Attention comic artists to be.... *DELETED*
By
Absinth_Incubus,
Posted on: 2008-08-10 24:43 in Multi-Media Fan Creations
True but you are just looking at the top writers vs not the best artists.
Those writers are also doing other non-comic book stuff too.
I was thinking more along the lines of equal level guys, but yeah, there are great writers out there who are what really makes the comics great.
I am glad you mentioned sandman. If you read the first trade paperback, ther eis an intro from the guy who hired him. It was about how Neil had great ideas but the main thing holding him back from giving him a job at one time was if he had the ability to pull it off.
Everyone here has great ideas, writers and artists. The thing that makes a person a great writer is if they are able to take a good or great idea and pull it off.
Now when it comes to comic books, alot of the time, not always but alot, the writers will make either a detailed script or a quick script depending on the situation. (Stan Lee would do alot of quick scripts that didnt break down the frames cuz he was working on so many different titles, it was up to the artists to fill in alot of the writing and do alot of the "pulling off")
Artists do more with the writering than most realize, not just the framing and whatnot. Thats why writers and artists have to work together. Idealy writers and artists should be doing there combined work and not just one of the party's ideas.
Thats why a pure writer is fine but artists (good comic book artists) are good writers in there own write and could fucntion without the pure writer partner.
Sure you have artists who write something and it sucks. But then again you have writers who do something and it sucks, so to make a fare comparision, we should look at the stuff that is equal.
Didnt frank miller write and draw some of his comics? I thought Sin City was one he drew himself.
If thats the case then thats a good example of kind of what I ment.
Need help making your own CoH comics or read other's comics at cohcomicindex.com
www.jkcomics.com for Justice-Knights comics series and more!
Storylines:
Introductions, Obey,
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I need to speak up about the "artists are better than writers because etc. etc....".
Do comics work without artists? Of course not. Do comics work without writers? Of course not. I don't think that making a broad, general statement that artists are superior to writers, in the comics field, is very valid. Most of the great characters in comics were created by writers, not artists. On the flip side, the one time a bunch of "superstar artists" got together and came up with some original content, the result was the Image line. Love or hate the Image line, it's tough to argue that anything the founding members did was anything other than shallow imitations of characters and stories from the companies they left.
[/ QUOTE ]
As a writer, I'm a champion of writers. But regarding the comic book medium, the artist does have a greater degree of difficulty, which is what I think Sin Stalker meant. Marvel and DC tend to agree, because the artist gets a larger portion of the money, a 60-40 split as I recall.
I'm okay with that, because the artist's job *is* tougher than the writer's.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL thank you for pointing that out. In two sentences you explain what I was trying.
Its funny how I want to be and consider myself a writer and yet I am bad with words when I talk normally. Hense why I will never be a book writer but visual is another story... 
P.S. pun not intended.
Need help making your own CoH comics or read other's comics at cohcomicindex.com
www.jkcomics.com for Justice-Knights comics series and more!
Storylines:
Introductions, Obey,
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmm ya know...
I've seen a comic with no words but letting the pictures tell the story. But i can't say that i've seen a comic released with no art..
Just saying.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually... I can argue this.
Marjane Satrapi did a graphic novel that has very, very simple pictures, the kind of pictures your kid sister could draw. Not very impressive by themselves. I personally would not read the book just on the pictures, basically. However, the writing is really interesting and engaging. Turns out it's a really popular book and got turned into an animated movie. Even though the pictures are really something your kid sister could draw.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm going to poke this one because Marjane Satrapi is an accomplished French Cartoonist. The pictures may appear simple, however, as far as I'm concerned, it is much harder to draw simple cartoons and make them look as elegant as Satrapi did. Yes, the writing was engaging, but the artwork was just as engaging as her words. I'd also note that Will Eisner's work was fairly simple in design, but brilliant, as was Art Speigelman and his work with Maus, the first graphic novel to grab the attention of the public and say, "Comics are a VALID format of storytelling and aren't just for kids."
When I went to school to learn animation and story, we weren't told "Okay guys, let's draw like your little sister would draw!" We learned the foundational skills of anatomy and design to be able to simplify the form into something that Eisner, Speigelman, and Satrapi did. We broke down movies like Citizen Kane and simple written tales like Aesop's Fables to understand how story worked. It's something your kid sister wouldn't be able to do, even though it may look to the untrained eye as such. The reason Persepolis was designed as it was is because the main character was a child, and you grew up with her as you read the book.
I'd like to suggest you read Blankets sometime by Craig Thompson or Goodbye Chunky Rice. Again, a beautiful simple, elegant style that is hard to mimic and even harder to perfect.
As far as Persepolis is concerned, it would have made an interesting book, but Marjane meant to put words and pictures together because it's a marriage between the two that created a powerful story that took the world by storm.
