My suggestion for change (given the data) would be to make it mirror the energy absorbtion. (auto hit and rchg included)
That way:
Consume has 15 endx gain + damage
Energy absorb has 15 endx gain + defense
Power sink has 15 endx gain + 10 endx gain
Energy drains has 15 endx gain + 10 endx gain
I did the 15 + 10 to show a point... That each has a base 15.. and a secondary effect that mirrors the set... EA + Elec = endurance bonus... Ice = defense bonus; Fire = damage bonus.
So consume would have the same damage, be an auto hit, and have a 60 recharge, with a 15% endurance gain. Which all seems balanced to me.
Disappointing news, but not unexpected. <thinks about how long Temperature Protection has remained the same>
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Something tells me you've been getting way too many PMs on this 
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That, and I'm getting cranky in my dottage. :P
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But now that you've come out and said, "no way, at this time, ya damn, dirty apes!!!" we can sit back and relax about it.
Then you can datamine and fix it at your leisure. (liesure?... nope... leisure. Stupid i before e except after c... and in words like leisure...)
Well played.
Be well, people of CoH.
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That, and I'm getting cranky in my dottage. :P
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throw more dots!
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DOT FTW!!!
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higher level enemies = less end drained. The last one is the most frustrating part for me.
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I believe that's true for all endurance drains.
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Castle told us this is not the case. Originally he thought so too, but came back with a correction.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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My suggestion for change (given the data) would be to make it mirror the energy absorbtion. (auto hit and rchg included)
That way:
Consume has 15 endx gain + damage
Energy absorb has 15 endx gain + defense
Power sink has 15 endx gain + 10 endx gain
Energy drains has 15 endx gain + 10 endx gain
I did the 15 + 10 to show a point... That each has a base 15.. and a secondary effect that mirrors the set... EA + Elec = endurance bonus... Ice = defense bonus; Fire = damage bonus.
So consume would have the same damage, be an auto hit, and have a 60 recharge, with a 15% endurance gain. Which all seems balanced to me.
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/signed
I have no problem with that in of itself, except for a couple of things.
I wonder if they will give an auto hit damage - even if it is minor. Would the damage dealt be balaned with other other secondary effects from the comparible powers?
What about Dark Consumption? It has damage, accuracy debuff, and end gain.
Considering this, if Consume were changed like you suggest, would the various power combintations it is available with be given a distinct advantage the devs want to avoid?
Also, if Consume were changed like you suggest, Dark Consumption should also certainly be looked into.
Then there are sets they may be planning behind the scenes have have either Consume or DC in them and any changes made would have to take them into consideration as well.
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Something tells me you've been getting way too many PMs on this
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That, and I'm getting cranky in my dottage. :P
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Who's agititating my dots? You agitating my dots? *eat's cake*
I would consider dark consumption in a different class as it is in a assault and not a defense set. However, if it were to be included... I would say remove the damage or thdb. (i would go with damage)
Burn & Bonfire... if they are not auto hits, then make the damage in consume have whatever type of to hit check and accuracy they have. You could also make the damage in consume something like a 80% chance at 5 ticks (with all 5 adding up to current damage).
I donot see consume over powering fire as of now with any combo. Personally even with this change I still perfer ice.
The best improvement I see is a EM/Fire brute... and even here I still think a EM/Elec does better.
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TY for the post. To me this leads me to be optimistic that once indeed you do get the data points, there is a possibility we can expect to hear some good news.
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It could just as easily be determined that Power Sink, Energy Absorption, Energy Drain, etc. are all performing above their desired level and Consume is the correct performance level. I could easily make that arguement based on my experiences with my EA brute, my Ice Tank, and my friends experience with his /Electric blaster. Or they may decide to treat this like they did Burn. They might move them all to a 120 second recharge (in addition to possibly altering other characteristics such as mob level affecting amount drained), so it would be a buff for Consume and a nerf to the other powers.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Or they may decide to treat this like they did Burn. They might move them all to a 120 second recharge
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Don't even suggest such an attrocity 
Well, at least he's going to look at it. I can respect "too busy with Inventions" as an answer, there's only so many hours in a day. I'm almost certain that datamining will definitively prove how awful Consume really is, so I say take all the time you need to. It's probably better to focus on making sure Inventions don't break the game right now anyway.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
No real reply - I'm just entranced by your avatar.
1!
Cut a hole in the box!
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Can we fix Consume now that we're normalizing timers?
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There will be NO CHANGES to Consume at this time. Why? There are some essential datapoints I need to confirm which I have not had the opportunity to do yet. I *should* get my hands on the raw data after the Invention system hits.
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This is why I keep bothering Castle about Martial Arts and Super Reflexes: it adds some diversity to his complaint box.
Consume's recharge is wrong, though.
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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Yeah, it works fine for me, but only because I have Stamina, Conserve Power, and Hasten. If I relied on only Consume, or even on only Stamina and Consume, I'd be an END-less sap of a Tank. I'd say put it to 100-120 seconds, and leave it at that.
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After you get the data, I have one of 2 suggestions for fixes to this power.
Others have requested, change this to mirror powersink, at least a bit closer. The damage dealth is an extemely minor, even with damage capped (same goes for Dark Melee's Dark Consumption).
