Live Feedback: Issue 13 : Merit Reward System

Redside market is horribly borked. Just an FYI.

---

It was before I13 as well, merits have only exacerbated the existing supply issues.

---

everything that we can get in the game including hami's needs to be available thru the merit system. the items that are 50+ merits needs to be brought down to like 5 or 10.

If everything was made available more people would be able to trick out their characters in a resonable ammount of time and be more encouraged to make new characters -

It would also reduce the cost of all the rare items on the market because these things would be more available IMHO.

I would like to see lvl 50's have the ability to get purped out..,. SOLO...

Having the rare stuff cost entirely too many merits and having the hard to find stuff cost entirely too many merits doesnt make it worth anyones time to hound for merits.

Dont like farming Posi? Make it so we dont HAVE to. I would like to be able to run a few story arcs and have everything I need to purp out my 50.

I would also like to be able to shut off my inf, not just my xp, and earn triple prestige. I would also like the exchange rate for buying prestige to be uh...more economically viable.

i13 has brought a slew of trust issues especially for larger sg'sthat have more to protect. People are turning to solo sg's or small groups of tightly knit friends and are getting nowhere fast, even with the pricing and refunds i13 brought.

I hope this doesnt turn into a wall of txt and im not looking to get flamed. I would like to see these changes because i honestly think that they would fix alot of the problems with the availability of things on the market. a purple recipe shouldnt cost 100,000,000 inf. it should cost 10 merits max. and story arcs need to pay at least 50 merits. that would fix everything.

---

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

[ QUOTE ]
everything that we can get in the game including hami's needs to be available thru the merit system. the items that are 50+ merits needs to be brought down to like 5 or 10.

If everything was made available more people would be able to trick out their characters in a resonable ammount of time and be more encouraged to make new characters -

It would also reduce the cost of all the rare items on the market because these things would be more available IMHO.

I would like to see lvl 50's have the ability to get purped out..,. SOLO...

Having the rare stuff cost entirely too many merits and having the hard to find stuff cost entirely too many merits doesnt make it worth anyones time to hound for merits.

Dont like farming Posi? Make it so we dont HAVE to. I would like to be able to run a few story arcs and have everything I need to purp out my 50.

I would also like to be able to shut off my inf, not just my xp, and earn triple prestige. I would also like the exchange rate for buying prestige to be uh...more economically viable.

i13 has brought a slew of trust issues especially for larger sg'sthat have more to protect. People are turning to solo sg's or small groups of tightly knit friends and are getting nowhere fast, even with the pricing and refunds i13 brought.

I hope this doesnt turn into a wall of txt and im not looking to get flamed. I would like to see these changes because i honestly think that they would fix alot of the problems with the availability of things on the market. a purple recipe shouldnt cost 100,000,000 inf. it should cost 10 merits max. and story arcs need to pay at least 50 merits. that would fix everything.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a joke post, right? Please say it is?

---

not a joke.

---

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

[ QUOTE ]
Dont like farming Posi? Make it so we dont HAVE to. I would like to be able to run a few story arcs and have everything I need to purp out my 50.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a completely delusional fantasy.


[ QUOTE ]
I would also like to be able to shut off my inf, not just my xp, and earn triple prestige. I would also like the exchange rate for buying prestige to be uh...more economically viable.

[/ QUOTE ]
This, on the other hand, is basically a good idea. I would love to be able to choose to earn zero influence and extra prestige.

---

Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

thank you.

---

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

Well then... let's take a crack at this, shall we?

[ QUOTE ]
everything that we can get in the game including hami's needs to be available thru the merit system. the items that are 50+ merits needs to be brought down to like 5 or 10.

[/ QUOTE ]
The stated reason Hami-Os and purples aren't available through the merit system is because they are supposed to be rare and hard to obtain. Positron was asked why they weren't available, and his reply basically stated "if we see a demand for them, we'll add them, but they'll cost an obscene amount of merits."

[ QUOTE ]
If everything was made available more people would be able to trick out their characters in a resonable ammount of time and be more encouraged to make new characters -

[/ QUOTE ]
If everything was made more available people would quickly grow bored with their characters and move on. IOs are supposed to bring a depth to your character that the normal game doesn't - I know many, many people who shelved their 50s but dug them out again when IOs came out. It's not supposed to be easy and cheap to IO a character with all the best sets. Rare stuff is rare for a reason. If you want to get your character enhanced on the cheap, there are SOs. They've been around since the beginning and they're still perfectly viable.