Lastly, I would also like to point out that a story need not be written. Writing is not storytelling inherently. Storytelling is defined by all the senses.
and thats why we keep Sayterra around! 
Anyone who remembers Todd McFarlanes Spiderman series will attest to the fact that MORE than just great art is needed.
I don't understand. Are we equating McFarlane with great art now?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand. Are we equating McFarlane with great art now?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, *goes to the basement*
*stares at Mr Alpha One's Angel collection*
Ya he's pretty good.
*the mr has every...single...angel except for the Collectors club Lotus and Biker Chick...*
Even a few variants as well.
@MrsAlphaOne
Member of the [url="http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=171543&TabID=1451954"]RIMC[/url]
[url="http://www.freewebs.com/mrsalphaone"]DA![/url]
[color=red]Official Beer Wench of PWNZ[/color] Arc 452196 When Madness Reigns over Reason. Play it and PM me your constructive criticism on what I can tweak before Oct 20th. <3 U all
On that note, can anyone tell me why Rob Liefield is so hated? Is it because of his inventive anatomy style? I'm not a big fan, but he does have a distinct style...
[ QUOTE ]
On that note, can anyone tell me why Rob Liefield is so hated? Is it because of his inventive anatomy style? I'm not a big fan, but he does have a distinct style...
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's a big thing about it, I think his ego is another, and the fact that he reportedly traced porn for his female characters is still another.
If you do a yahoo search for Rob Liefeld, one of the links will be for a site called Progressive Boink, which gives a rather lengthy and mildly amusing tirade on why he doesn't like Liefeld. I'd link to it, but it's full of profanity and I don't want to be modsmacked.
TL
[ QUOTE ]
On that note, can anyone tell me why Rob Liefield is so hated? Is it because of his inventive anatomy style? I'm not a big fan, but he does have a distinct style...
[/ QUOTE ]
Is "inventive anatomy style" a way of saying, "he can't draw bodies for [censored]"?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On that note, can anyone tell me why Rob Liefield is so hated? Is it because of his inventive anatomy style? I'm not a big fan, but he does have a distinct style...
[/ QUOTE ]
Is "inventive anatomy style" a way of saying, "he can't draw bodies for [censored]"?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.
[ QUOTE ]
If you do a yahoo search for Rob Liefeld, one of the links will be for a site called Progressive Boink, which gives a rather lengthy and mildly amusing tirade on why he doesn't like Liefeld. I'd link to it, but it's full of profanity and I don't want to be modsmacked.
TL
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not even going to draw the other hand. No one will notice.
How many teeth are in a mouth? Like, a billion? I'll draw a billion.
@Liz!
sketches on tumblr | finished pieces and resources on dA
Currently most active:
Shining Finger: 40 Elec/Titan][Summer's Son: 38 Fire/Fire/Pyre
Badgers:
Hyperion Tekk][Dark-stream
City of Heroes LiveJournal community.
Friendly, helpful and surprisingly light on the drama.
Save our game Master post.
Wow. That guy has Leifield's number. I've never enjoyed seeing someone ripped apart, but this, this is art (which is more than we can say about Leifield's work).
Everybody who wants to draw comics needs to read that as a primer on what NOT to ever do as an artist.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On that note, can anyone tell me why Rob Liefield is so hated? Is it because of his inventive anatomy style? I'm not a big fan, but he does have a distinct style...
[/ QUOTE ]
Is "inventive anatomy style" a way of saying, "he can't draw bodies for [censored]"?
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously. Even Helen Keller today could draw better than Liefield.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
[ QUOTE ]
On that note, can anyone tell me why Rob Liefield is so hated? Is it because of his inventive anatomy style? I'm not a big fan, but he does have a distinct style...
[/ QUOTE ]
His arrogance, his lack of anatomical knowledge... There's a difference between knowing anatomy and stylizing it, and NOT knowing anatomy and calling it your style. He's also one of the most famous swipers out there, meaning he just steals other people's work when he feels it necessary, which seems to be frequently as I think he was called out on it just about everywhere. When I was young and new to comics, and went through my mainstream comic phase, I tons of stuff by Liefield. Now I like to call him KING OF WEASEL MEN. Seriously, if there was a person in the background, they looked like weasels. He also had absolutely no idea how anatomy worked.
http://progressiveboink.com/b/images...efeldgirl1.gif
Here's my example. Anyone can find the "Liefeld's 40 Worst Drawings" rant by checking through Google. So take a look at that image again. Please tell me how that woman is supposed to survive without internal organs. This is what happens when you hire a horny teenager into your HUGE studio, and never get him anatomy lessons.
