The SWG points made here seem a bit funny to me. Most of the people I've heard complain about SWG it was the lag and the constant combat mechanics changes that irritated them, rather than anything specificly tied to PvP or PvE.
I left because I couldn't even be in a zone by myself without rubber banding, and I had the recommended system at the time.
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...On March 7, 2007, Blizzard announced that the subscriber base for World of Warcraft had reached a new milestone, with 8.5 million players worldwide there are more than 2 million players in North America, 1.5 million players in Europe, and 3.5 million players in China.
[/ QUOTE ]
Um... I'm not really in on this part of the argument, but I think you just made a point for the other side. You're saying that of 8.5 million players, only 3.5 are in North America and Europe.....
Don't get me wrong, that's still a nice market share of US subscribers, but by their own admission there are people who have accounts with both WOW and CoX (and others). Being in one stat doesn't exclude someone from being counted in another.
Either way, stick with the 2 Million number. You will probably still make the point you were trying to, but it won't look so much like hyperbole.
[/ QUOTE ]
One of the drawbacks of using real information is the fact that sometimes the facts don't support your case as much as you'd like. In this case, I was surprised by the fact that the number of Chinese accounts had actually exceeded the number of American and European. I wasn't intentionally spinning the numbers, they just turned out to be different from what I expected, and I think my earlier post on reflected this in tone if not content.
Having said all of that, I only have one contact who plays WoW on the Asian servers and he has told me that the mix of PvP and PvE servers is roughly equal, but I'd like confirmation of that. Anyone who has data, especially someone patient enough to actually count the servers, would be in my good karma book for a good long while. 
[/ QUOTE ]
It might not matter Thor. You do realize even on the PVE and RP servers, they can still declare, go hot and pvp. The primary difference being the grind experience from levels 20-70 due to auto flagging.
[/ QUOTE ]
True, much of the organized PvP occurring today is actually in the Battlegrounds as is accessible by anyone on any server and allows automated cross server matches. That is something we here in CoX can only drool about....
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
[ QUOTE ]
The SWG points made here seem a bit funny to me. Most of the people I've heard complain about SWG it was the lag and the constant combat mechanics changes that irritated them, rather than anything specificly tied to PvP or PvE.
I left because I couldn't even be in a zone by myself without rubber banding, and I had the recommended system at the time.
[/ QUOTE ]
You might get it a kick on this then. It was video that caught a guy who got banned for exploiting that factor by stream overload. For your rubberbanding memories, enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NSIjfDd4_Q
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[ QUOTE ]
...On March 7, 2007, Blizzard announced that the subscriber base for World of Warcraft had reached a new milestone, with 8.5 million players worldwide there are more than 2 million players in North America, 1.5 million players in Europe, and 3.5 million players in China.
[/ QUOTE ]
Um... I'm not really in on this part of the argument, but I think you just made a point for the other side. You're saying that of 8.5 million players, only 3.5 are in North America and Europe.....
Don't get me wrong, that's still a nice market share of US subscribers, but by their own admission there are people who have accounts with both WOW and CoX (and others). Being in one stat doesn't exclude someone from being counted in another.
Either way, stick with the 2 Million number. You will probably still make the point you were trying to, but it won't look so much like hyperbole.
[/ QUOTE ]
One of the drawbacks of using real information is the fact that sometimes the facts don't support your case as much as you'd like. In this case, I was surprised by the fact that the number of Chinese accounts had actually exceeded the number of American and European. I wasn't intentionally spinning the numbers, they just turned out to be different from what I expected, and I think my earlier post on reflected this in tone if not content.
Having said all of that, I only have one contact who plays WoW on the Asian servers and he has told me that the mix of PvP and PvE servers is roughly equal, but I'd like confirmation of that. Anyone who has data, especially someone patient enough to actually count the servers, would be in my good karma book for a good long while.
[/ QUOTE ]
It might not matter Thor. You do realize even on the PVE and RP servers, they can still declare, go hot and pvp. The primary difference being the grind experience from levels 20-70 due to auto flagging.