[ QUOTE ]
It would also reduce the cost of all the rare items on the market because these things would be more available IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]
They're supposed to be expensive, because not everyone is supposed to have them. Asking for all the purples and things like that to be easily accessible to everyone is like asking for everyone to have a Ferrari. Would it be nice? Sure. Is it going to happen? Nope.

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to see lvl 50's have the ability to get purped out..,. SOLO...

[/ QUOTE ]
You can. It isn't hard. Instead of complaining about the merit system and the market, make them work for you. Do a little research and spend a few minutes at the market each day, maybe run a TF, and you'll have enough inf and merits to work with. Trust me, I've done it.

[ QUOTE ]
Having the rare stuff cost entirely too many merits and having the hard to find stuff cost entirely too many merits doesnt make it worth anyones time to hound for merits.

[/ QUOTE ]
Correct. It's still far more efficient to buy most things with inf rather than merits. Merits are good for the random rolls, which you can use to generate inf to buy what you want. Thinking you need to use merits to buy everything is a surefire way to be disappointed.

[ QUOTE ]
Dont like farming Posi? Make it so we dont HAVE to. I would like to be able to run a few story arcs and have everything I need to purp out my 50.

[/ QUOTE ]
You don't have to farm Posi. I haven't run a Posi in ages. Instead I run story arcs and other task forces that offer much better merit rewards per time spent. You're in essence asking that you be given the best IOs in the game without putting any effort into it, which is stupid at the very least. If IOing and purpling a toon was supposed to be easy, it would be.

[ QUOTE ]
I would also like to be able to shut off my inf, not just my xp, and earn triple prestige. I would also like the exchange rate for buying prestige to be uh...more economically viable.

[/ QUOTE ]
The triple prestige idea is a good one, but there's a reason the exchange rate for inf to prestige kinda sucks - as a level 50 you are able to generate inf so quickly just through kills that you could convert that into a lot of prestige. Besides, two or three mission completion bonuses (so, maybe 30 minutes of gameplay) should give enough prestige to pay your SG upkeep for a month. I get 344 prestige per completion at level 50, and my upkeep is 500.

[ QUOTE ]
I hope this doesnt turn into a wall of txt and im not looking to get flamed. I would like to see these changes because i honestly think that they would fix alot of the problems with the availability of things on the market. a purple recipe shouldnt cost 100,000,000 inf. it should cost 10 merits max. and story arcs need to pay at least 50 merits. that would fix everything.

[/ QUOTE ]
See above - it wouldn't fix anything and would only cause more problems than it solves. If you want the best stuff for your character, you need to be willing to put in the effort required to get that stuff, not have it handed to you.

---

this game is a way of life for some folks i guess.

---

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

thank you for your input. That was actually directed at mr posi, not a reference to the TF. I do see some of your point, about the hami's, everything else, I stand by my opinion.

---

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

[ QUOTE ]
If everything was made more available people would quickly grow bored with their characters and move on. IOs are supposed to bring a depth to your character that the normal game doesn't - I know many, many people who shelved their 50s but dug them out again when IOs came out. It's not supposed to be easy and cheap to IO a character with all the best sets. Rare stuff is rare for a reason. If you want to get your character enhanced on the cheap, there are SOs. They've been around since the beginning and they're still perfectly viable.

[/ QUOTE ] Speak for yourself on this. I know I would like to be able to IO alot easier. It wouldnt make me bored with them either. It would mean I can play my toons the way I used to prior to inventions. Currently I have put at least 50+ alts on hold because of IOs. Because the way merits work I am stuck farming on a single toon per server just to IO out the rest of the Alts. If the system was changed then each alt could get their stuff faster and I could play them or they could earn their own IOs instead of having me to have to transfer them to the alt or leave them in the base storage.

---

Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

That goes for alot of us I think. Thank you for shareing.

---

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

If everything was made more available, it would take the maniacle marketeers that like to charge 100,000,000 for a single recipe , and the online inf traders.... and stop them dead in their tracks, thus liberating the casual gamer to "enjoy playing the game" again. I can see why my opinion would generate such ferver against my ideas. Its really all about takeing power away from the people that....truely are ruining the game.

---

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

[ QUOTE ]
I know I would like to be able to IO alot easier. It wouldnt make me bored with them either. It would mean I can play my toons the way I used to prior to inventions. Currently I have put at least 50+ alts on hold because of IOs. Because the way merits work I am stuck farming on a single toon per server just to IO out the rest of the Alts. If the system was changed then each alt could get their stuff faster and I could play them or they could earn their own IOs instead of having me to have to transfer them to the alt or leave them in the base storage.


