The Complete Amazon: Themed WP/SS Tanker Guide I11

British Battler · 05-02-2008 04:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WP gets recovery at lvl 12 so to put off toggles until much later isn't very smart for a tank... if you wanna play as a scrapper roll one

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see: a sweeping generalization? Check. Stating the obvious? Check. A 5-month tenderfoot instructing a 48-month veteran to re-roll as another class? Check.

Yup, all there. Great makings of a lousy post. You do get a +1 post count though. I can't wait for your #5, should be chock full of great stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please note.....this is not an attack on your statement, but just a generalisation on Elitism. I for one, here, look like a "3 month tenderfoot", but I have being playing this game for 30 months on the EU servers. Time served does not mean "Good" at the game. In both Server communities I have played with total idiot Veterans and Excellent new players. Time served gives no indication of how good a person is at the game

Have fun

Chill_Out · 05-02-2008 11:58 AM

Agree, overall.

Specifically, however, the poster I responded to was a troll. Thus, it was best to remind him of his place under the bridge.

British Battler · 05-03-2008 07:04 AM

Some one with 4 posts a troll???

Oh well nevermind

Chill_Out · 05-03-2008 09:12 AM

Has nothing to do with post count, but what's in the post. FYI.

British Battler · 05-03-2008 11:58 AM

So someone talking sense...ie taking QR at 12, and the tank having 3 toggles by then possibly, MoB, IW + RttC, and advising someone that it might be a good idea to have QR asap constitutes trolling...well I never, never realised that myself.

Sounded like sense to me, then again i must have trolled that to realise it

Chill_Out · 05-03-2008 05:09 PM

I realize the value of posting further is entirely without merit, based on the current audience. Have a good one.

British Battler · 05-04-2008 06:49 AM

Ah....I think you've been rumbled as someone who seems to dislike other peoples views and has been found out In addition the audience is not lacking it's the thinly veiled arguments that are usually found out first, and sensless personal attacks on people that seem to tip the balance.

another +1 Post Count with a worthless reply for both of us coming up I feel.

ossangar · 05-04-2008 07:52 AM

This was a Very nice guide on a wonder woman themed build, and a FANTASTIC read Herculea. It's too bad it has degenerated into arguments.

erall · 05-04-2008 07:57 AM

Personally, I'm glad to see someone thinking about actually theming their character rather than just saying 'gonna roll an XYZ today'.

Will folks always argue about builds? Yes.
Is this guide a critical read in any way? No.
Is it a GOOD read? Yes.

Is the flame war unneccesary and embarassing? Hell yah.

Things to remember:
-Common sense ain't;
-Overkill is the only kill;
-If someone asks if you're a god, run away.

Omega_Man · 05-04-2008 03:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Jayboh, waiting so long for MoB? PLed much?. Seriously every person who plays a tank knows to take the first shield.

[/ QUOTE ]

With 2 lvl 50 tankers (1 invuln and 1 WP), I say Pshaw, you can put off the first shield until 20-22 easily. For some sets you can go later.

Mei_Zhong · 05-05-2008 01:06 AM

I like how the Op has developed a useful teamate with a cool theme.

I also like how the attackers are essentially arguing for building a character who's only real use is Policeband Farming, not like per se, find it hilarious would be more accurate.

xoxman · 05-08-2008 04:16 PM

Well, im now making a BS/WP scrapper who was found on shores of amazons home as a baby and was raised by them. he was hated for being a man. then he took a broadsword, went to the local arena, and started beating the crud out of anything that messed with him.

The_Uris · 05-12-2008 02:57 PM

Great Guide.... Going to try one out. I like the background on your toon's growth....

Heraclea · 05-13-2008 06:03 PM

A couple points:

I think the hit point bonus in HPT is easily enough to get you to at least level 12 before you need any more toggles. In fact, for other secondaries, like /Stone Melee, my advice is to take your pool powers in the traditional order for other tanker primaries, aiming for Stamina at 20 (in addition to QR at 12). Postpone the unnecessary toggles like HS and MoB until after Stamina. You'll enjoy your character a lot more this way. Also, unlike resistance or defense toggles, getting Health early plays to what you're best at, adding to QR and RttC.

I do not build pure meatshields. My opinion is, they aren't very much fun to play; more importantly, Willpower doesn't work very well as a pure meatshield primary. I think of it as the second offensive set, after Fire.

Willpower's taunt aura is weaker than the ones in other primaries. If you want to function as a traditional tanker, you need to work around that. There are a number of ways to do it. In my opinion, the fun way is to have a strong attack chain. Gauntlet is your friend. A full tilt attack chain is Willpower's best bet for aggro holding.

There is more damage mitigation in Air Superiority than there is in much of the primary. Air Superiority takes a single mob out of its game for several seconds, and does it consistently. I think it's a no-brainer, especially for a melee set that doesn't use a drawn weapon animation.

