. I'm fairly confident grav will do better w/o propel if it has a fluid attack chain. Certainly a build with damage procs would, but that isn't being considered at the time.
Reason I suggest it is because while propel is a fun power, the amount of corpse blasting it does is just staggering. Similar to "shout" from sonic I drop it as soon as I can seamlessly stream my "weaker" attacks and actually outperform the set had I included the "big hitter"
I just like to see it with evidence because to me nothing says a high damage - heaviest attack in a set is broken better than it being excluded in a min/max build.
But it isn't that difficult to avoid corpse-blasting with Propel. Sure, if you use it on a minion in an 8 person team, you're going to waste it; and if you use it on something you've already nailed with Crush and Lift, you're going to waste it.
Try using it as your first attack after containment. I find that with Fulcrum Shift on a contained minion, it often 1 shots them, depending on con and smashing resists; if not, it generally takes them down enough to hit them with Crush and switch targets. But YMMV.
I've put together the Level 32 Damage Test for Grav, Earth, and Ice . This is not a draft, it's the final release unless mistakes are found.
Summary of results:
Ice: 15s
Earth: 15s
Grav w/Propel: 17s
Grav w/out Propel: 22s
Notes:
* Screen shots of all builds will be published in a separate video
* No powers outside the primary are used to improve damage, including Hasten.
* Tests for the other sets are coming.
* Once all the new tests are up, the old Mind, Fire, Plant, and Illusion tests will be taken down.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
looks good. the only thing I don't like is that such a low hp target doesn't really give an opportunity for the pets to get into their grove.
what I mean is that take ice vs earth for instance. Both pets hit similarily hard (w/ jack doing a bit more damage), but jack has more attacks he can cycle. If the target dies so fast that the pets only run one chain it doesn't give an opportunity for the pets to really distinguish themselves.
Hopefully that makes sense, and I realize we face a lot more low hp targets than anything else it is just something I thought worth observing.
Nicely done and greatly appreciated. Like everyone else I want to shill for my current favorite... Earth. (I have ill/ff 50). I'm a veteran from the beginning so I have three vet attacks. The negative def of all the earth powers means I'm 95% to hit with them and everything else. Stone pet hits almost everytime as well. On a long kill -def is priceless. Thanks again and good work/fun!
After considering the recent comments by Frosticus, I decided to make the villains I was fighting tougher and to include full suite of tests with Hasten. These new videos are set to Invincible and include results with and without Hasten.
I was really surprised how big of a difference these two changes made in the results.
Here's the links to the new videos. The old Grav, Earth, and Ice videos have been taken down.
Damage Pre 32 Grav, Earth, Ice
Damage Pre 32 Grav, Earth, Ice With Hasten
Damage Level 32 Grav, Earth, Ice
Damage Level 32 Grav, Earth, Ice With Hasten
Grav, Earth, Ice Builds
Summary:
Pre-32, No Hasten
Grav w/Propel________1:06s
Earth_______________1:39s
Grav w/out Propel_____1:40s
Ice_________________1:49s
Pre-32 With Hasten
Grav w/Propel________58s
Grav w/out Propel_____1:04s
Ice_________________1:22
Earth_______________1:32s
Level 32 Without Hasten
Grav w/Propel________46s
Earth_______________49s
Grav w/out Propel_____55s
Ice_________________58s
Level 32 With Hasten
Earth_______________38s
Grav w/Propel________44s
Ice_________________47s
Grav w/out Propel____1:00s
I don't know why Grav did worse with Hasten than without for the level 32 test without Propel. I'm assuming Singy was out of range for part of the test.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
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I don't know why Grav did worse with Hasten than without for the level 32 test without Propel. I'm assuming Singy was out of range for part of the test.
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Probably because Propel sucks that hard. If you can't make a full attack chain (ie the w/o Hasten test) it can give Grav a slight edge, but once you can make a chain out of Crush, Lift, and GD, Propel actually lowers your DPS.
The times for the PRe-32, no Hasten runs should be:
Grav w/o Prop.....1:40
Grav w/ Prop.....1:06
Earth.....1:39
Ice.....1:49
Also: I'm not certain why you are using powers like VG and Flashfreeze in the tests. The minimal damage they put out will only hurt DPS. Also: the AoE Immobs will do a similar thing for the Hasten tests as Propel will.