So what does good ole Rob do?
http://adlo.dreamers.com/estudios/comparativas.htm
He steals stuff. Called swiping in comics, it's called copyright infringement and art theft in the real world. David Mack was also called out for doing the same thing a few months ago, stealing from Adam Hughes. There's a big difference between homages and swiping. Normally, when someone does an homage, it's noted somewhere and/or they also have also asked. What I find funny though is, his source material is so much better than his swipes. Check out the Wolverine profile he swiped and the leg. In the original, the original artist had a great sense of how the quads on the leg worked, and the form of the leg. Theeeen you have Liefeld's take on it. The sausage leg.
When Rob isn't stealing stuff, he's making up anatomy, like how many abs a person has, or...
http://i.somethingawful.com/mjolnir/...ck~captain.jpg
Or how the ribcage works. Why Rob! I didn't know you had a fetish for moobs. You are aware that Captain America is standing in a profile shot right? Right???
http://www.deselbybowen.com/examples/liefeld-teeth.jpg
All teeth are the same size, same shape... as someone else said, "how many teeth does a person have? I'll just draw a billion..."
I honestly wouldn't pick on the guy if it wasn't for the fact that he's an absolutely arrogant piece of work.
I say we all storm Rob Liefeld's mansion and beat him with pillowcases full of oranges until he looks like one of his drawings!
/e starts angry mob
TL
::gos to get Medieval torture devices::
Crestent lvl 50 Mind/Emp Controller http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...cGallary-1.jpg
http://crestent.deviantart.com/
http://www.creyindustries.com/viewhero.php?id=21809
sayterra's right. most artists get better with age but liefeld... look at his run on Hawk & Dove. GREAT art but then... ehhh
That Captain America is terrible. Can anybody tell me why he got famous? Was he the only one applying for the jobs for many years? Did he sell his soul?
Although, I am only seeing his worst examples. Where are his best pieces?
[ QUOTE ]
That Captain America is terrible. Can anybody tell me why he got famous? Was he the only one applying for the jobs for many years? Did he sell his soul?
Although, I am only seeing his worst examples. Where are his best pieces?
[/ QUOTE ]
He did an issue of Uncanny X-Men (hiding in the Outback era)that wasn't terrible. X-Men in a bar playing poker. I believe it was a parody issue of the DC INVASION! event (which Todd Macfarlane was drawing).
Also, he did the issue of What If, What if Wolverine Was an Agent of Sheild, which surprised me it was him because it didn't really look like his art.....
Like NYC said, he started off okay, but once he gained a following and developed his "style", he started down the path of awfulness.
TL
[ QUOTE ]
I say we all storm Rob Liefeld's mansion and beat him with pillowcases full of oranges until he looks like one of his drawings!
/e starts angry mob
TL
[/ QUOTE ]
Cool on the way back can we stop off at Greg Land's place?
[img]http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/289/part1v.jpg[/img]
grrrr what happened to this thread 'sploding?! art forum needs to get better at flames and destruction!
Mew
[ QUOTE ]
grrrr what happened to this thread 'sploding?! art forum needs to get better at flames and destruction!
[/ QUOTE ]
We redirected the vitriol to where it was truly needed.
TL
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I say we all storm Rob Liefeld's mansion and beat him with pillowcases full of oranges until he looks like one of his drawings!
/e starts angry mob
TL
[/ QUOTE ]
Cool on the way back can we stop off at Greg Land's place?
[/ QUOTE ]
A curse on thee!
I like Greg Land's work. I've been re-reading Sojourn just this week, actually.
[ QUOTE ]
On that note, can anyone tell me why Rob Liefield is so hated? Is it because of his inventive anatomy style? I'm not a big fan, but he does have a distinct style...
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't *hate* him, but I wish he'd learn to draw hands and feet. And vut out about a thousand of the little lines. And change up the look every now and then. And...
My Deviant Art page link-link
CoH/V Fan Videos
[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I need to speak up about the "artists are better than writers because etc. etc....".
Do comics work without artists? Of course not. Do comics work without writers? Of course not. I don't think that making a broad, general statement that artists are superior to writers, in the comics field, is very valid. Most of the great characters in comics were created by writers, not artists. On the flip side, the one time a bunch of "superstar artists" got together and came up with some original content, the result was the Image line. Love or hate the Image line, it's tough to argue that anything the founding members did was anything other than shallow imitations of characters and stories from the companies they left.
[/ QUOTE ]
As a writer, I'm a champion of writers. But regarding the comic book medium, the artist does have a greater degree of difficulty, which is what I think Sin Stalker meant. Marvel and DC tend to agree, because the artist gets a larger portion of the money, a 60-40 split as I recall.
I'm okay with that, because the artist's job *is* tougher than the writer's.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction