Attention comic artists to be.... *DELETED*
By
Absinth_Incubus,
Posted on: 2008-08-10 24:43 in Multi-Media Fan Creations
The moon police ?
I mean this in the most polite way but your not scoring any points by continuing with this discussion as it stands right now im doubting your gonna get too many bites from the various arty types . best to just let the thread die
I'm a fan of score cards... let's look at the chronology here..
-OP comes and requests a comic done for free... and then insults the previous artists working on it.
-People say they understand his passion, but that his wording was wrong.
-OP defends his position.
-I say that 200 hours of work should equal pay.
-OP says that doing work for free is a comon part of comics.
-OP PMs me and rants... and then asks me not to reply.
-OP posts on here askin people not to PM him.
Ok, that about does it so far.
What's next?
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well thats the thing. i did pay for the web comic pages even though most other writers/artist do not pay for them. generally speaking, web comics arent paid for. only the printed stuff.
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Oh how little you know... as someone who was around during the "birth" of WebComics Nation, Modern Tales, Girlamatic, and a few big name PAY web comic sites, this statement does not compute. Apparently you've not heard of Penny Arcade, PvP Online, Leisure Town (one of the original webcomics out there), Something Positive (the artist/writer quit his day job to do his webcomic fulltime), Diesel Sweeties, The Dreamland Chronicles (Hey! I'm being paid to work on a webcomic. INSANITY!)... amongst others.
I hate to tell you this dude, but you really ought to get off that high horse of yours... you do not know everything about comics like you seem to think you do.
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-OP says that doing work for free is a comon part of comics.
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It's not nor should it be commonplace in the comics industry to do free work. From my wonderful friend, Lea Hernandez, who worked with some of the top comic companies out there, she told me and everyone around her a rather short list of things to look for when taking on comic jobs. This is obviously, paraphrased.
If the person says do the work for free: RUN FOR THE HILLS. You're worth more than that.
If the person says they'll pay you AFTER it's printed: THEY ARE LYING TO YOUR FACE. RUN FOR THE HILLS.
If the person says they'll compensate you with a percentage of sales: THEY ARE ATTEMPTING TO GET FREE WORK. RUN FOR THE HILLS.
Now, I said earlier in this thread that I did a story for a friend for free, about five pages. There's a difference there. The person I worked for was not only a friend and collaborator, but is a known name in the comics industry for many years and is trusted by everyone that knows him. THAT is the difference. He had the experience and years in the industry to get folks to work for him for free. His projects are labors of love, not objects for profit.
Can I be your friend? You can sleep on my futon. I'll even get a futon.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
This is now my favourite thread ever.
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This is now my favourite thread ever.
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I'll bet you say that to all the threads.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Can I be your friend? You can sleep on my futon. I'll even get a futon.
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I'm not sure if you're talking about Juggy's posts of awesome or my grumpy posts... but if it is the later, we already have a futon, come on over :P
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This is now my favourite thread ever.
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Popcorn goes great with this thread....
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This is now my favourite thread ever.
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Popcorn goes great with this thread....
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I agree. Especially caramel popcorn. Yum!
Now if we just had some Jolt cola...
"If I fail, they write me off as another statistic. If I succeed, they pay me a million bucks to fly out to Hollywood and fart." --- George A. Romero
"If I had any dignity, that would have been humiliating" --- Adam Savage
Virtue Server: Kheprera, Malefic Elf, Lady Omen, Night Rune, La Muerte Roja, Scarab Lafayette, Serena Ravensong, Kyrse, and Arachnavoodoo among others.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a fan of score cards... let's look at the chronology here..
-OP comes and requests a comic done for free... and then insults the previous artists working on it.
-People say they understand his passion, but that his wording was wrong.
-OP defends his position.
-I say that 200 hours of work should equal pay.
-OP says that doing work for free is a comon part of comics.
-OP PMs me and rants... and then asks me not to reply.
-OP posts on here askin people not to PM him.
Ok, that about does it so far.
What's next?
