Vigilantes as a third Designation
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2008-12-16 09:22 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Vigilante. A Neutral designation between hero and villain. Given the choice of 3 hero or 3 villain archetypes and able to choose between the Rogue Isles or Paragon City as a starting location.
Character is -NOT- licensed in Paragon and only has a Dossier in the Isles.
Classes available would be Blaster, Brute, Stalker, Defender, Dominator, and Scrapper.
Character would go through Outbreak or Breakout as Normal. But would be shunted off to a third contact. Someone other than Liberty, Brawler, Kalinda, or Burke. This contact would be a bit removed from the main starting area. Perhaps on the Beach behind the Fort on Mercy and in the Park south of City Hall in Atlas. For Galaxy I'd suggest behind the Galaxy Girl Statue.
This character may NEVER enter hazard zones without a teammate. They would, instead, be allowed to travel between the Isles and Paragon at will, and be allowed to do about 90% of the game's content.
For example: They cannot enter the Hollows without the supervision of a Hero of level 5 or greater. Boomtown would be Similar. Terra Volta as well. This would be to simulate 'sneaking in' while the guards at the entrance are distracted. Getting -out-, however, is not an issue and can be done solo.
Vigilantes would not be able to do a Hero or Villain specific Task Force or Strike Force without the 'Supervision' of a Hero or Villain character. For Cimerora and the RWZ they would need no supervision, however.
This gives the player an amazing level of moral flexibility and freedom in mission content choices. It does, however, hold true (or at least more true than other suggestions) to the game's core story elements.
There would be no World PvP involved with Vigilantes. Though their methods of traveling between the Isles and Paragon would be another Unique element.
To traverse from Paragon to the Isles a Vigilante must enter a PvP or Cooperative zone and activate the 'Turncoat' power. Which allows them to swap their designation from Hero to Villain and vice versa. This is also possible to do inside the Pocket D. The power itself is on a 10 second recharge, but during and after combat of any kind it is suppressed for 15 minutes.
Through these 'Bridge' zones the Vigilante has amazing travel ability, able to traverse massive distances and borders on a whim. The Ability to turn on friends and side with Foes through the Turncoat power.
Opinions?
-Rachel-
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I like. Much better now that you've taken out the other poster's pvp in pve zones aspect.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
While I like the system as a whole, I do have a few, minor problems with it that I'm sure could be worked around:
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This character may NEVER enter hazard zones without a teammate.
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Once passed the level of the hazard zone, many hero missions can be placed in these zones. If you were to get a hero-side mission as a vigilante in the hollows, for example, you couldn't do it without finding a teammate. Vigilantes, by what I usually think of them as, would track towards the soloist route. Getting a mission that you can't do solo might be a bad thing.
Moving missions out of hazard zones might be a workaround to this, but would mean that those zones have less life.
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Vigilantes would not be able to do a Hero or Villain specific Task Force or Strike Force without the 'Supervision' of a Hero or Villain character.
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Just out of curiosity, could a team of four vigilantes, plus four heroes, start a Posi TF, then have the four heroes quit? Or would this disband the TF?
Love the "Turncoat" power suppression after combat, too. Good work on that, as it would make it difficult to gank somebody, and then become their friend right away so that they can't attack you back.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I don't object to more story options and I did not have a "Nooooo!!!" reaction to this.
A couple of questions:
1) What was your reasoning behind limiting the Vigilante to the ATs you did? Something more elaborate than 'balance,' please, since I'm genuinely interested.
2) Isn't the need for a supervisor for a SF/TF redundant since everyone else on the team is already the appropriate designation, or is this just to prevent all-vigilante teams or to prevent them from starting them? I can see preventing them from starting the SF/TFs for story reasons, but I'd like to hear more on your reasoning (again, genuine interest).
3) Quite a bit of the content for villains, especially at the lower and upper levels, centers around being a "Destined One." I see you've addressed the issue at the lower levels, but how does this work with the upper levels and other parts of the overarching story?
4) The inability to enter hazard zones by oneself makes sense thematically, but what happens when a contact in a non-hazard zone sends the character into a zone for a mission? Do they then have to find a team to complete the mission? Seems inconvenient, was that deliberate, a balance as it were? (So bummed I wouldn't be able to go solo the Hollows at level 5, too...)
The Archetype Choices
Picking six ATs was the hardest part of the whole thing. But then I stopped and asked myself: Which Heroic Archetypes have the best power-selection and styling to head Villainside? Which Villains would do the same?