[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree.

In fact, I'm getting really bored trying to come up with enough merits to outfit my toons for pvp. Some of the things I want for my toons, e.g., like a kismet +ACC, Level 33 Crushing Impacts for Siren's Call, are taking me a lot longer than buying them would take, there are simply none for sale at the market (I don't play any villains on Freedom, and I never will...I'm commenting about heroside).

Positron as a TF stinks. It's boring, tedious, and annoying. I'll run it one time for badges and some merits. But I need to run it FOUR TIMES so I can almost afford a LoTG proc???? F that. I won't do it.

As a result, my characters are taking too long to get PvP-optimized. At the rate I'm going I won't have PvP-optimized toons for Siren's Call on my second builds until I receive my 60 month vet reward. And I do not want to 'break' my primary builds for Siren's Call: They have level 50 IOs and I want to keep it that way. I have two choices: play my toons as is and get ganked or avoid PvP entirely. The first option is frutstrating and the second option is boring: I do PvE FOR PvP, it's a means to an end.

My 50's have lotsa money, it doesn't matter, because I cannot buy anything in Siren's Call range with said money. I can always do RV, but that isn't always what I want to do for PvP. BTW, I cannot stand arena PvP.

The reward merit costs of all the IOs is too expensive, big time. I want to do some TFs and outfit my toons NOW. I don't want to do TFs until JUNE just to outfit ONE toon.

At this rate, I'll get my 60 month vet at the time my yearly subscription expires. I should also be playing Champions Online and the Star Trek game as well, if they are out and they are any good. If this frustrating situation doesn't have a solution by then, I could conceivably not renew for year 6, but I would like to see what the rewards are. I would like to keep playing. I would like to actually see how well my toons do in Siren's Call when they are built for Siren's Call.

If year 72 vet reward is 50% off of merit costs that would be a sweet reward.

---

Prime example. thank you for your feedback. I hope this gains momentum.

---

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

[ QUOTE ]
I want to do some TFs and outfit my toons NOW. I don't want to do TFs until JUNE just to outfit ONE toon.


[/ QUOTE ]

This.

I wouldn't go so far as Krakken is suggesting, that's extreme IMO. However, merit costs are too high for my playstyle. Prior to I-13 I could gradually build my multiple characters over time, occasionally get a recipe drop from a task force that I could use, now that's just not possible.

I can't buy what's not available on the market. I'm not interested in farming task forces over and over and over and over and over. I would like to continue playing the way I want to, and maybe get a merit-purchased recipe a couple times a month.

I alternate characters, I earn 6 merits here, 25 merits there, and 40 merits over there.... and I still haven't earned enough merits on any character to buy a single recipe yet. Not even a knockback protection.

I thought this system was supposed to help me, the casual player, instead it favors the farmers. I see the potential, but the merit costs are too high, and the pools are too confusing. It needs to be cheaper and simplified.

---

Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.

[ QUOTE ]
Speak for yourself on this. I know I would like to be able to IO alot easier. It wouldnt make me bored with them either. It would mean I can play my toons the way I used to prior to inventions. Currently I have put at least 50+ alts on hold because of IOs. Because the way merits work I am stuck farming on a single toon per server just to IO out the rest of the Alts. If the system was changed then each alt could get their stuff faster and I could play them or they could earn their own IOs instead of having me to have to transfer them to the alt or leave them in the base storage.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're merit farming on a single toon, you're doing something wrong. Play your alts more. Contrary to what the popular opinion around here is, you don't need IOs to be good. I use commons on my characters until I can find the time to IO them as I want (note I said want not need). Trying to use "these toons don't have IOs so I can't play them!" is a pretty weak excuse. I'd like to be able to slot IOs easier as well... but when everyone is super, no one is super. People that complained about the market and reward drops are part of what brought the merit system upon us, and I'm sure even you'll admit its impact has been less than positive especially redside.

[ QUOTE ]
If everything was made more available, it would take the maniacle marketeers that like to charge 100,000,000 for a single recipe , and the online inf traders.... and stop them dead in their tracks, thus liberating the casual gamer to "enjoy playing the game" again. I can see why my opinion would generate such ferver against my ideas. Its really all about takeing power away from the people that....truely are ruining the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not the marketeers' fault that players are willing to pay 100 million for a single enhancement. You assume as though the sellers determine what everything gets listed at, and they do to an extent. I could list my Trap of the Hunter for 2 billion inf but no one would buy it. The buyer determines what prices the seller is able to list their item for, not the other way around. Regarding RMT spammers, they've always been around. The introduction of "loot" to the game greatly increased their presence. If you want them gone, the solution is not lower prices but the complete removal of the market and IOs from the game - because the people that are lazy and stupid now will still be lazy and stupid when everything is cheaper.

