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We're going to have to disagree on this. Because there really is zero reason for overloading a page with gigantic images. Because even with a high speed connection your just needlessly wasting bandwidth on images that don't need to be print quality for viewing on a profile on a website.|
Originally Posted by Hero Prime
And that, ransim, is where I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Ten years ago, when the majority of Internet users were still using dial-up, it might have been a reasonable restriction, but in an age when over three quarters of the population (and probably 99% of the players of CoH) have broadband connections and downloading at 300-1000k a second, there are plenty of good reasons to have higher quality images on a web page.
But these are two wholly different discussions; the UHVU has a restriction in place not because its users might have trouble downloading an image, but because the server is getting along in years and tends to be cranky one moment and senile the next. Believe me, I understand this completely, which is why I'm not railing against it so much as just wishing it was different. As for the image quality, the particular image I'm working with has a lot of transparency. I've used every trick in my fairly significant bag to bring the file size down, and have just now managed to double-posturize the image to get it to 119kb - still 19 above the file size limit. I'll keep working on it. EDIT: I used that file resizer website, ransim, and it actually produced a larger image by 32k. *chuckles* However, I've uploaded a smaller (as in dimensions) version of the image, weighing in at only 97k. While it changes the look of the page in ways that make me a little sad, that should satisfy the issue and appease the server gods. |
Beyond that its something that someone else is paying for. They're the ones paying for the bandwidth and the server disk space to contain everyone's content.
Its not exactly a simple issue. Even if the server is new you should still try to take some consideration into the fact that you're sharing the space with others. And I will tell you, the new server has three times the disk space and way more processing power. The restrictions however will not change. Because otherwise people will abuse it and just fill up even more space.
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For what it's worth, I agree with Ransim. There's absolutely no reason for adding enormous images to your virtueverse page. If you need a gallery to show off your megapixels, create one on DA or imgur and link to it in your sig, here.
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Originally Posted by ransim
We're going to have to disagree on this. Because there really is zero reason for overloading a page with gigantic images. Because even with a high speed connection your just needlessly wasting bandwidth on images that don't need to be print quality for viewing on a profile on a website.
Beyond that its something that someone else is paying for. They're the ones paying for the bandwidth and the server disk space to contain everyone's content. Its not exactly a simple issue. Even if the server is new you should still try to take some consideration into the fact that you're sharing the space with others. And I will tell you, the new server has three times the disk space and way more processing power. The restrictions however will not change. Because otherwise people will abuse it and just fill up even more space. |
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Perhaps you didn't read the discussion, but it's really not about having gallery images with large pictures. The modern browser can view PNG images in-line, which means that designers have the opportunity to create multi-layered pages that include transparencies. Unfortunately, PNG images can be large (in file size, not dimensions), if they have a lot of transparency. That is what I was shooting for - a design element that utilized the power of the PNG.|
Originally Posted by Angelsilhouette
For what it's worth, I agree with Ransim. There's absolutely no reason for adding enormous images to your virtueverse page. If you need a gallery to show off your megapixels, create one on DA or imgur and link to it in your sig, here.
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Now, don't get me wrong, I understand the issues of server stability and bandwidth, and I hope I've made that clear in previous posts. I've offered to to host my own images, but understand why those settings won't be enabled. But when discussing design, to say there's no reason large files (once again, in file size, not dimensions) to be used is just silly. Now maybe there are good reasons they're not right for the UVHU, but those reasons have everything to do with the server and nothing to do with design.
Where do we go from here?
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Truthfully, from what I've heard in discussions I've had while doing this migration the desire to add off site linking is there. The key problem however is the lack of a large enough and active enough pool of people moderating content.|
Originally Posted by Hero Prime
Perhaps you didn't read the discussion, but it's really not about having gallery images with large pictures. The modern browser can view PNG images in-line, which means that designers have the opportunity to create multi-layered pages that include transparencies. Unfortunately, PNG images can be large (in file size, not dimensions), if they have a lot of transparency. That is what I was shooting for - a design element that utilized the power of the PNG.