For Scrappers I thought of Wolverine and Wildcat. Two bare-knuckle brawlers who love a good fight and don't care where it is. Wildcat has done some underground arena fighting and Wolverine has been questionable. So going to the Rogue Isles to work as a Vigilante (outside the law, but trying to help) seemed reasonable for them.
For Stalkers it was more a choice of form over function. Various Ninja and Stealthy villains have walked the path of 'Good' before. Helping out those who needed it so long as it does not conflict with their primary interests.
Brutes. The Hulk. He's destructive, wild, chaotic, and dangerous, but he means well. Another example would be Da Funk, an Explosive personality strongman convict who is willing to be a good guy to woo Power Girl. She never gave him the chance 'cause he tried to kiss her, but... You get the idea.
When I thought of a Control based class I thought of Psylocke. She's heavy on the melee psi and has some ability to 'hold' people in certain storylines, but she just flip-flops from good to evil SO often it's not funny!
As for Blasters it was a quick decision on the need for a 'Ranged Damage' AT, which Blaster alone fits the true nature of. Various villainous and heroic ranged attackers have wandered the Vigilante's path for decades. Some have been solid villains. Just thought I'd open that one up.
For Defenders I wanted to have a Buff/Debuff class that walks the line. I was -thinking- about Corruptors, but it seemed a bit far. While a Defender can do Dark and Radiation powersets, which is borderline 'Evil'. So a Heroic Archetype that could be construed as 'Evil' on occasion. Soul-sucking darkness and Radiation Poisoning seemed big hits with me. How often has Raven of the Teen Titans or Cloak of Cloak and Dagger been on the borderline?
I chose to do Three and Three to keep things fair between the sides while also covering each of the five primary roles.
Hazard Zones
I'd actually forgotten about the high level contacts sending Vigilantes to the zones. I suppose that would be a different story... I'd still suggest that Vigilantes get their 'Hazard Zone' missions outside of the zones. Perhaps by traveling through the Sewer system to get to their destination? Alternatively making a few more rooms in the Sewer Network with exits into the Hazard Zones would be fantastic.
It would make it a BIT more difficult for the Vigilantes, but with the ease of their travel otherwise, I think it balances out.
Task Forces
It would be to keep 4 Vigilantes from starting a TF. Yes. However if a Hero were to come along and drop after the contact GAVE the mission the Task Force would continue: You've earned the contact's trust by performing the first task admirably.
As for my reasons: Story. Sadly that's all I have is the immersive element of being distrusted by Positron, Synapse, and the others.
Destined Ones
If you've played the Higher Level villain content you know that anyone can be a Destined One. Even someone from Paragon. I'd still limit the archetypes to their normal APP/PPP choices (no blasters with Ghost Widow powers), however. So a Dominator from Paragon who becomes a Destined One... Yeah. there ya go.
Opinions?
-Rachel-
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Destined Ones
If you've played the Higher Level villain content you know that anyone can be a Destined One. Even someone from Paragon. I'd still limit the archetypes to their normal APP/PPP choices (no blasters with Ghost Widow powers), however. So a Dominator from Paragon who becomes a Destined One... Yeah. there ya go.
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I have and I do. As long as there's a story reason for it, maybe another unique arc, explaining why you're on the list.
That reminds me... would this option be open to everyone from day one? I know I played a hero first, then a villain, and how so much of it tied together really made me go, "Ohhhhh! That makes SENSE!" I almost think it should be unlocked somehow, and not by having level 50s.
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Destined Ones
If you've played the Higher Level villain content you know that anyone can be a Destined One. Even someone from Paragon. I'd still limit the archetypes to their normal APP/PPP choices (no blasters with Ghost Widow powers), however. So a Dominator from Paragon who becomes a Destined One... Yeah. there ya go.
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I have and I do. As long as there's a story reason for it, maybe another unique arc, explaining why you're on the list.
That reminds me... would this option be open to everyone from day one? I know I played a hero first, then a villain, and how so much of it tied together really made me go, "Ohhhhh! That makes SENSE!" I almost think it should be unlocked somehow, and not by having level 50s.
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Epic tf/sf that can be started at any level perhaps?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Epic TF/SF or trial would be fine by me. I don't know about the any level part. I'd make it 25 or higher, since that's about the level when I really start to get a feel for the charecter, how it plays, what its limitations are, ans so on. Also, it just 'feels' right (very subjective, I know).
