City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Attention comic artists to be.... *DELETED*

Absinth_Incubus

By Absinth_Incubus,
Posted on: 2008-08-10 24:43 in Multi-Media Fan Creations

 

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I say we all storm Rob Liefeld's mansion and beat him with pillowcases full of oranges until he looks like one of his drawings!


/e starts angry mob

TL

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Cool on the way back can we stop off at Greg Land's place?

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A curse on thee!

I like Greg Land's work. I've been re-reading Sojourn just this week, actually.

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Land may be a world-class swiper along with Liefield, but at least he doesn't suck.

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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I say we all storm Rob Liefeld's mansion and beat him with pillowcases full of oranges until he looks like one of his drawings!


/e starts angry mob

TL

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Cool on the way back can we stop off at Greg Land's place?

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A curse on thee!

I like Greg Land's work. I've been re-reading Sojourn just this week, actually.

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I'm a big fan of the Gregs, for the most part. And the CrossGen stuff - I think I have about every issue of every one of their comics. I wish I could afford to buy a title or three.

My Deviant Art page link-link

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The difference is Greg Land can actually draw. He leans far too heavily on source material (I say, as I sit here making poses in Poser, ), but when he starts from scratch, Captain America doesn't end up with boobs and Picasso torso.

 

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This thread has certainly brought out the geek in all of us huh? lol

 

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I'm a big fan of the Gregs, for the most part. And the CrossGen stuff - I think I have about every issue of every one of their comics. I wish I could afford to buy a title or three.

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same here. I subscribed to all the CrossGen titles, Sojourn I loved for the art and the story.

@Hericane @Hericane2
MA Arcs - #67636, #92202
deviantart page
Slag Heap: Why you hurt Guardian!? Guardian no hurt you!

 

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The difference is Greg Land can actually draw. He leans far too heavily on source material (I say, as I sit here making poses in Poser, ), but when he starts from scratch, Captain America doesn't end up with boobs and Picasso torso.

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not as bad but

look at the girl in black on the left

And I'm not talking about the face she has (Land uses that exact face all the time). but the fact she has a 7 inch waist and 4 inch thick legs that come in from odd angles. and the girl behind her is missing the rest of her body.
This is not uncommon of the people in the backgrounds of his comic pages, Not so much on his covers or promo work.

What bothers me more than that, and more than all his art swiping. is the fact his female characters rarely look the same from page to page. On Fantastic Four Sue would go from wavy to straight hair and back across three panels on the same page.

[img]http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/289/part1v.jpg[/img]

 

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"...and the girl behind her is missing the rest of her body...."

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I don't see any missing bodies - they're all eclipsed by each other. I can make out where they are based on what I see, and their balance/proportions seem fine. I admit the girl in the black is a bit thin in the waist, but at least her spine isn't broken like in a Liefield.

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"...What bothers me more than that, and more than all his art swiping. is the fact his female characters rarely look the same from page to page..."

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I can only judge from Sojourn because that's all I've read that he was a part of, but I had the opposite feeling - that the ladies didn't look different ENOUGH. I could often find panels that used the same photo reference as a base... but I still find the overall effect beautiful enough to let that pass. Deadlines can be brutal.

 

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Whoa I think I opened up a can of Liefield worms... apologies to all... but wow thank you Say for that awesome expose... I had no idea he was so blatant! As for Land, yeah he does a lot of repetitive faces that I don't care for, it's not that he doesn't draw them well, it's just every hot girl can't be a clone? I do like his pacing though...

 

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One quick point, in re: to Ironik mentioning the artist/writer wage split (and we'll use the 60/40 figure, as I've no idea how to verify or challenge that)...

I'm imagining that the Big Two pay their employees along the same lines as most companies; for "value added" output. In other words, a known and popular artist will add more value to a book than a known and popular writer. Possibly true, possibly not. I think the split probably comes from the vastly different time it takes for writers and artists to do their jobs.

Here's a true (anecdotal) story: a comics writer is having drinks with one of his mates. The writer says, "Hey, want to see me make sixty dollars real quick?" His mate says, "Sure". The writer grabs a cocktail napkin and writes, "Page 2, Single Panel: Establishing Shot, NYC Skyline".

That did happen (I'm not personally involved in that story, but it still cracks me up). So the writer makes 60 bucks for his 5 seconds of "work", but then it's up to the artist to draw NYC's skyline, which will presumably take more than 5 seconds. So, the artists making more than the writers is a fair deal, I'd say.

...I used to own all of the Rob Liefeld New Mutants issues....oh, to be young...

 

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I don't see any missing bodies - they're all eclipsed by each other. I can make out where they are based on what I see, and their balance/proportions seem fine. I admit the girl in the black is a bit thin in the waist, but at least her spine isn't broken like in a Liefield.

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Not so much missing bodies as poor composition. It gives the effect that the lizard chick is missing half her body. Also, as a woman, aka the proud owner of a pair of breasts, the gal in the black isn't just thin, she'd break. She has no pelvis or musculature to support the weight of her chest, fake or real.

