GM Incompetents and Incorrect Badge info
By
Beef_Cake,
Posted on: 2006-02-23 06:43 in Badges and Gladiators
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Nice update there on your Avatar too Posi, ...looks TUFF, I certainly feel "grey" to him...
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It was in the back of one of the comic issues, done by Virtues own Veikira. Look for it in the comic Freaking amazing.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
First, let me sympathize. And let me refer you to my post in Liberty section about not getting the badge for Justin Augustine TF, because I was called away for about 6-8 minutes during the last mission (second to last - but the last one in a door map) So, I exited, just in case I could not return.
I wasn't awarded the badge. I petitioned. I went through 4 GMs before I got to the head guy who made sure I got my badge.
That being said, all GM's seemed to be quite sympathetic. However, the system is set up so that they can only fix things that are known to be broken at the time. And you are likely right. Most of us DO know more about this game than the GMs because we spend more time playing this game than they do working for CoH.
Incompetents? Nah, I think they're just working for the man, like many of us are. They have their parameters given to them and they try their best to work within them. The funny thing is, I inferred from an interview with CuppaJo and Positron that even the devs don't know the precise numbers needed to get all the badges. Some, I think, truly are "easter eggs" (a surprise planted by the programmer(s). )
So when we petition for a badge that we think we deserve, but didn't get, you might be well served citing why you deserve it, and all those other details.
Let them know what the "requirements" for the badge are. It doesn't save them a step, but it lets them know why you're petitioning. They must then verify that you have satisied the requirement, and that the requirements that you give are the actual requirements. Many lower tier GMs can't access these records and have to table your petition until a senior GM is available.
They may not divulge the actual requirements, but they can divulge that you haven't met them.
For example, the praetorian AVs. Many of us satisfy all the requirements except the AVs, and then start in on the arcs to get them all. Then, lo and behold, even though we're trying to keep track, we end up maybe getting D/c'd on one, but not realizing we weren't awarded mission bonus. (ergo, no credit for the kill)
The records they look at, if they can even look at them on that level will not show that you D/C'd, only that you haven't beaten that one yet.
Kind of like an on/off switch. You did, or you didn't. This especially sucks when we think it's the server that D/C'd us.
All that being said, try to recognize that it's not necessarily the GMs fault, but the system they're forced to work in.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
The ones complaining about not getting a response are either pertitioning and logging right after or have your chat windows closed!
Last night I had an issue with a timed "Protect Artifact" mission and I had a GM taling to me in 5 minutes! She was moving the artifact around (which I found totally hilar..hilir...um funny [too many grammer readers on this thread]) and within another 7 minutes helped me clear it!
I have actually had about 3 issues in the past week in CoV (pocket D actually) where either a council was inside a cellblock or a door was hidden behind rocks and every time I got a GM on my chat. They have always been extremely responsive and efficient in response time.
Kudos to them!
Kenja's Logitec G15 Masters Guide
Kenja's Concise Commands and Emotes Guide (I10)
Kenja's Links Guide for Badge Collectors
Visit SalsaVille!
You know I did just that and never got it (hence why I have never done this badge trial again) I was never awarded the badge and since they say I wasn't in there long enough, how could argue that I did my part and so forth. Here is the last reply with all the previous replies:
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Subject
Petition: I did not receive anythinf for Transendence Trial
Discussion Thread
Response (GM Bayla) 12/02/2004 11:09 PM
Hello,
Thank you for your patience while we investigated this matter. After reviewing all the game logs, it appears you were not in the mission map long enough, percentage-wise it was less than 70%. It appears other teammates were in this mission longer than your hero was, I'm afraid. One thing that can contribute to this happening is when other teammates begin attacking a mob on this mission map before all players have zoned in. Unfortunately we will not be able to reverse any losses in this matter, as we have verified that the system is working by design. Again we appreciate your patience on this matter while we reviewed this situation further and we apologize for the trouble this has caused.
Take care,
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Response (Troy)
11/24/2004 01:58 PM
Hi,
We thank you for your inquiry. We are escalating your petition to a Senior Customer Support Representative to further assist you. Once we have reviewed your inquiry someone will be in contact with you as soon as possible. Thank you.
Regards
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Customer (hidden)
11/24/2004 01:34 PM
I was on last night, Tuesday 11/23/04 when I finished the Transendence trial. It was approx between 10:30 and 12AM.
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Response (Michael) 11/24/2004 12:45 PM
Hello,
Thank you for contacting the City of ZHeroes support team. Please reply to this email with the date and time of completion of this trial. Once we have this information, we will be able to assist you further.
Thank you
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Customer (hidden)
11/24/2004 12:31 PM
I was in for the duration...nearly got killed by the pumicites. I was tp'd to mission door as was the entire team. I was the 5th person to an obelisk. One of our team mates, in fact, had died by an ambush. We did the obelisk test twice before getting it in unison. The team was then tp'd to head against the mob holding Sam Wincott. There was the usual pumicites, and a few magma lords and one HUGE White rock creature (can't remember name because I was too busy controlling the lords and pumicites) We fought 2 mobs in that fight the second one containing that large one. I know how missions work and in fact am an adamant leader of high regard (with any of my alts) in that I refuse to do any mission if any team member does not participate or worse if the person whose mish we're doing isn't cooperating or decides to leave halfway through ( I don't believe in any freebies for me or for others to take advantage of the team). I am not trying to cheat off a badge, but if I did my part to earn it I feel I should get it.
Thanks again
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Response (Michael)
11/24/2004 10:06 AM
Hello,
Thank you for contacting the City of Heroes support team. Were you in the final mission of the Trial for its duration. If you received the message that you were not in the mission long enough to receive the reward, then you may have been outside the mission while your team was inside defeating the enemies. Unfortunately, we cannot issue the reward for this trial if you were not present for it's duration.
Thank you
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Customer (hidden)
11/24/2004 10:02 AM
I believe the Transendence trial is 1:30 total. I saw a broadcast and joined with 1:25 left for the trial. My friend had joined before me and I was number 7 of the 8 people in the group. I was within the level range (lvl 15) and there were others there lvl 21 to 32 (which were obviuoly exemped). They all got the badge and the reward including the one who joined after me. The error I got was that I wasn't on long enough for reward. However, I reiterate, I wasn't the last one to join and the only one in the group NOT receiveing the badge. Please advise.
Thank you
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Server: Guardian , User Name: (hidden), Hero Name: Lady Megrim
Response (Dennis) 11/24/2004 09:07 AM
Hello,
How long did the entire trial take? Who was the first to arrive on the map, and how long after did you arrive? When you completed the mission, did you receive any system messages regarding it? What was your own level when you completed this trial?
Thanks!
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Customer (hidden) 11/23/2004 10:23 PM
Petition: XML Submission
Server: Guardian
I joined a Transendence team and spent the same time as everyone else. I did not receive reward nor badge. Why is that? Plz help...I was the only one in the group who did not get it
Question Reference #041123-001525
Product: City of Heroes
Date Created: 11/23/2004 10:23 PM
Last Updated: 12/02/2004 11:09 PM
Status: Solved
Department: Game Support
Game Account: (hidden)
PlayNC Account: (hidden)
Operating System: Unknown
CoH Game Server: None
Character Name:
GM Bayla
Customer Service
NC Interactive, Austin
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I am not one for freebies, as you can see from my response, but I did my part and really felt cheated from it. To those who petitioned and got your badges, grats, you shouldn't be complaining. Since then I tell everyone to meet at a door before entering...I have not been cheated out of a reward or badge since (I recount this email when I am asked "why?") and yes it still irks me to no end when I think of it 
Kenja's Logitec G15 Masters Guide
Kenja's Concise Commands and Emotes Guide (I10)
Kenja's Links Guide for Badge Collectors
Visit SalsaVille!
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GMs should be following a set of rules so that all players are treated equally.
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I agree with you, in part. But, there isn't just black and white. There are shades of gray as well. Sometimes a judgement call has to be made, and sometimes a judgement goes against, which really reeks, and sometimes it goes your way.
If you feel like you were ripped off badge wise, my best advice is to be firm, polite, and unrelenting in expressing why the policy that ripped you off is logically invalid. Speak their language, logic. A PM to the appropriate red name can't hurt, either.
Above all else, when corresponding, be very polite, give credit where it's due, but remind them of the flaws within the governing logic. Saying what about "that other guy" will do you no good. You'll have to demonstrate why you were ripped off. Was is some stupid, lesser known detail like "Must be in final mission for 80% of the time of the teammate who spent the longest time in the mission map. (if a teammate spent 10 minutes from start to finish, and has the longest time in the mission map, if you and others weren't in the map at least 8 minutes, you're just out of luck. )
Some told me that I was out of luck, and quoted some reference to it being at least 50%, another guy said 75%. The Head GM told me 80%.
My point was why is this considered the determining factor, and why doesn't everyone who's ever done or going to do a tf not told of this obscure, illogical conditional statement. I told them to either forkover the badge, or have a red name disclose this secret condition AND the reasoning behind it, or Email everyone with an active account and letting them know, as only 5-8% of the players read the forums.
I came across a level 50 who plays his toon very, very well, but never even knew the game had a forum. Go figure.
Your experience may differ, as will others. But, the experience our toons had in game on a tf was likely different also. So, with that in mind, be aware that not all situations are the same.
And for the record, each one of the GMs wanted to give me the badge, but were systematically unable to comply, as they simply don't have the authority. Only the senior and head GM's can make those calls, as far as I understand it.
best of luck getting what you want and deserve.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
Way back when badges were first introduced, I earned the "Gearsmasher" and "Banisher" badges. Now several issues later, I find myself without them, and unable to gain them. After a few days of mail exchanges, I was awarded them. I've found the GMS to be quite helpful!
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I agree with you, in part. But, there isn't just black and white. There are shades of gray as well. Sometimes a judgement call has to be made, and sometimes a judgement goes against, which really reeks, and sometimes it goes your way.
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From my anecdotal evidence there's a heirachy of GMs. When I did the "Protect Babylon from the Wailers" mission first time round it didn't complete. Petitioned, got a GM within 10 mins. He tried moving the column around - nothing. He then called in another GM who, after scouring the map, gave me a mission complete. Either the first guy was still learning the job (everyone has to) or he didn't have the tools to do the job but had enough to recognise a problem.
Either way shouting and cussing at a GM will get you nowhere, like any other tech support team you call it's not their fault when things go wrong they're just the guys at the pointy end trying to do their job as best they can 
They did this to me too. get used to it because people either defend them (the devs/GMs) or say tough luck.
I was in binder of the beasts for the duration and had to leave before the last mission for a few minutes, logged back in and team had just taken down infernal I believe. we got the glowies and got Baht'zul then I was the only one without the reward because I was "only" in there 53% of the time. If you're in a mission over half the time you should get the badge, this percentage crap with 70% is ludicrous, basically you take a 5 minute bathroom break and you've wasted several hours.
And they don't bother to check if you've been in 70% of the TF just the last mission.
This means anyone can just log off then come back near the end and get the reward. Which isn't fair at all but that seems to be their excuse for this system.
I also got blocked out of the server due to a login server problem, for about 10 minutes after getting mapservered, during the Burkholder TF. Got back in (was entering final mission door when Mapservered) and hit lag then got mission complete and no badge. Was with the group the whole time too...oh well.
Basically the known issues are unknown to most people, so if you do a badge mission or tf whose badge is bugged, most likely it's not listed in Known issues, even if it is a known issue. Being labeled as such means you don't get the badge for the mission/tf regardless, had this happen on that Bat'zul tf the first time I tried it along with the Mask Maker badge mission...
Basically you live a rather cursed existence if you are a badge collector in this game. Get used to it. I canceled my account til I7 since badges are such a hassle there's not much else for me to do unless I wanna PvP constantly. 
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2) Receiving the reward will count towards the badge. You don't need to see the rocket "take off" to get credit.
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Could you clarify? Does that mean that recieving the reward *is* the trigger for badge credit? And, if so, does already having the reward (temp power) mean that you don't get credit, as you can't recieve another until you've used your first?
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I believe things like this are on a "replace" system, meaning if you are awarded the temp power and you already have it, the one you have will be replaced with the one you just earned.