I always like to have at least one more hapless victim around (preferrably more than that) for more blue and now more green, but you probably have better end managment than I do.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Can /ea survive without any resistance? If so....I'd suggest getting rid of the passives and adding a quickness power similar to /sr and /ela..and (sorry if this was suggested already) a defence power that absorbs a portion of the damage you might take and transfer that to damage output(Secondary set bu like /fa)
get rid of CP and give it PB 
THAT would be sweet.
I know the EA - devotees have talked about that in the past, There are a couple of concerns with it...
First off a few pros: it's definitely in keeping with the game's definition of what energy "is", it would provide a defensive "buildup" and it would potentially provide a massive defence boost to overload, probably enough to deal with quartz, which I think is about +100% thb, and probably enough to mess with rularuu... not sure about that. The heal in energy drain would presumably become much more effective, and of course there'd be that significant boost to primary powers...
Thing is, there are a lot of cons.
First off, there are actually players who like CP. In my experience most of them are stalkers, but even so, there are going to be players out there who built their characters as /EA because they didn't want to take fitness, and CP is an important part of that. This isn't to say that no set can change what it fundimentally provides, but I think it's a given that it should only do so if all other reasonable alternatives are exhausted, something that's pretty clearly not the case here.
There's also the massive disparity in how such a power modifies different primaries. Powers like fire, which probably need the most help from EA get nothing. Seismic smash and fault become more powerful than they already are, and that's saying something.
There's also the concern about strength. Is it actually too much? Well this one's a bit hard to know, since presumably the different defence toggles and clicks in EA can be flagged as not modified by PB as appropriate. It should be possible to come up with something tunable, but even so, does EA need much at all? if only a few powers are modified, then you're really just left with a primary boost, and the problem of disparity with primary set. Whatever it is, if anything, that EA needs it's probably not best if it's a rather random instrument like PB which most strengthens the builds which are already the strongest.
Perhaps before the IO change, and the heal buff to drain, this would have been a place to start, but I don't really see that as the case now.
Honestly, I don't think EA needs MUCH now. A little tweek to add more regeneration or HP early would be damn nice, and I still think that heal needs to be front weighted, or scale with foe rank, but that would probably do it. I'd trade that for psi defence instead of course, but somehow I don't see us getting that now.
There've been a lot of great suggestions for EA over the past 3 years that are probably mostly irrelevant now. Lets just hope that the best of them get incorporated down the road for new powersets. (like RTTC!) Not because EA is a lost cause, but because it's close enough now that any major cool new changes are likely to result in another willpower.
And we can't have that.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
So like... when are we going to have a 'fix electric armor summarized' thread?
Not until after they fix energy assault probably.
And Grav
MA? I could go either way on that.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
[ QUOTE ]
Not until after they fix energy assault probably.
And Grav
MA? I could go either way on that.
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What about Shields?
Also: Skipping Fitness? Are you high? Health is practically necessary.
For EVERY secondary.
Except Regen. Or Willpower.
I'm not waiting 3 minutes to get to full health. After every single mob.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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I think that they should up the energy defense in Kinetic Shield so that, when slotted, an EA brute is basically softcapped to energy defense. It fits thematically.
If that happened, then the energy resistance in Energy Protection would become largely superfluous (kinda already is). I think in that case Energy Protection could be replaced by Power Boost. Probably not on a blaster's timer, but still.
Perhaps the negative energy and toxic res could then be shunted to Dampening field, though I doubt many people would really miss them regardless.
That way everyone who enjoys the protection from energy protection will still get it, but EA would still be helped significantly by replacing a power.
One additional argument for buffing psi def in EA, rather than adding a +hp power or adding more HP.
Powerset Proliferation.
Presumably there will, at some point, be a blue side version of EA.
Yes, there's the double CP issue to deal with, and yes hopefully the modification made there can be extended usefully to the red side version of the set without offending anyone... but quite apart from CP, there's a good argument for making whatever additional minor help EA gets the kind of help that works against psi.
Part of the reason that EA is as problematic as it is has to do with its weakness to psi, and red side, there's no shortage of psi, in fact there can be a heck of a lot of it. This is much less of a problem blue side where you could probably play most of the game without seeing any, just by accident.