Hmmm... Split the Difference? Have to have a level 25 villain and a Level 25 hero in order to gain access? Or perhaps just make it a paid expansion?
As for the reason you're on the list... hmm... Could just have it be a shock to the character. Have an Arbiter point you over to the contact who lets you pick your patron and then he pretends it's -always- been so. Through that method the only way to AVOID being a Destined One is to head to Paragon. Could be an interesting Impetus for a Dominator, Brute, or Stalker to flee the Isles?
Though I wouldn't be -averse- to another Villain storyline... It'd have to be MUCH better than the VEAT ones... Those were lame.
ESPECIALLY the Final Mission!!! I REALIZE that Pandora's box is an in-game reason for superpowers. But Doctor Brainstorm and Powerset Proliferation should NEVER have been put into the game's storyline... *sigh*
-Rachel-
/signed.
Great idea and sound mucho fun.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Hmmm... Split the Difference? Have to have a level 25 villain and a Level 25 hero in order to gain access? Or perhaps just make it a paid expansion?
As for the reason you're on the list... hmm... Could just have it be a shock to the character. Have an Arbiter point you over to the contact who lets you pick your patron and then he pretends it's -always- been so. Through that method the only way to AVOID being a Destined One is to head to Paragon. Could be an interesting Impetus for a Dominator, Brute, or Stalker to flee the Isles?
Though I wouldn't be -averse- to another Villain storyline... It'd have to be MUCH better than the VEAT ones... Those were lame.
ESPECIALLY the Final Mission!!! I REALIZE that Pandora's box is an in-game reason for superpowers. But Doctor Brainstorm and Powerset Proliferation should NEVER have been put into the game's storyline... *sigh*
-Rachel-
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Not sure I want a paid expansion. I'd like to up the odds the player has the basics of the games down. And I wouldn't make a level requirement, just because in my experience, it is very easy to get powerleveled very quickly, especially now with I13 and leveling pacts and permabridges.
I like the epic trial idea the very best. And I like your ideas about why you're a Destined Ones. (I, um, did like the VEAT stuff, though)
The longer this thread gets, the more I like the whole notion.
Ahhh... It's okay. SOMEBODY had to like the VEAT Stuff. *ducks!*
Seriously, though. I liked most of it. I hated that it was so brief. 2-3 missions every 10 levels hardly seems to matter, really. My only real complaints lie in their brevity and in the final one. God that was annoying.
Alright. So a Trial that goes for both sides...I'd suggest putting it into Siren's Call. You need to be level 20 to get in, which is a solid gate for 'competent' players, I think. The Trial itself should have only one mission located inside Siren's.
The Trial is one mission with a timer: Co Op. Speaking with the Trial Contact tells you that you must not be a Hero or Villain to pursue this path. You'll have to set your allegiances aside to accomplish your goals. Accepting this alters your flag to 'Vigilante'.
The Single Mish itself would be dangerous, difficult, and arduous. Likely involving recovering Sunburst's energy to keep either Paragon's Heroes or the Isle's Villains from gathering and using the residual energy. I'd suggest having to fight against Back Alley Brawler AND Black Scorpion to complete this trial, as you learn that each of them has collected some of Sunburst's residual energy.
BaBs reason is an attempt to put him back together. Which will make him immediately go Nova again, destroying much of Paragon. While Scorpion's intent is to take the power for himself and harness it to make his own power far greater than any hero or villain, allowing him to take over much of the world.
You have one hour to defeat both NPCs and collect the residual energy from Sunburst's explosion. However the two are on a Bee-line course towards each other and WILL try to beat the other. Should BaBs get the final hit on Scorp or vice-versa the mission ends in failure.
Opinions?
-Rachel-
I'd say it's a pretty decent idea over all.
I'd remove the "must have a companion to enter certain zones" part though .. In Hero Zones, they are a Hero, though maybe not Popular. Maybe - no special reward from contacts at the end of story arcs, and no bonus influence from Random Citizens you save? Less Influence earned?
In Villain zones, they would be allowed, but perhaps not trusted. Less Influence earned?
In PvP zones .. Hmm .. you would need to 'pick a side' when you entered ... I like your 'Turncoat' suggestion. It could lead to some interesting PvP angles, for those that enjoy it.
I'd also not limit the AT's as much. I just don't see the reasoning behind it.
How WOULD you handle Influence/Infamy? Would they need to have seperate totals for each?
