A philosophical discussion...

Some years ago, I created a character called Facade, who possessed the power to alter his physical attributes in any way he could concieve of. He could be older, younger, fatter, thinner, taller, male, female - even alien (as long as he remains basically humanoid). He could be stronger (by increasing the density and elasticity of the tissues in his muscles, bones and so on), he could fly (by rearranging his mass to provide wings of sufficient size to support his mass and rearranging his muscles to use them), and so on. The only limit was his ability to figure out how a given effect would work, biologically. I created him as a character who would interact with the Marvel universe, an ally of the X-Men and a former foe who nearly defeated the Avengers (only Thor was able to stand up to him). I recently came up with this discussion scenario. I will write it out and leave the ending open for everyone to comment on.

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Passing unseen and unheard over Westchester county on feathered wings, Facade descended slowly toward the home of his old friends, the X-Men. Landing lightly on the back lawn, he activated his powers and changed the organization of his body, incorporating the wings back into himself as he pulled a shirt on.

The door to the mansion opened, and the X-Men's leader, Cyclops, strode out with a smile on his lean face.

"Facade!" said the X-Man, holding out a hand, "It's been ages, how have you been?"

"Pretty good, Slim."

Cyclops chuckled. "Boy, it's been a long time since anyone called me that. What brings you to the America? Tired of the snow up there in the Great White North?"

"You know me, Scotty, cold doesn't affect me anymore." Facade's face was grim, though, and Cyclops' brow furrowed with concern.

"Business call, then?"

"I have to see the Professor, Scott. It's important"


Cyclops led Facade into the mansion and to the study of Charles Xavier, the X-Men's founder. Turning his wheelchair as the two men entered his study, Xavier smiled to see an old friend.

"Well, now this is a pleasant surprise!" said Xavier.

"You may not think so, Charles." Cyclops turned and left, patting Facade on the shoulder and assuring him they would talk together later. I have a problem, and I need to talk to you about it."

Xavier's look darkened and his eyes narrowed. "You never ask anyone for advice. I shudder to imagine a problem that would bring you to me."

"I'm not looking for advice, really. I need to ask you a question." Facade settled into a chair opposite the Professor and continued, "You know how my powers work, Charles. I can do anything I can figure out the mechanics of. Things I can't figure out, I can't do. That's why I could never duplicate Magneto's powers or Scott's Optic Blasts, or your Telepathy. I just didn't know how they worked."

"But something's changed," said Xavier, "You've learned how to do them now?"

"I began by examining the way the brain works. Transmitters in the brain send electrical impulses to receptors in the brain to generate the process of thought. By increasing the sensitivity of my receptors, I learned to 'hear' the thoughts of people around me."

"Telepathy..."

"Of a sort. As I have experimented with it, I've grown more and more powerful. I'm not nearly as strong as you, but I've learned to do everything you can do. I can read and transmit thoughts, and I can change people's minds."

Facade leaned forward, his eyes narrowing. "Charles, I can make people think and do anything I want them to. I can take away hate and bigotry. I can remove fear and the stupidity of man. I can change the WORLD, Charles. I can make Earth a Utopia."

"And that is your problem?

"Not exactly. It would take me quite some time, but I can do it. You can do it overnight. You're the most powerful telepath on the planet. You could have done it at any time." Facade looked thoughtful as he stood and strode around the room. "My question is, why haven't you? I mean, you could take away the unreasoning hatred and fear that haunts all mutants, yet you haven't. Why? I need to be convinced, Charles, because I frankly can't see any reason NOT to go ahead and do this. Tell me there's some good reason that you haven't done this already."

Xavier regarded his friend as if seeing him for the first time. "Facade..." he began, carefully.



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There you have it. A moral dilemma. How do you think Xavier would respond? How would you respond? This is just a discussion, mind you, so let's try to keep it fun, but thoughtful.

(what can I say, I'm a philosophy major...)

*scratches chin*

The whole berth of human emotions, everything under the rainbow from anger to love, is what makes us human. I firmly believe that, to be human, you need to experience what is intended, even if that means having to kill someone. *cough* I mean, cmon, doesn't everybody have that notion sometimes? Most of us just grasp the concept of consequence and don't ahead with it, afterall. For Facade to do such a deed, I would think, he could possibly 'wipe out' the human race.

I hope that made sense, cause it certainly does in my head... =)

X-Files dealt with this when Mulder was trying to wish for world peace. Scully said that maybe the point to living is to help each other achieve such a lofty goal, not have it thrust upon us by some mythical entity.

Throughout our history, we have been provided works of fiction that warn us of what happens when such quick-fixes are employed. The results never end well, and our world, as a whole, does not learn from failure.

Besides, if everything's been taken care of for us, what, then, becomes the point of living?

"The freedom to choose, to feel and think what we wish, is what makes us human. It's what makes us who we are," Xavier continued. "You're essentially asking me why I don't take away everyone's right to feel and think whatever they choose to. My answer is that doing so would undermine the very foundation of human individuality."

Facade paced the room, frustration creasing his face, "And you think that's more important than the lives of innocents, murdered because of unreasoning hate and fear?"

Facade sat across from the Professor again, and leaned forward in his chair. "I'm not talking about taking away all their thoughts, just editing them a little so they don't feel unreasoning hate, bigotry and anger. Everyone would be the same as they are now, they just wouldn't hate anyone without reason. Crime would virtually disappear. Isn't that worth the loss of that freedom of choice you're defending? Isn't it worth taking away the freedom to hate?"

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(nice posts by the way, good to see someone getting into it)

He essentially wants to turn the world into a gigantic ant colony. Yes, we'd all be individuals in his version of an ant colony world, but every one of our thoughts is processed, censored, edited, and regurgitated back into our heads by a central consciousness, i.e. Facade.

Such a thing is tyranny, and is quite dangerous. Nevermind the fact that most tyrannies never last much longer than their progenitors, how long would it take for him to start experimenting with his capabilities? How long before even he abuses that power? How long until someone outside the planet discovers what is going on and starts manipulating him?

Worse, yet, what happens if he starts to discover what he'd call "aberrant behavior," people who don't submit to his will because of natural resistance (they could be psychic mutants themselves) or physical oddities (perhaps their brains are wrinkled in such a way that neural pathways are blocked that allow for psychic intervention). In an ant colony or bee hive, such individuals are simply executed. Such individuals are a threat to the good of the community... the same would just as easily go for a human society treated the same way. Would Facade deal with them the same way as an insect Queen?

I won't argue that there can't be such a thing as a beneficial tyranny, as throughout our history, the reasons why such governments have taken power is largely because they did something right. Whether it was better education, health care, ample employment... I consider these moments to be glimmers of the dream of a perfect government, one that doesn't need to change because it worked from the start. This is probably what Facade is trying to make, a ruling process that works off the successes of the past and learns from history's failures right from the beginning. However, even with such lofty goals in mind, one must remember that a plan will change when the first brick is laid down, the first nail driven in, and the first wall is erected. The plan keeps changing for every accomplishment and the consequences thereof. Multiply the fact that he's altering the minds of over six billion people... Do you think this character is capable of working out the compensations?

"Such a thing is tyranny, Facade," replied Xavier, " Nevermind the fact that most tyrannies never last much longer than their progenitors, how long would it take for you to start experimenting with your capabilities? How long before even you abuse your power?"

Facade looked thoughtful. "Power corrupts, is that it? I'm one of the most powerful beings on the whole planet, Charles, and I haven't been corrupted."

"You once nearly defeated the Avengers because someone found a way to manipulate you into attacking friends. Doctor Doom, I believe," Xavier said softly. "Are you so arrogant that you imagine it couldn't happen again? There are many tremendous powers in the universe, my friend. What if you were manipulated again by someone or something beyond your control? And what of those you cannot influence with your power? People like me, Jean and others? People who are simply immune to psionic control (there are a few, you know)? What becomes of them?"

Facade sat back in his chair, his lips pursed in thought as Xavier went on. "I understand the tempatation you are feeling now, but you must understand the slippery slope you would be setting your feet upon. However noble your intent, you would inevitably cause more harm than good."

A little bit of necroposting, but I recently picked up the Avengers Illuminati collection and noticed Xavier actually answers this for Tony Stark...

I'm not at home now, I'll post his rationale when I get home.

I think I mostly agree with Mr. Grey here. I'm a skeptic of the idea of utopia for many of the reasons he cites.

Basically it sounds like Facade wants to create a social monoculture which, while being internally stable, is very fragile in the face of any change. If there is anything that biology tells us, monocultures are dangerous when they predominate. Diversity is strength. The more diverse an ecosystem is the better it can cope with surprise and change.

And I think the same is true in human societies. In a culture there needs to be very broad commonalities but aside from that individuals and groups within that culture have a lot of leeway in order for that culture to be vibrant and strong. Monocultures give us things like the Tasmanians or the Amish, which may be stable under special circumstances or may be swiftly wiped up by invaders.

I think utopia is a nice enough idea, something to be strived for, but I don't think it will ever be reached. And my guess is that Chuck Xavier long ago realized this.

From the Illuminati:

X: I do not reach into people's minds and change them.

X: If I did, mutants would be the dominant social and political force on the planet. My students would not be hunted and despised by society for the crime of being different. Mutant would be the norm.

X: The human mind is not a computer. You can't just turn it on and off and type in and tell it exactly what to do.

Reed: Why not?

X: because it's an organism. It's an organism designed to produce free will. It remembers what it is and how it got to where it is. Sure, I could suggest a small thing, like having someone not see me as I walk by, but...

X: If I reached into your brain and told you to wear a dress and call yourself "Sally"--yes you would do it. But eventually, over time, your mind would find a way to work against that which, in your case, it knew to be false.

X: And if it couldn't... it might find a way to do something to hurt you or others... It would react.

X: Plus--if I did do this... there's a moral line that is being crossed that we could not come back from.


Based on this dialogue, it would seem Xavier has thought of doing what Facade has suggested, and has discovered that it wouldn't work for the reasons he outlines.

Kind of interesting!

Anyone who does not understand why it's a bad idea already, is never going to understand why it's a bad idea. No amount of argument will convince them. Frankly, it's a value judgement: which is more important, a perfect society or free will? Our world has, in many ways, already decided that it would prefer the perfect society.

Charles should zap Fascade's brain, eliminating his telepathic abilty and, preferably, rendering him a cabbage. He's a terrible character, the kind of thing your average 10 year-old makes up because he has to have the best there is. For that reason alone, Charles should ensure that he never gets to carry out his diabolical plans. Let's face it, all the other Marvel heroes would be happy to see the back of him.

"They will try again. Somewhere, sometime, someone will think that they can make people... better.

I aim to misbehave."

-Mal Raynolds, Serenity

A tree, when grown in space, is a brittle, fragile thing that will not grow to its full potential. Removing stress and the opportunity for growth before an organism is designed to thrive in that environment would destroy the future of the organism.

We don't have to Like this, but we must respect it as ultimately a positive force until such time as organisms are ready to thrive without it.

And remember, some of the best innovations of our collective experience have come from or as a response to... mistakes... wrong-headed-ness... and even sometimes hate, as much as those created for peaceful purposes have been misused for something other than.

With me I have to say that if everyone agreed and no one does anything that would anger another well...

We still be obaying our elders and no one would have created Rock and Roll. No one would have figured out how to harness fire.

Thought our darkside does do great harm. With out the drive of our darkness we won't press the limits. The whole Serenity/Firefly T.V. show was about how our darkness drives us. Cristapher Columbus sailed across the Atlantic searching for a way to get to the Indies. Would he have done so with out greed? Would the finding of the Americas happen if the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks never happened and made the land route to Indies and China hazardous?

Would we have landed on the moon if our Egos didn't drive the U.S. to have a space race with U.S.S.R?

By what grounds do we consider our darkness to much? We might have the power but do we have the wisdom to harness that power to remove take away the unreasoning hatred and fear that haunts all of Mutant and mankind. How do I know what is correct when I am flawed with my own Fear and Hate?

It's our Darkness that drives us forward it's our Light that wants to bring friends along.

Personally I'm a firm believer the very first Virtue was Disobedience.

A bit of personal history here my father was an abuser but in his MIND he thought he was doing what was right. It wasn't Hate or Fear it was a twisted view of Right and Wrong. So by doing what he thought was right he was doing a great evil. Can changing peoples minds to make them see the world with out the dark emotions fix that flaw as well? How many pedophiles say they "LOVE" there victims? Are we going to Edit Love now because some people are twisted. Do we edit Lust in order to stop people from having one night stands so there wouldn't be any dead beat fathers or single teenage mothers?

War is a terrible thing.
Charles Xavier himself said there were good aspects too.
"If it wasn't for the second world was and the technological race it caused, mankind would never have developed the warp drive and met the Vulcans, an act that unified mankind and brought peace like no event previously."
It was to a holodeck character from a 1930's time frame though, so he got some odd looks.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.'
Benjamin Franklin

I'm guilty of being a Mary Sue with many of my alts also. Such is life.

If I recall right there's a fair few of those, I think one of them is called 'Planet X' or some such.

Anyway back ontopic, is a perfect world worth sacrificing humanity for? After all that is what was suggested, our uniqness and individualty make us what we are after all, not to mention that power corrupts, so would total power over all of humanity in the hands of one man eally a good thing? One man who has only his own views, no one to check them, no one to soundboard of, no one to say 'Hang on mate don't you think that's a bit silly'.

So in the end I don't think it's worth it or a good idea, far too much room for abuse, and of course he doesn't by default know what's best for everyone, no one person can, a good question would be how -he- would like to live in a world he describes only with someone else at the helm.

I don't think Humanity could ever accept a perfect world...to use one of the lesser used quotes from the Matrix.