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That PFF and Dispersion display both graphics isn't a glitch,
[/ QUOTE ] I would argue that the DB should be reduced to form a bubble within the bubble of PFF. If DB is still displayed as a large bubble, and this is no different with PFF on or off, then the fact that the effect is limited by PFF and the graphic isn't, is imo glitchy.
I am in the bubble...I get the bonus. I am still in the bubble...I get no bonus? Players should be able to rely on the graphic of the bubble to know that they are getting protection. My .10
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Well, this is more a matter of preference than a glitch. I believe the Disp Bubble graphic is working as intended, but it can be confusing when the FF defender hits PFF.
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It shouldn't be too hard to test, though - just hit the FFG with a hold, and then with a confuse. If your teammates get the buff, it still buffs. If not, it doesn't.
[/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure why you think this would be dispositive. FF's and Eminators are immune to Confuse and Deceive every time I've seen this tried.
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I've heard it was possible. I haven't tried it yet (my highest controller is 20, and I haven't done any level 20+ content with her). Now I have to. Even though it probably won't work, I have to know.
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Does DB still put the bubble around a teammate when PFF is in operation? If not...then maybe the same test would be applicable to FF Gens. Does the bubble disappear around the Raiders? If I did, that would probalby be a strong indication the debuff is cancelled.
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That glitch we talked about is very common with the generators. I've seen bubbles persist on Sky Raiders after the generator exploded many many times in the past week (since hitting the 20s with my blaster).
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It seems very likely that the buff is auto and can't be turned off, especially on something like an eminator. As for as feelling like the hold stops the debuff on gens...
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Lately, the generators just don't feel that strong. I can bonesmasher them without build up more than half the time.
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Well, this is more a matter of preference than a glitch
[/ QUOTE ] Well, to be clear, I dont' think it's a "technical" glitch. But I think it is something they may not been considered or couldn't effectuate.
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I'm not sure why you think this would be dispositive. FF's and Eminators are immune to Confuse and Deceive every time I've seen this tried.
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I've heard it was possible. I haven't tried it yet (my highest controller is 20, and I haven't done any level 20+ content with her). Now I have to. Even though it probably won't work, I have to know.
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I seem to recall testing long ago that suggested DE enimators could be confused to buff players. I don't remember if this was considered a glitch, a bug, or intended. Its also possible this behavior was changed when the enimators were changed to not buff each other any more.
I don't specifically remember FF generator testing, though.
Edit:
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It seems very likely that the buff is auto and can't be turned off, especially on something like an eminator. As for as feelling like the hold stops the debuff on gens...
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Lately, the generators just don't feel that strong. I can bonesmasher them without build up more than half the time.
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Could this be related to the issue of DE enimators not buffing each other? I thought there was some concern of multiple FF generators buffing each other's defense to the point where teams couldn't hit them to turn them off, and therefore being essentially locked out of hitting anything (much like the DE cairns creating problems buffing each other's resistance to the point where you couldn't damage them to destroy them). I'm wondering if no eminator or generator-like device actually buffs itself or any other eminator-like thing anymore, which is why generators are now easy to hit.
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Good point on maybe not buffing themselves.
I have no idea.
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I'm not sure why you think this would be dispositive. FF's and Eminators are immune to Confuse and Deceive every time I've seen this tried.
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This is incorrect. FFGs are affected by confusion. In fact, when my illusionist was fighting Sky Raiders, it was my standard practice to Deceive the FFG into bubbling me. If the next spawn looked tough, and PA wasn't up, I sometimes used Hurricane + Gale to take the FFG along for the next fight as well (though it was usually more trouble than it was worth).
Edit: Just went and tested the DE emanators. If you confuse them, their buff stops working on the mobs, but if you hold them, it doesn't. I conclude that their buff aura is an auto power that can be redirected by confusion. Specifically, I brawled a Fungoid so he'd drop Fungi, then hit him with Blind. He ran out of the buff while I was Deceiving the Fungi, and the hold took effect. I Galed him back into the buff, and he stayed held until the confusion wore off the Fungi. I repeated the process, except for using Blind on both, and the Fungoid didn't get held while in the buff, even when the Fungi was held. I think I'll go annoy some Raiders...
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Does DB still put the individual bubble around a teammate when PFF is in operation? If not...then maybe the same test would be applicable to FF Gens. Does the bubble disappear around the Raiders? If it did, that would probalby be a strong indication the debuff is cancelled.
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Yes, the FFG's big bubble creates secondary bubbles. If you confuse one, you get a secondary bubble, and the mobs lose theirs.
Edit 2: Tested on the FFGs. Their big bubble is an auto power as well. If you confuse them, they bubble you, and the bubble doesn't go away when they're held. My original recollection (that the secondary bubbles went away when the FFG was held) was incorrect.
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This is incorrect. FFGs are affected by confusion.
[/ QUOTE ] Ah, then maybe the attacks were just missing. But now that I think about it, I do seem to remember my Ill/kin friend telling me that he had confused FF Gens. I think what I also recall was that Confusion did not make the eminators buff us. I never thought about whether it might not work on them even if it didn't buff us. I just assumed that if we were not getting buffed, then Eminators were immune to confusion.
In any event, thanks for testing and clearing this up.
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It shouldn't be too hard to test, though - just hit the FFG with a hold, and then with a confuse. If your teammates get the buff, it still buffs. If not, it doesn't.