So: buff that heal, or add lots of HP, and you have a set that could end up being pretty darned monstrous on a scrapper. Add psi def? small buff blue side where it won't break things, big buff red side where it's needed.
Heck you could replace CP with a passive that gave some modest global endredux, some end drain resistance or -recovery debuff resistance and some psi def... that'd do it.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
[ QUOTE ]
Heck you could replace CP with a passive that gave some modest global endredux, some end drain resistance or -recovery debuff resistance and some psi def... that'd do it.
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This intrigues me...I like it.
At this point I can't say I have read too much of the recent stuff on this thread. But I am wondering what the problem is with EA these days. I just got back from Iraq and spec'd and refitted my EM/EA brute and I am quite liking him. They seem to have made Energy Drain the central power in the set now, making it a cornerstone power kind of like RttC for WP or invincibility for invuln. I tooled around with him and the heal was barely noticeable (but I slotted for endurance, not healing). I had heard there was a taunt in energy drain now, but I still had trouble getting fury on large teams especially with masterminds. It did not seem as hard as before, though. In any event, I am still glad to have taken taunt from my primary and slotted it well. Overall, I think they made the EA set a little more like the rest of the sets, making it a bit tougher and a bit better able to keep aggro, but they did not amp it up so much that it loses its distinctiveness. part of EA's coolnes was always to be able to fight some foes while others stood by clueless. This can still be done. And the set is still the stalker of brutes. But just a little tougher and more able to play the role of brute on large teams. I actually like the changes. And yes, I was thankful to have conserve power, which I used regularly, being a staminaless build.
So what's so wrong with the set now?
On the whole it's not bad, but my feeling is that it's just not adequately compensated for it's shortfall in performance when compared to WP or to SR, the other sets without offensive tools. I think invul is in much the same boat.
At least EA has it's niche now, something it didn't really have before.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
[ QUOTE ]
So what's so wrong with the set now?
[/ QUOTE ]
As you mentioned, the changes are some small tweaks that help in large teams, and a little toxic resistance that I'm not sure a lot of people care. For those people who think that EA is seriously broken in the past, I don't think the improvements can change their mind. For those who were ok with EA, I believe the small tweaks improve their quality of life.
I don't think there is really something wrong with the powerset. For those people who don't like the set, they just don't like the overall design, and nothing can fix it unless the powerset is re-designed. Personally, I just wish that some thematic things can be incorporated into powerset. For example higher energy def/res, -end/recovery res, higher defense debuff res. These don't have much to do with survival, so it's not a big deal. They are things that I think EA should have and the dev probably needs to give us a reason why EA lacks these things.
For the future, it would be interesting to know how EA will be proliferated to other ATs. While some of the suggestions in this thread don't seem to be realistic, for example merging passives and removing conserve power, the ideas are ok for proliferation.
Yeah well honestly I was OK with the set before. I quite liked it. So I am perfectly happy with the changes. I personally LOVE conserve power, and am so glad it survived the onslaught. I am in total agreement with you about the thematic thing.
I do hope that the set is portable roughly as is. I would hate for scrappers and tankers to get a different version that is largely perceived as better by the player community. Since tankers have such a different role and different expectations, I guess I could live with an altered EA for them. But scrapper EA should be virtually identical to brute EA, if you ask me. But if brutes are the only AT with conserve power, that would really hack me off.
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Presumably there will, at some point, be a blue side version of EA.
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I hope not unless we get Ice/Ice stalkers and brutes (They would have to adjust the -recharge for brute so they can maintain fury) at the same time.
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
I don't have a problem with Ice brutes, I think it'd be great for a wide range of concepts, but I also don't think it's necessary to base proliferation on any kind of "fair trade" of powersets. To my mind, if a powerset, or variant thereof makes sense from a conceptual and game mechanics point of view, it should be proliferated, with testing time being the notable constraint. In the case of /EA, there's also the CP issue, in the case of ice, it'll be that -recharge.
One of the concerns raised with /ice for brutes is that it would nearly eliminate the value of /EA. To some extent that's probably still a valid argument, but it's less valid now than it used to be.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
I loved my SS/EA brute so much I made a Ice/SS Tanker. I see how the sets are similar to a point but infact they are very different and they require 2 different play styles. I recently just make a DM/EA stalker just for the hell of it. 