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
I dunno, Tiny... The Hazard Zones are guarded by Officers and gated for levels specifically. The in Character reason lies in the 'Security Level Restrictions' of the zone. A Vigilante HAS no Hero License. He or she is outside the system and thus cannot benefit from -all- the perks thereof. In exchange they get other perks, like being able to travel between Paragon and the Isles.
As for Influence and Infamy... Hmm... I suppose they'd have a running total of both? For all the good they do in Paragon they gain influence. For all the evil in the Isles they gain infamy, and vice versa (evil in PC = Infamy, too!) But since you're talking about shopkeepers... Well... I think Infamy covers buying from a shop just as well as Influence does. The store owner buckles before the might of your evilness etc.. etc.
And there's also the Sewers idea for getting into Hazard Zones, too!
-Rachel-
Yeah - I would say give them some way to get there .. whether it's a Sneak in deal, or something else. People hate to be "Forced" to Team.
You could say that they do have a license - perhaps you just say that they have a Forged ID that they use. After all, there is no way those guards can keep track of Every Hero that passed the gates. I'm pretty sure that if they just see powers they wave you through. They are just there to keep the Norms and the sightseers out - and to sound the alarm if the Bad Guys start heading our way.
They are Vigilantes, outside the system - but they know how to use both sides to their advantage - but tend to not always follow the rules, so are less 'popular'.
The problem would be people using those characters as Wentworth/Black Market Mules, feeding either side with commodoties that are rare in one place, common in another. You'd have to find some way around that, as it goes against the Devs wishes for a seperate market place. Unless they merge the markets, which I wouldn't mind at all.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
Ooo! Markets! I've got the SIMPLEST answer to that! =-3
They have no choice but to use the Black Market.
It's the fastest and simplest way to handle it. BUT! I would put a BM and a WW in the D. It also might be a good idea to put a Black Market in King's Row, perhaps?
As for the forged ID... That would make an -AWESOME- low-level or mid-level storyarc! I really do like that idea.
-Rachel-
I think it would be best to come up with some 'easy' form of unrestricted access to Hazard zones like an crack in the war walls that isn't mapped but anyone can go through. It's a good idea to limit it in theory, but it skews things heavily against hero-side since villains have a mere 2 hazard zones to the heroes' more than 8
-edit- Maybe make a low-level mish to get a fake ID, as sort of a Vigilante 101 arc. Get a fake ID, take something froma hazard zone in paragon to a place villainside or something like that.
Liking the "Just use the BM" solution to the markets, but what about trades?
The trial suggestion is interesting, but I'm actually not sure if it could be done. Well, I'm not sure *I* could do it. I'm going to let it perculate in my brain a while longer and hope someone else makes good comments on that aspect while my brain is brewing.
Mmmmaybe... But I'm not sure?
Heroes have level-gated access to 8 hazard zones and unrestricted access to 12 city zones.
Villains have level gated access to 2 zones and unrestricted access to only 7 city zones.
Both sides have gated access to 3 Co-Op zones and unrestricted access to 1.
And Both Sides also have level gated access to 4 PvP zones.
The Vigilante, as I've outlined it, would have unrestricted access to a whopping 20 zones and level gated access to 3 Co-Op zones and 4 PvP zones. Meanwhile they have an additional gating requirement on 10 other zones.
There is also the 3 Shadow Shard zones that I haven't discussed as Gated or otherwise.
But this still makes the Vigilante able to enter 20 city zones freely, The PvP zones, and 3 Co-Op zones without an issue. It just puts an extra gate on The Abyss, Eden, Perez, Boomtown, Striga, and others.
The questions that stand before us are:
How gamebreaking are those 10 zones to a soloist Vigilante?
And would making a Sewer Run (or alternate ferry route) to get there kill the game for them?
Personally I don't think so.
-Rachel-
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And would making a Sewer Run (or alternate ferry route) to get there kill the game for them?
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Being a vigilante, it really stinks!
*bump bump CHING*
I like it - especially the concept of a mish to get forged documents. Their training mish or something like that.
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I like it - especially the concept of a mish to get forged documents. Their training mish or something like that.
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Hm...
Outbreak.
Breakout
Break In
XD It's some sort of Mercenary building, the easiest place to acquire basic registration for access to both Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. They issue you both papers, just enough to get you basic Hero and Destined access into the locations.
Would also explain why you're on the Destined list and why you're not being pursued by Longbow for Hero-ing without a license.
Also, instead of Influence or Infamy, just to have one simple currency, call the Vigilante's 'Reputation' in general.
Break In... Hmm...!