[/ QUOTE ]
True, much of the organized PvP occurring today is actually in the Battlegrounds as is accessible by anyone on any server and allows automated cross server matches. That is something we here in CoX can only drool about....
[/ QUOTE ]
Word, that would be awesome. =)
I have not played SWG...but I've had numerous conversations with several people who have and it's ill-advised to draw conclusions about CoX from SWG. We don't know what constraints or pressure the developers/designers were faced with. Were they seeing their population declining steadily? Perhaps the writing was already on the wall and they were facing the inevitable. I think portraying PvP as the culprit for SWG's downfall is woefully inaccurate.
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The only reason why I dont feel CoX is destined for this is because the auction and invention system is so poorly thought out and badly implemented...
[/ QUOTE ] I can't offer an opinion on this, but it will be interesting to see what "loot" will do to this game. I am in the camp that thinks the devs have most likely ignored the negative consequences of how "loot" econcomies affect the mind set of the population and are probably marveling at their own creativity in being able to do such a thing. I also suspect that many of these global changes are based on beliefs about subscription rates. There will be people who become obsessed with "loot" the same way we saw with badges.
But my reason for posting is to reiterate the need for this game to evolve in the area of PvP. I'm all for non-combat xp opportunies...heck I think they need to dramaticially expand PvE and include rescue missions where you have to manipulate objects, actually use powers to carry people, etc. None of which need invovle doing damage to a Hellion or a Malta. But I also trust the devs when they've elected not to implement skills because it just didn't work or make sense.
However, PvP also needs be given a real purpose. I'm not advocating forced PvP, but it has to be in the context of real missions and not just the free-for-all zones and arena.
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Most of my friends do not engage in PvP at all because of the behavior attributed to PvPers.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm in complete agreement, but the source of the problem is the system, not the players. The devs tell us it's rock/papers/scissors, but that's false. It's more like Scissors/Rice Paper/Printer Paper/Cellophane/Cardboard. A build like an EM/Fire Brute (with Insp + Accolades) will outperform any scrapper set that doesn't have Slow. Mind/Rad, Ice/En, etc....these builds are not balanced in the context of PvP because PvP isn't balanced for 1v1. So the devs need to address these things and they won't. You can't have gankers if people can't gank. Now, you can't truly balance 1v1, but the gap in peformance is reducible and they have mostly ignored the issue.
Self-elected PvP, in the context of real missions, is a huge area of growth for this game. It can be made to dramatically reduce many of the inequites we see in the arena and FFA zones. Someday, some development team is going to clue into this and make a killing because people will love it. I'd like to see Cryptic be that team.
This is an MMO. Other players are what separate this from a console game. It's silly not to use that.
One problem I am inclined to believe is the undo influence whiny groups have on development, but that may include the anti-PvP crowd as well.
I think we've had this discussion before Mieux, but I hate to tell you that even if your (mythical) 1v1 balance could be achieved it wouldn't stop ganking or the complaints about it.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
[ QUOTE ]
Thorizdin_LotD:
Now, if you have a real solution to dealing with "poo monkeys" I'm all ears.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exclude them. If you are on a team with someone who continually greifs other people, or who suggests you do things like TP foe the same person continually as he tries to get to the exit; kick them from your team and help the other people nuke them.
You CAN do something about people who are total Poo Flingers. You just choose not to.
[ QUOTE ]
Laylyn of HAUNT:
Please read my response on page ten. Also, please realize the orginal post was aimed at the pvp-needs-to-be-removed from-this-game crowd. There are a couple of others you missed on the past two pages.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
Try going back and reading what I said without assuming I am attacking you.
I read the entire thread. I realize what the original post was aimed at. I disagree with your OPINIONS. I see you and Thorizdin putting forth an awful lot of crap that you are claiming as fact but not once providing a link that backs your opinions up.
The Links that are provided go to useless amounts of data about other games and in no way are reflections of the numbers on CoX.
I do agree with the following statement: The Developers of CoX always anticipated the implementation of PvP and never intended to have CoX be PvE only. There is money to be made in PvP and they would have been stupid to ignore it.
I do NOT agree that PvP is the money making part of the game. In fact, I strongly disagree. I believe that PvP is a sideline, kind of like a movie putting out toys for the Happy Meal as a tie-in.
There are some observations available.
The PvE crowd has been in CoX at least a year and a half longer than the PvP.
The PvP areas of CoX are ghost towns most of the time.
The PvP crowd is constantly crying for one nerf or the other.
The PvP crowd is more likely to abandon the game for the next FotM game.
All of those statements are supported by numerous threads within these forums or by logging in at any moment of any day and going to a PvP zone and counting heads. They are very likely (in my opinion) to be true. They are certainly true for my three year experience of this game.
I disagree with your opinions. I state that my opinions are just that, opinions. I believe that the PvE players of this game are the core players that are more likely to stay with the game through changes they dislike.
I believe PvP players are more likely to leave any game, CoX or otherwise, that does not cater to their whims.
I believe that Developers who bow to the pressure from PvPers are doomed to have their games fail. Some faster, some slower, but eventually it is the changes made to cater to PvPers that cause most games to fail.
I base my belief on the fact that many of my friends who are not PvPers have stuck through one change after another of many (SWG, EQ, DAoC and other games.) games. They stick it out, and hope that the changes are done, or that their favorite non combat activity wont be pulled because somehow it was a root contribution to some PvP complaint.
Some of these same friends are here in CoX. Some of my new friends who share my feelings on PvP are here as well. We are hoping that the next PvP nerf wont cause us more grief. We are hoping that the Developers again focus on the things that make us feel like heroes, not the things that make us feel like killers.
We are still here. My friends that like PvP have gone from CoX to EQ2 to SWG (and back and then in again) to Guild Wars to Auto Assault and to Wow, bounced between all the others, come back and checked out CoX at various intervals or Issue Updates and left again.
So that is what I base my belief on. PvEers and RPers that I know have stayed. Despite changes, they have stayed. PvPers that I know have left, bounced around, checked in again and then left.
To be honest, the guys I know that really love crafting and gathering materials havent stuck around either. I like the gathering/exploring part, was never big on crafting.
The bottom line, for me, is; PvE with friends is endlessly entertaining. To my eyes, it seems as if the larger portion of the player base of CoX is of the same opinion. PvP, in small doses is okay, as long as the zone doesnt have any Poo Flingers around. Since the number of times I have entered a PvP zone and not had to deal with Poo Flingers (not counting the times I went in at 0300 and the place was empty) is less than I can count on one hand, I do not feel that PvP is paying the bills for CoX.
"SARS, Bird Flue, 9/11, Anthrax in the Mail, Mad Cow Disease. Pope John Paul didn't die, he preboarded." - Christopher Titus "5th Annual End of the World Tour"
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I could ask the same thing in reverse. If you're coming into a PvP zone, and there are PvPers there, why can't you give them what they want? A good fight. At least attempt it. Hell, you might find it entertaining. They are participating in the zone the way it was intended by attempting to kill you as much as you are by grabbing badges.
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That's not really reversing my question. My question is "why consistently attack someone who's asking not to be?"
But the simple answer to your question is "because by doing what I'm doing, I'm not in any way interfering with you or your enjoyment of the game." It's not really a lot to ask, courteously, to just lay off a guy who's not really there to put up a fight or do much of anything to take skin off anyone's back.
Your examples of a person doing PvE stuff that affects you in some way -- well, that's fine. But we're talking about people specifically looking for badges, not people participating in a PvP zone's "story."
It was fun.
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Laylyn of HAUNT:
Please read my response on page ten. Also, please realize the orginal post was aimed at the pvp-needs-to-be-removed from-this-game crowd. There are a couple of others you missed on the past two pages.
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Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
Try going back and reading what I said without assuming I am attacking you....
...Poo Flingers...
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I wasn't attacking either. On a side note, I think you and Jack would make a perfect couple...
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I think we've had this discussion before Mieux, but I hate to tell you that even if your (mythical) 1v1 balance could be achieved it wouldn't stop ganking or the complaints about it.