Understandibly, since all powers cannot exist in a vacuum and have to consider all their possible build combinations for balance, Consume (and therefore, Dark Consumption) cannot be make equal to Powersink.
Consider these 2 possibilities, keep the power as is, but add in a pulsing dot-aura that does damage and and drains endurance, siphoning it to the user, for a duration of 60 seconds. This will give the upfront end boost, add some damage, and allow for continued end drain for a short time.
Or, reduce the recharge to 90, remove the to-hit check and damage. Change the amount of endurance gained for the first target hit, and a decreased amount for additional targets, the total of which is the same as it is now. Also add a self-buff to end drain resistance for 25 seconds. End mods placed not only increase the endurance gained on a drain, but also increase the end drain resistance (if possible).
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I wouldn't mind seeing consume have its recharge dropped by a lot. Lessen the amount of endurance it gives back to make up for the quicker recharge. Drop the damage out completely and make it kind of a reverse of Siphon Power. The user gets +25% damage and all enemies hit by it get their damage dropped by 25%.
This would keep consume from becoming a clone of a power in a different set while at the same time increasing the damage mitigation and output of the Fire set.
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Something tells me you've been getting way too many PMs on this
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That, and I'm getting cranky in my dottage. :P
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And here I thought I was being original with that PM...
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Can we fix Consume now that we're normalizing timers?
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There will be NO CHANGES to Consume at this time. Why? There are some essential datapoints I need to confirm which I have not had the opportunity to do yet. I *should* get my hands on the raw data after the Invention system hits.
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Thanks for the reply. I really don't understand why one endurance drain has to have 3x the recharge of every single other endurance drain that exist in armor sets, but I'm willing to be patient until after Inventions come out.
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We have to be careful what we ask for, though. Look exactly how they "normalized" burn. Sure, fire tankers got a buff, but what happened to other burns?
Thats what the entire community may get out of Consume Vs Energy Leach normalization.
Oooh, can we reduce the recharge time for Dark Consumtpion in the Dark Mastery APP for Defenders, too?
I mean, it's great and all, but the recharge is 4 minutes.
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Oooh, can we reduce the recharge time for Dark Consumtpion in the Dark Mastery APP for Defenders, too?
I mean, it's great and all, but the recharge is 4 minutes.
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By the time it recharges, I've forgotten I have it!
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Thats what the entire community may get out of Consume Vs Energy Leach normalization.
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While that's never kind of result I want, that's not going to stop me from questioning when powers that perform similarly have radical imbalances in performance (though I understand there are mechanical differences in Consume and DC and the other drains. However, the net function of those other powers makes them superior in every way, and I don't see set-wide balance considerations suggesting Consume should underperform that much in its apparently primary function. (That doesn't mean they aren't there, but they'd have to be explained to me.)
I don't want my Brute Burn nerfed, but I've not been afraid to ask the question about Tanker Burn being so much longer to recharge. I'm not cool with balance by "these guys get shafted but I've got it good".
All that said, I will be pretty shocked if the response is a nerf to the other drain powers. They're pretty pervasive. It's not inconceivable, but damn if someone isn't asleep at the helm if something doled out as much as Power Sink and its cousins is considered overpowered.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Oooh, can we reduce the recharge time for Dark Consumtpion in the Dark Mastery APP for Defenders, too?
I mean, it's great and all, but the recharge is 4 minutes.
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By the time it recharges, I've forgotten I have it!
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You realize you actually made out like bandits there, right? The normal rule of thumb for epic power recharges is double standard and that one is 133% standard. (Normal DC recharge is 180s or 3 mins.)
Of course, if Consume was brought down (I'd be pretty happy with 90 or 120s), I would hope DC would come down also and the Defender EPP version should then come down proporionally.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Oooh, can we reduce the recharge time for Dark Consumtpion in the Dark Mastery APP for Defenders, too?
I mean, it's great and all, but the recharge is 4 minutes.
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By the time it recharges, I've forgotten I have it!
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You realize you actually made out like bandits there, right? The normal rule of thumb for epic power recharges is double standard and that one is 133% standard. (Normal DC recharge is 180s or 3 mins.)
Of course, if Consume was brought down (I'd be pretty happy with 90 or 120s), I would hope DC would come down also and the Defender EPP version should then come down proporionally.
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And if for some reason they decide to normalize and put powersink up to a minute, the PPPs that have powersink will double up to 2 minutes 
Or maybe they'll forget about those powersinks and for a few patches they'll be exactly the same.
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Oooh, can we reduce the recharge time for Dark Consumtpion in the Dark Mastery APP for Defenders, too?
I mean, it's great and all, but the recharge is 4 minutes.
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By the time it recharges, I've forgotten I have it!
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You realize you actually made out like bandits there, right? The normal rule of thumb for epic power recharges is double standard and that one is 133% standard. (Normal DC recharge is 180s or 3 mins.)
Of course, if Consume was brought down (I'd be pretty happy with 90 or 120s), I would hope DC would come down also and the Defender EPP version should then come down proporionally.
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Weren't we trying to lower Consume a little so it balances along with the other End Recharge powers? Especially due to the fact that that's basically all it does, no debuffs or anything.
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Consume and Dark Consumption have always been overly long on the recharge
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Everyone wants to go to heaven, nobody wants to die.
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