This argument about the "casual player" and "enjoying the game" doesn't work, unfortunately. The "casual player" doesn't care about IOing their toon with the best stuff available. As soon as they do, they're no longer a "casual player" and need to take steps to work toward their goal instead of expecting it to be handed to them. Last time I checked, IOs weren't a requirement to enjoy the game, either. SOs are perfectly adequate for anything a casual player would hope to do. Once you try to do something in which IOs are "required," you are no longer a casual player. Quit pretending to be a champion of the "casual player" and realize that the "casual players" that are constantly complaining about this-or-that being unfair really aren't all that casual. Your argument about "taking power from the people that are ruining the game" also falls flat on its face - everyone has the same amount of power provided they are willing to put in the same amount of effort. If you're unable to do so, that's one thing. If you're able but aren't willing then you have no right to complain.

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, I'm getting really bored trying to come up with enough merits to outfit my toons for pvp. Some of the things I want for my toons, e.g., like a kismet +ACC, Level 33 Crushing Impacts for Siren's Call, are taking me a lot longer than buying them would take, there are simply none for sale at the market (I don't play any villains on Freedom, and I never will...I'm commenting about heroside).

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never had any problems finding what I wanted in the level ranges I wanted it. You mentioned Crushing Impacts - those are are all pool A (mob drop) recipes, meaning the merit system and marketeers have zero impact on them. Instead, blame the lack of people playing characters in those levels. If you really truly can't live without them, they're some of the cheapest recipes to purchase with merits.

[ QUOTE ]
Positron as a TF stinks. It's boring, tedious, and annoying. I'll run it one time for badges and some merits. But I need to run it FOUR TIMES so I can almost afford a LoTG proc???? F that. I won't do it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Run some of the other dozen or so task forces in the game. They won't kill you, I promise! Use your merits on random rolls unless you really are paranoid of the RNG. You'll make more in the long run and you might even get the exact recipe you need without having to pay full merit cost for it.

[ QUOTE ]
As a result, my characters are taking too long to get PvP-optimized. At the rate I'm going I won't have PvP-optimized toons for Siren's Call on my second builds until I receive my 60 month vet reward. And I do not want to 'break' my primary builds for Siren's Call: They have level 50 IOs and I want to keep it that way. I have two choices: play my toons as is and get ganked or avoid PvP entirely. The first option is frutstrating and the second option is boring: I do PvE FOR PvP, it's a means to an end.

[/ QUOTE ]
Protip: relying on IOs to PvP well means you're bad. If you think you're getting ganked because you don't have the best IOs, try this: player skill trumps build every single time with very rare exceptions. Especially with the new diminishing returns system in PvP, there's not much of a point in min-maxing an IO build anymore.

[ QUOTE ]
The reward merit costs of all the IOs is too expensive, big time. I want to do some TFs and outfit my toons NOW. I don't want to do TFs until JUNE just to outfit ONE toon.

[/ QUOTE ]
You act as though the only way to get all the IOs for your toon is with merits. If you are patient (remember, lack of patience is the origin of 90% of the complaints about the market) you should be able to get almost all your IOs with inf. Exceptions might be some of the lower-level pool C and D recipes (but you can thank the merit system for that, which is funny because everyone praised it as the solution to the price problem when it was announced).

Hopefully this clears up some confusion about the merit system, IOs, and builds in general.

---

[ QUOTE ]
I thought this system was supposed to help me, the casual player, instead it favors the farmers.

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean casual players are finally starting to see that the system hurts them, not helps them? The same thing many of us pointed out during beta? Huh.

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought this system was supposed to help me, the casual player, instead it favors the farmers.

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean casual players are finally starting to see that the system hurts them, not helps them? The same thing many of us pointed out during beta? Huh.

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot the obligatory "and the devs didn't listen to" between out and during. :P

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought this system was supposed to help me, the casual player, instead it favors the farmers.

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean casual players are finally starting to see that the system hurts them, not helps them? The same thing many of us pointed out during beta? Huh.

[/ QUOTE ]

It comes as no surprise, I was one of the people saying this would happen. Sarcasm at me is misdirected.

---

Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought this system was supposed to help me, the casual player, instead it favors the farmers.