Greg loves his reference for faces, but he doesn't seem to quite get it with bodies. He's much better than Liefeld by leaps and bounds, but I feel like he's trying to be Adam Hughes or Travis Charest. I've seen his sketch work, and I'm glad that he's moved away from pron for ref, at least in part.

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I can only judge from Sojourn because that's all I've read that he was a part of, but I had the opposite feeling - that the ladies didn't look different ENOUGH. I could often find panels that used the same photo reference as a base... but I still find the overall effect beautiful enough to let that pass. Deadlines can be brutal.

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Deadlines can be brutal, sure, but I remember Sojourn. I honestly think that it was either him being lazy or that he just didn't know how to find more reference. Thing is, glancing at this piece over Sojourn, it looks like he's grown a lot as an artist. His faces are really nicely done and his hair is rendered as masses. PRAISE BE. I get so tired of the "I'm going to individually draw every strand of hair" mentality.

I redlined his piece to see what exactly was going on. Again, most of his problems come from poor composition. Then the balance issues with the blonde in the front. The upper half of her body is fine, and knowing a little, not a lot, but a little on how he works, I'm going to guess that he copied the waist up from one piece of reference, and the bottom half from another. There's no balance on those legs. His faces are really nice, and I'm glad to see more of the unibewb/shelf bra syndrome that REALLY DOES HAPPEN TO US FEMALE TYPES. Seeing spandex lift and seperate. It doesn't work like that. REALLY. The only other thing I see is that the snake in the background has no weight to it. Perhaps the gal holding it is super strong, but physics would still apply to the reptile there.

Anyways, summary: Greg's grown as an artist, but still has issues. And he's still far better than Liefeld, except when he swipes.

 

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I don't see any missing bodies - they're all eclipsed by each other. I can make out where they are based on what I see, and their balance/proportions seem fine. I admit the girl in the black is a bit thin in the waist, but at least her spine isn't broken like in a Liefield.

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Not so much missing bodies as poor composition. It gives the effect that the lizard chick is missing half her body. Also, as a woman, aka the proud owner of a pair of breasts, the gal in the black isn't just thin, she'd break. She has no pelvis or musculature to support the weight of her chest, fake or real.


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Even Power Girl (with the biggest superhero boobs ever) isnt a twig. She is generally is wide to support the giants, at least wider than alot of other superheroines with smaller(but still giant) boobs and twig thin.

Man... I really love how this thread went. How often can you talk about giant knockers and smaller (but still giant) knockers? LMAO

Need help making your own CoH comics or read other's comics at cohcomicindex.com

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Storylines:
Introductions, Obey,

 

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Man... I really love how this thread went. How often can you talk about giant knockers and smaller (but still giant) knockers? LMAO



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-this-

 

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I went fishing with Liefeld worms and only caught fish with no fins.


Dark Ether undeniable truth #1: Hot chicks are hot!! (clone or not)

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I'm adding a corollary to that. I'll call it Wright's Corollary, because a student named Wright first voiced it:

Cat Girls are Hot. Always.

 

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The difference is Greg Land can actually draw. He leans far too heavily on source material (I say, as I sit here making poses in Poser, ), but when he starts from scratch, Captain America doesn't end up with boobs and Picasso torso.

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not as bad but

look at the girl in black on the left

And I'm not talking about the face she has (Land uses that exact face all the time). but the fact she has a 7 inch waist and 4 inch thick legs that come in from odd angles. and the girl behind her is missing the rest of her body.
This is not uncommon of the people in the backgrounds of his comic pages, Not so much on his covers or promo work.

What bothers me more than that, and more than all his art swiping. is the fact his female characters rarely look the same from page to page. On Fantastic Four Sue would go from wavy to straight hair and back across three panels on the same page.

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Weird. The girl in white and Green, the girl with the python and the blond in front are all Ashley Scott.

 

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The difference is Greg Land can actually draw. He leans far too heavily on source material (I say, as I sit here making poses in Poser, ), but when he starts from scratch, Captain America doesn't end up with boobs and Picasso torso.

[/ QUOTE ]

not as bad but

look at the girl in black on the left

And I'm not talking about the face she has (Land uses that exact face all the time). but the fact she has a 7 inch waist and 4 inch thick legs that come in from odd angles. and the girl behind her is missing the rest of her body.
This is not uncommon of the people in the backgrounds of his comic pages, Not so much on his covers or promo work.

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The girl in black? Her legs are in the right place, based on what I can see. The composition is bad there, with two people half-covered by the same leg of the chick in the foreground, but it's not horrible.

Land is lazy, and that pisses me off. Liefeld is lazy AND mediocre in talent (at best). That pisses me off way more.

 

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I love Penny Arcade

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Ouch. Too bad it's unlikely he'll ever have that much self-awareness.

