Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Shields
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:02 in Developers' Corner
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Lightning Field: I've never been fond of this style of power in an armor set and I often skip them, but I know other people who love 'em, so... no change to the power.
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It is likely you will be in the very small minority of brute players in skipping this type of power (although I'll be there with you) because your damage toggle is your prime means of getting and keeping aggro in teams. Without the damage toggle, you are a poor "tank" in teams - but on the other hand, you won't be taking near as much aggro or damage and imo a selfheal is a lot less of a must-have.
You can expect little change to Grounded. Compared to just about everyone else's passives in brute world, it's pretty damn good. Same goes for Lightning Reflexes. By the way Lightning Reflexes is in fact described as providing Slow resist (usually "Slow" means both -recharge and -runspeed).
I would like to see exactly what the tier 9 does before entertaining changes to it. "EMP pulse"? I suspect it's sort of like the Blaster electric epic EMP, which is actually pretty damn nice except for the horrible recharge. A PBAOE "large area" disorient (16 targets) that does damage to "robots". I would like to hear from someone who's actually used the Brute power.
Resist/defense powers that also provide some status resist or other are pretty well in the minority.
I agree with the fairly general consensus that having both Conserve Power and Power Sink is redundant. I also agree that of the two, Conserve Power makes sense to be the one to drop were a power to be dropped. As far as Quick Recovery, however, I seem to remember _Castle_ saying something some time back about how Brutes would never get Regen as a secondary, specifically because of Quick Recovery enabling them to never having to stop. It'd be brokenly powerful. Unfortunately, my Search Fu is failing me and I can't seem to find the thread where he said this (if anyone else wants to try, be my guest). Even if I am completely misremembering that thread, I think the point still stands that it would be too powerful. Sure, it could enable people to not take the fitness line, but then you'll have people who take it AND the fitness line and be disgustingly powerful as a result. So I don't see that happening personally.
I also don't see any sort of Dull Pain or Reconstruction/Healing Flames type power happening (and for reference, I really like the suggested name of Defibrillation, which could work either as a self heal or as a self rez, honestly), as much as that is the hole of the set that I personally would most like filled. Which is why the minor regeneration increase that a few people have proposed has seemed to make the most sense to me. Since there have been a number of people (may not be all, may not be most) that have said that they don't like the passive Grounded since the amount it give isn't really much in comparison to the other powers, it makes the most sense to me to add it to that power to make it a bit more attractive to those who may skip it.
As far as the immobilization and knockback holes, technically we do have access to protection from those. As a few others have pointed out, we get protection to those in our level 38 power, Power Surge. Mind you, that doesn't help for the first 37 levels, and that doesn't help in the downtime while it's recharging. And speaking as someone who has only gotten two characters to level 30, and only one character to 40, basing the argument against plugging those holes on the level 38 power is distasteful to me. With that being said, all sets are balanced as a whole not by individual powers, so as a result we must take that power into account when discussing balance.
Oh and by the way, I just want to say thank you and congrats to each of you who have worked to get this thread back on track. It took some doing, but good job. Lets keep it this way 
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The Stalker Dark Armor set has a passive, "Shadow Dweller", which has Immobilize protection and +Perception, which is pretty cool for a passive, it might have more as well, but I can't recall (Maybe I'll double check, adn Edit later).
So, its not unprecedented, at least.
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Yeah that's really a pretty nice one.
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Add the -recovery lightning field.
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I don't think they will ever do this with any toggle power. Come to think of it I can't think of any AOE powers that apply -recovery.
Oops, Short Circuit. That's the only one I can think of though.
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Some strange perceptions of how people have reacted this set. I can't recall anyone besides just Zen_Concern who is actually okay with no knockback protection. Almost no time has been spent defending the holes in the set or pretending they're not there; some number of people have simply gotten over it, because it's fixable and the set is pretty interesting.
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My reference to dissent was more to the point of people disagreeing to what extent these things can be worked around or matter, than "the set is perfect as is". Obviously even I don't think that (though the lack of KB protection in and of itself isn't my main problem with it).