[/ QUOTE ] I think you need to reread my post. Specifically the part about 1v1 balancing.
And as for not stopping ganking you're completely wrong. You know how many university shootings they've had in Great Britain in the last 20 years? ZERO. Why because they gun laws are different. The devs can stop ganking if they wanted to.....It's called consensual PvP. But the point is not to stop ganking in FFA zones, but to set up PvP missions where the inequities are reduced.
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Thorizdin_LotD:
Now, if you have a real solution to dealing with "poo monkeys" I'm all ears.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exclude them. If you are on a team with someone who continually greifs other people, or who suggests you do things like TP foe the same person continually as he tries to get to the exit; kick them from your team and help the other people nuke them.
You CAN do something about people who are total Poo Flingers. You just choose not to.
[ QUOTE ]
Laylyn of HAUNT:
Please read my response on page ten. Also, please realize the orginal post was aimed at the pvp-needs-to-be-removed from-this-game crowd. There are a couple of others you missed on the past two pages.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whisky Tango Foxtrot?
Try going back and reading what I said without assuming I am attacking you.
I read the entire thread. I realize what the original post was aimed at. I disagree with your OPINIONS. I see you and Thorizdin putting forth an awful lot of crap that you are claiming as fact but not once providing a link that backs your opinions up.
The Links that are provided go to useless amounts of data about other games and in no way are reflections of the numbers on CoX.
I do agree with the following statement: The Developers of CoX always anticipated the implementation of PvP and never intended to have CoX be PvE only. There is money to be made in PvP and they would have been stupid to ignore it.
I do NOT agree that PvP is the money making part of the game. In fact, I strongly disagree. I believe that PvP is a sideline, kind of like a movie putting out toys for the Happy Meal as a tie-in.
There are some observations available.
The PvE crowd has been in CoX at least a year and a half longer than the PvP.
The PvP areas of CoX are ghost towns most of the time.
The PvP crowd is constantly crying for one nerf or the other.
The PvP crowd is more likely to abandon the game for the next FotM game.
All of those statements are supported by numerous threads within these forums or by logging in at any moment of any day and going to a PvP zone and counting heads. They are very likely (in my opinion) to be true. They are certainly true for my three year experience of this game.
I disagree with your opinions. I state that my opinions are just that, opinions. I believe that the PvE players of this game are the core players that are more likely to stay with the game through changes they dislike.
I believe PvP players are more likely to leave any game, CoX or otherwise, that does not cater to their whims.
I believe that Developers who bow to the pressure from PvPers are doomed to have their games fail. Some faster, some slower, but eventually it is the changes made to cater to PvPers that cause most games to fail.
I base my belief on the fact that many of my friends who are not PvPers have stuck through one change after another of many (SWG, EQ, DAoC and other games.) games. They stick it out, and hope that the changes are done, or that their favorite non combat activity wont be pulled because somehow it was a root contribution to some PvP complaint.
Some of these same friends are here in CoX. Some of my new friends who share my feelings on PvP are here as well. We are hoping that the next PvP nerf wont cause us more grief. We are hoping that the Developers again focus on the things that make us feel like heroes, not the things that make us feel like killers.
We are still here. My friends that like PvP have gone from CoX to EQ2 to SWG (and back and then in again) to Guild Wars to Auto Assault and to Wow, bounced between all the others, come back and checked out CoX at various intervals or Issue Updates and left again.
So that is what I base my belief on. PvEers and RPers that I know have stayed. Despite changes, they have stayed. PvPers that I know have left, bounced around, checked in again and then left.
To be honest, the guys I know that really love crafting and gathering materials havent stuck around either. I like the gathering/exploring part, was never big on crafting.
The bottom line, for me, is; PvE with friends is endlessly entertaining. To my eyes, it seems as if the larger portion of the player base of CoX is of the same opinion. PvP, in small doses is okay, as long as the zone doesnt have any Poo Flingers around. Since the number of times I have entered a PvP zone and not had to deal with Poo Flingers (not counting the times I went in at 0300 and the place was empty) is less than I can count on one hand, I do not feel that PvP is paying the bills for CoX.