Proton Sentry Peacebringer:lvl 50+++ - Human Build / Triform Build
Quasar Sentry Warshade:lvl 50+- Human Build / Triform Build
Red Katipo Arachnos Soldier:lvl 50+++ - Crab Build / Bane Build
Black Katipo Arachnos Widowlvl 50+++ - Fortunata Build / Night Widow Build
[ QUOTE ]
One of the concerns raised with /ice for brutes is that it would nearly eliminate the value of /EA. To some extent that's probably still a valid argument, but it's less valid now than it used to be.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hell there would never be a reason to make a /EA brute ever again if brutes got ice armor.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One of the concerns raised with /ice for brutes is that it would nearly eliminate the value of /EA. To some extent that's probably still a valid argument, but it's less valid now than it used to be.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hell there would never be a reason to make a /EA brute ever again if brutes got ice armor.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hasn't /SR done this already. I have an EA brute, but if SR had been out when I was making him I probably would have gone that route.
In the past? possibly... maybe even probabably.
Now? I don't think so. On balance, I still think SR is the stronger of the two sets, with it's monsterous, ungodly defence resistance, it's superiour passive resists and it's total protection, but EA isn't devoid of relative strengths.
Many arguments are made about how easy SR is to softcap relative to EA, but that's not really the whole picture. EA can get very strong, or even softcap, rather early. Earlier, in general, than most SR builds will. EA has, of course much more endurance to play with. When at the cap, EA's minimal heal becomes significant.
Ice? sure it's plenty strong, but remember, with brute numbers it's not going to be easy to cap either, and certainly not early.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Actually even with tanker numbers wasn't easy or early to cap. It wasn't the power potentials themselves that were the problem, it was the lack of slots before about level 35.
I wasn't able to softcap Frostweaver with any regularity until about level 40 (admittedly this was well prior to IO sets) even with the tanker numbers. of course, it was easy enough with a team (where tankers always have excelled).
Honestly, I remember the 'early grind' for frostweaver quite well, and I also remember the early grind for Darkness bound... and I would still choose /ea over ice for brutes for levelling purposes. Especially if ice were 'adapted' for brutes by losing CE's huge slow component, and some of it's damage reduction.
I would certainly PLAY an ice brute, but it would be a labor of love, not because I felt ice were in any way superior to other brute sets.
I think discussions about softcapping an ice brute will not be comparisons with /EA. EA will be weaker when softcapped, but very much easier TO softcap, which gives you room for other things, and for many players, this is actually going to matter most.
For those who do have vast budgets, the comparison might best be made with softcapped WP. Ice gives you a damage aura, and superior aggro control, in so much as brutes will care. Both have some nice toys, but where /WP will be nerely impossible to softcap vs. s/l (only corner case builds will do this) ice will be very difficult to softcap against fire/cold. Where Ice must rely on it's HP against psi damage, WP gets to mostly ignore it. Where WP gets it's endurance passively, Ice must be more active, Where WP gets little from global recharge, /Ice gets more defence, healing and HP. etc. etc.
I don't think top end /ice builds will be necessarily better than top end WP builds are for brutes, but I think they'll be close, and that they'll be most easily compared to each other. Brute /WP is a very high standard to be in the company of.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Sorry if this has been mentioned already 
If the dev's aren't finished with /ea (going by this still being a "sticky" thread) I think /ea would be further ahead at being a better secondary if the defence was changed to positional rather then typed. After playing my ss/ea and elec/sd..imho positional out performs typed defence.
Doesn't matter how you want to mix it up as to what power gets what defence (melee/ranged/AoE) but all should have a resistance to energy.
As for a taunt aura..maybe something similar to Disruption Field from Sonic Resonance would fit this set.
I believe the dev is probably done with EA for brutes. Nobody bother to unsticky the thread. I guess when we move to the new forum, the thread will be gone.
No, I never moved from the base of the pylon.
My defenses are passed the cap to smash/lthl/nrg, right at 43.8% to fire/cold with 40% to neg nrg
50% global recharge
1900 HP(only +hp accolade I have is High Pain)
Decent addtional recovery bonuses.
I didnt do the build on Mids so I cant post a data chunk. I did it all in my head and with the use of the combat attribute window. The most expensive part was the LoTG procs but I had about 20 or so sitting around so it didnt cost me anything for that part.
I will get around to putting the build on Mids one day