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If you post ideas in a thread like this and you don't see players e.g. me going wild over it - so what? I'm not on the dev team, what do you care if I'm impressed with your idea?
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I don't care if you're impressed, per se, but I'd like to know if anyone feels the changes sufficiently address their problems with the set that it'd be worth championing.
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If you have a real suggestion for the set you would like to get noticed, your best bet is probably to PM someone who can do something with it, or email.
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I'd like to see a little more back and forth on it in general as well as having some more time to test it first, but otherwise, I'm already there with this idea. I'd hate for some good suggestions to get lost in the arguments, so I'll probably try to sum up the various suggestions in just this fashion.
One drawback of the internet is how it has trained so many people to think that one day is a long time.
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Lightning Field: I've never been fond of this style of power in an armor set and I often skip them, but I know other people who love 'em, so... no change to the power.
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It is likely you will be in the very small minority of brute players in skipping this type of power (although I'll be there with you) because your damage toggle is your prime means of getting and keeping aggro in teams.
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Aye, that'd be why I'm all in favor of leaving it as is. I know a lot of people play Brutes as at least Tank Lite, so overall I'm sure it's more attractive with it in, even if I wouldn't personally miss it.
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I would like to see exactly what the tier 9 does before entertaining changes to it.
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Aye, I would too, though getting to 38 isn't likely to happen for me unless they do end up handing out a level bump.
So my comments on it have to go merely by description and comparison to what I know of things with similar description. The impression I've gotten based on that is that it's something like a cross between Unstoppable and, say, the EM Pulse of the Corrupter Rad set (or insert other similar power here), but obviously until I see it in action I can't suggest anything other than tentatively.
So, anyone managed to get an */Elec to 38 yet? Or who thinks they will before too long?
One drawback of the internet is how it has trained so many people to think that one day is a long time.
I've found 2 very serious bugs with this power set
1- The electric animation for the second shield power (I believe it was Conductive Shield) causes SERIOUS graphical lag inside cave missions for some reason. The lag happens every single time at the end of the electric animation loop.
2- If you do a bind like '/bind z "powexec_name Sprint"' and use the bind you can no longer turn off your toggles by clicking them with the mouse. For some reason a single click sends a double click when you try to click off a toggle. So the toggle comes right back on once it recharges. Resetting all your binds seems to make the bug go away, but every bind I tried triggered this bug.
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Anyway, the only ones you need to worry about reading your suggestions are the Devs, not us. If they saw your idea and think it's good, then great. If not, then bummer. Doesn't matter much what we think.
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Actually, it does. Because the issue here is: some largish percentage of people playing the set feel certain lacks make the set sub-par in performance. Seeing a suggestion about how to improve performance does give the devs some feedback, but seeing how the players who specifically feel a lack in the set react to that suggestion is greatly more valuable in determining if it would actually address their concerns.
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If they added a heal to this set I can guarentee it wouldmean reducing the resistance numbers. The best thing I have seen suggested it adding a regen boost. Maybe 100% enhanceable or just doing 150% unenhanceable. Even if they added health regen I think they would cut something slightly. The fact that this set has a resistance to regen rate debuff however makes me kinda doubt they would.
Adding immob to grounded which the way it stands now most people will skip. Or adding regen rate boost to grounded would not only make it more appealing for most would also make people feel better about the set overall.
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If they added a heal to this set I can guarentee it wouldmean reducing the resistance numbers. The best thing I have seen suggested it adding a regen boost. Maybe 100% enhanceable or just doing 150% unenhanceable. Even if they added health regen I think they would cut something slightly. The fact that this set has a resistance to regen rate debuff however makes me kinda doubt they would.
Adding immob to grounded which the way it stands now most people will skip. Or adding regen rate boost to grounded would not only make it more appealing for most would also make people feel better about the set overall.
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Honestly, I think you're right, if they do add a self heal, they probably would need to reduce the resistance levels. And personally, as much as a self heal would be nice, I like the resistance levels where they are more.
As for the regen boost, while I understand that +100% is the same that Rooted from Stone has, Fast Healing from the Regen set only has +75%, so I can't imagine them going even as high as +75% if they add it to Grounded. My reasoning is that Rooted is a toggle so it can have higher numbers, but Fast Healing and Grounded are both passives so the numbers should be less and Fast Healing ONLY does +regen rate, while Grounded does other things as well.
Except you are comparing it to a level 1 power. I know what you are saying but regen gets a lot of powers that combine to massively boost the regen of the set. Plus regen has 2 heals, dull pain being a hp booster. Rooted is boosted regen plus the set has a version of dull pain. Also as I stated, if they did boost it I think they would still reduce something.
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I agree with the fairly general consensus that having both Conserve Power and Power Sink is redundant. I also agree that of the two, Conserve Power makes sense to be the one to drop were a power to be dropped. As far as Quick Recovery, however, I seem to remember _Castle_ saying something some time back about how Brutes would never get Regen as a secondary, specifically because of Quick Recovery enabling them to never having to stop. It'd be brokenly powerful.
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I don't think that it would be brokenly powerful, any more than having CP running 90 seconds in any given 3.5 minutes is brokenly powerful (Hasten + Lightning Reflexes), or having a Scrapper travel with an Emp with RA running 90 seconds in any given 3 minutes (Hasten, and a much bigger boost to Stamina to begin with). I mean, your only downside with those two powers is that you might have to wait a couple minutes to get their benefit again, which for anyone patient isn't a downside at all. (My Fury drops by the time I hit the next group of mobs most of the time anyhow, so that's not an issue for me.)
But... assuming the devs disagree, I'd at least still want to switch Power Sink with CP. Or ask for a QR-lite, with 75% effectiveness.
One drawback of the internet is how it has trained so many people to think that one day is a long time.
Not replying to anyone in particular, but I want to make an arguement for having two endurance reduction/buff powers in one set.
I have noticed that many people seem to consider Conserve power redundant when a set already has Energy Drain or Power Sink.
Personaly, as a Stone/EA, I use both. I have an end reduction slotted in every attack and armor. I have every attack from the Stone Primary. I run out of endurance in combat even with Energy Drain three slotted for recharge and slotted with two endurance modifications.
Basicaly, there are some set combinations that can use two endurance saving powers. I am hoping that Conserve Power will allow me to slot an extra damage or recharge in some of my powers instead of the endurance reduction.
Oh, I have stamina three slotted if that makes any difference.
I just wanted to put up some thoughts to keep in consideration.
I would also like to add that I utilize a Dark Armor scrapper. If I did not have Dark Regeneration the resistances of the set would not even come close to allowing me to survive in team combat. Spines/DA, I draw a bit of agro. I would literally die right after the alphastrike from the mob if I didn't have Dark Regeneration.
Considering that this set actually does not get all resistances, or complete mez protection, and that the resistances it does get are not particularly as high as is safe in large teams, there needs to be some way of increaseing the health or regeneration rate of this Brute Secondary.
I have a /EA brute now and when I get hit by Psi, it just cuts through to me right to the bone. If the set is going to be all about resisting everything without the benefit of a heal, it should actually resist everything.
Just my opinion.
Oh, and for a good spot to put a +regen power, one of the more intersting spots is Lightning Field. Basicaly, have it tick regen every time it hits the enemy. Something that would provide the same benefit as say rooted. Except that where a Stone Tank or Brute can regen health out of battle, an Elec Brute can only regen health while in battle. It would be really interesting if it scaled the regen similar to how Invul does. Which better fits the character concept.
Oh, one more thing. This set does not resist repel effects from what I have read. So it doesn't have all the unique resists. Another reason this set should not be hampered by the number of weaknesses that it has.
Good news on the end drain protection/slow resist powers.
I just did a quick test in Siren's Call with an electric armor brute (thanks Tech Wolf).
I used Transfusion from the kinetics line 3 slotted for end drain.
Base is ~39 end drained
with Static ONLY that was reduced to ~7 end drained.
That's a 80% reduction in the end drained from the toggle alone...I'd love to see what the toggle and passive can do.
With lightning reflexes the slow from one siphon speed was negligeable (I'd guess 15% slower), but I was informed multiple slows are noticable.
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I have noticed that many people seem to consider Conserve power redundant when a set already has Energy Drain or Power Sink.
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I just think it's redundant because the power is in Energy Armor already. Kinda takes away from the uniqueness of the set.
All of the extra utility powers should be unique to that particular set, IMO.
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I have noticed that many people seem to consider Conserve power redundant when a set already has Energy Drain or Power Sink.
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I just think it's redundant because the power is in Energy Armor already. Kinda takes away from the uniqueness of the set.
All of the extra utility powers should be unique to that particular set, IMO.
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Well, to keep the theme going, you would have to put Conserve power only in EA and add another power to the set, then take Energy Drain and put it in Electric Armor. That would make it match the blaster secondary sets for theme.
However, after giving EA both powers I don't see how they can't give both powers to Electric Armor. Also, I can see players taking either, or both depending on Primary. Dark Melee/Electric Armor may just want Conserve Power for instance. What primary set you look at can make a big difference in what a secondary needs or doesn't need.
Here is my biggest problem
Too many good powers. First time I've seen 2 sets and wanted EVERYTHING (sans taunt).
Too many holes
I'm having serious problems trying to figure out what 7 powers to drop out of my elec/elec to cover all my holes. (for stamina, hasten, aid self, and acrobatics).
This doesn't look like a beginner set to me. Some serious choices to be made. Fire it was easy. A lot of useles powers like ROTP and temp prot and burn and breath of fire. Electric... everything just looks so good 
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2- If you do a bind like '/bind z "powexec_name Sprint"' and use the bind you can no longer turn off your toggles by clicking them with the mouse. For some reason a single click sends a double click when you try to click off a toggle. So the toggle comes right back on once it recharges. Resetting all your binds seems to make the bug go away, but every bind I tried triggered this bug.
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I have seen something like this as well, and it appears that somehow the client is convinced that the Control key is being held down. I am not completely certain if it's just my keyboard has food in it, or if this is a bug - it does appear to be a bug to me though.
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That's a 80% reduction in the end drained from the toggle alone...I'd love to see what the toggle and passive can do.
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Then I am pretty confident that for endo drain at least, having both will be close enough to 100% that you won't be able to tell the difference.
All drains do 1/4 what they do in PvE when it translates to PvP
Short Circuit is a 35 point drain in PvE, yet only 9 pts in PvP. So that 39 is likely a 10, so the resist taking it to 7 sounds like a 30 percent resist.
Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.
Take a closer look at what was posted. Both numbers cited ARE pvp numbers (Transferrence drains more like 75 endo with 3 endmods in pvm).
PS: Short Circuit 3-slotted drains more like 70 endo in pvm.
Post deleted by VoodooGirl
... I think you missed? Wrong thread?
Hey Voodoo, I think you may have posted that in the wrong thread! D'oh!
Yeah, totally... this is what happens when you have TOO many tabbed windows.
Still testing around with brutes and electric shields 
How do I delete a post?
Some strange perceptions of how people have reacted this set. I can't recall anyone besides just Zen_Concern who is actually okay with no knockback protection. Almost no time has been spent defending the holes in the set or pretending they're not there; some number of people have simply gotten over it, because it's fixable and the set is pretty interesting.
If you post ideas in a thread like this and you don't see players e.g. me going wild over it - so what? I'm not on the dev team, what do you care if I'm impressed with your idea? And all these threads have gotten so long and trashed up with various people's personal forum fencing that to be completely honest, if I was on the dev team I'd stay the hell away from them, because they're annyoing as hell and as you imply, signal is totally drowned out by noise. After the 50th "Hey this set doesn't have knockback prot, ti si teh gimpz0r" post, I'm sure it gets pretty unpleasant to read if you're the guy that designed the set.
If you have a real suggestion for the set you would like to get noticed, your best bet is probably to PM someone who can do something with it, or email. As to who to contact, you might PM Cuppa or Cricket and find out, or just ask them if they can pass it along. I'm sure it would take some time, but your idea would be received in a completely different atmosphere from this alphabetical septic tank.