Now, don't get me wrong, I understand the issues of server stability and bandwidth, and I hope I've made that clear in previous posts. I've offered to to host my own images, but understand why those settings won't be enabled. But when discussing design, to say there's no reason large files (once again, in file size, not dimensions) to be used is just silly. Now maybe there are good reasons they're not right for the UVHU, but those reasons have everything to do with the server and nothing to do with design. |
There have been a few instances of content going up that directly violated the web hosts TOS. And really without that constant large group of eyes over content its too hard for one person to patrol the pages to check off site images.
So if you have a solution to that problem, by all means share it, that would definitely put that option into the realm of more likely to happen.
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Originally Posted by Hero Prime
Perhaps you didn't read the discussion, but it's really not about having gallery images with large pictures. The modern browser can view PNG images in-line, which means that designers have the opportunity to create multi-layered pages that include transparencies. Unfortunately, PNG images can be large (in file size, not dimensions), if they have a lot of transparency. That is what I was shooting for - a design element that utilized the power of the PNG.
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From what I can see, the discussion is about adding larger than necessary files to the Virtueverse page. If you want to create intricate, multi-layer, animated, 3D, infra-red, ultra-violet, quantum images that are beyond the limit in VV, put them into DA or imgur instead of slamming the VV's bandwidth. (Just because it's free for us doesn't mean it's free for everyone. Unless I'm mistaken, Kadekawa is the one who's still footing the bill for the bandwidth.)
VV is more of a simple who's who, not a forum for artistic expression. That's why DA exists. This is not to say that you cannot add an artistic rendering of your character, but as we've been asked to keep the file size small, the images should probably be fairly simple.
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No, I don't have a solution. I'd be willing to help - I was a sysop at Virtueverse before, and I'd be happy to help out again, now that I'm back - but that's not a solution, just a little nudge. I didn't say I could fix things; frankly, I was only grousing about things that I knew weren't likely to be changed anyway, and have said so multiple times. I don't think there is a perfect solution, one that will appease both the user and admins, and none of this was intended to say otherwise. The solution is what it is, and I accept it, even if it's frustrating.|
Originally Posted by ransim
Truthfully, from what I've heard in discussions I've had while doing this migration the desire to add off site linking is there. The key problem however is the lack of a large enough and active enough pool of people moderating content.
There have been a few instances of content going up that directly violated the web hosts TOS. And really without that constant large group of eyes over content its too hard for one person to patrol the pages to check off site images. So if you have a solution to that problem, by all means share it, that would definitely put that option into the realm of more likely to happen. |
At least not a solution short of creating a CoH-themed image hosting site, which might be a possibility. Of course, then it inherits the same problem you have expressed has happened on UHVU.
Hm. Let me think on it.
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Originally Posted by Angelsilhouette
From what I can see, the discussion is about adding larger than necessary files to the Virtueverse page. If you want to create intricate, multi-layer, animated, 3D, infra-red, ultra-violet, quantum images that are beyond the limit in VV, put them into DA or imgur instead of slamming the VV's bandwidth. (Just because it's free for us doesn't mean it's free for everyone. Unless I'm mistaken, Kadekawa is the one who's still footing the bill for the bandwidth.)
VV is more of a simple who's who, not a forum for artistic expression. That's why DA exists. This is not to say that you cannot add an artistic rendering of your character, but as we've been asked to keep the file size small, the images should probably be fairly simple. |
Where do we go from here?
Was thinking of making Roses page int a series of journal entries using rp prompts her on the boards, anyone know of how I can do this or a format from someone else I could lift from? Thanks!
Just a quite update from the trenches regarding the server move.
The new server is ready to go, however we're having issues importing the data (there is too much text!). This week we're going to attempt to manually important the vast majority of the current content into the site. I'll keep everyone appraised about whether or not this process is actually going to work or not.
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There's simply too much text. Just take some words out.|
Originally Posted by ransim
Just a quite update from the trenches regarding the server move.
The new server is ready to go, however we're having issues importing the data (there is too much text!). This week we're going to attempt to manually important the vast majority of the current content into the site. I'll keep everyone appraised about whether or not this process is actually going to work or not. |
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Hah|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
There's simply too much text. Just take some words out.
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If it was that easy I would have. Unfortunately the site is in a bit of a conundrum.
Need to remove tons of old revision history.
Need the new server and more space to effect the upgrade that will allow for removing the old revision history.
Can't move content to new server for upgrade...
Its a vicious cycle.
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Hehe, I hope you got the reference.|
Originally Posted by ransim
Hah
If it was that easy I would have. Unfortunately the site is in a bit of a conundrum. Need to remove tons of old revision history. Need the new server and more space to effect the upgrade that will allow for removing the old revision history. Can't move content to new server for upgrade... Its a vicious cycle. |
And... Ouch!
I understand completely.
Hrm... The only thought I can offer, which I'm sure has come to the more knowledgeable minds than mine already working on this... If you can compress/shrink the existing backups somehow in order to create enough space.
However, I don't know that you can really compress text files much smaller than they are in there.
Hrm...
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
We've tried several methods of processing large database dumps. Unfortunately its just to much and fails before completing, the server actually runs out of memory. There are also a few issues related to the platform change, the new server is a windows server, the old server was linux based.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Hehe, I hope you got the reference.
And... Ouch! I understand completely. Hrm... The only thought I can offer, which I'm sure has come to the more knowledgeable minds than mine already working on this... If you can compress/shrink the existing backups somehow in order to create enough space. However, I don't know that you can really compress text files much smaller than they are in there. Hrm... |
Probably tomorrow I'm going to drop a fresh install of Mediawiki on the new server and work with the Admin to snag a decent size dump of content as XML and see if its possible to import those instead.
Its a slower process and has limitations (with images), and will probably require a few days where the site is locked down. But it may allow us to migrate without having to bring over all of the old revision history or forcing people to do it manually.
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Best of luck and thank you so much for doing this!!|
Originally Posted by ransim
We've tried several methods of processing large database dumps. Unfortunately its just to much and fails before completing, the server actually runs out of memory. There are also a few issues related to the platform change, the new server is a windows server, the old server was linux based.
Probably tomorrow I'm going to drop a fresh install of Mediawiki on the new server and work with the Admin to snag a decent size dump of content as XML and see if its possible to import those instead. Its a slower process and has limitations (with images), and will probably require a few days where the site is locked down. But it may allow us to migrate without having to bring over all of the old revision history or forcing people to do it manually. |
Keep us updated and let me know if there might be anything I can do to help or if users can do anything to make things a bit easier (Doesn't really sound like it to me, so far, but whatdoIknow!).
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Update on Server Migration:
Hey guys, we're just about ready to start the process of migrating the content over to the new server. We're asking everyone to pass this information on to your friends and supergroups that use VirtueVerse so everyone is aware!
Some details about the migration, the import process we'll be using is a bit more intensive and not as automated as we'd have preferred, because of that the site is going to be unavailable for a four day period. We're also going to ask that everyone verifies their content is all there afterwards, we'll be leaving the old site up for a short period to allow this.
There is also going to be some content that is not going to be imported, those details will be provided below.
Testers Needed! We're also looking for a few people willing to help us test some of the new wiki features on the new server. So if you are interested toss me a PM here and we'll get you set up.
Migration Details
When: October 8 - 11th
What: Migration of VirtueVerse to a new server (Unionverse will come a week later)
What content won't be coming over with the import:
- Page History
- User Accounts
- Any images over 150 KB will not be imported along with any unused images.
- Talk pages
What content should be imported:
- All wiki pages
- All main namespace content (characters, stories, etc)
- Categories
- Templates
- All images under 150 KB that are in use as of the lock down
New Features Preview: (list subject to change/updates)
Security:
- Added ReCaptcha to user registration. Captcha will not appear for registered users.
Content:
- Added support for easy article creation via a form.
- Added support for widgets. Widgets will allow users to easily pull in outside content including:
- Youtube Videos
- RSS Feeds
- Picasa gallery slideshows
- Flickr Search Slideshow
- Twitter feeds
Please note the Widgets are going to be on a trial basis, we'll be asking everyone to moderate themselves and others. If this gets abused we will remove it for everyone.
Just a friendly reminder guys. This is happening tomorrow. VirtueVerse will be read only and will be moving to its new home.
Hehe, I meant to reply to your previous post...
I'm both very happy and excited and a little worried/concerned and a bit sad that I need to fix my under 300mb but over 150mb images!
And the talk pages.
However, I don't want to come off as sounding negative... As I know that the benefits will outweigh the negatives!
I really hope that the embedding feature will not be abused and works out. That alone could be great.
I hope all goes well!
