MMs in PvP? Why don;t they work?
By
apple_eater,
Posted on: 2008-12-31 08:28 in Everything about PvP
First, I'll start off with the basic disclaimer that this is my personal experience. And second, any build can be defeated at any given time if faced by a more experienced and/or build which knows how to defeat the first build.
All that said, MMs are PvP neutral, they aren't PvP Gods because they have very specific flaws that make them defeatable. But they aren't PvP losers either because if well played they can take down multiple opponents without much sweat.
I have a 50 Bots/Traps which is tough as nails solo attacked and even when surrounded by 2-3 heroes who don't know how to handle a MM. He's a defensive build relying on bodyguard mode to stay alive and the debuffs of traps to debilitate the opposition. I've zone and arena'd him and done well, so they definitely work for PvP.
As a MM I know my weaknesses and do all I can to protect myself from them. If you plan on PvPing a MM here is the list of things to know.
1. BG mode is only as good as your distance to your pet minions, so if you get tp'd a distance from them you better be ready to either run, stun, or fight until your pets can reach you. And know when you can slip out of BG to finish off the last opponent before reinforcements can return.
2. Damage is damage, even in BG mode you'll take damage so avoid the AoE effects on you and your minions.
3. Know when and how to retreat, like other builds, sometimes the best move is to move. Know how to protect yourself in moving and use terrain.
4. Don't expect to survive all the time, it's PvP, just enjoy watching your opponents having to deal with your minions.
5. One final thing, respawn your minions, alot of MMs forget to replace their pets to keep up their strength, just be prepared to deal with the endurance drain respawning puts on you.
MMs are fun in all modes of PvP, just know how to play them.
"It is that balance, the ground between EB and AV, where the PvP struggle should exist. Where a 1v1 becomes a struggle of equals, and 1vMany gives the benefit to the 1."
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Infinity: Meteor Storm, Mutai Kid, General Bot, Da Smasher
Were they in body guard mode? were they poisen or storm?
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I concentrate on the MM and ignore the minions.
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When I defeated masterminds, I did the exact opposite. I took out all the minions first and then went after the mastermind.
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I concentrate on the MM and ignore the minions.
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When I defeated masterminds, I did the exact opposite. I took out all the minions first and then went after the mastermind.
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That's why I have challenge on my mastermind. If people get any funny ideas about killing my minions, I start spamming it.
Actually, at the moment MM's DONT work in pvp due to the psi bug. Psi based attacks are bypassing BG mode and doing direct damage to the mm. Dont bother even breaking out the mm until they fix this.
That's why i consentrate on the MM. Kill the king, the game is done. Minions usually do less dmg than a player. the MM can respawn the minions pretty fast so killing them does very little.
I kill them all. Build up, throw spines, spine burst, ripper, throw spines.
/goes back to leveling his poison MMs
MMs are pretty nasty if you got the expierence and the right build. Although i never lost to a mm on test on my storm, they gave me a hell of a run for my money, that was pre i13, so who knows with this fin issue, but im sure there still viable just like everythin else, might just be a diff play style is all.
I find it the other way around, MM's got boosted because they didn't got nerfed by DR.
The defense, regen, recharge, resist based builds got the shaft. My tank went from 107 HP per second (a lot more against all MM pet, that number is for one mob only) to 63 HP, less when RTTC goes down at the first mez. A tank friend mentioned his 90% res to S/L went down to 50%.
Where did MM's got hit by DR?
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Actually, at the moment MM's DONT work in pvp due to the psi bug. Psi based attacks are bypassing BG mode and doing direct damage to the mm. Dont bother even breaking out the mm until they fix this.
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Hmm, psi damage unresisted maybe? Certainly would explain why psi does more damage to me than any other blaster.
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Actually, at the moment MM's DONT work in pvp due to the psi bug. Psi based attacks are bypassing BG mode and doing direct damage to the mm. Dont bother even breaking out the mm until they fix this.
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Hmm, psi damage unresisted maybe? Certainly would explain why psi does more damage to me than any other blaster.
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Oh wow, really? So all of Fort's attacks basically do full dmg? :S
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Actually, at the moment MM's DONT work in pvp due to the psi bug. Psi based attacks are bypassing BG mode and doing direct damage to the mm. Dont bother even breaking out the mm until they fix this.
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Hmm, psi damage unresisted maybe? Certainly would explain why psi does more damage to me than any other blaster.
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I've been noticing this too....ALOT.
In fact, I might go as far as to say that Psi is bypassing defenses all together as well. The dev's really left a "huge" problem hole here that needs fixed immediately imho.
Also, Psi Blasters are the only AT I've noticed this hole with. Forts and even Defenders do not appear to have this same hole. It just appears as though Blasters are dealing full unresisted damage with thier attacks as well as bypassing defenses altogether. I tested this with my ELA Brute. I have well over 55% +res to psi damage on him in pvp with just toggles, with Power Surge activated I hover around +80% to all damage types, including psi. Yet Psi Blasters slice through him as though I had no toggles up and was debuffed into the negatives on resistances 
For comparison, one time I had an SS Tanker fighting me while I was in Power Surge. His attacks were cute little tickles of damage while in my tier9. About 15 seconds after I started the fight a lone Psi Blaster jumped in and pretty much 3-4 shotted me...from range... 
Further testing with my EA Brute, while running Overload (yes, EA has Psi defense [u]in pvp[u]), confirmed that Psi Blasters were ignoring defense as well. My Night Widow, who runs at a perma 45% defense and up, has fallen victim to this also. I'll have to do more testing on defensive builds to say for certain that they are ignoring defenses as well, but at this time I say they are.
It just appears as though the dev's have accidentally somehow coded Psi Blasters to not only ignore resistances, but defenses as well. Again, this is not something I've observed with other AT's. It needs fixed though, and soon.
Pre I13 i would beat pretty much ever MM in pvp that i fought with my mind perma dom. Even in bodyguard mode. they'd keep the pets close, i'd sleep the pets, or mezz or whatever, and kill the mm. after I13 it's a different story.
I agree with the other posts for the most part, you just haven't been fighting good mm's.
Z
It's called Bodyguard mode. Suggest it to them next time.
Plus were you fighting an MM that did not take their secondary powers?
MMs are still fairly tanky but with the removal of -max run and addition of squishy resistances, no one should die to an MM ever. Except for maybe a poison MM.
MMs do fine in PvP. My Thugs/TA, back when I played, did quite well in cutting through people solo(With the exception of the sturdier ATs, they took longer), as well as holding my own against full teams granted I was on my toes.
It all depends on how the MM is built, who's controlling the MM, and what the MM is up against.