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Probably because Propel sucks that hard. If you can't make a full attack chain (ie the w/o Hasten test) it can give Grav a slight edge, but once you can make a chain out of Crush, Lift, and GD, Propel actually lowers your DPS.
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Not sure about that. Grav w/Propel out-performed Grav w/out Propel in every test. But regardless, that doesn't really explain why the four single target attacks worked better _without_ Hasten for the level 32 tests. Propel was used in both tests. The only reason I can see is I was too far away for Singy to attack at the beginning of the Hasten test.
Thanks for catching the mistake in the summary. I edited the original post to reflect the correct numbers.
I tried to only use the AoEs as filler in the chains or to get the boss Contained earlier for better damage/more safety. Seems reasonable to me. For the same reason, I ran Arctic Air on one of the Ice tests in a futile attempt to keep Jack alive.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
earth ftw!!!
pooman didn't miss a single attack which is certainly a + for the set in long term performance.
Something is wrong with Jack ( I don't have a high lvl ice troller to test myself) he isn't cycling his ranged attacks in melee (pooman does) and once his ice sword is out he never puts it away, so no freezing touch (just like pooman used to do once he pulled out the mallet) so he only uses freezing touch once and each ranged attack once and then the sword comes out and he never uses anything else again.
I thought all that was supposed to be fixed for him? He is doing a fraction of the damage he should do if he cycles his attacks. Assuming he is hitting with his attacks (w/ two acc SO's he will) ice should be beating earth in the post 32 tests, but Jack isn't functioning correctly.
Wonder if anyone has bugged Jack's behavior recently because he is doing exactly what pooman used to do that got him overhauled.
Great tests though and great work.
Don't know what to say about Jack other than a pet that wimpy shouldn't be getting into melee. Seems broken to me. Either make him tougher with some natural +Defense, or put him back at range and buff his range attacks.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Imps are also pretty darned whimpy and they are required to go into melee.
IMO if you want your pet to be tougher, add the pet resistance/defense io's. there's 4 available now, so there should be no issue getting some healthy protection in there for em.
Your video has a very good image quality, and also some relaxing music, which makes it really enjoyable to watch. I wish we could see more CoX quality vids like this one on Youtube : it would prolly attract more ppl to the game 
magic to be honest you coudl do some REALLY good tests once i14 comes out. You'll have more freedom to cherry pick your enemies and expose each set to the same situation.
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Something is wrong with Jack ( I don't have a high lvl ice troller to test myself) he isn't cycling his ranged attacks in melee (pooman does) and once his ice sword is out he never puts it away, so no freezing touch (just like pooman used to do once he pulled out the mallet) so he only uses freezing touch once and each ranged attack once and then the sword comes out and he never uses anything else again.
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Sounds like something right with Jack to me. By not wanting to cycle his ranged attack and keeping his sword out, he's not tempted to stay at range where he only does a fraction of as much damage. This was probably done deliberately by the developers to encourage melee behavior in Jack.
The lack of freezing touch is a little bit of a bummer, but hey, how often does a full-fledge controller really the pet throwing an occasional hold? I can tie up several spawns all by my lonesome.
That said, it is a little odd Earth is outperforming Ice in the tests. It must be Volcanic Gasses or Stalagmite being used or something. Jack's love of melee should be providing an edge.
[Ah, I see why. At one point during the test, the Boss kicked Jack away (about 3:10 - 3:15).]
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Jack's love of melee should be providing an edge.
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Not really. Jack's love of melee gets him killed. He's just not built to handle melee. Ice performed so badly the first time I tested it with Jack, with Jack getting killed almost instantly, that I actually gave the set a Mulligan.
And unlike Fire, Ice has only one pet. Once Jack is dead, you're left trying to kill things with the other Ice powers, which is kind of like trying to kill someone with a fly swatter.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage
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Poor ice
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Not sure that's a fair test for ice considering freak tanks have 30% cold resistance. Cold being rarely resisted is one of ice's few advantages, so kind of a reverse cherry picking there.
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That's good to know and I'll make a note of that in the final video, along with an estimated time with the Resistance subtracted out.
Do Freaks have any other Defense or Resistance I should know about? I can't pull up the Resistance chart on the computer I'm on right now.
That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio
The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage