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please, Go watch Animal plant or something, So your logic can be adjusted.
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What about this game resembles Animal Planet?
Animal Planet Heroes? We're not taking people out of a bad situation, and nurturing them to health, or are you trying to say that we should be rooting for the people that abuse the animals on that show?
Croc Hunter/Jeff Corwin? People may be crazy in PvP zones, but they're not doing it to lull people into an educational experince by acting like they do.
The Most Extreme? I can see the title, but if anything, the Most Extreme would support the FC, as it puts ten competators into an hour show then discusses which is the "most extreme," that seems sort of like the arena/FC to me.
Or are you refering to general animal behaviors? The one where the animals kill and eat each other for survival, not just to force them to die. Dropping an enemy into NPCs to give them debt, with no intention or claiming the meat on their bones (Rep, codes, shards, and/or bounty) is distinctly unanimalistic in behavior. And before you start throwing out examples of well X animal does this, and it's cruel, how many of those behaviors aren't to get a mate, toughen up for future encounters of survival or domanence, or to cause the furthering of the species? How does forcing people into NPCs to give them debt reprsent any of those, you're not making any friends, you're not proving you're better then anyone, and you're definatly not making anyone like you, your AT, or your power sets?
Seriously, "Perfect world reasoning" or not, you shouldn't act like an immature child.
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To comment on this little tone the devs have of forcing people into debt is not griefing, this will have a negative impact, eventually the griefers will move in force to their new unrestricted playground, and with the rush to do nothing but act like fools, they'll drive all but the level 50 players out of the zone, making the PvP zones as barren as the arenas.
Having this behavior accepted means that players that don't want to be forced into exemplaring every time they leave a PvP will eventually run face first into the lacking of 30+ content in CoV and CoH and stuck with no missions for upwards of 2 to 3 levels will wear on them and they'll quit. Even with the newspaper and PvP zone missions, which get highly repeatative and too full of only one type of enemy (CoT, longbow/Arachnos and Council), it's still just a grind in those those levels when you don't have contants introducing you to new mission layouts, enemies and general different contant
Then what will be accomplished? We'll have barren zones, more bored players that will leave after three months tired of the high level grind, and people that just won't recommend the game to others.
I call this poor form for the devs.
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You could also be actioned for exploiting in a PvP zone - for example - by hanging out as a villain in a hero hospital to gank heroes as they respawn. This is not as designed and may be actioned.
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What about playing a villian, then having a hero confuse you so you can attack other villains?
Its called killed or be killed
Watch how the animals play off each other, they PVP all the time and if they dont use strategy or adapt they die off
Now stop Exaggerating chicken little,and if you dont like somthing go kick their butt its PVP after all.
We all know that the DEV'S are gods and made the game right?
I just agree with them so its obvious whos right
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I say petition him.
and before someone states that it is an open PvP zone and FC is not a sactioned event, let me state that this is not the point.
This person is Harrassing other players. Harrasment is something NC Soft does not take lightly.
If you feel you are being harassed, petition the player, it is your right.
petiitioning is easy type "/petition harassment by player (insert name here)"
be sure to include the date, and a small description of the harassment.
Harassment is subjective, so not everyone will agree, however it is your right as a paying costumer to report any ingame harassment.
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I petitioned a player who was doing this, and they basically said too bad your in a open pvp zone deal with it 
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That's not true. What they did say was you are not privialaged to the results and that it is between NC Soft and the Player petitioned against.
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lol nope they didnt take it up with the player, thy said go to the arena...and ive heard enough of that....
Devil
Sorry, not boasting just making a point.
Please, put down the bravado and actually join the conversation, we're not in the PvP zone at the moment.
I don't disagree that it's kill or be killed... I don't have anything to do with the FC's or any of that (though I think the idea is novel, and should be acknowledged by the Dev's in some way... after all, it seems a rather large portion of the player base wants it) The few times I've gone into the PvP zones, it was for the purpose of choosing and hunting prey, not do a FC kind of thing... (who would think... a werewolf doing that??)
But FC's and all that aside, the problem is PvP debt. TPing foes is not the only way it happens... The few times I've PvP'd I've gotten debt... not once from TP foe. Usually I happened to be fighting a mob and a Stalker would come up behind me and do enough damage not to kill me, but the next NPC hit did it (which will almost be a constant frustration for Stalkers who want bounty points, and their prey who get debt, when they bring in the "no one shot kill" rule- but will be a vast source of glee to those that want to "grief" and cause debt)... or in the din of battle with a worthy meal (sorry.. opponent)... NPC's all around fighting us and each other, and an NPC just happens to get a lucky hit at the right moment.
I love that kind of atmosphere though... throngs of warriors all over the field, and the hero sees the villain (or the other way around)... wades through the masses of NPC's to handle their true adversary personally... Kill or be killed I say!
But that's not the issue... it's debt or no debt. It isn't the "rules of engangement" I have a problem with, it's the game mechanic. I actively avoid debt in PvE, and I don't want debt in PvP, accidental or not, period. That's what they Dev's said way back when, and was a big selling point to me.
The fact that the Dev's all but handed the green light to every petty piece of garbage griefer out there to see if they can make an opponent hit the debt cap and leave the zone out of frustration while screaming PWNED U!!! at their backs on the way out... well... That's what I have issue with.
If they removed the debt, I would say gank, TP foe, Hurricane- whatever other dirty trick you can devise- all who stand in your way... more power to you, whatever floats your boat... but the debt's gotta go!
And for those of you who are asking those who aren't on Champion server to stop posting, my namesake and my highest, is on Champion, and is my main server 
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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Uh oh, more reasons to ignore pvp zones....
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Pretty much 
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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the problem is PvP debt.
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This is exactly my point and the problem. No matter how you feel about debt, intentionally giving it to someone (monster training, TPing into mobs, etc.) is griefing in every aspect of this game except (apparently) PvP zones. THAT is the issue here that I am concerned with.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Watch how the animals play off each other, they PVP all the time and if they dont use strategy or adapt they die off
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There's your logical fallacy, animal's aren't "playing" off each other, they're hunting for actual survival, we are playing a game.
No animal is going to purposely get it's prey killed by another creature for no benefit to itself, that's not adapting, it's stupid, as it would starve.
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We all know that the DEV'S are gods and made the game right?
I just agree with them so its obvious whos right
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Yes, they're so perfect and right all the time, they've never made any mistake like Smoke Grenade, rooting status protection, the ability to get 100% resistances, infernal being immune to fire damage, poor defence scaling for fighting plus levels and ranks, etc. . .
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the problem is PvP debt.
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This is exactly my point and the problem. No matter how you feel about debt, intentionally giving it to someone (monster training, TPing into mobs, etc.) is griefing in every aspect of this game except (apparently) PvP zones. THAT is the issue here that I am concerned with.
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I Agree with Myr.
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the problem is PvP debt.
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This is exactly my point and the problem. No matter how you feel about debt, intentionally giving it to someone (monster training, TPing into mobs, etc.) is griefing in every aspect of this game except (apparently) PvP zones. THAT is the issue here that I am concerned with.
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yep and i think this is all unfair
Ex-Mayor of Champion
I Love all my Championites. I hope to see everyone once again.
SHOWTIME - You guys are like my family!
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What about pvp dont you people understand?
please, Go watch Animal plant or something, So your logic can be adjusted.
Your perfect world reasoning makes me sick, and you are a carebear that wants mommy to fight your battles.
Stop crying chicken little(the sky is falling)crap.
Welcome to the jungle your gonna die!!!!
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Actually, it would be you doing the dying if you showed your face on the evening my SG decides to invade a PvP zone. However, you are not on Champion, so go ahead and boast.
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But.. but... what if he was only there to take in the sightss? What if he's role-playing that he's a consultant for the Tsoo and advising them on their fighting techniques? What if he's just surveying the area for new Mapolis Guide to Kickin' Butt on $5 a Day?
Then... why, you'd be GRIEFING him if your SG attacked him! 
God damn it takes a LONG time to read 32 pages of posts in 1 sitting
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God damn it takes a LONG time to read 32 pages of posts in 1 sitting
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LOL..best post yet 
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What about pvp dont you people understand?
please, Go watch Animal plant or something, So your logic can be adjusted.
Your perfect world reasoning makes me sick, and you are a carebear that wants mommy to fight your battles.
Stop crying chicken little(the sky is falling)crap.
Welcome to the jungle your gonna die!!!!
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Actually, it would be you doing the dying if you showed your face on the evening my SG decides to invade a PvP zone. However, you are not on Champion, so go ahead and boast.
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But.. but... what if he was only there to take in the sightss? What if he's role-playing that he's a consultant for the Tsoo and advising them on their fighting techniques? What if he's just surveying the area for new Mapolis Guide to Kickin' Butt on $5 a Day?
Then... why, you'd be GRIEFING him if your SG attacked him!
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Again, you are another one missing the point, Samus. I am ONLY concerned with people that use exploits and people that intentionally give other players debt. That's it. I don't give a damn about anything else that goes on in an open PvP zone.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
Ok...everybody that has posted here HAS to go post in my Patron Power Pics thread!!
I have two old uncles and when I go home to visit for family get together they are always there. Them and some of their old friends. Lord they crack me up when the get together. There will be a group of them all talking. Not like a normal conversation mind you. No siree. They all talk at the same time. Four a or five conversations going at one time. One trying to talk over the other..getting louder and louder. Not one of them paying attention to what the other one says or realy caring what anyone else has to say. I think they just yak away just to hear themselves talk...actually I'm positive thats what they're doing. It's halarious and sad all at the same time. Thats what this thread reminds me of.
LOL..you are all my crazy old uncles...
(I think they're cross dressers too )
I was talking about ppl purposely giving other ppl debt, cause that happened to me alot.
not "accidentaly"
"Oops, i 'accidentaly' tped foe and put you in that PvE group. Sorry"
Ex-Mayor of Champion
I Love all my Championites. I hope to see everyone once again.
SHOWTIME - You guys are like my family!
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do you program? before you start coding you have to have some idea where the program is going first. everyone still uses flow charts to depict this, although they are more commonly referred to as SCATA systems now.
SCATA stands for something but hell if i remember
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We use UML nowadays.
Flowcharts have been renamed to "object interaction diagrams" or "sequence diagrams" or something like that.
They have vertical bars instead of funny-shaped boxes.
example 1 example 2
Exactly, Myrmydon. I'm not outraged at the fact that debt happens in PvP zones. I'm not outraged by players being a**hats. As an extraordinarily cynical person, I expect the worst from humanity and am rarely disappointed. The fact that there are little turdmonkies running around seeking only to bring debt and irritation to players who are actually trying to PLAY the game doesn't even bother me that much. I can always get even with them.
What angers me so much is that the devs are giving tacit approval to go ahead and be a griefing d***head. I had honestly expected them to at least state disapproval, even if they won't taking any real action. Instead of trying to encourage decency as players, they are encouraging the negative side of people.
Even as recently as CoV beta, I remember Statesman saying that using the mobs tactically to win a fight is okay, but using them for the sole purpose of causing debt is not. And now he's gone back on that.
This leaves me feeling more disgusted than all the nerfs of I4, I5, and I6 put together. Those were just matters of mechanics. This is a matter of principle.
edited to correct spelling of myr's name and self-censor a couple of words
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What about pvp dont you people understand?
please, Go watch Animal plant or something, So your logic can be adjusted.
Your perfect world reasoning makes me sick, and you are a carebear that wants mommy to fight your battles.
Stop crying chicken little(the sky is falling)crap.
Welcome to the jungle your gonna die!!!!
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Actually, it would be you doing the dying if you showed your face on the evening my SG decides to invade a PvP zone. However, you are not on Champion, so go ahead and boast.
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But.. but... what if he was only there to take in the sightss? What if he's role-playing that he's a consultant for the Tsoo and advising them on their fighting techniques? What if he's just surveying the area for new Mapolis Guide to Kickin' Butt on $5 a Day?
Then... why, you'd be GRIEFING him if your SG attacked him!
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Again, you are another one missing the point, Samus. I am ONLY concerned with people that use exploits and people that intentionally give other players debt. That's it. I don't give a damn about anything else that goes on in an open PvP zone.
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No, I got your point. You want the PVP zones to be all rainbows and cuddly bunny rabbits where people can only attack you on YOUR terms. That includes not getting mobs of their own faction to assist them as much as it includes the RP excuse.
First off... "exploits" and using mobs to assist you/kill for you are NOT the same thing. Exploit = not allowed. Using mobs = allowed. I think that most of us agree that "exploits" are not ok. But you, and others, keep wanting to claim that causing another player debt, in a PVP zone, is the same as an exploit, when the devs have CLEARLY stated it is not. Nor is it griefing. Nor harrasment.
And all this fuss about debt... sweet lord. Y'know, there are many of us that actually go out of our way to INCUR debt. For a number of reasons. To earn more infamy, to not outlevel contacts, and even to get badges... which there ARE SG/VG badges based on debt payment that grant you access to upgrades for your base. Rather than earning themselves PVP points, they just helped your SG/VG towards better base equipment. So really, next time someone "intentionally" gives you debt by getting mobs to kill you in a PVP zone, you should thank them.
Umm....the only programming I've done so far was a little 1v1 duel of numbers LoL. Still have my training wheels on too! 
Ok this here is an Imperial thread hijack. Place all your flames and repetitive posts in the bag and no one get's hurt. 
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I just sent a PM to cuppa asking if purposefully giving a player debt is considered griefing. Will update when she gets back to me
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The Devs say - No.
Ultimately PVE mobs in a PVP zones are hazards of a PVP zone. Players do have control (and options) that will prevent them from being victims of the TP Foe tactic.
Regarding being held, immobilized, slept and then being teleported into a PVE mob: griefing? No.
If a player uses TP Foe and teleports another player into a mob, so that their health is reduced, and then finishes them off with a killing shot….griefing? No.
If a player intentionally uses a knockback power (or Repel or Dispersion Bubble) on another player from the top of the roof to the street below where there happens to be a PVE mob, and the player’s presence draws mob aggro and dies…should the player who knocked back the target player off that roof be actioned for griefing? No.
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So in other words....
In a PvE zone I have to behave. No going out of my way to give other playes debt.
In a PvP zone I can? wOOt!
Sorry Cuppa, probably not your decision but..... your post is a griefer's wet dream. Please ask some of the actual people responsible for this policy to bring in a mid 20s level toon into a PvP zone now. I think after a few TP Foes, Hurricaned, KB'd into mobs for only the purpose of giving them debt, they would quickly change their tune.
CK: Don't know you. Based on your posts, I don't want to. I love PvP in all forms. It's a rush. But good sportsmanship is required to get ANY respect from me at all. This you lack by your own words.
To all other saying "Take it to the Arena!"
Newsflash: While participating in a FC within a PvP zone, the players are available to fight. Before FC, after FC and during FC. If they all go to the Arena, guess what? Fewer players in the PvP zone. Less chances to fight.
In simple terms:
15 toons in FC
1 toon not in FC
FC toons leave zone to go to Arena.
That leaves.....1 toon in zone.
Yeah, good solution. pfft.
Just keep asking for arena modules to be installed in Pocket-D. Then you can arrange FC rather easily with heroes and villains.
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