Will we be making new user accounts with the move? (That's what I assume, anyway, with the removal of user accounts and the new spiffy registration)
Thanks a ton to all those involved!
You don't even get half of half (maybe even less) the credit you deserve!
I'd think that the people's love for that work is shown in the rampant usage of the service.
Thank you!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
The old site will remain up for a time to allow people to copy their own talk pages and any content not brought over automatically. It will however remain read only.|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Hehe, I meant to reply to your previous post...
I'm both very happy and excited and a little worried/concerned and a bit sad that I need to fix my under 300mb but over 150mb images! And the talk pages. However, I don't want to come off as sounding negative... As I know that the benefits will outweigh the negatives! I really hope that the embedding feature will not be abused and works out. That alone could be great. I hope all goes well! Will we be making new user accounts with the move? (That's what I assume, anyway, with the removal of user accounts and the new spiffy registration) Thanks a ton to all those involved! You don't even get half of half (maybe even less) the credit you deserve! I'd think that the people's love for that work is shown in the rampant usage of the service. Thank you! |
As far as your large images go, we're going to be allowing offsite images. There will be some caveats to this and those haven't been decided and we will possibly also restrict where you can host those images from as well. I'll try to get more details on that up this weekend.
Everyone will be required to register again, no user accounts will be brought over automatically.
And thanks, its looking like its going to be mostly me this weekend doing the transfers, so I appreciate the luck.
Right, I figured we could copy over the talk pages if we wish.
And, yes, I wondered if the embedding feature could alleviate some of the picture/file hosting issues! I really only have one file that I don't think I could get under 150, but I could even be wrong about that.
Excellent!
And, as for you being busy with that all weekend...
I shall say a toast to you at the NYCC Meet and Greet!
Thanks again!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
I expect to see plenty of updates via twitter or here or something! I want to know the panel secrets!|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Right, I figured we could copy over the talk pages if we wish.
And, yes, I wondered if the embedding feature could alleviate some of the picture/file hosting issues! I really only have one file that I don't think I could get under 150, but I could even be wrong about that. Excellent! And, as for you being busy with that all weekend... I shall say a toast to you at the NYCC Meet and Greet! Thanks again! |
Still angry I'm going to be missing out on the NYCC Meet and Greet. But gotta save the money for PAX East.
VirtueVerse has now been locked down. The site will remain read only and information on how to access the site on the new server will be provided once the migration has been completed.
Just a quick update. The content has been moved successfully onto the new server. We're doing a bit of testing now and tuning on the server. We'll be providing everyone with the place to access it tomorrow. So keep an eye here for information.
It's the 12th. Where's my VirtueVerse fix?
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
I've request this thread be locked and replaced with the new one.
I've never had any issues with decreasing my file sizes to the necessary size, and I do it without major degradation.
If you use Adobe Photoshop I'd suggest checking out the save for web/devices function under the file menu.
http://tricks-collections.com/reduce...osing-quality/
There are some good tools otherwise here you can use to do it.
You can also try including a lower res version on the UHVU page and link it to say Deviant Art or photo bucket with a full rez larger version.
There is absolutely no reason to ever include a file inline in a HTML page that is over 100 KB unless its an art website like deviantart and you've chosen to do a full view.
Let me just give you guys a snap shot from what I know. The images folder for UHVU is 4 GB of data, the database itself is 4 GB of almost all page text. I'm actually lending a hand to Kadekawa and the Admin to try an migrate the data to a shiny new server. Problem is its too much data, especially in the database, so its not playing nice with the migration tools.
So that is why the file restrictions are in place, the site is too popular for its own good.
But these are two wholly different discussions; the UHVU has a restriction in place not because its users might have trouble downloading an image, but because the server is getting along in years and tends to be cranky one moment and senile the next. Believe me, I understand this completely, which is why I'm not railing against it so much as just wishing it was different.
As for the image quality, the particular image I'm working with has a lot of transparency. I've used every trick in my fairly significant bag to bring the file size down, and have just now managed to double-posturize the image to get it to 119kb - still 19 above the file size limit. I'll keep working on it.
EDIT: I used that file resizer website, ransim, and it actually produced a larger image by 32k. *chuckles* However, I've uploaded a smaller (as in dimensions) version of the image, weighing in at only 97k. While it changes the look of the page in ways that make me a little sad, that should satisfy the issue and appease the server gods.