[/ QUOTE ]
I admit my wording was wrong. I should've been clearer in the initial posting. For that I apologize to everyone. I'm also apologetic for being cranky and being embittered by my three recent bad experiences.
Other writers here have emailed me that certain artists are a temperamental lot and that I shouldn't have let those 3 most recent events get to me. There will always be writers & artists who give the rest a bad name. I'm sorry for being so standoffish. Some artists even told me some horror stories they went through with other artists and writers.
Juggertha, I asked people to stop sending me harassing messages through my regular email address not through PM here. Why did you say I asked ppl. to not PM me?
I asked you to not respond to me because your attitude from the beginning towards me was uncalled. If you responded differently instead of being snarky, things would've been different. I never said I was good enough that I should have people give me pages for free. Where did you get that from?
As for insulting the artists, if you want a sample of how the art got worse near the end, I'll send you the link. If you want copies of the email from the artist who thought himself better than any regular DC artists, I'll be happy to fwd. them to you. I cannot put up with anyone
I find it immature that someone compares himself to Alex Ross or Gene Ha. I mean, Gene Ha! Come on! The man is a god! Alex Ross! What can one say about his art?
Putting up with constant emails about how "he sucks and his photo-realistic art is uncalled for comics" is quite tiring. I rather be honest about people like that.
I also am honest with art that's really good. Like your art. It's damn good, juggertha. I like it so much I would work for you pro bono and promote the hell out of it to other writers and artists. I would never ask for a penny.
Should one lie about how bad someone had gotten over the months or should they be honest about it? I've seen too many artists and writers deal with people whose smug attitudes have ruined potentially awesome projects.
Listen man, it's not that you need to lie about how good or bad the previous artists were, it's the fact that they were not relevant to your initial request.
You could have said "I've been trying to get a web comi I've written started up, and am wondering if anyone out there is willing to help me. Here's sample of what I'm doing, and I'd appreciate any interest or feedback you can give."
But instead you decided to bash the guys who you had worked with... that's always a bad sign - in any profession.
You say I've been snarky with you from the get-go, but look at what I originally wrote:
"OP, I'm not the greatest artist around, so maybe this won't be a loss to you, but going from you post... I wouldn't work with ya.
Sorry man, but for a NON PAYING JOB that you want done, you post left exactly the wrong taste in my mouth.
Better luck next time. "
It's fairly straight forward, and in fact, I'm wishing you luck in your next attempt.
It's when you decided that YOU WERE RIGHT and any dissenting voice was wrong, that this forum turned snarky. Look at all the replies to your post.. most of them.. in fact all of them, were trying to help you out - but you didn't want anything about it.
You PM'd me... why? So that YOU could be heard. You didn't want to hear from me, YOU just wanted to make sure that YOUR side was known.
And somehow I'm supposed to respect that.
When YOUR SIDE was getting lambasted on the forum, what did you do? You deleted your posts and asked how to delete the thread.
No one is calling you names.
No one is calling out your family or friends.
What people are doing is this, and pay attention because they've been saying from the start, they're telling you that you're approaching this thing from the wrong perspective.
I'm glad you like my art, and I thank you for the compliment, but I wouldn't work with you. NOT because of your ability (honestly, never read your stuff - sorry), but because of how you've handled yourself through this whole thing.
I said it in my first reply here, and I'll say it again - good luck in your next attempt. I hope you learn something from some of the advice people have given you here.
Regardless of how you came off or how people responded to your project, i think it's misguided to come here looking for a comic artist. I can draw and paint reasonably well to produce images. Illustrating a narrative that continues over time, where the artist has to draw lots of mundane things in the backgrounds at various angles, people with good anatomy, dramatic expressions, and so on is a different ball of wax.
I can think of a few people here that have the ability to do it and I'm certain they are busy with their professional lives.
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Should one lie about how bad someone had gotten over the months or should they be honest about it? I've seen too many artists and writers deal with people whose smug attitudes have ruined potentially awesome projects.
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Well I can sympathize with you for having bad experiences, but I don't see how it really relates to you coming here to find artists.