And I wouldn't take Taunt until my defenses were to a level that you know you can survive taunting. Before you get to SO levels, you need some nuance to how much aggro you want to take, especially since big alphas are Willpower's weakness. If you want to be a taunt-bot and pure meatshield, Willpower is simply not the best primary to choose. Its strengths lie elsewhere.

Tough and Weave are also included to assist Willpower in taking those big alphas.

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

Centinull · 05-13-2008 07:11 PM

I agree with Heraclea on all points.

I took the toggles early on, but got in the habit of not even turning them on, unless things started going south. There are plenty of fights you just don't need status protection and the resistances aren't that high pre-SO's that they make a huge difference.

Centinull

daves · 05-29-2008 05:55 AM

good guide - nice theme and sound advice - some of the stuff regarding early power choices I will be trying out with my next WP.

FivexFive · 06-02-2008 02:41 PM

I've build a themed WP/SS tanker around a boxing theme, which means only having boxing related attacks, which is the only reason I've ever taken flurry, but it is a theme...

I only have him at 24 now, but I think that it is worth taking MoB, HS and Taunt by these lower levels. By 24, I have HPT, Fast Healing and RTTC for regen, MoB, HPT and Tough for Resistance, and CJ and HS for defense. It is obviously very toggle heavy, and with suboptimal slotting for End Red until I get stamina later, but he has been quite health even at low levels. I found that at 18 I could still jump in large mobs and survive well. I don't have a lot of attacks, and I Often miss with them, so Punch-voking is not awesome, and the RTTC taunt aura is weak, so I also took Taunt and use it alot on teams. I survive relatively well in +2-+4 mobs, so the Taunt rarely gets me killed. I'm not claiming that this is the only way to build it (I have Flurry...) but it is possible to make use of many of the defensive and resistance sets earlier, even on a regen heavy AT. The reason is overlap - WP is not Full Regen, nor Full Def, nor Full Res - but every hole seems to get plugged and covered by One of those. Every little bit of Def/Res allows RTTC to get me back to Green...

gWrath · 07-18-2008 03:27 PM

Good guide and a fun read. It'll be useful for my WP/Ice.

I am planning on picking 3 APPs, so that'll leave me with a dilemma: pick either Fitness (Swift/Health/Stamina) or Fighting (Boxing/Tough/Weave).

I know you're into never having to run out of end so I guess you'd pick Fitness. But which one, in your experience, would provide the most survivability for WP?

BladeThorn · 07-21-2008 07:22 PM

Everytime I hear Amazon I think of that one Futurama episode with the planet full of giant man hating amazons.

Heraclea · 07-21-2008 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I know you're into never having to run out of end so I guess you'd pick Fitness. But which one, in your experience, would provide the most survivability for WP?

[/ QUOTE ]

On pure survivability grounds, Tough and Weave. On the other hand, without Fitness you'd be hard pressed to keep them up.

It's probably closer than you think. Ice adds a lot of secondary mitigation, the problem is having enough endurance to keep using it. You will still have Strength of Will if things start looking bad. And Health is a survival power that plays to your strengths. This versus under 15% more resistance and under 10% defense.

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

MadHobbit · 11-02-2008 11:07 AM

I have been folloing the guide and it works great now up to lvl 42, have a re-build for when I can use hamis,any suggestions?

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.4006
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Small Puppies: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance Heal-I:40(A), Heal-I:40(3), Heal-I:40(5), ResDam-I:40(33), Aegis-ResDam:40(34), Aegis-Psi/Status:40(34)
Level 1: Jab HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(5), HO:Nucle(7), EndRdx-I:40(21), RechRdx-I:40(21)
Level 2: Fast Healing Heal-I:40(A), Heal-I:40(3), Heal-I:40(7)
Level 4: Haymaker HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(15), HO:Nucle(17), EndRdx-I:40(17), RechRdx-I:40(23)
Level 6: Indomitable Will DefBuff-I:40(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:39(42), LkGmblr-Def:40(48), DefBuff-I:40(50)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge HO:Golgi(A), HO:Golgi(9), HO:Golgi(9)
Level 10: Hasten RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(11), RechRdx-I:40(11)
Level 12: Quick Recovery EndMod-I:40(A), EndMod-I:40(13), P'Shift-End%:39(13), P'Shift-EndMod:39(15)
Level 14: Super Speed Run-I:40(A)
Level 16: Air Superiority HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(46), HO:Nucle(46), EndRdx-I:40(48), RechRdx-I:40(48)
Level 18: Heightened Senses EndRdx-I:40(A), DefBuff-I:40(19), DefBuff-I:40(19), LkGmblr-Def:40(40), LkGmblr-Rchg+:40(42)
Level 20: Mind Over Body EndRdx-I:40(A), ResDam-I:40(23), ResDam-I:40(25), ResDam-I:40(25)
Level 22: Knockout Blow HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(27), HO:Nucle(27), EndRdx-I:40(37), RechRdx-I:40(40)
Level 24: Taunt Taunt-I:40(A)
Level 26: Swift Run-I:40(A)
Level 28: Rage RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(29), RechRdx-I:40(29), ToHit-I:40(31), ToHit-I:40(31)
Level 30: Health Heal-I:40(A), Heal-I:40(31), Numna-Heal:39(34), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:39(37), Mrcl-Rcvry+:39(37)
Level 32: Strength of Will ResDam-I:40(A), ResDam-I:40(33), ResDam-I:40(33)
Level 35: Stamina EndMod-I:40(A), EndMod-I:40(36), P'Shift-End%:39(36), P'Shift-EndMod:39(36)
Level 38: Foot Stomp HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(39), HO:Nucle(39), EndRdx-I:40(39), RechRdx-I:40(40)
Level 41: Boxing HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(42), HO:Nucle(43), EndRdx-I:40(43), RechRdx-I:40(43)
Level 44: Tough EndRdx-I:40(A), ResDam-I:40(45), EndRdx-I:40(45), ResDam-I:40(45), ResDam-I:40(46)
Level 47: Fly Flight-I:40(A)
Level 49: Char HO:Endo(A), HO:Endo(50), HO:Endo(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
15% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
10% FlySpeed
10% JumpHeight
10% JumpSpeed
32% (2.5 HP/sec) Regeneration
3% Resistance(Psionic)
15% RunSpeed