[/ QUOTE ]
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The PvP areas of CoX are ghost towns most of the time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Obviously someone who PvPs would visit the PvP zones so often to know that they are ghost towns... right?
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The PvP crowd is constantly crying for one nerf or the other.
[/ QUOTE ]
And just like PvP'ers, PvE'ers cry nerfs when they see that they aren't the greatest in PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
The PvP crowd is more likely to abandon the game for the next FotM game
[/ QUOTE ]
Just like the PvP crowd, the PvE crowd would leave for another if a new game came along that gave you everything you've ever wanted to do in this game, or had radically new things you've never tried before.
PvE'ers like yourself, with your biased opinions, but opinions non the less, are coming into PvP zones excepting to be the best instantly.
And if your weak PvE build doesn't match up to someone who has been pvPing for years, then you cry nerf, and call names; Make it seem like PvP'ers are the problems, and make them out to be something not all pvpers are.
Same numbers of [censored] who PvP, also PvE.
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I think we've had this discussion before Mieux, but I hate to tell you that even if your (mythical) 1v1 balance could be achieved it wouldn't stop ganking or the complaints about it.
[/ QUOTE ] I think you need to reread my post. Specifically the part about 1v1 balancing.
And as for not stopping ganking you're completely wrong. You know how many university shootings they've had in Great Britain in the last 20 years? ZERO. Why because they gun laws are different. The devs can stop ganking if they wanted to.....It's called consensual PvP. But the point is not to stop ganking in FFA zones, but to set up PvP missions where the inequities are reduced.
[/ QUOTE ]
You consent when you enter the zone. Read the sign, if you dont agree leave. LEAVE! It's that easy. It'd be the best descion for everyone.
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I think we've had this discussion before Mieux, but I hate to tell you that even if your (mythical) 1v1 balance could be achieved it wouldn't stop ganking or the complaints about it.
[/ QUOTE ] I think you need to reread my post. Specifically the part about 1v1 balancing.
And as for not stopping ganking you're completely wrong. You know how many university shootings they've had in Great Britain in the last 20 years? ZERO. Why because they gun laws are different. The devs can stop ganking if they wanted to.....It's called consensual PvP. But the point is not to stop ganking in FFA zones, but to set up PvP missions where the inequities are reduced.
[/ QUOTE ]
You consent when you enter the zone. Read the sign, if you dont agree leave. LEAVE! It's that easy. It'd be the best descion for everyone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Here, let me emphasize this since you missed it the first time...
But the point is not to stop ganking in FFA zones...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thorizdin_LotD:
Now, if you have a real solution to dealing with "poo monkeys" I'm all ears.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exclude them. If you are on a team with someone who continually greifs other people, or who suggests you do things like TP foe the same person continually as he tries to get to the exit; kick them from your team and help the other people nuke them.
You CAN do something about people who are total Poo Flingers. You just choose not to.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I already do all of those things, I have never said that individuals and groups shouldn't try to improve things. What I have said is that trying to go over and above with rules that are over and above what the developers and owners of the game have said are the rules won't work.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
[ QUOTE ]
But the point is not to stop ganking in FFA zones...
[/ QUOTE ]
Free for all zones? Ok so your talking about Warburg. Ganking? In a PvP zone? Nah doesn't exist. When I enter a PvP zone, I know full well im going to get attacked non-stop, as long as possible. Its a PvP zone, you are OBLIGATED to attack anyone and everyone (FFA zone). Ganking, pfft thats just what cowards use to call PvPers who attempt to FULLFILL the goal of the zone, and of the PvP itself.
[ QUOTE ]
But the point is not to stop ganking in FFA zones, but to set up PvP missions where the inequities are reduced.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry if I missed your point, but this paragraph seems to be aimed at the zones.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm in complete agreement, but the source of the problem is the system, not the players. The devs tell us it's rock/papers/scissors, but that's false. It's more like Scissors/Rice Paper/Printer Paper/Cellophane/Cardboard. A build like an EM/Fire Brute (with Insp + Accolades) will outperform any scrapper set that doesn't have Slow. Mind/Rad, Ice/En, etc....these builds are not balanced in the context of PvP because PvP isn't balanced for 1v1. So the devs need to address these things and they won't. You can't have gankers if people can't gank. Now, you can't truly balance 1v1, but the gap in peformance is reducible and they have mostly ignored the issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll always agree that team v team balance (especially factional) can be improved and that more PvP venues is an improvement. Where I disagree is trying to work on 1v1 balance, its a waste of time and resources and always will be. Can some of the underperforming sets be made better and the "best" reduced? Absolutely, but that should always be done in the context of a team, usually of a specific size.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
[ QUOTE ]
You can't have gankers if people can't gank.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I guess that's assuming everyone in PvP has the same amount of knowledge and skill?
I gank plenty on my Mind/Psi Dom...and go out of my way to specifically target fotm elite builds on a build probably every elite PvP'er would consider underperforming.
[ QUOTE ]
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lol JackButtface
[/ QUOTE ] lawl
[/ QUOTE ]
My, you certainly destroyed me utterly with your intelligent rebuttal of my points. Whatever am I going to do?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could ask the same thing in reverse. If you're coming into a PvP zone, and there are PvPers there, why can't you give them what they want? A good fight. At least attempt it. Hell, you might find it entertaining. They are participating in the zone the way it was intended by attempting to kill you as much as you are by grabbing badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not really reversing my question. My question is "why consistently attack someone who's asking not to be?"
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, it's an exact reversal of your question. You ask why PvPers won't give you what you want, and I asked the same of you. Perfectly valid. Why *won't* you fight in a PvP zone?
[ QUOTE ]
But the simple answer to your question is "because by doing what I'm doing, I'm not in any way interfering with you or your enjoyment of the game." It's not really a lot to ask, courteously, to just lay off a guy who's not really there to put up a fight or do much of anything to take skin off anyone's back.
[/ QUOTE ]
You being in the zone potentially affects my gameplay. Period. I have no idea what your intentions are when you zone in and if you con orange, you are another potential author of my demise. Even if you announce your intentions, "I'm only here for badges", how do I know you're telling the truth? I don't know you. I can't count how many times I've been jumped by people who were "just farming pillboxes", or "just lookin' around".
Just last night, I got smacked by some pillboxer's heavy in RV while fighting someone else because they didn't know how to put the thing on passive while they watched.
I sent them to the hospital for it. Not because I was pissed off at them, but because they didn't know how to control the pet and I wanted it off my back. They were easier to kill than the heavy. Problem solved. No harm done. They were there for the pillbox badge. They affected my gameplay.
[ QUOTE ]
Your examples of a person doing PvE stuff that affects you in some way -- well, that's fine. But we're talking about people specifically looking for badges, not people participating in a PvP zone's "story."
[/ QUOTE ]
Are we just talking about exploration badges? Why even announce that? You already know where you're going (vidiot maps), go there and get out. Announcing your presence just makes you an instant target. And as stated above, nobody has any reason to take you at your word regarding your intentions. All you did was tell everyone in the zone that an enemy has arrived.
And even if you're just getting exploration badges...you're yet another entity in the zone screwing up my targetting. Don't be surprised if someone tabs to you in the middle of a fight and takes some shots.
So please understand, just because *you* don't think you're affecting my gameplay, doesn't mean you aren't.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm having a really, really hard time believing nobody knows what Jack's talking about. It's true that it's hard to define what level of [blank]holery is unacceptable without descending into suffocating legalese, and I agree that Jack has used some (shall we say) sweeping generalizations in his rhetoric, but is everyone really going to act like they don't know what kind of conduct he's talking about?
Really?
[/ QUOTE ]
It serves their purpose to willfully pretend that they don't, it seems.