Also my brain is overflowing with potentially awesome projects. All the time. They are just floating around in different states of potentiality. I usually turn the awesome knob down a bit to the level where I can actually accomplish something.
Blacklisted
"I'AM SATANS FAVORITE CHILD!!"
I think what you're looking for is a young and up and coming machine, who can draw 10 panels without blinking, and is so hungry to get published they will work for free with hopes of everything panning out as promised.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that person exists, but probably not on this board. I was recently asked to do a 5 -7 page online comic for LESS than the prices you originally quoted. While at the time I thought the effort would be worth the price, I know the work would have been grueling, because artists for the most part are perfectionists who are never happy with their own work...
I may still do those pages, but I will have to see how hungry I am for it when the times comes.
Originally I found your first post to be a little disturbing because the promise of money isn't money, especially when bills are pending. While I may work on my childhood friend's comic for next to nothing, that's a different relationship than one with a stranger. But then I don't know your writing, you may have a fantastic idea someone eager will want to jump on, or it may just be okay, and well then the money issue comes back.
Good luck finding someone that passionate, the best revenge is at the bank, an perhaps you will survive to get that on all of those who told you the premise wasn't going to happen.
It has been pointed out that whatever work we do, we'd prefer to earn a wage for, and perhaps these bad past experiences with other artists have sullied your courage to go down that road again. But I put it to you that is only takes one yes to get something off the imaginary drawing board, and that yes will have to come from several individuals for something of quality to take off... not just you, not just the artist, but a distributor as well.
IF anything take into account what this discussion has taught you, the experience of those working in the industry, of the artists on this board, and that like most situations, you get more flies with honey.
I have heard private horror stories of certain artists, and hopefully none of those include me, on any account, I wish you luck.
LJ
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I'm a fan of score cards... let's look at the chronology here..
-OP comes and requests a comic done for free... and then insults the previous artists working on it.
-People say they understand his passion, but that his wording was wrong.
-OP defends his position.
-I say that 200 hours of work should equal pay.
-OP says that doing work for free is a comon part of comics.
-OP PMs me and rants... and then asks me not to reply.
-OP posts on here askin people not to PM him.
Ok, that about does it so far.
What's next?
[/ QUOTE ]
I admit my wording was wrong. I should've been clearer in the initial posting. For that I apologize to everyone. I'm also apologetic for being cranky and being embittered by my three recent bad experiences.
Other writers here have emailed me that certain artists are a temperamental lot and that I shouldn't have let those 3 most recent events get to me. There will always be writers & artists who give the rest a bad name. I'm sorry for being so standoffish. Some artists even told me some horror stories they went through with other artists and writers.
Juggertha, I asked people to stop sending me harassing messages through my regular email address not through PM here. Why did you say I asked ppl. to not PM me?
I asked you to not respond to me because your attitude from the beginning towards me was uncalled. If you responded differently instead of being snarky, things would've been different. I never said I was good enough that I should have people give me pages for free. Where did you get that from?
As for insulting the artists, if you want a sample of how the art got worse near the end, I'll send you the link. If you want copies of the email from the artist who thought himself better than any regular DC artists, I'll be happy to fwd. them to you. I cannot put up with anyone
I find it immature that someone compares himself to Alex Ross or Gene Ha. I mean, Gene Ha! Come on! The man is a god! Alex Ross! What can one say about his art?
Putting up with constant emails about how "he sucks and his photo-realistic art is uncalled for comics" is quite tiring. I rather be honest about people like that.
I also am honest with art that's really good. Like your art. It's damn good, juggertha. I like it so much I would work for you pro bono and promote the hell out of it to other writers and artists. I would never ask for a penny.
Should one lie about how bad someone had gotten over the months or should they be honest about it? I've seen too many artists and writers deal with people whose smug attitudes have ruined potentially awesome projects.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oy. You really should have stopped after "I apologize."
Like Jester said to Maverick, "That was some of the best flying I've ever seen. Right up until you got killed."