I've got it! =-3
Break In: Starting Mission arc for Vigilante characters
After Break Out or Outbreak you are sent to a specific contact in Galaxy City or Mercy Island. On speaking to that contact he or she will inform your character about a nearby file-server containing information on Metahumans and Superbeings all over the globe.
For Paragonians this would involve an instanced version of Atlas Park, at night. You have to get past the guards (low level PPD on par with Hellions, no Lieutenants or Bosses) and then sneak into the Registrar's files to add in a falsified folder, that you make up on the fly (Giving yourself a hero identity in the form of a bio, 'origin' and so forth) MAYBE set it up to show an alternate name, probably not!
For Villains it would involve slipping into the Fortress on Northern Mercy Island and planting a similar folder in a filing cabinet in an Arachnos Base.
Either way you designate yourself as a 'Hero with Destined One Potential'.
Opinions?
-Rachel-
Actualy, if you think about it, holes in the warwalls would be fairly logical.. ok.. to me atleast.
Consider how many villians tend to get around so easly in PAragon City. There has to be ways they are doing it.
An ID 'Mask' might bet what is needed so they can get around some things to avoid detection of sort.
Vigilantes sound like they would get on the bad side of someone or already be on the bad side of someone so wouldn't that mean that random times someone or some group specialized in hunting down these rogues in an effort to send them back where they came from ... arrest or capture them.
What about Vigilanty Contacts that help keep you under the radar as long as you preform certian task for them. Not really a requirement but would add a story element I would think.
"I know you were trying to avoid it but you built up quite the reputation in 'Orgin here'. Certian people won't like that you suddenly decided to show your face around here. Maybe, I could keep them off your trail for a while. You know, a few false leads, an eye withness report from the blind man on the corner. I just need you to handle a problem for me. Nothing bad I assure you."
A while ago, I was considering the idea of the low level PPD attacking you on sight- Vigilantism and all. By level 20 (The popular choice of when to be able to start the arc), you'd probably be prepared to fight them.
Not Longbow, though, and no PPD past King's Row. After a certain point, you could just say they 'give up,' because Longbow has a HUGE presence in Faultline, and... Yeah.
For the starting mission idea- I'unno, you could say that the card you made at Character Creation is some sort of coded key card that when swiped into either the Paragon City Hall or Fort Darwin mainframe registers you for that, which would enable you to pick all those things at first as usual.
Vigilante. A Neutral designation between hero and villain. Given the choice of 3 hero or 3 villain archetypes and able to choose between the Rogue Isles or Paragon City as a starting location.
Character is -NOT- licensed in Paragon and only has a Dossier in the Isles.
Classes available would be Blaster, Brute, Stalker, Defender, Dominator, and Scrapper.
Character would go through Outbreak or Breakout as Normal. But would be shunted off to a third contact. Someone other than Liberty, Brawler, Kalinda, or Burke. This contact would be a bit removed from the main starting area. Perhaps on the Beach behind the Fort on Mercy and in the Park south of City Hall in Atlas. For Galaxy I'd suggest behind the Galaxy Girl Statue.
This character may NEVER enter hazard zones without a teammate. They would, instead, be allowed to travel between the Isles and Paragon at will, and be allowed to do about 90% of the game's content.
For example: They cannot enter the Hollows without the supervision of a Hero of level 5 or greater. Boomtown would be Similar. Terra Volta as well. This would be to simulate 'sneaking in' while the guards at the entrance are distracted. Getting -out-, however, is not an issue and can be done solo.
Vigilantes would not be able to do a Hero or Villain specific Task Force or Strike Force without the 'Supervision' of a Hero or Villain character. For Cimerora and the RWZ they would need no supervision, however.
This gives the player an amazing level of moral flexibility and freedom in mission content choices. It does, however, hold true (or at least more true than other suggestions) to the game's core story elements.
There would be no World PvP involved with Vigilantes. Though their methods of traveling between the Isles and Paragon would be another Unique element.
To traverse from Paragon to the Isles a Vigilante must enter a PvP or Cooperative zone and activate the 'Turncoat' power. Which allows them to swap their designation from Hero to Villain and vice versa. This is also possible to do inside the Pocket D. The power itself is on a 10 second recharge, but during and after combat of any kind it is suppressed for 15 minutes.
Through these 'Bridge' zones the Vigilante has amazing travel ability, able to traverse massive distances and borders on a whim. The Ability to turn on friends and side with Foes through the Turncoat power.
Opinions?
-Rachel-