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And now you'll have a new, seperate inventory for Recipes. I'm not seeing the issue here.
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I think it will be an unecessary restriction that serves only to make using the system harder than people want. Many of the IO sets look like they'll only really be worth using if you get several IOs; otherwise, the lesser effect of any one IO makes slotting it a bit of a drawback. If people need to mix and match anyway, why make it harder?
The answer, of course, is that they want to encourage trading and restrict hoarding. In classic hamhanded fashion, they do that by trying to give you no choice in the matter. In my experience, attempts by developers to force certain sorts of behavior on players very rarely works as intended, and I suspect that will be the case here.
-D
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Yep. If recipes are storable in salavge base storage, you will just get a bunch of people with solo SGs on free rent plots, and the salvage storage is, IIRC, like 10k prestige, which you get 20k for even starting a sg.
Or people will make use of alts to hoard stuff, if they try to put some base restriction. Attempting to force trading/auctioning is a ludicrous idea to start with. Wake up devs. People are selfish. You wonder why people still complain about high prices for base items with prestige and want their own personal rooms or sg bases. They're not playing to help other players get stuff, they're playing to get stuff for themselves. Loot is going to be even worse with the hoarding. Auction houses will be ghost towns until a lot of people get what they personally want, even with your attempt to force us into them.
Consequences of the current proposed system:
1) If you played the game "properly" (as intended), completing all the story arcs you could, and tying up any loose ends after you hit 50, then you will be punished for this. The only way you will be able to collect Story Arc drops is through rolling an alt and doing the missions all over again.
2) If you played "normally", and completed quite a few story arcs, but not all, then you will be paritally punished. You can go back and complete the 45-50 arcs you didn't get around to doing, and if a Broker referred you to any low level contacts along the way to 50, you will most likely be able to contact them and complete an arc or two full of grey-con enemies.
If a "Flashback" system is introduced, you will be able to return to incomplete contacts.
3) If you were PLed most of the way to 50, then despite the Devs insistence that they dislike PLing, you will be rewarded. When Issue 9 arrives you can start out by running through all your level 45-50 arcs, and then returning to any lower level contacts you were referred to via old brokers, a lot of whom will offer at least a single arc before realising you have outlevelled them.
In all cases, from now on the most effective way to collect Inventions Story Arc drops will be to find a SG or otherwise dedicated team of 7 helpers, at the same level range as yourself (ideally level 10). The 8 of you can then synchornise your missions - running a Mayhem/Safeguard together, choosing to be introduced to the same contact, and then simultaneously completing missions and story arcs using the "autocomplete" feature.
This way, all team members will have a good chance at defeat drops, while also picking up 8 story arc drops per mission arc. You'll gain approximately 1 story arc reward per hour - the same rate as sololing, but you and your team members will be able to mix and match your rewards as desired and face a lot more enemies along the way. Your only possible downfall will be facing only one AV/EB between all 8 team members, leading to only a single defeat drop. However, since all defeat drops are random (regardless of minion, Boss, AV, etc) this should not prove a hassle.
Teaming without synchronisation will become an extremely inefficient playstyle.
Is this really how it will be?
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
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YES highly agreed... there IS a solution though... it was shelved way back oh i4 i think...
FLASHBACKING!!! when you cna repeat a favorite contact or storyarc...
include THAT into the invention system... and i THINK you might have a winna!!!!
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Except that the reason people are unhappy (myself included) is that they have done all the Story Arcs and so being able to exemp down to a specific level will not solve anything.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Except that the reason people are unhappy (myself included) is that they have done all the Story Arcs and so being able to exemp down to a specific level will not solve anything.
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Unless the devs change the reward system, so that everybody on the team gets the story arc completion reward, rather than just the mission owner.
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In all cases, from now on the most effective way to collect Inventions Story Arc drops will be to find a SG or otherwise dedicated team of 7 helpers, at the same level range as yourself (ideally level 10). The 8 of you can then synchornise your missions - running a Mayhem/Safeguard together, choosing to be introduced to the same contact, and then simultaneously completing missions and story arcs using the "autocomplete" feature.
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Except that by teaming on full teams of 8, you'll virtually guarantee that you're going to outlevel arcs you could otherwise run solo since you gain so much more xp teaming than you do solo. Even if you *wanted* to do this and thus lose out on some super rares, it will be virtually impossible to do heroside, as a great majority of SAs give their missions in a random order.
The devs just really need to drop this philosophy of rarity. If they have to rebalance things like 10% defense for pets or +recovery/+regen enhancements, then so be it. By rolling the current B rewards into the C and D lists, then letting parts of the C and D lists be duplicated in B (after they're rebalanced), they'll still preserve a *reasonable* level of rarity in this game -- few people run TFs and Trials -- while making SA rewards valuable. It also gives 50s something to do -- run TFs and Trials for rare rewards -- without creating a situation in which certain IOs are impossible to obtain because you didn't happen to get lucky while leveling up through the game or because new content was created after you'd leveled up.
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In all cases, from now on the most effective way to collect Inventions Story Arc drops will be to find a SG or otherwise dedicated team of 7 helpers, at the same level range as yourself (ideally level 10). The 8 of you can then synchornise your missions - running a Mayhem/Safeguard together, choosing to be introduced to the same contact, and then simultaneously completing missions and story arcs using the "autocomplete" feature.
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Only in CoV are you given the same contacts to choose among.
In CoH the list of possible contacts given after a Safeguard depends on your origin, AFAIK, so it is impossible to chose the same contact for all team mebers unless you are of same (or close?) origins.
And then you have the problem of many contacts giving a random length segment of random missions before giving the true story arc, giving you a long period of confusion and frustration before you are "on track" on the story arc... 
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Only in CoV are you given the same contacts to choose among.
In CoH the list of possible contacts given after a Safeguard depends on your origin, AFAIK, so it is impossible to chose the same contact for all team members unless you are of same (or close?) origins.
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Poor Heroes. I forgot about that. Oh wait...I'm a villain...does this mean I get to laugh at you evilly?
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And then you have the problem of many contacts giving a random length segment of random missions before giving the true story arc, giving you a long period of confusion and frustration before you are "on track" on the story arc...
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There goes my laugh. You're right, for most contacts, anyways. Some infamous examples like the TV are jumbled for each character, while others like Abyss pretty much follow the same set pattern. Oh well.
What ticks me off more than anything else today, is that I just remembered that back in October I decided to "tie up loose ends" on all my level 50 alts. Back then I had the final mission of the Vivacious Verandi arc set up on all but one of my villains, cos I like working for Vivacious but DESPISE betraying her to Hardcase.
I also had the Ghost Widow betrayal open on 1 alt, the TV "farming mish" open on by Brute, the Shady badge mish reserved on another, and the Lord Recluse finale open on 2 others cos I had them reserved for SG Turret badge purposes.
That's NINE quick rare Pool B drops I threw away right there! Sheesh, it's almost enough to drive me nuts. I could have taken like 30 mins to dorp those 9 rewards the day Issue 9 arrived. Sux!
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
Okay, this thread is simply too massive for me to be bothered reading through the entire thing.
Had a thought on the "gimped" feeling: would it be possible for a toon to "teach" another toon a recipe they have, have used or have currently slotted? even if this could be done a set number of times, it might help alleviate the major feeling of resentment i've been seeing in the few dips i've had into reading posts.
I've also not seen anywhere mentioned that a recipe expires after use. Is this the case?
If, in my infinite impatience with a massively long thread, i've missed posts dealing with these areas, I apologise.
EDIT: I also apologise for my terrible spelling, which I think I have corrected.
"The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open"
"Sometimes we risk taking things too far to see how far we can really go."
Interwebz Hoard is now at: 33 Interwebz
{Peoples who have Contributed to the Hoard:: (30) & (2)}
Now available in a wide range of flavours!
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I've also not seen anywhere mentioned that a recipie expires after use. Is this the case?
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Yes. Dropped recipes are one-use.
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"Want that ultra-important drop? Well cut a hole in your chair and put a bucket under it, cause the only way you're getting it is by completing an 8 hour task force."
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Uh uh, I haven't taken 8 hours to complete a Task Force in a year. And that was a Shadow Shard TF on a PUG before the teleporters to each Shard zone existed.
Let's see what TFs and SFs I have done this year:
Moonfire - 1:59hr
Recluse x3 - 1:06hr; 1:23hr; 1:57hr (1:28hr avg)
Ernesto Hess x2 - 1:55hr; 1:24hr (1:39hr avg)
Synapse - 3:36hr
Katie Hannon x2 - 0:56hr; 0:41hr (0:48hr avg)
Eden - 2:12hr
Positron - 3:28hr
Virgil Tarikoss - 1:50hr
Silver Mantis - 2:40hr
Ice Mistral - 1:58hr
Those are all PUGs. Yes, the RSF on PUGs takes an hour and a half average. The longest TFs in there are Positron and Synapse, which are known to take "forever", but they're nowhere near 8 hours. I haven't done any Shadow Shard TFs this year yet, but last time it took less than 4 hours as well.
Also, the TF pool requires you to do ANY TF. So, don't want to spend much time? Do Katie Hannon. A good team will have it done in half an hour.
People really need to stop spreading the myth that TFs are hideously long enterprises that only the most dedicated teams should attempt.
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
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Katie Hannon x2 - 0:56hr; 0:41hr (0:48hr avg)
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I see this being an extremely popular Task Force once inventions go live.
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Katie Hannon x2 - 0:56hr; 0:41hr (0:48hr avg)
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I see this being an extremely popular Task Force once inventions go live.
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That and Zerging the Eden Trial
I perosnally feel that there should be no story arc pool drops that a player can't get from other sources. It won't solve the problem of having lost those opportunities from having completed the arcs before even hearing about inventions, but it will make it more bearable.
Currently published Mission Architect arcs:
Arc ID# 70466: From the Abyss.
Arc ID# 403174: The Serpent's Revenge.
Arc ID# 534236: The Clockwork Angel.
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Now I hear you guys... you all seem to dislike the Story Arc aspect of this system. I've had some discussions with the team yesterday about what we could do instead, and still keep the flavor of the four pool system, because having the extra three pools allows us to not only reward risk/reward, but time/reward as well. Takes longer to do a Task Force? Here's a nice bonus you can't get anywhere else. Finish the Respec trial, but already have all your Respecs?
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Late to the thread, but what the heck.
"Seem to dislike" is indeed too diplomatic. Having anything available only through finishing arcs is a mistake. Look at my sig, Doc. Every one of the characters I play regularly is a 50. At this point, I enjoy playing my 50s and I'm pretty much out of the leveling game. Naturally, I'll want to improve some of the favorite characters with Inventions, but how many Story Arcs do you suppose are still available to me? Heh ... not many. Maria, Harvey, Crimson ... in most cases, I've finished them all.
The idea of being guaranteed a good reward for an arc is okay. It's the idea of some of those rewards being available only for finishing Arcs that's bad. Worse, the reward is only presented to the Arc owner anyway.
I know you want Arcs to be special, but the big xp bonus at the end is already pretty special. Maybe Pool B should be "Mission Completion" rather than "Arc Completion," with drop rates adjusted accordingly as a result of greater eligibility? I'm not exactly a fan of introducing loot drops into City anyway, but since there's no avoiding it ...
You need to be very careful introducing something like this three years into a game where the drop rates of individual items have rarely mattered in the past. Specific enhancement drops aren't vital since we can get what we need from the stores. Specific base salvage drops aren't crucial since everything gets refined into components. Specific invention salvage/recipe drops only from certain activities reminds me uncomfortably of the bad old days of Diablo 2.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
why doesnt anyone simply point out the fact that this is for most players to spend MORE time gaming? therefore, in a way, keep us tied to the game? the only thing i 'm sure about, is that multi task comps and video cards will allow us to play two accounts without the expenses of an extra PC, but we'll need an extra 12$ per month...
now, who wins if everyone get another account???
and as we speak, the fence between casual and hardcore gamers is widening, same with the fence between multi 50's gamers loaded with influence and the sunday players begging for a pence...
meet u at wentworth...
so IRL or ingame, there s no place for the poor...
"someone blamin' it on the heals , the sb or the tanker better play Scrabble"
on CoH since June 9/2005(Freedom)
non pl'ed alts:
ZZ KRUGER, 50 Claws/Sr Scrapper,
FEARS, 50 Sonic/Energy Blaster,
Ether Nitty, 50 Dark/Kinetics Defender,
Bengali, 50 Invul/Energy Tanker,
Jeez, 50 Illu./Kinetics Controller
Subteranean, 50 Rad./Energy Defender,
ETI, 50 Broadsword/Regen. Scrapper,
Seventy Nine,50 Psy/kinetics Defender (lk to 22) etc...
(all Trailblazed)
on CoV since Nov.11/2005(Freedom)
Rules, 1st 50 Fire/Kinetics Corruptor
Weeder, 50 Energy/Regen. Stalker,
LOVE, 50 Claws/Sr Stalker, etc...
Over 2400 badges, 4700 hours ingame...
__________________________________________________ __________
pl'ed alts:
City Life, 50 Fire/Kinetics Controller
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why doesnt anyone simply point out the fact that this is for most players to spend MORE time gaming?
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Because it's not a fact.
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why doesnt anyone simply point out the fact that this is for most players to spend MORE time gaming?
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Because it's not a fact.
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Exactly, from what I can see the system is setup so that if you play casually, you will find recipes and salvage. Even find complete sets. All with no special work on your part.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
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why doesnt anyone simply point out the fact that this is for most players to spend MORE time gaming?
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Because it's not a fact.
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Exactly, from what I can see the system is setup so that if you play casually, you will find recipes and salvage. Even find complete sets. All with no special work on your part.
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And, IMO even better, the guys who can find the stuff and sell it make it so I can buy what I need and sell my unneeded random drops.
I only see the "Pokemon crowd"* as being in deep trouble.
* Collectors needing it all.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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I am listening to your ideas, but a Flashback system is simply not something we can implement in a timeframe you would all be happy with.
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but when the rubber actually hits the road, how much difference is there between a story arc and a task force? They are both nothing more or less than a sequence of missions.
The presentation is different, but the content is close to identical.
Given this, why can story arcs not be handled via a flashback system that presents them using the current TF technology?
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Instead we are looking into other options to get you the Pool B choice so level 50s don't feel gimped.
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Keep us posted.
Please.
Scrappers are just like chainsaws. Somewhat hard to handle, EXTREMELY dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane.
@Alissara - an Angry Angel
The Angry Angels. When it absolutely positively has to be spanked today.
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I know you want Arcs to be special, but the big xp bonus at the end is already pretty special. Maybe Pool B should be "Mission Completion" rather than "Arc Completion," with drop rates adjusted accordingly as a result of greater eligibility?
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That's an excellent idea. I second it.
Currently published Mission Architect arcs:
Arc ID# 70466: From the Abyss.
Arc ID# 403174: The Serpent's Revenge.
Arc ID# 534236: The Clockwork Angel.
[ QUOTE ]
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I know you want Arcs to be special, but the big xp bonus at the end is already pretty special. Maybe Pool B should be "Mission Completion" rather than "Arc Completion," with drop rates adjusted accordingly as a result of greater eligibility?
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That's an excellent idea. I second it.
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If they did this I would hope they would exclude Newspaper/Police Scanner missions. That way it would be a reward for doing actual contact missions (which are in abundant supply forever as long as you team with others) but not reward people for ninja-completing the cherry picked missions from the papers/scanners.
Or, if they really want them more limited than that, instead of all regular contact missions...<pausing to put on personal force field>....perhaps make them have a chance of dropping for doing a mission in a PvP zone. Those PvP zone missions already drop rare salvage. Just give them a chance to drop either salvage or a recipe.
This wouldn't force anyone into PvP, it would just give them a little bit of risk getting to the mission and back (if they can't do it in 30 seconds) for the greater reward it would provide.
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I know you want Arcs to be special, but the big xp bonus at the end is already pretty special. Maybe Pool B should be "Mission Completion" rather than "Arc Completion," with drop rates adjusted accordingly as a result of greater eligibility?
[/ QUOTE ]
That's an excellent idea. I second it.
[/ QUOTE ]
If they did this I would hope they would exclude Newspaper/Police Scanner missions. That way it would be a reward for doing actual contact missions (which are in abundant supply forever as long as you team with others) but not reward people for ninja-completing the cherry picked missions from the papers/scanners.
Or, if they really want them more limited than that, instead of all regular contact missions...<pausing to put on personal force field>....perhaps make them have a chance of dropping for doing a mission in a PvP zone. Those PvP zone missions already drop rare salvage. Just give them a chance to drop either salvage or a recipe.
This wouldn't force anyone into PvP, it would just give them a little bit of risk getting to the mission and back (if they can't do it in 30 seconds) for the greater reward it would provide.
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Itd make them more popular again since after they effectively yanked the Bonus for them, and implemented Scanners/Newspapers, theres no reason to fight Arachnos/Longbow in the PvP zone.
Fight 2 Very strong NPC groups for almost no bonus, or go clear scanners for the same effort and less risk?
I like this idea. Its not tied to PvP except to get to a mission, which many *can* do within the 30 seconds.
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but when the rubber actually hits the road, how much difference is there between a story arc and a task force? They are both nothing more or less than a sequence of missions.
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Well, not quite. Task Forces are indefinitely repeatable (which is good) from broadly-available contacts (good), and they auto-exemp you to a proper level (also good), but they all require a certain minimum number of players (not good), and most end with an irreducible AV or Monster that few ATs or players can solo (bad).
At least until you get into the later 30s and 40s, where Arcs are really long, but the AVs in story arcs can be demoted to more-manageable EBs. The biggest difference is that TFs are repeatable for anyone, while Arcs can be out-leveled and cannot be repeated.
IF the City designers insist on Story Arc completion being Pool B, then I maintain that we must have some way for out-leveled characters to revisit those arcs. Suppose an out-leveled character (or 50) can visit any Arc-owning Contact and be offered their Story Arc as a sort of mini-TF? While running those missions, you're auto-exemped to the highest in-range level, like a TF. Same for teammates. You can't run other missions until Arc completion, again like a TF (though you can still Quit).
It isn't a perfect system, and running old Arcs in-the-style-of small TFs might be a complicated feature for which there's no time. However, I think it would completely solve the "Pool B" problem by giving anyone the ability to revisit old arcs, even for contacts they weren't originally offered. Badgers and completionist players would love it. It would also be like instantly being given a few dozen "new" little Task Forces to run with a big bonus ... no minimum team size. Hey, you guys want to run the Freakshow War mini-TF tomorrow evening? It's the best way to get the Tank Swiper Shoulder Pads salvage and recipe we need for that invention. And so on.
Bonus, if you chose to run some of your out-leveled arcs from Hollows, Striga, Croa, or Fault, then you have a way to get fun things you may have missed along the way ... the Wolf Whistle, Talshak, Rune of Warding, Wedding Band, Yin Store, Ernesto Hess, Geas of the Kind Ones, and so on. Think of it as a partial solution to the "need new content at 50" problem: allowing those 50s to replay old Story Arcs they missed, and solving the problem of how to get invention formula rewards at the same time.
Old Story Arcs = Mini Task Force. Make it happen! 
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
http://uk.boards.cityofheroes.com/sh...229#Post793229
The uk Devs are better than the us devs, they actualy have a sense of humor and 90 percent of thier posts dont involve deleting and locking threads.
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
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I am listening to your ideas, but a Flashback system is simply not something we can implement in a timeframe you would all be happy with.
Instead we are looking into other options to get you the Pool B choice so level 50s don't feel gimped.
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Why not give us a drop for every souvenior we have?