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
okay im betting threadlock come clock in time for the mods and for once the thread won't have my fingerprints on it
<mandark laugh> mwahahahaha mwah ha ha ha haha
by the way Rocket Boy , Kheprera I must extoll to you the virtues of Caramel kettle corn , if your gonna watch some back and fourth you must do so with style
<eats her kettle corn with her pinky out >
I realize I should've been more tactful. But when I got some really disgusting emails, I lashed out and got defensive. Lord knows I tried to be rational but I kept thinking back to some horror stories I heard about the crap artists & writers went through. I let that stuff get to me which caused me to lose my temper. Let's say some of the stories would make you retch.
While I'm hesitant to keep replying here, I've got some time to kill while the pizza is in the oven and I'm gearing up to watch Generation Kill.
NYCPulpWriter, you have been consistent in one thing... laying blame on others. You talk about how artists have wronged you, how people have emailed you nasty things, how people here are taking you wrong...
but I've gotta' break it to you man, I'm feeling like I really don't care about all that stuff that much. I mean, I don't wish you any ill will or anything, but all of those stories are just seeming like excuses right now.
"I was rude because someone was rude to me"
"I was short because people are not understanding me"
NYCPulpWriter, have I ever emailed you? Ever Pm'd you?
No.
I never shafted you on a piece either.
Has anyone on this forum shafted you?
If not, why do you keep rubbing our noses in it?
Honestly man, don't deal with me carrying all of your baggage from some other place. Deal with me for what I've said and done.
dude, i never said you were harassing me in private.
So before the lock i'm gonna just add this again because it keeps coming up. With your previous "bad experiences", when the work started getting bad, were you not still approving pencils? Approving lineart and whats going on in the pieces? For me, i'd want updates after every lineart especially if it was my dream.
So my advice stays the same. Find an artist you like, pay them per page and make sure you get updates after the penciled work to approve. After everything you've said in this thread and how you have presented yourself to the fanart community here, i doubt you'll find that artist here but like Juggy, i wish you the best of luck finding that artist.
I started posting trying to help out and got called "snarky" for it in your PM. I know i sound bitter but i get all protective about people in this forum 
Thats all i got to say about that.
*sits back, eats some popcorn with Scarfy and the gang and waits for the lock* 
PS: Juggy, wait till it's all done to post it up brother
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dude, i never said you were harassing me in private.
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No, I get that. what I'm saying is that you arrived here with a chip on your shoulder. It was evident in your initial post, and it's been clear in a number that followed.
If you're mad about artists shafting you - deal with them.
If you're mad about someone emailing you - deal with them.
I'm not really interested in them, and am tired of you calling on those examples for why you posted what you did.
Deal with the people in this forum for who they are and what they've done... I think that'll help you communicate better with everyone (you do realize that it's 10 - 1 here right? And while that does not automatically indicate who is right and who is wrong, it'd should be a hint in your direction that you might want to revisit your approach).
Show of hands: who thinks Jugg and NYC Pulp should make angry manlove right now?
*keeps sitting in a plushie la-z-boy type theater seat with a biggest gulp sitting in the arm rest and occasionally snags some caramel popcorn from Khepera, and wondering how much longer this show is gonna last*
*raises both hands, and Foo's*
MA Arcs - #67636, #92202
deviantart page
Slag Heap: Why you hurt Guardian!? Guardian no hurt you!
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Show of hands: who thinks Jugg and NYC Pulp should make angry manlove right now?
[/ QUOTE ]
lmao!!!
*raises hand just to see what happens*
I think someone has a special kink! 
MA Arcs - #67636, #92202
deviantart page
Slag Heap: Why you hurt Guardian!? Guardian no hurt you!
"The next person to send me a flame via my private email will be reported for harassment to the proper authorities. "
Just to be clear on somethin for everyone... I've never Pm'd this guy. He PM'd ME... ranted, and then asked me NOT to PM him.
If anyone else is PMing him, please stop. It's always better to deal with an issue like this in public so others can learn from it.