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean casual players are finally starting to see that the system hurts them, not helps them? The same thing many of us pointed out during beta? Huh.

[/ QUOTE ]

It comes as no surprise, I was one of the people saying this would happen. Sarcasm at me is misdirected.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it was generalized. While I think a majority of players realized the possible negatives of the system, a very vocal minority threw (and continues to throw despite it wrecking them) praise at it like crazy.

---

I'd like to throw in my 2inf. Merits suck hardcore for me. I live in Tokyo and play from about 4am to maybe 9am CST at the latest. It's a terrible time to find teams and run TFs. Getting merits is a pain in the [censored]. I know my specific case doesn't apply to a lot of people. If you do have trouble getting on TFs for whatever reason it's hard to save up merits.

The recipes drying up on the market really hurts too. I'd almost prefer if they just had random rolls rather then allowing people to save up for a specific one.

---

Is anyone keeping track of positive vs. negative comments in this feedback thread?

The overall consensus seems to be that it's a good idea which fails in execution because you have to do TFs every day in a week just to get ONE thing you specifically want (and this isn't an option for many people). If that one thing is in pool C or D, you can take your chances with random rolls, but those favor marketers who don't CARE what they get as long as they can sell it.

MMOs are based around a "carrot on a stick" mentality to keep players playing and coming back for more. I think CoX is a fun and diverse enough game without having to resort to such practices. The thing is though... a lot of people don't. They PL to 50, want everything NOW, then kill stuff, get bored, and leave. It's not good for business to have players who only play for a month after a new issue is released then quit because they have everything.

So while i do not fault the devs strategy, I can also see the merit system not have the effect of allowing more casual players to get what they desire, as it was apparently designed to do.

Also, casual players have no way of knowing what is and isn't in Pool C or D (in-game, that is). People shouldn't have to go to paragon wiki to find out recipe X is only pool D and is not available over level 40, which means they should stop rolling for random level 50 pool Cs.

I would suggest the following:

Remove 3 common tech and 3 common arcane salvage pieces from the 10-25 pool (or rather, don't make them required for anything). Reduce the uncommon and rares, also. Characters of those levels can't even carry a lot of salvage anyway, so expecting them to be able to outfit themselves is imminently illogical.

Do the same thing with the 30-40, except only remove 1 or 2 pieces from each rarity/origin.

And then, increase the drop rate for all salvage and recipes. I mean, I've been on whole TFs where i get one common recipe and one rare salvage, and that's a GOOD run. And true, some people have nabbed 2 or 3 purples in a single run, but now that supply is dwindling, the devs need to do something before people just get fed up.

Now I know supply is low or non existant for some things because people don't play for very long in certain level ranges, and they tend to keep certain things for themselves, which is more than okay, that means the system is working as designed. However, the whole purpose of a market and a merit system, afaik, was supposed to be giving players the means to get things they want that are not available to them through normal play. And yet, if i want Impervuim Armor sets for my level 50 tanker, guess what? I have to farm level 40 arcs in ouroboros, hope for drops, and save up merits by running a TF every day and I'm really starting to get burned out here. Pulverizing Fisticuffs is even worse, because at such a low level it's really sorta difficult to defeat a good number of enemies and complete missions in a decent time frame. TFs would be ideal merit wise (and pool B wise), but for Pool As, forget it. It's really no-win here.

---

-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

[ QUOTE ]
If you're merit farming on a single toon, you're doing something wrong. Play your alts more. Contrary to what the popular opinion around here is, you don't need IOs to be good. I use commons on my characters until I can find the time to IO them as I want (note I said want not need). Trying to use "these toons don't have IOs so I can't play them!" is a pretty weak excuse. I'd like to be able to slot IOs easier as well... but when everyone is super, no one is super. People that complained about the market and reward drops are part of what brought the merit system upon us, and I'm sure even you'll admit its impact has been less than positive especially redside.


[/ QUOTE ] Many of the powersets in this game are flawed, and just arent playable "To Me". IOs making playing many of those sets possible. Just because you can get by on uncommons and commons doesnt mean you should. If I am even going to bother with IOs then I am going to always have the best of the best or not even do it. There is no middle ground on this. Also how do you figure I am doing it wrong? It makes more sense to put all your merits on a few toons so you can get the end results faster. Lvl 50s can pretty much do all the content in the game provided they have certain badges. So why restrict myself to just so little content. That pretty boring on an already boring system.

---

Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

I still stand by my opinion. edit: i also usually ignore walls of txt unless snow is posting then its bag of popcorn time!

---

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.