Yay, ten points for Sun for the Spider comment!
"I want to eat a swan. Is that wrong?"
"I'm flying free with my beautiful butterfly wings!" ~ Randy Marsh
So, just to make sure. I created my character way back in 2000, I had images of him already, but used City of Heroes to render him in a way I don't have the knowledge to do. Obviously I can't use images of City of Heroes to promote my character. But, I'm a junior in college, and a creative writing major, and I intend to write my series of short stories needed to graduate about my character, Spidon. Can I get in trouble for that? Even if I get it published? Otherwise, if I just deleted my character from the CoX servers, would that be enough to escape action against a character I created before the game existed?
[Edit] I'm basically in the same boat as mistformsquirrel. I made up a new backstory involving CoT and the Tsoo for City of Heroes, but I have a different backstory for my writings.
[Edit2] After going back and reading through this thread, if I change the core suit of my hero, but keep the name, can I then write about a Spidon who wears purple and green with jeans? Whereas the Spidon in City of Heroes wears red and black?
The Spidon I created turns into shadows and can use them to teleport. The Spidon in CoH can't make a portal to teleport through, he glows with a bright light. He also connects to the Netherworld, the Spidon in my stories does not. Is that enough, or is the mere fact that I used my character's name as an alias or username enough to get me in trouble?
Someone please let me know, I'd also hate to delete the Spidon in City of Heroes that I've been playing for 2 years.
I am not a redname, but here is my opinion anyway.
Technically you're screwed, but in practice you should be fine.
TECHNICALLY:
Assuming that Yumii was not legally protected before you clicked the 'enter Paragon City' button, you licensed Cryptic to use the character name Yumii as it represents a catgirl with a Katana, wearing the specific costumes you choose for her in the game.
Technically, if you then profit from Yumii (the katana wielding catgirl in those specific costumes), Cryptic has the right to legally shut you down and profit from her themselves.
Note that this does not give Cryptic the rights to all Katana-wielding catgirls. It especially does not give them the right to Katana-wielding catgirls named something other than Yumii, or who wear a costume not depicted on Cryptic's servers.
So, change the name in the novels, use none of Cryptic's backstory and you can have a legion of katana-wielding catgirls.
However, the rights to the specific combination of name and appearance do not go away once the character has been genericed or deleted. What goes away is Cryptic's liability. Once the character has been genericed or deleted, Cryptic has done their part to avoid ownership issues, and you can no longer sue them for using your character (assuming they don't continue using your character).
But if the character was never legally protected by you in the first place, you can't sue them for using it. You expressly gave them permission to use it.
IN PRACTICE:
If someone /petitions your character Yumii, and emails them a link to a published story about a Katana-wielding catgirl, it will be much cheaper and easier for Cryptic to generic the character than to hire a lawyer to hit the publishing company with a Cease and Desist.
In fact, they could choose to be nice and allow the fan use of their property to continue, basically ignoring the issue.
If, years later, the character Yumii the katana-wielding catgirl starts to make millions of dollars, it is unlikely (but possible) that anyone is even going to remember that she started in CoX (don't say so in interviews) and come after you for money.
I seriously doubt if Cryptic has legions of lawyer-monkeys scanning the media for any character that might have come from their game, then scouring the servers (over 17 million characters have been created) for matches.
However, if you did say that the character came from CoX originally, and the character were such a cash cow it was worthwhile, they would have the right to ask you for money. Even if the character had long been deleted by then.
Again, to avoid even this remote and unlikely possibility: In your fiction, use a name other than Yumii. You already stated she looks different from the CoX version, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Finally, about the name:
I think Yumii is a common Japanese name, so Cryptic can't do anything based on the name alone. It is the combination of the name Yumii + the specific look as depicted within CoX that Cryptic was given rights to.
You can't 'get your rights back' for a character you never legally protected in the first place. If the character was never legally protected, you never had (legal) rights to it in the first place. Any number of people could claim they thought up the idea of a katana wielding catgirl named Yumii first. And some of them might be telling the truth. 'Having rights to a character idea' begins when the character is trademarked, or a story is copywritten.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
[ QUOTE ]
What Cryptic/NC is concerned with are generally:
1) Image of character -- if you build it in the character generator. I'm not trying to say "we" own blue half capes, and I'm not trying to say we don't. If you build a character in the generator, and then have it drawn, if it's 100% the same character and you are profitting from it, then you might have a problem.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok...how about someone else profitting from my image? I have seen sites that, for a fee/price, they will draw your character "comic book" style. Is this ok? So I can pay someone for my image as long as I don't profit from it?
Kenja's Logitec G15 Masters Guide
Kenja's Concise Commands and Emotes Guide (I10)
Kenja's Links Guide for Badge Collectors
Visit SalsaVille!
[ QUOTE ]
While it would be nice, I kind of wonder whether it would be worth the time and expense to get a lawyer to come up with an altered EULA for Cryptic.
First of all, the only thing you are really risking (IMHO) is that the character might be genericed. Annoying, but much less problem than changing the EULA.
There is the tiny possiblity that one of your characters might become wildly popular and worth millions somehow, and that Cryptic might ask you for some of the money. But you can avoid that, by simply altering the name and appearance of the character before using it for profit in the future. Much cheaper than hiring a lawyer, for both you and Cryptic.
Due to the Marvel lawsuit, Sean "Manticore" Fish changed the name of the character Bastion to Citadel. Did Marvel think of the name Bastion first? Who knows? For all I know, Sean thought the name up in High School, possibly decades before the Marvel Character showed up. But I bet Marvel legally protected it first.
Manticore dealt with it in a mature and professional manner (or so it seems, he could have thrown furniture around the office for all I know), and I suggest we do likewise.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm curious why people keep avoiding the fact that you *cannot* copyright a name, only trademark it.
I'm just saying that based on all of this thread, unless Cryptic/NCSoft have some plan to permanently retain ownership of the names of our characters, it would be a sign of good faith for them to adjust the EULA that all of them revert back to player ownership upon deletion.
Unless they *WANT* to own 17+ million names, which is very possible.
But as I said the real question is the legality of a EULA, but IANAL, and I don't want to debate that because that might get the thread closed. I just think redname attention should be drawn to this facet, as it's what's most troubling. The company owned content, story, graphics and such--no question, it's theirs, its not up for debate--the real question is do they intend for us to NEVER be able to use or profit from any character name imported into this game.
Do they intend to keep all these names forever? Because if they do, at least in the USA, they need to trademark them if so.
For example, if I were a scientist that specialized in spiders, and wanted to give science lectures and symposiums for students I could likely get away with billing myself as The Spider Man, being the world's leading expert on arachnids. If I were a 60 year old man with a big beard and belly, and say British, there would be no real brand confusion between me and Peter Parker. I could do it. No confusion between me and Marvel's Spider-Man mark there.
Cryptic cannot 'return' any rights to you, because you never had any rights to any character you created on their servers in the first place.
Unless, of course, you legally protected the character before creating it in CoX, in which case you did not have the right to create it in CoX.
The two are mutually exclusive.
I will make up a character right now: the Crimson Bride. She wears a red veil and a white dress.
Do I have any rights to that character idea? No. Cryptic, Marvel, or you could write a story with that character right now, and I couldn't do anything about it.
Now I will write a story about The Crimson Bride. One day, the Crimson Bride was angry because she caught her husband cheating with a bridesmaid. She manifested claws and attacked him. It turns out he was a mob hit man and he pulled out a gun and shot her. But she regenerated and slashed him till he fell unconscious. The priest asked her not to kill him, and she didn't. But from then on, she had a vendetta against the mob, and hunted them down anywhere she found them, still wearing her crimson veil.
Does writing that story give me any rights? No.
If I were now to log onto CoX and crreate the character, that now gives Cryptic the right to profit from that character.
If instead of building her as a CoX character, I were to legally protect the character, I THEN finally have rights to profit from it. At that point, I can no longer legally build her in CoX.
If I were to sell a book about the Crimson Bride without first trademarking the character or copywriting the story, someone else could plaigarize it and gain the rights to the character by legally protecting it first.
What you are asking for is for Cryptic to GRANT, not RETURN, but grant the rights to us to legally profit from characters we create using their tools. To trademark the characters for us and then give them to us to profit from.
Good luck with that.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Then why does the EULA specifically say *we* GRANT them the rights? This is like saying if Microsoft put in a EULA that all work 'authored' with their tools belongs to them because you clicked ok. The legality is dubious, and that's why Cryptic I'm thinking put in the clause that basically says "if it's not legal, you grant us the rights forever to your creation".
If it was never ours to begin with, as you attest, why put in that we specifically GRANT them to Cryptic? I don't want to speak about this in maybe this maybe that--it's simple semantics and I'd rather everyone didn't dance around for any kind of unneeded politeness. Language isn't polite, it is what it is.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but based on US Law:
You cannot copyright a name.
You can copyright a complete visual package of a character plus their story in conjunction. Superman's look, his powers, the fact he was rocketed to earth as a baby, reporter, etc. That is copyrightable.
You can trademark a name as brand mark. Superman is legally paid for, registered, and trademarked. The same as Mickey Mouse.
You have to go through Government Hoops and pay to trademark. You can't just slap the TM on their and off you go.
Is Cryptic going to trademark 17,000,000 names? Or hold them in perpetuity? It's unreasonable and unfathomable.
So... to bring this back to the front, yes, we do own anything and everything we create via the tools that's not a visual property of Cryptic already. Once we agree to the EULA--*if* it's legal--we "gift" or "grant" them the rights based on it's present wording. Based on that, they hold them.
What I am proposing is that the more appropriate way to do this would be to have a stipulation that upon deletion of a character all such gifted control of the rights to the name, concept, and *ANY* non-Cryptic content that they adverstise and market from a game perspective revert back to us.
What is unfair, undesirable, or unreasonable about that?
I am not a lawyer, but here's my understanding.
The EULA basically says,"I will not sue Cryptic for profits made from a character I created with their tools. The character I made is not plagiarized."
Assuming that Cryptic does not Trademark the characters (and it is unlikey to because of the expense involved), nothing prevents you (or any third party) from then Trademarking the character and profiting from it.
However, if that character then goes on to become a property worth millions, you can't then sue Cryptic for using that same character in their own stories and making money off of it. You signed that right away. That is the right you 'granted' Cryptic--the right to profit from that character.
Can Crypic slap a Cease and Desist on you from profiting from the character if neither you or they have it trademarked? Well, they can, but if it went to court, it would be a real murky and expensive issue. If they cared enough about a character to get lawyers involved, they'd probably Trademark that specific character first, and remove all doubt as to it's ownership.
AND BEFORE YOU GO GETTING ALL MAD AT CRYPTIC, it's likely the same for every online game you have ever played that allows you to create characters.
Cryptic likely does not hold a trademark on any of your characters, just the right to profit from the versions of them you have 'entered Paragon City' with (likely including any designs you finalized in Icon).
If you are that worried about it, legally protect the character yourself.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
May I just say how impressed I am at the various points of view that have been expressed in this thread. It's like reading a transcript of a law class (i love stuff like that).
So do we all agree that, generally speaking, Cryptic does not hold the rights to the characters in a truly legal sense, but that its such murky waters, they don't even really know what they have a right to or not? Do any rednames have anything more to say on the subject?
Back after 18 months away!
[ QUOTE ]
May I just say how impressed I am at the various points of view that have been expressed in this thread. It's like reading a transcript of a law class (i love stuff like that).
So do we all agree that, generally speaking, Cryptic does not hold the rights to the characters in a truly legal sense, but that its such murky waters, they don't even really know what they have a right to or not? Do any rednames have anything more to say on the subject?
[/ QUOTE ]
I would say it like this:
NCSoft owns the *representation* of characters as they exist in-game. Essentially, anything about he characte that specifically can be said to come from CoX and is the work of NCSoft/Cryptic, they own. So your character, WITH a CoX costume/character design appearance, WITH specifics of the CoX setting/history in their background/current circumstances, weilding CoX-specific powers is owned by NCSoft. So they own the character's CoX presentation.
Whoever, I'd say that what they do NOT own is a seperate representation of the character. Presented with the same basic character concept, with a demonstrably non-CoX-specific costume/facial/etc design, without references to CoX's setting or history, should be okay for your purposes. Because at that point, you no longer have any of NCSoft or Cyptic's work present in your character, only your own. However, if that work of yours ends up published/copyrighted material, you can probably expect your CoX character to get generic'ed unless you arrange things with NCSoft to allow it.
[ QUOTE ]
I think part of the reason the T-shirt is problematic is that many companies like Cafe Press that do those services are set up with the implication of merchandise. IIRC, even if you don't intend to sell multiple copies of a T-shirt, that is what their business is set up to do, and thus the legal problems with ownerships *really* start coming in.
[/ QUOTE ]In addition to that, check their contract. I'm willing to bet they have a very similar agreement with your useage of their service, and terms of "ownership" of such "content" as CoX's EULA- for the same reason CoX does, to protect your rights, and theirs.
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
[ QUOTE ]
I am not a redname, but here is my opinion anyway.
Technically you're screwed, but in practice you should be fine.
TECHNICALLY:
Assuming that Yumii was not legally protected before you clicked the 'enter Paragon City' button, you licensed Cryptic to use the character name Yumii as it represents a catgirl with a Katana, wearing the specific costumes you choose for her in the game.
Technically, if you then profit from Yumii (the katana wielding catgirl in those specific costumes), Cryptic has the right to legally shut you down and profit from her themselves.
Note that this does not give Cryptic the rights to all Katana-wielding catgirls. It especially does not give them the right to Katana-wielding catgirls named something other than Yumii, or who wear a costume not depicted on Cryptic's servers.
So, change the name in the novels, use none of Cryptic's backstory and you can have a legion of katana-wielding catgirls.
However, the rights to the specific combination of name and appearance do not go away once the character has been genericed or deleted. What goes away is Cryptic's liability. Once the character has been genericed or deleted, Cryptic has done their part to avoid ownership issues, and you can no longer sue them for using your character (assuming they don't continue using your character).
But if the character was never legally protected by you in the first place, you can't sue them for using it. You expressly gave them permission to use it.
IN PRACTICE:
If someone /petitions your character Yumii, and emails them a link to a published story about a Katana-wielding catgirl, it will be much cheaper and easier for Cryptic to generic the character than to hire a lawyer to hit the publishing company with a Cease and Desist.
In fact, they could choose to be nice and allow the fan use of their property to continue, basically ignoring the issue.
If, years later, the character Yumii the katana-wielding catgirl starts to make millions of dollars, it is unlikely (but possible) that anyone is even going to remember that she started in CoX (don't say so in interviews) and come after you for money.
I seriously doubt if Cryptic has legions of lawyer-monkeys scanning the media for any character that might have come from their game, then scouring the servers (over 17 million characters have been created) for matches.
However, if you did say that the character came from CoX originally, and the character were such a cash cow it was worthwhile, they would have the right to ask you for money. Even if the character had long been deleted by then.
Again, to avoid even this remote and unlikely possibility: In your fiction, use a name other than Yumii. You already stated she looks different from the CoX version, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Finally, about the name:
I think Yumii is a common Japanese name, so Cryptic can't do anything based on the name alone. It is the combination of the name Yumii + the specific look as depicted within CoX that Cryptic was given rights to.
You can't 'get your rights back' for a character you never legally protected in the first place. If the character was never legally protected, you never had (legal) rights to it in the first place. Any number of people could claim they thought up the idea of a katana wielding catgirl named Yumii first. And some of them might be telling the truth. 'Having rights to a character idea' begins when the character is trademarked, or a story is copywritten.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm... this is helpful >.< ok; how's this then...
See... the name has been a huge chunk of who she is for a long time; I know that's silly but it's true >.>; so changing her name is like killing a part of the character.
*however*
Her costume is quite different; and she's been around since... hmm... 4 years before CoH came out <,< I didn't register her with the copyright office *but*; I read this which I found interesting; of course it doesn't do a darn thing in the case of Trademarks >.>; but...
==========================================
When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.
=========================================
This is from www.copyright.gov (ie: the copyright office website).
So in a technical sense; since I have several dated drawings of her from even that far back; she's 'mine' in that sense...
but as I said that doesn't do anything trademark wise; and while I can prove my original ownership clicking the EULA is admittedly saying "Ok" >.< So... I dunno.
But here's what I was going to say... her body/skintone/face are all *similar* between the CoH and non-CoH versions; but her outfits and attitudes are vastly different... as well as backstory obviously; so I guess that's what interests me to know >.> I'm not using their costume pieces at all.
>.>; <sigh> Last game I skim the EULA on lol <;.;> Up till now I really always just thought "You agree not to be an [censored] in-game." was the gist of it >.> well and "You can't sue us for your character existing in our game." >.>
I am really in the same place as you mistformsquirrel, I have a couple of concept drawings of my characters, and he has a pretty generic outfit that no one could say I'm using CoX's costume pieces. I have a stripe that goes from the waist up and down the arms...like Spider-Man's red section, however my suit is purple and green. It's always been that way, and CoH just happened to have the same thing, so it worked out. Next, he wears jeans. I'm pretty sure anyone can wear jeans. And sneakers. Other than that, he has black skin (real black, not african) and glowing purple eyes.
I guess what I really need to do is find those old sketches I made.
I'm hoping that simply publishing my stories (that has nothing to do with CoH) and turning them in for my senior project is alright and CoX won't sue me for writing down my ideas.
[ QUOTE ]
2) Character name & history - technically the character names/history that you create for CoH/CoV are owned by Cryptic/NCsoft. You can use them in fanfiction, etc., but you cannot profit from them.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to say if this is right or wrong -- but if you can avoid all potential legal entanglements, why wouldn't you?
[/ QUOTE ]
Why not just plain NOT lay claim to names and histories not containing actual COH/COV history or content, and costumes not obviously derived from the COX engine, and powers not exclusive to COX (I'm not sure I can think of any in COX I haven't seen elsewhere...), even if they exist, or have existed, in the COX game system? What reasonable motivation do you (collectively) have to claim these player creations?
If you claim ownership over my characters and concepts, don't you also assert you have the right to profit off of them in the future? Are you not maintaining you have the right to, without any consent from me, replicate *my* character, *my* concepts, and *my* history, and use them for your own profit.
This just smells wrong to me. I've never liked being told "Oh, well we could, but we won't." Lay claim to your own content and keep your hands off mine, is that too much to ask?
I bet that as a license/user agreement reader (or even skimmer) I am probably in the *minority*. I'm a little disappointed in myself that I didn't notice the larger section below which says that I give you everything I ever do when I log in. Probably because I assumed "content and conduct" to refer to "(not wanting) adult content" and "poor conduct", and not applicable. I'm sure most people don't even realise they are signing over all rights to everything they do while logged in.
What concerns me is that if some one (I'm not THAT invested in my characters, Lazuli's background is something like "mumblemumble nanites mumblemumble") does decide to carry on a concept - be it germinated in your game or not - into an innovative new work of art, some lawyer or money-grubber higher up may demand royalties from the person who is ultimately the creator (and, legally or not, in my mind the real owner of the beyond-COX content) for a concept that may no longer truly be "likely to bring to mind the Game Content"
I'm sure there are many other gamers and writers who like to port their creations. Many of my friends and I have attempted to bring previously existing characters, their names and histories, over from roleplaying games. From White Wolf's Changeling: The Dreaming, the DC Heroes RPG, and some strategy games, for example.
You're telling me I shouldn't have done this, that we should delete these characters (none of mine worked actually, your power systems didn't jive with their concepts). Can you see how this is annoying? Can you see how I ultimately don't care about overprotective lawyering?
What I encourage is that you (collectively) not just write an iron clad claim of death over all in-game events for fear that somewhere down the road some megacomic might make money because some one used too many of your concepts (aren't they already protected?) and actually have an agreement that acknowledges player creativity comes from the creator, as much or more than COX, despite the concept's beginning in your world.
Chances are, this won't happen. Law and money are too powerful... but hey, that's my take.
Lazuli.
(edited for a very odd typo and a few little words here and there...)
[ QUOTE ]
I am really in the same place as you mistformsquirrel, I have a couple of concept drawings of my characters, and he has a pretty generic outfit that no one could say I'm using CoX's costume pieces. I have a stripe that goes from the waist up and down the arms...like Spider-Man's red section, however my suit is purple and green. It's always been that way, and CoH just happened to have the same thing, so it worked out. Next, he wears jeans. I'm pretty sure anyone can wear jeans. And sneakers. Other than that, he has black skin (real black, not african) and glowing purple eyes.
I guess what I really need to do is find those old sketches I made.
I'm hoping that simply publishing my stories (that has nothing to do with CoH) and turning them in for my senior project is alright and CoX won't sue me for writing down my ideas.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah <~.~> Until I know more from rednames; I'm using this as a failsafe (since I'm 99.9% sure they don't have a screenshot of EVERY costume I've ever had <o.o>; that'd just be creepy).
I'm doing an extreme makeover of my character >.> bodytype of course I have to leave alone; and I'm leaving the face and hair alone because otherwise it's just not 'her' (as in, it even ruins the CoH specific concept); but her costumes are totally different now.
She's a samurai in the 'real' (ie: my) world (well ok not a real samurai; but samurai-esque); in CoH I've re-done her so that she's wearing A) A robot armor suit. B) A motorcycle jacket (sleeveless) and jeans; C) A covert ops leather outfit with a mask.
I've also made my skin 2 shades lighter >.>
Of course I'd love to continue playing my character as she was intended; but in the end I can't sacrifice 'me' (Ie: my creative parts) to play a game <~.~> as I said before; if push comes to shove, and I've got a choice I can make, then well, CoH comes out on bottom prioritywise. (And I love this game; so that's really saying something).
So for now the CoH Yumii has no backstory, and has 3 costumes that would definitely never ever fit in my novel (given its a fantasy novel <,<
.
<x_x> I'm glad I haven't made many of my other characters, and most of them were lowbies so they've been long deleted. This one is 38 though <~.~>;
Still not a lawyer, but still opinionated...
Anybody can profit from a character that is not legally protected. That's called 'public domain' or 'clip art'.
However, once you legally protected a character by copywrite or trademark, you are saying, "No one can profit from this character without my permission."
It's just that you already gave Cryptic permission.
It would be silly for Cryptic to be unable to show in-game footage/screenshots of characters in CoX (and it's derivative works), which is basically all the EULA does. Of course any screenshots or demos they show around are essentially advertising, and therefore for profit.
If you are going to turn your CoX character into a work of art without legally protecting it first, you are already asking for it to be stolen. If you legally protect your CoX character, then it is safe, and no one else can profit from it...except for Cryptic.
Cryptic has taken no rights from you, because you don't have any yet. All you have done is tell them they can continue to profit from your character IF someday you legally protect it.
And if you want to cut Cryptic out of even this nebulous deal, all you have to do is make sure your literary version and the CoX version are as different from each other as Superman is from Captain "Shazam" Marvel, or Hyperion, or Icon, or Mighty Mouse.
Or Statesman.
A lot easier and a lot cheaper than changing a EULA, I'd bet.
As far as porting characters over from other games...the source of a character is not at issue, only whether the character (and the associated set of story elements) is legally protected or not. That's all that matters.
Some day, Marvel will create a popular and profitable comic book character that will bear a very close resemblance to one of the 17 million characters previously created in CoX. THEN things will possibly get very interesting.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Ha, mine's lvl 38 too. I'm tempted to either change the real world costume of Spidon, or else make one of my seconadry costumes in game become the main one. We'll see. Good luck with your endevours
Just my uninformed opinion, but I've always attributed a lot of the character-specific stuff in the EULA to translate to "We may run a contest that results in our putting your character in our monthly comic book, which we profit off of. You cannot sue us for that. You gave us permission to do this upon creating the character in the game (and reaffirmed the permission upon entering the contest)."
Most of my CoX characters are ones that I have played on MUSHes and have been drawing regularly for upwards of six years. Change the details. Tweak the look. And, should the opportunity ever come for me to profit from them, for God's sake, don't mention Paragon City or Arachnos or anything Cryptic and NCSoft created for this specific setting - change the costumes, change the circumstances, change the window dressing. Be original. That way, I /should/ be fine. Not too hard.
Let's say that Thors_Assassin got a book deal. If he wrote about TA as he appears in-game, he would be in trouble. But he could write about a man who serves/served as one of Thor's assassins if he changed the particulars so that it was not a carbon copy of what appears in-game.
Well, with all that I just did >.< I think the distinction between the two versions is now great enough one can honestly call them seperate characters who happen to have similar faces/hair (but even differences between those parts); and they share a name and weapons.
That's one great thing about CoH <'x'> It's totally mutable. I mean, you can say "we own your background story/look/name" etc... but with the exception of the name; you can change *all* of it. So without a whole bunch of screenshotting (which even then >.< they weren't close enough even then I don't think)
Err... I'm just rambling >< sorry.
Anyways >< I think I'm OK now. I mean I won't ever know for sure unless Cryptic really wanted to sue me <x.x>; I would hope not; it's a company I rather like lol; plus who knows if my novel will ever take off <~.~> It's not even finished lol!
<sigh> wish Artic Sun would have replied; but he doesn't even work here anymore does he? <;.;> Oh well >.< can't blame him; who wants to get involved in this mess any further than they already did <>.<>
(Thanks everyone for the help btw <~.~>; sorry if I seem a bit nuts; this is important to me and well... I won't be skimming an y EULA's from now on >.< you can bet that!)
Ok, I need to throw a question/point out here...
I think it's pretty safe to agree that a character *name* can't be copyrighted, as has basically been proven by those with experience in copyright law.
Let's assume I have a comic-ish character that I've been drawing/illustrating/what-have-you for the last 10 years. If I (foolishly?) choose to create this character in City of Heroes, chances are incredibly good that the costume I drew a decade ago will not exactly be reproduced using the game. Thus, the image of the character in-game does not match the image of the character I already hold a claim to.
So the character name isn't copyrighted, check. The image of the character has varied, so the 'image' now owned by Cryptic/NC isn't the same image I'm holding a claim to.
The powers are more than likely going to vary somewhat (or extremely) from what I'd originally bestowed on the character, and it's pretty hard to enforce a copyright on "he throws fireballs" or "she has psychic abilities".
That pretty much leaves the character Bio as the sole item linking my hypothetical, preexisting character to the similar character I may be playing in CoH. Leaving it blank, or changing the bio completely is the last step in producing an entirely unique character who, in practice, only shares a name which can't be copyrighted anyhow.
Costume and Bio are your safety features here. If there's a need/desire to play a preexisting character of your own ownership, ensuring that you change the appearance and bio to a degree where they are clearly varied from your original character should protect it to a point.
All that aside, I seem to recall (talking way back Issue 1/2 timeframe) something in the EULA mentioning you could not reproduce a copyrighted character "without prior written consent from the copyright holder"... or something along those lines. I notice as I read over the EULA nothing like this is currently mentioned - was this removed due in part to certain lawsuits, or am I just imagining things?
Not sure about that exactly >.> I do know someone who had written permission sent to NCSoft from the owner of a copyright on a manga character so she could use it. She'd been genericked; and manga artists/authors have a pretty broad tolerance for the use of their characters (in Japan; fan-comics are commonly sold... for example; it'd be like creating a Superman comic; selling it at a con; and possibly being congratulated by someone at DC on it. Rather than busted horribly)
So it's possible that they changed it even just because they expected "no one will ACTUALLY try this..." and of course... people did; and got permission.
But then that opens up the can of worms "But I saw <X> character running around; and I petitioned them; why aren't THEY genericked? I got genericked." And then of course you have to waste GM time explaining to them that that person has permission.
OR that person gets REPEATEDLY genericked by the GM staff; as keeping track of which accounts do have permission to use copyrighted material and which don't would get tedius.
I'm sure that's basically the reason it was removed... it was supposed to give the illusion of "We'll let you if you convince them" but they likely thought it would never happen >.> and...
Of course that's just my theorizing. I mean, if I were Cryptic; I'd never expect someone to actually get permission either; it's just one of those things... it's not the past of least resistance, and most people wouldn't even bother to try (they'd assume they'd never have a chance).
This of course; is purely theory.
IIRC waaaaay back, there was an *authorized* (ie had written permission) DC "Tribute SG" on one server... Victory or Virtue?
Out of total curiosity, can anyone confirm this or was it just wild rumour?
I don't know of any authorized SGs, but I do know of a JLA SG and an Avengers SG that were both removed. My main used to team with a Capn America that was removed. I remember an SG of Super-deformed (as in, midget versions) of the JLA (Supermite, Wonder Mite, etc) that used to exist. I think they were called the 'Mitey Heroes' or some such. Haven't seen them in awhile.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
[ QUOTE ]
On this topic, we also have Plastic Man, Ping the Elastic Man, Elongated Man, Mr. Fantastic, Luffy, and Elastigirl/Mrs. Incredible.
[/ QUOTE ]
But of course Luffy is the only one that makes stretching look like a cool power
I'm just going to ask point blank -
but still a catgirl; still wielding a katana and still rather fast (though not nearly as fast as the CoH version. This one is a fantasy character, not a super hero.)
If I get my character genricked (I mean; I'd be completely *100%* willing to have a GM neutralize my costume and name); essentially building a new character on the old template of powers... do I get my rights back for my character?
Do I get them back if I delete the character?
I'm going to use my own character as an example here because she's not published yet; I want her to be; but if I'm already SOL... well, I'd rather everyone here get the best understanding as possible.
So, if someone with the knowledge (ie: redname) would be so kind as to analyze this situation; tell me where what falls >.> I would appreciate it.
Ok; on your servers, I have a character named Yumii. She's a catgirl with a katana and fast reflexes. She has no travel power per-se; totally natural character.
Her backstory (though I'll admit it's currently not listed; I need to do a good writeup of it); is that she had been kidnapped by the Circle of Thorns on her way to school; in the middle of the ceremony that would have allowed a CoT soul into her and thus possessed her body... a strange white spirit offered her the handle to a sword. She accepted (rather desperate situation); and defeated the circle gathering in a burst of energy. After that, she spent alot of time training with the spirit (who turned out to be a distant ancestor). Now the spirit has dissipated/returned home/ceased wandering (I told you it was incomplete); and Yumii has decided to use her abilities to aid the city.
Now my version. (As far as I possibly can; if I'm allowed to >.> the following is (C) me >.>; or at least I'd really appreciate people not taking it <,<
Yumii; who has a very similar look I might add (the same 'wedge" type hair; well, not quite as far forward, and with further out bangs >.>
Backstory (I'm being basic here for obvious reasons);
Simply put, she and her mother were shipwrecked during a diplomatic mission to the mainland. Yumii was 5 at the time, and doesn't really remember her mother, family, or even the shipwreck. They both washed ashore, but her mother passed away only a few hours after; Yumii was rescued by villagers from a nearby fishing village. She was taken in by the village bakers; and knew a fairly happy childhood until at the age of twelve her home burned down. (An accident with the stove).
Yumii's 'unique' heritage (she's a catgirl; the people on the mainland are human) has long brought her the ire of the village wise-woman; and she, and others who believe what she says about her being 'demonic'; use this as a pretext to run her out of town, hurling rocks and insults. She hides in the woods and is later picked up by a band of adventurers; who she works with for a time before retiring some years later to a city in the north. (This is where the story actually begins >.>
Obviously; the stories are vastly different; the second has no relationship to CoH *at all* with the exception of name, bodytype and the ears/tail thing; and I still haven't come up with a surname for her; dunno if I ever will.
As for 'likeness'; I never intended her to just wear one outfit all the time. Of course, this is a novel project anyway; so it's not like you'd expressely see her outside of perhaps the coverart. But even then; the clothing I doubt would resemble much that's in COH; the closest being the Robe tops; but even then it'd be vastly different.
So here's my question.
Given the above; am I totally safe to continue with my project (the below part?); or how can I rectify it? Because if I'm going to sacrifice one of the two; I'd gladly sacrifice a character name/likeness within CoH to preserve my out of CoH ability to use them. But given the disparity of the characters... I just don't think they're close enough in anything but their faces and names for it to be an issue.
So; really hoping this one can be answered >.<; Actually; I normally don't do this kind of thing but... I'm going to PM this scenario to Arctic so I make sure he sees this. It's too important to my mental well being <x.x>;