------------
Set Bonuses:
Aegis
(High Pain Tolerance)
5% RunSpeed
3% Resistance(Psionic)

Luck of the Gambler
(Indomitable Will)
10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Performance Shifter
(Quick Recovery)
5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed

Luck of the Gambler
(Heightened Senses)
10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Numina's Convalescence
(Health)
12% (0.94 HP/sec) Regeneration

Performance Shifter
(Stamina)
5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed

Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom

CaptainAmazing · 11-05-2008 07:57 PM

Nice guide, although it's too bad you pulled the haters in :<

Vel_Overload · 11-09-2008 01:29 AM

men.. dont have.. stamina..
hey!
I do too have stamina! >

Whining about everything since 2006.

Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484

Heraclea · 11-10-2008 08:33 AM

Hami-O's are fairly self-explanatory. My chief concern would be that a build focused so much on recharge is going to need recovery bonuses also. Look into Stupefies for Jab and Boxing, and Impervium Armor for damage resistance powers.

Edit: For those who are curious about why the guide contains Latin rather than Greek, I wrote an introduction to Heraclea's background in the roleplaying section, which can be read at New Colchis: an introduction. This is on the roleplaying board, and may be purged.

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

Heraclea · 06-16-2009 08:59 PM

Here is a revised build order for this guide. Super Strength needs a bit of changing from my recommended approach to Willpower tankers, in that KO Blow becomes available at level 20 and you want to take it as soon as it is available. This means that Stamina has to be postponed.

Really, except for Rage (28), Strength of Will (32), and Foot Stomp (38), the power selection order for everything after level 20 is a matter of taste. I might still prefer to get Stamina at 22, even if that meant putting off Mind over Body to 24. Generally, the sooner you get both QR and Stamina working for you, the more you will enjoy your character. You do start to face some heavy hitting smashing and lethal mobs, including Freakshow and Warriors, regularly in the 20something levels. Still, the toggles only begin to repay their endurance cost when they can be slotted with SO enhancements or better. So your mileage may vary.

I also pushed Fly forward, Super Speed back. Fly, whatever its flaws, at least goes anywhere. Hasten and Super Speed are the most optional powers of the build. They can easily be replaced by ancillary powers, other pools you like better, or Hurl, Resurgence, or even Hand Clap.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Complete Amazon V. II: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(7), Heal-I(15), ResDam-I(40), ResDam-I(43), ResDam-I(43)
Level 1: Jab -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(3), Dmg-I(34), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(36), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 2: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(3), Heal-I(7)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(5), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(33), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(43), DefBuff-I(46), DefBuff-I(46)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- EndRdx-I(A), Heal-I(9), Heal-I(9), Heal-I(11), Taunt-I(15), Taunt-I(50)
Level 10: Air Superiority -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(11), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(34), Dmg-I(37), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(13), EndMod-I(13)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 16: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(19), Heal-I(19)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(21), Dmg-I(21), Dmg-I(23), Dmg-I(33), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 22: Mind Over Body -- EndRdx-I(A), ResDam-I(23), ResDam-I(27), ResDam-I(31)
Level 24: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(25), EndMod-I(25)
Level 26: Taunt -- Taunt-I(A), Taunt-I(27)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(29), ToHit-I(50), ToHit-I(50)
Level 30: Heightened Senses -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(31), DefBuff-I(36)
Level 32: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(48)
Level 35: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(39), Dmg-I(39), Dmg-I(39), Dmg-I(40), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 41: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(42), ResDam-I(42), ResDam-I(42), ResDam-I(46)
Level 44: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(45), DefBuff-I(45), DefBuff-I(45)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison