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I don't like PvP. I also think badge hunting is pretty senseless. What does that make me? 
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Lost. The role-playing forum is a few down from here.
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Ah, so there are in fact only three categories into which all CoX gamers fall into. Good to know.
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4
Other
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One thing I keep reading is that 'PvPers are not loyal' and 'they end up going to other games.' This may be true however it is mainly due to the lack of support from the devs, I mean they haven't even fixed what we play this game for since i4? What if you couldn't get any badges since i4, would you still play?
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Well...the Devs gave the PvPers the Arena and the ability to PvP...outside of new powersets and accolades to add spice to the mix, what else do you need really? You have your tools. They've added zones as well to draw neophytes and Accolades to help performance.
Honestly, I started with issue 5 and if there hadn't been new badges added I'd still be here...because there has been other content added. New zones, new missions, new contacts, villainside...it's still enough to keep me happy and busy for a long time.
But...that's me...I don't ask for much outside for what I'm given, I tend to make my own fun...part of being an only child I'd imagine.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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I don't like PvP. I also think badge hunting is pretty senseless. What does that make me?
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Lost. The role-playing forum is a few down from here.
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Ah, so there are in fact only three categories into which all CoX gamers fall into. Good to know.
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If I really must be labelled, I guess I'm the P in PvE.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
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Well done, but be wary of anything from mmogchart. And that last line is classic. No matter what we think of WoW, Blizzard did in fact save MMOs from going the way of the dodo bird, or at least made it look MUCH better for a game publisher to try and develop an MMO.
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Agreed, Sir Bruce's numbers have come under scrutiny and some are more reliable than others (which he freely admits to). Having said that, the Blizzard and NCSoft numbers are going to be very high quality since both companies actually release that information as part of their SEC filings each quarter. Some of the other games are more secretive, and his numbers are less definitive.
His methods, the raw data (in Excel), and the reliability he thinks his data has on each game is available here:
Analysis
I am very aware of how far gone the MMO market was until WoW, despite thinking the game is trash I am appreciative of the fact that it exists.
One side note, its important to note that none of my numbers include Guild Wars, which isn't an MMO. However, I think its impact on MMO players is very real and there is no doubt that a significant portion of the player base bought the game for the PvP. If it were included in the mix it would be bigger than L2 with 2 million in sales.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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Lost. The role-playing forum is a few down from here.
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Ah, so there are in fact only three categories into which all CoX gamers fall into. Good to know.
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4
Other
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Okay, I don't do this a lot, but that officially made me LOL.
It was fun.
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One thing I keep reading is that 'PvPers are not loyal' and 'they end up going to other games.' This may be true however it is mainly due to the lack of support from the devs, I mean they haven't even fixed what we play this game for since i4? What if you couldn't get any badges since i4, would you still play?
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Well...the Devs gave the PvPers the Arena and the ability to PvP...outside of new powersets and accolades to add spice to the mix, what else do you need really? You have your tools. They've added zones as well to draw neophytes and Accolades to help performance.
Honestly, I started with issue 5 and if there hadn't been new badges added I'd still be here...because there has been other content added. New zones, new missions, new contacts, villainside...it's still enough to keep me happy and busy for a long time.
But...that's me...I don't ask for much outside for what I'm given, I tend to make my own fun...part of being an only child I'd imagine.
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I appreciate them giving us PvP, but it working as it should would be swell
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Lost. The role-playing forum is a few down from here.
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Ah, so there are in fact only three categories into which all CoX gamers fall into. Good to know.
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4
Other
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Okay, I don't do this a lot, but that officially made me LOL.
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I'm simply looking for the existing rules to actually be enforced... which they aren't at this time, as you yourself have pointed out in the past.
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I am all for vigorous enforcement of the in game rules.
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Word. Welcome back Thor. =)
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Oh Mieux I concur with your point but man am I chomping at the bit for the auctions...it's a whole mini-game where I can analzye, project, bid, overbid, underbid, coax and barter and lose myself for hours...and it lets me get some influence for my alts as an aside.
I have a buddy in Toronto...he's a day trader. Sometimes he gets a tip and can clear an extra $50,000 CDN in an afternoon. Sometimes he loses that $50,000 CDN.
But the most fun he has? When he gets that deal before one of his friends does; when he can zoom in on a hot item and profit.
I'm not "EvilGeko" (or is it Gordon Gekko 
)esque on the topic...but the Auction house will grab me and hold me long after my last pvp battle will have done so.
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I have to agree, I was a Bria billionare in SWG and played the AH in WOW. I think inventions will be a huge positive to teh game for the simpliest of reasons.
Many people see it as a negative because of purple fever from games such as WOW. However, Inventions are a bind on equip items, not bind on pick up. So you don't have to do long boring things that you don't want to.
I'm actually hoping the new system revitalizes the PVE players. It gives them something to do and a vital purpose if it is done right.
BTW, though this has nothing to do with this poster, I hope everyone that is trying to accuse me of wanting to remove PVE from the game will actually read my responses on pages 10 and 17.
I don't think that the PVE game needs to be removed, I was trying to point out that PVE only MMORPGs don't do well. COX is a pvp optional game. It should remain so. It shouldn't ignore the rest of it's players. Though it shouldn't ignore the pvp community either.
I think the new auctions and inventions are a good way of revitalizing the PVE community. I think the new Hamis should do the same.
I'm hoping the next few publishes continue to improve things for everyone. =)
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I do have to ask, and please don't take it like I'm flaming you, but if someone says they're just there for badges.. why can't you leave them alone? It's a courtesy thing, and I understand resenting someone who goes about it rudely, but I can't imagine they all do.
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I could ask the same thing in reverse. If you're coming into a PvP zone, and there are PvPers there, why can't you give them what they want? A good fight. At least attempt it. Hell, you might find it entertaining. They are participating in the zone the way it was intended by attempting to kill you as much as you are by grabbing badges.
There are also many other reasons to attack the self declared "not here for PvPers". Depending on the zone, the actions of non-combatants may have a direct affect on the people who *are* PvPing. Completing zone missions buffs your faction/de-buffs the opposite faction. If someone is in the zone "just for missions" they are directly affecting my abilities. Why would I let them get to their door missions unmolested? Would I stand there idly while they threw an Enervating field on me and then declared, "I'm not here to fight"? Should I not attack a buffer who is buffing that opposing brute or scrapper's damage output? Then why would I not attack someone who is doing the same thing indirectly?
PvP zone temp powers were created with the knowledge that they would be difficult to obtain because you would come under attack by other players in the process. Declaring, then, that those very players are somehow discourteous for playing the game, or the zone, as intended is beyond ridiculous. As I keep saying, if you don't like the way the game is layed out regarding risk vs reward, your beef is with the devs, not the PvPers.
Personally, if someone askes me to leave them alone because they are just looking for a badge or running door missions, I tend to do so. But if I'm already outnumbered in the zone and I see a couple of de-buff icons on me due to zone de-buffs, you better believe that I'm going to go after the ones de-buffing me. PvPers are not persecuting you.
I'd prefer that PvE content be completely taken out of PvP zones so that you know whenever you see an orange name, they are there for a fight. I'm tired of being labeled/derided as a jerk/ganker/SOB in broadcast and on the forums for killing some "non-combatant" who's mind I couldn't read, or who didn't realize that they were not in fact a non-combatant after all.
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...On March 7, 2007, Blizzard announced that the subscriber base for World of Warcraft had reached a new milestone, with 8.5 million players worldwide there are more than 2 million players in North America, 1.5 million players in Europe, and 3.5 million players in China.
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Um... I'm not really in on this part of the argument, but I think you just made a point for the other side. You're saying that of 8.5 million players, only 3.5 are in North America and Europe.....
Don't get me wrong, that's still a nice market share of US subscribers, but by their own admission there are people who have accounts with both WOW and CoX (and others). Being in one stat doesn't exclude someone from being counted in another.
Either way, stick with the 2 Million number. You will probably still make the point you were trying to, but it won't look so much like hyperbole.
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For example I kill a badger I get an ear full about how they're only there for badges and blah blah so I keep killing them then get petitioned.
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Hoj, this is the part I don't get. Why do you keep killing them until you get petitioned?
I mean, yes-- I agree-- a badger in a PvP zone needs to realize they're in a PvP zone. You kill them, they get upset, and you've proved your point: you have forced them to acknowledge they're in a PvP zone.
But killing them over and over until they petition you? Why? They're not a challenge to you, and probably not a threat to you, and so it's unlikely they're going to suddenly cut loose with their insane PvP skills and give you the good fight that I would imagine you want.
It's kinda like kicking a puppy, hoping it will turn into a werewolf, until the ASPCA shows up and hands you a summons.
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If they're an orange name why not kill them? Am I not there to PvP? As for killing them till they petition me, it's humerous that they are really going to cry to a dev that I killed them in a PvP zone.
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I think the point is that if you kill the same person again quickly there is a diminished reward, so it's clear you're just trying to irritate them and laugh at their discomfort.... am I wrong?
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If they're an orange name why not kill them? Am I not there to PvP? As for killing them till they petition me, it's humerous that they are really going to cry to a dev that I killed them in a PvP zone.
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I think the question is this: Why are you in a PvP zone? If you are there to have fun fighting other players, killing badgers who don't want anything to do with you is not only wasting their time. It's wasting your time as well. So why do you do it?
What brings you to a PvP zone?
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Depends on the zone. But usually, it's to earn bounty to buy +3 SO's. The only way to do that is to kill anything that cons OJ to me. To tell me I can't kill the badger at all is to deprive me of my reason for playing. To tell me I shouldn't kill them repeatedly is understandable as I don't "get" anything from them for doing serial-kills rapidly.
Then again...I think most of the instances given of serial kills are greatly exaggerated or, in the case of some of the more exotic illustrations offered, completely fabricated. It's akin to PVP urban legends.
I've yet to see it and I play on 4 servers, all zones (although mostly Sirens) and at various peak and off-peak times of the day. I've yet to witness the mythical roving bands of TP-Foe-gank-squads and some hapless victim who is trapped forever in a kill-rez-tp-kill cycle. I think it's purely fabrication intended to create a "victim" for the cause.
I agree that there is a difference between greifing and rudeness. The dev's and GM's have a clear definition of greifing and there are obvious behaviours that can and should be petitioned. However, this probably isn't the standard many people are talking about raising.
Take it this way. In real life there is a difference between rules that are enforceable by police and rules that are just plain considered polite. There is law, and then there is etiquette. Many of us are asking for sportmanship and etiquette, and not all of us doing so are crying because someone gave us debt or tp'd us when we weren't 'ready'.
I'll refer to my own previous post (to which I haven't yet seen a decent reply) that asked you PvPers to sell me on it.
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I'm not disputing that PvP is popular. Some people like it, and that's great. I'd also dare say that some like PvE as well. I'm not suggesting that a game shouldn't feature PvP. I'm protesting the OPs opinion that PvP shouldn't be optional if a game wants to be successful. I disagree strongly with the notion that PvE players are somehow more fickle than PvP players. Why is it so wrong to have both? Why alienate half the potential playerbase?
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I'm actually very supportive of two other groups out there, PVErs and RPers. I even posted so on page ten. Please understand most pvpers are attacked daily on their own forums by people that want PVP completely removed from the game.
The only MMORPG game that I can find hard numbers for that is PVE only that has more than 100k players is Disney's toontown for kids, which is literally meant for pre teens and is part of the Disney advertising machine.
Most PVE only games have a sharp beginning followed by a hard fall, normally settling to be between 10,000 - 30,000 players. If that exact thing were to happen to COX, that would mean that more the listed base of 160,000 players (June 2006) would lose 130,000 - 150,000 players.
The smallest loss under that scenerio would be about 4 out of 5 players. That doesn't leave a lot of people to PVE with does it?
The arguement is that completely removing PVP would be bad for this game. I was not arguing that PVE should be removed. I was also not arguing that PVP shouldn't be optional.
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Well...the Devs gave the PvPers the Arena and the ability to PvP...
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what else do you need really
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How about that the Arena actually worked as advertised...or even remotely reliably at least.
Ever tried setting up an Arena match besides the basic 1-on-1...or, god forbid, a series of them?
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...I don't think that the PVE game needs to be removed, I was trying to point out that PVE only MMORPGs don't do well. COX is a pvp optional game. It should remain so. It shouldn't ignore the rest of it's players. Though it shouldn't ignore the pvp community either.
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I don't PvP at this point, and I agree with this. The Dev's should follow up on features that were promised, if they're not currently working 'as intended'.
Examples would be base raids, power items, PvP and arena stability, etc.
I'm sure the core PvPers can come up with more.
Bear in mind, wants and features the devs have promised are two different things.
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Ok, since you want facts...here are some for ya.
1. Well over half of all MMO players worldwide are playing on a server with open non-consensual PvP.
2. Well over 90% of all MMO players are playing a game that allows PvP.
3. There are more players playing pure PvP games (including FPS and RTS games) than all MMO's combined.
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Can you site the source of these 'facts'?
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Yes I can, and without the single quotes around the word facts as well.
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1. Well over half of all MMO players worldwide are playing on a server with open non-consensual PvP.
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First of, take a look at this chart:
Distribution by MMO
Then consider that all of the Lineage 1 and 2 servers are open PvP and almost half of the WoW servers are.
WoW servers
The actual numbers are 106 (PvP & RPPvP) versus 115 (Normal & RP) however, its interesting to note that the PvP category has twice as many servers that have high populations as non-PvP servers (33 versus 16). The total numbers still work out to about 50 percent, since the non-PvP servers have 19 more medium (64 to 45) population servers. The most interesting statistic I found when doing some digging was that the server type with the highest percentage of high population servers was RPPvP, with 4 of the 6 servers labeled this way with high populations.
For more info on WoW break downs you can look at this chart:
WoW server population and type
Now, the stats on the MMOG Chart graph are from June 06 and since then WoW has grown quite a bit larger, but purely based on those stats we can see that L1, L2, and WoW PvP accounts for 48.85% alone. Add in UO (1.1%) DAOC (1.0%) and EVE (1.0%) and you get to 51.95%.
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2. Well over 90% of all MMO players are playing a game that allows PvP.
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This one is even easier since all WoW servers allow PvP and they are such a large portion of the market. I don't _think_ there are any MMO's with a percentage share greater than 1% that don't allow PvP.
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3. There are more players playing pure PvP games (including FPS and RTS games) than all MMO's combined.
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Based on this data:
Chart here
We can see that there is something less than 14 million MMO players. Its a little harder to garner hard statistics on the number of FPS and RTS gamers online, since they aren't all connecting to same company run servers. However, we know that there are many many people running servers, in fact there is an entire business around building and hosting servers for gaming clans.
Google Search
And we know that significant portions of people who buy games like BF2 (9 million copies sold) bought it exclusively for multiplayer. All told about 14% of all games sold are FPS games and another 12% or so are RTS.
Sales by genre 2005
The data above doesn't separate other "strategy" type games *30.8%) from RTS's so the 12% number is estimated. Given that those number represent more people in one year than have ever played an MMO its pretty obvious where the market is. If you include console numbers in the mix its even more skewed because Xbox Live is heavily FPS (mostly Halo) dominated. All in all MMO's are actually a small part of the gaming, even purely PC gaming, numbers. In fact, in many gaming companies the idea of MMO's was losing favor until Blizzard hit it big with WoW.
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Thank you very much for the back up Thor. You brought up numbers and proofs I was actually trying to avoid.
Being responsible for starting something that leads to a CU or NGE style update to this game is something that scares the crap out of me. I'm really just aiming for reasonable balancing and for the anti-pvp-it-must-be-removed-from-the-game crowd to back off some... =/
I would probably pvp alot - if I didn't have to completely respec my character to participate.
I'm just not a power gamer - I play a lot, I eventually to get to 50 just by sheer time investment - but I only have 2 50s and 2 others in the 30s. But I don't PL, I never level efficiently - if I find myself "playing to level" I die of boredom.
Pve built characters just can't participate in pvp, you get owned. Infact, you get insulted and owned. Veneficus has fly, the idea of going into a pvp zone with fly is boggling to most people. I also don't have tactics, and I have AoE attacks... and of course my knockback (essential for my pve game) is completely worthless in pvp. Everything that is effective in pve is totally worthless in pvp, and vice versa.
Unless you're willing and able to crank out a character specifically for pvp - you can't participate. That just sucks.
The following is My Opinion Only. Your Mileage May Vary.
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On one of the first four pages on this thread someone brought up that SWG had been pvp centric as it's end game and had then switched to pve for a bit. <snipd for brevity> SWG had to suck up that PVP paid the bills to begin regrowing now.
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I played SWG for two and a half years and have no idea where you got your information from but (from my viewpoint) it is dead wrong. If its your opinion, say so. If you have any facts, please present them. Unless you were inside the offices when decisions were made, you have no idea how or why things were done.
SWG did have a strong PvP element to it. You could also choose to never ever once in your entire game existence ever in any fashion even for one moment dip your toe into the shallow end of the pool of PvP.
SWG, at the beginning, was wonderful because it did not require PvP. The factions were nice and were available if you wanted to PvP but you could even join a faction and still not engage in PvP. You could explore, gather, build and sell to your hearts content and never once take a shot at anyone.
Yes, the Great Holocron Grind was unsatisfactory to some players. Everyone wants to be a Jedi, but by allowing everyone to become a Jedi you cheapen it, and the Developers of SWG rightly appeared at first to know this. They made it something that only a person who really, really, really wanted to be a Jedi would do it. I can still remember the night I was on Ahazi server when the system wide message from Darth Vader went out. The very first Jedi had been unlocked and come into existence and everyone in the Ahazi Galaxy was warned to be on the look out. I would have loved to be that guy, that was awesomely special.
What killed SWG (IMO) was the Devs incorrectly bowing to the pressure of the very vocal and very whiny PvP crowd. This is in my opinion and the opinion of my entire 120+ Guild that left SWG after each successive change in how to get your Jedi altered things for the worse until they ended up with that stupid mist hidden enclave. Even then I knew more than a dozen people who stuck it out until finally SWG completely destroyed all Non-PvP experience and turned the entire MMORPG into a twitch game.
I think of SWG as a cautionary tale for CoX. If CoX continues to bow to the pressure from the PvP crowd they will continue the rush to failure.
In SWG, each PvP change made someone unhappy. Scores of people would hit their forums complaining about whatever had been changed. Things would get changed again and most of them would be even more unhappy.
Sadly, the people who were happy and didnt want things to change didnt say anything. They were happily playing the game until the game took away their pets, their crafting, their foods, their architecture and city building and exploring and gathering. And when the PvPers took things away from them, people left.
CoX is headed down the same path. I9 is a prime example of giving me nothing that I want and everything I dislike. Inventions are nothing more than more powerful enhancements with tweakd out sets that will one at a time become nerfed as different FotM builds take the prize in PvP. In the mean time it will add seller spam in broadcast, it will have groups camping mobs or hunting areas and Kill Stealing Lts and Bosses that spawn. I have already seen threads (in test server forums) where someone complained that he spammed broadcast and request channel for over an hour and could not get anyone to sell him the recipe he wanted.
With less than two weeks open (on test) to the public, i9 has already proved that Seller Spam is going to be an issue. I foresee no way to avoid this. SWG had (at the beginning) the most comprehensive and versatile mercantile system that I have seen in any MMORPG. If you were a trader class, you could put your own kiosks almost any place you wanted, within limits of your level and what you owned of course. Even without that, every city had a Bazaar with numerous kiosks so that people who did not want to waste time on Non Combat skills could still sell their drops and products without having to stand in one spot and spam broadcast.
It didnt matter. Every starport, every city, every place where more than ten PCs could commonly be found, there was at least one person standing around spamming broadcast. Coming into any starport was like hitting a wall of spam that lagged you upwards of three minutes. Maybe not the end of the world but certainly an eternity in MMORPG time. I had a friend on dial-up that could not enter the capital city of the three most populated planets. Trying to take a starship in would cause him to disconnect.
The only reason why I dont feel CoX is destined for this is because the auction and invention system is so poorly thought out and badly implemented that I dont think many people are going to do anything with it. Like the PvP Zones and the Arenas, it is (in my opinion) one more example of CoX bowing to the pressure of a group that is not their main player base.
Most of my friends do not engage in PvP at all because of the behavior attributed to PvPers. Warranted or not, until the good PvPers step up to the plate and start actively excluding the bad PvPers, my opinion isnt likely to change. Yes, one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. If you good PvPers want to get rid of the bad opinion most of us have, you have to actively do something to stop the gankers, the childish smack talk and the horrible attitudes that are currently on display in any PvP zone.
The only myth I know of, insofar as PvP and CoX is concerned is that the Devs never intended to have PvP and it was added as a second thought.
I will say that there is no way that PvP was not going to come to CoX. Despite my opinion of it, there is money to be made in PvP. I believe CoX implemented it perfectly; it is put off into specific zones that you cannot enter on accident and even if you some how manage to stumble in, you have ample time to leave.
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PVP pays the bills. PVE does not.
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Of everything the OP said, this is what I disagree with the most. PvE obviously pays the bills quite well for CoX. The game existed for more than a year without any PvP content and the PvP content that is implemented is underpopulated and underused.
I believe that CoX is going to lose more and more of its hard core player base. The player base that has been here since opening. The player base that has seen the beloved nazis turned into funky interdimensional aliens. The player base that has patiently waited for the universities to be put to some use. The player base that WANTED skills, actual non-combat things that could be used, like detective work and inventing the ultimate nullifier, and even though we see our Universities being turned into factories we are still here. The honest, faithful, player base that still writes huge RP threads and submits stories to Artic Sun and again and again finds a reason to RP up from level one and fight Marrowsnap one more time.
This hard core player base is still here. It is still strong. It still has faith that the Developers wont forget us. When i9 goes live, this player base is going to take a hit, it is going to lose more of its numbers. They are going to hope that the Invention system will give their characters a feeling of Batmans utility belt, Mister Fantastics research room or Doctor Strange making a potion. They are going to be sorely disappointed.
And for a short time, PvP fans will return. They will sample the invention system. They will find it doesnt allow them to farm mobs for elite loot, but that wont stop them from KSing, Griefing as they try.
Then the PvPers will realize that they cant corner the market on certain special drops, like SWG and EQ allowed. The PvP zones will remain underpopulated and underutilized. The Arenas will remain empty. And the Non-PvPers who left will not return because they will have lost faith that anyone in CoX is paying attention to what made this game great at the beginning.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
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PvPers are not persecuting you.
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I agree with everything said by this poster. If you enter a PvP zone you should expect to be a target, regardless of why you're there, and especially if you're affecting the game play, however minorly, of other players in the zone. That's the glory of CoH's system. You don't have to enter the zone if you're not interested in PvP.
However, the statement I picked out, unfortunately, is not always true. The examples already cited are of PvPers getting their jolly's from tormenting people they know aren't going to fight back. I'm sure that's not what the dev's intended, and its not the kind of PvP I would ever be interested in. Mind you, my own point is skewed by those who whine when killed legitimately once or twice.
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...On March 7, 2007, Blizzard announced that the subscriber base for World of Warcraft had reached a new milestone, with 8.5 million players worldwide there are more than 2 million players in North America, 1.5 million players in Europe, and 3.5 million players in China.
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Um... I'm not really in on this part of the argument, but I think you just made a point for the other side. You're saying that of 8.5 million players, only 3.5 are in North America and Europe.....
Don't get me wrong, that's still a nice market share of US subscribers, but by their own admission there are people who have accounts with both WOW and CoX (and others). Being in one stat doesn't exclude someone from being counted in another.
Either way, stick with the 2 Million number. You will probably still make the point you were trying to, but it won't look so much like hyperbole.
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One of the drawbacks of using real information is the fact that sometimes the facts don't support your case as much as you'd like. In this case, I was surprised by the fact that the number of Chinese accounts had actually exceeded the number of American and European. I wasn't intentionally spinning the numbers, they just turned out to be different from what I expected, and I think my earlier post on reflected this in tone if not content.
Having said all of that, I only have one contact who plays WoW on the Asian servers and he has told me that the mix of PvP and PvE servers is roughly equal, but I'd like confirmation of that. Anyone who has data, especially someone patient enough to actually count the servers, would be in my good karma book for a good long while.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
(Many Pages Back) Jack Butler Said :
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So don't pretend that PvE'ers are a bunch of wusses who are over-sensitive. On the contrary, its us... the PvPers... who need to clean up our collective acts and start acting like human beings instead of a pack of rabid chimpanzees.
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My God, I want to have your baby.
This is stating so completely and clearly how I feel about the general PvP community. I have played PvP in MuDs and MuSHs where it was a do or die situation. You lose and PvP and your character is gone. It was the only PvP that I liked because we did not tolerate the childish gankfesting gangbanging that goes on in so many other PvP situations.
I understand that not every PvPer is "bad" like that. I will even concede that maybe most PvPers are not "bad" ones. But as long as the PvPer crowd tolerates the utter tools that are on their side of the fence, the general opinion of Non-PvPers is unlikely to change.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
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The following is My Opinion Only. Your Mileage May Vary.
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Please read my response on page ten. Also, please realize the orginal post was aimed at the pvp-needs-to-be-removed from-this-game crowd. There are a couple of others you missed on the past two pages.
Also, I see the Jedi thing you mentioned as not a PVP thing. In the worst cases, it was a different animal that I've only seen again with the worst cases of WOW purple fever. It destroyed a lot of stuff in all three communities and affected all three communities.
Otherwise, I'll stay out of the SWG thing. Everyone from that time has a different Point of view, with the one noted common thread, that they are all very, very angry about their experience...
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If they're an orange name why not kill them? Am I not there to PvP? As for killing them till they petition me, it's humerous that they are really going to cry to a dev that I killed them in a PvP zone.
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I think the question is this: Why are you in a PvP zone? If you are there to have fun fighting other players, killing badgers who don't want anything to do with you is not only wasting their time. It's wasting your time as well. So why do you do it?
What brings you to a PvP zone?
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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