[ QUOTE ]
Free for all zones? Ok so your talking about Warburg. Ganking? In a PvP zone? Nah doesn't exist. When I enter a PvP zone, I know full well im going to get attacked non-stop, as long as possible. Its a PvP zone, you are OBLIGATED to attack anyone and everyone (FFA zone). Ganking, pfft thats just what cowards use to call PvPers who attempt to FULLFILL the goal of the zone, and of the PvP itself.
[/ QUOTE ]
So that's the mentality that's undermining my enjoyment of PvP.
I'd been wondering.
Just for example, my favorite PvP fight was one that neither of us won. We couldn't kill eachother. I was hunting him, he was trying to strike me down before I could get a hold of him. It was actually fun.
I've had more than one enjoyable match between me and someone else be ruined by someone else butting in and killing one of us. Similar lines in the couple of team fights, two teams going at it, having fun, and then the self appointed calvary from on side or another shows up and makes it completely pointless to attempt anything.
Since I'm curious, is this a common mindset for PvPers here? Or do I have hope of being able to enjoy PvP from time to time?
[ QUOTE ]
Aren't there players out there besides just badgers and PvP'ers?
[/ QUOTE ]
Some of us are both.
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
lol JackButtface
[/ QUOTE ] lawl
[/ QUOTE ]
My, you certainly destroyed me utterly with your intelligent rebuttal of my points. Whatever am I going to do?
[/ QUOTE ]
Reply to the person, and show that you actually do care about someone calling you a name. Then act like a child and make yourself into a bigger bab*e*.
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Free for all zones? Ok so your talking about Warburg. Ganking? In a PvP zone? Nah doesn't exist. When I enter a PvP zone, I know full well im going to get attacked non-stop, as long as possible. Its a PvP zone, you are OBLIGATED to attack anyone and everyone (FFA zone). Ganking, pfft thats just what cowards use to call PvPers who attempt to FULLFILL the goal of the zone, and of the PvP itself.
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So that's the mentality that's undermining my enjoyment of PvP.
I'd been wondering.
Just for example, my favorite PvP fight was one that neither of us won. We couldn't kill eachother. I was hunting him, he was trying to strike me down before I could get a hold of him. It was actually fun.
I've had more than one enjoyable match between me and someone else be ruined by someone else butting in and killing one of us. Similar lines in the couple of team fights, two teams going at it, having fun, and then the self appointed calvary from on side or another shows up and makes it completely pointless to attempt anything.
Since I'm curious, is this a common mindset for PvPers here? Or do I have hope of being able to enjoy PvP from time to time?
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If you liked the 1v1 so much, why didn't you make the descion to go to the arena, where you would not have been attacked in a zone made where people attack you because your a villain/hero.
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...On March 7, 2007, Blizzard announced that the subscriber base for World of Warcraft had reached a new milestone, with 8.5 million players worldwide there are more than 2 million players in North America, 1.5 million players in Europe, and 3.5 million players in China.
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Um... I'm not really in on this part of the argument, but I think you just made a point for the other side. You're saying that of 8.5 million players, only 3.5 are in North America and Europe.....
Don't get me wrong, that's still a nice market share of US subscribers, but by their own admission there are people who have accounts with both WOW and CoX (and others). Being in one stat doesn't exclude someone from being counted in another.
Either way, stick with the 2 Million number. You will probably still make the point you were trying to, but it won't look so much like hyperbole.
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One of the drawbacks of using real information is the fact that sometimes the facts don't support your case as much as you'd like. In this case, I was surprised by the fact that the number of Chinese accounts had actually exceeded the number of American and European. I wasn't intentionally spinning the numbers, they just turned out to be different from what I expected, and I think my earlier post on reflected this in tone if not content.
Having said all of that, I only have one contact who plays WoW on the Asian servers and he has told me that the mix of PvP and PvE servers is roughly equal, but I'd like confirmation of that. Anyone who has data, especially someone patient enough to actually count the servers, would be in my good karma book for a good long while.
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It might not matter Thor. You do realize even on the PVE and RP servers, they can still declare, go hot and pvp. The primary difference being the grind experience from levels 20-70 due to auto flagging.