 

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On that note, can anyone tell me why Rob Liefield is so hated? Is it because of his inventive anatomy style? I'm not a big fan, but he does have a distinct style...

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Is "inventive anatomy style" a way of saying, "he can't draw bodies for [censored]"?

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Yes.

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If you do a yahoo search for Rob Liefeld, one of the links will be for a site called Progressive Boink, which gives a rather lengthy and mildly amusing tirade on why he doesn't like Liefeld. I'd link to it, but it's full of profanity and I don't want to be modsmacked.
TL

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I'm not even going to draw the other hand. No one will notice.

How many teeth are in a mouth? Like, a billion? I'll draw a billion.

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Wow.
I actually became fearful that I would suck a little more as an artist *by merely looking* at Liefelds "work".

Seriously.
I was working, taking a break and came here to haunt like I usually do and saw this thread, did a search for progressive boink and started reading.
I had a few laughs in the beginning, some toward the end.

Then this insidious gnawing darkness began creeping all over me as I looked at his work and began talking to myself; more and more and more:

"Do I do that?...no..no I dont..no way...
..wait..do I?...crap!..omg are my proportions right?... theyre right arent they?..
...honey, can you come here a minute please?.."


Please dont bring this guy's name up again..for the love of god.

Honestly - and this may sound really pretentious and jerky - but I really believe that stuff like this becoming popular in mainstream sales is *extremely* bad for the business and bad for the genre.
If stuff like this sells briskly it essentially says: "See? you dont have to have standards for art and writing, just the right connections and money."

It just sets the bar soooo low.


Sorry if thats dickish or "on the high-horse" sounding but I really believe in pushing yourself in your craft to be the best your capable of being, to challenge yourself always and improve.

Seeing stuff like that just makes me curl into a fetal position and cry in an anatomy book.

 

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Although I agree with most of the comments on Liefeld's work, I'd hate to have anyone look at mine so closely (and with such passion).

He may not deserve to be famous, but I'm not sure he deserves all the bashing either.

 

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I don't think the bashing would have been NEARLY as bad were it not for his attitude at the time and things he pulled.

 

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Perhaps bashing is too harsh a word. But the art theft is hard to overlook.

 

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Wow.
I actually became fearful that I would suck a little more as an artist *by merely looking* at Liefelds "work".

Seriously.
I was working, taking a break and came here to haunt like I usually do and saw this thread, did a search for progressive boink and started reading.
I had a few laughs in the beginning, some toward the end.

Then this insidious gnawing darkness began creeping all over me as I looked at his work and began talking to myself; more and more and more:

"Do I do that?...no..no I dont..no way...
..wait..do I?...crap!..omg are my proportions right?... theyre right arent they?..
...honey, can you come here a minute please?.."


Please dont bring this guy's name up again..for the love of god.

Honestly - and this may sound really pretentious and jerky - but I really believe that stuff like this becoming popular in mainstream sales is *extremely* bad for the business and bad for the genre.
If stuff like this sells briskly it essentially says: "See? you dont have to have standards for art and writing, just the right connections and money."

It just sets the bar soooo low.


Sorry if thats dickish or "on the high-horse" sounding but I really believe in pushing yourself in your craft to be the best your capable of being, to challenge yourself always and improve.

Seeing stuff like that just makes me curl into a fetal position and cry in an anatomy book.

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Scary! Very much on point with my thoughts as well. So much so I had to double check and make sure that I didn't actually write this in a late night art induced stupor..lol!

 

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Although I agree with most of the comments on Liefeld's work, I'd hate to have anyone look at mine so closely (and with such passion).

He may not deserve to be famous, but I'm not sure he deserves all the bashing either.

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Im with you juggs, to a degree.
He is more of a lighting rod for the principal of the thing though.

Correct me if im wrong but he did help start up image comics right?
So he essentially bought his way into the industry and therefore doesnt have to adhere to any standards; he can just invent his own.

While that sounds romantic in a "stickin it to the man" kind of way it also sends a bad message when you essentially leapfrog over the standards that are in place - for a reason - by buying your way into the business when theres a lull in the action and producing sub-mediocre material that inevitably sets the bar lower for the entire genre if it becomes a success.

Whats even more aggravating is that the guy could be amazing - if he just got out of the way of himself and actually attempted some kind of accuracy; some kind of referencing...SOMETHING!

I wouldnt be complaining at all if they guy at least "acted" like he cared about human anatomy and comic fundamentals.

What I see is someone who got told he needed to improve and didnt like it and decided to buy his way into the business instead.

I think he and image really hurt the business.
What comics needed when he came along was better writing and a new artist who *raised* the bar. Thats why adversity can be so great IMHO; it makes you try something new, it makes you evolve and adapt and overcome.

What he did was basically use short skirts and dollar bills to make the show intersting instead of the venue itself changing locations because the foundation desperately needed renovations.


Ok ill shut up now...sorry I get hot about stuff like this.