[/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure why you think this would be dispositive. FF's and Eminators are immune to Confuse and Deceive every time I've seen this tried.
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Except that force field generators are in fact not immune to confuse.
I really suggest you either a) stop saying you have such a great grasp of all aspects of the game, or b) stop proving that you really don't. It just makes you look foolish.
Oh, and I already know what happens when you hold a force field generator that you've confused. But you wouldn't believe me in any case, so I'll just let you figure it out for yourself.
There's also the question of why, as a Radiation defender, you're allowing force field generators to be built so frequently that you have a strategy based around it. A lot of us unskilled folks prevent them from being built nearly every time.
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A lot of us unskilled folks prevent them from being built nearly every time.
[/ QUOTE ]Creating the FF gen is an interruptable event which means puttinga toggle on the Raider stops the gen from being created.....provided you are the first to aggro him....guess what happens when you are the first to aggro a mob in the spawn?
I never said I have perfect knowledge about the game. But unlike you, I recognize that I have imperfect knowledge and as such it gives me pause as to criticizing the devs about the choices they make.
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A lot of us unskilled folks prevent them from being built nearly every time.
[/ QUOTE ]Creating the FF gen is an interruptable event which means puttinga toggle on the Raider stops the gen from being created.....provided you are the first to aggro him....guess what happens when you are the first to aggro a mob in the spawn?
I never said I have perfect knowledge about the game. But unlike you, I recognize that I have imperfect knowledge and as such it gives me pause as to criticizing the devs about the choices they make.
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I routinely used Darkest Night to interrupt engineers. I don't recall much badness coming from this.
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I routinely used Darkest Night to interrupt engineers. I don't recall much badness coming from this.
[/ QUOTE ] DN has, IMO, the best of the Rad buffs. RI only debuffs Acc (and def, tho irrelevant to this discussion) which means the LT's and Bosses who can hit you through the -acc hit you for full damage, unlike DN.
If you get large enough spawns, RI will not hit them all and you can get killed on the alpha....i've seen this happen to Rads all the time who try and start the fight with RI. I've also seen DD's go down opening with DN on high levle mobs.
Before ED and I6, the debuff on RI and especially in the dual benefit of DN, that you could survive opening with those debuffs quite easily.
Kind of a long thread. As interesting as the discussions on comparitive defender strengths and the mechanics of the force field generators were, I have nothing constructive to add to them.
However, I would like to throw in my 2 cents on the Trick Arrow set. There were a few ideas tossed around here I agree with. Entangle should do more than just immobolize and pull flying stalkers out of the air in PvP, some of those activation times are overly long(particularly flash arrow - especially in comparison to it's benefits), and (for a debuff heavy set) some debuffs, particularly the -ACC debuffs, should be stronger. Either make the Flash arrow debuff better or add a -ACC debuff component to the Entangle arrow - I'd be happy with either.
I don't agree with either the concept that Trick Arrow should be completely redesigned or that it's particularly hard to use(seperate points - I know). I play TA like I would play a blaster(and I dont mean by overly focusing on my secondary): You pick your targets to get the maximum effectiveness of your AoE's and you try to draw a balance between effectiveness and grabbing too much aggro. The only difference is that while the blaster primarily attacks only hit points the trick arrow defender attacks whatever they feel like(I wish I could attack even more - there have been a few times where I've been begging to be able to pull an end debuff arrow out of the ol' quiver). It seems silly to complain because a mob runs off and I end up hitting only one guy with my AoE instead of the 4 or 5 I was shooting for when countless blasters have had to deal with that exact same problem since day 1. I would like to have glue arrow target an area like disruption arrow does though(personal preference). I like this style of play and it's this feel that makes my Trick Arrow defender fun.
Basically I want to be able to keep doing what I've been doing, but I want to do it better. Those early levels were particularly crappy. The mid levels aren't bad, and I'll defer to those with experiance about anything post 25(I'm right on the verge of Oil Slick and even the doom n' gloom posts about it I read can't curb my enthusiasm). This means, at the very least, an improvement on the debuffs would be nice. I don't need uberness, or even comparitive balance...but I would like this set to not peak at "ok".
Speaking of Oil Slick(my last point) - I dont like the idea of self igniting oil slicks. Not because they wouldn't be more effecient and effective(they would) but because I really like the concept of a power that combos. As far as I know, Oil Slick is the only power that has that effect and I would like to see more powers that have that kind of synergy - not have the one power with this feature get it's uniqueness removed, even considering the tragic unfairness TA/Pyschic Assault defenders must endure because of it 
Hypocrite that I am, I think having exploding arrow ditch it's lethal component for a fire one is a f'n brilliant idea though.
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Hypocrite that I am, I think having exploding arrow ditch it's lethal component for a fire one is a f'n brilliant idea though.
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Really, it should be half Lethal, half Fire - similar to Trip Mine. Grenades are lethal because of the explosion (very hot expanding gasses - fire) and the shrapnel of the grenade casing, and possibly whatever is inside (shards of metal - lethal).
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Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
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As to normal AVs, I have been able to stack enough knock with my energy blaster to knock them down occasionally (its possible this only works in tandem with someone else with knockback), although they are normally extremely resistant to single applications of knockback.
As to skill, I was referring to controlling KB in general, not on monsters specifically. When you do manage to knock over a monster or an AV, their KB resistance virtually always guarantees that it will be knockdown, not knockback, so control is not an issue in those fights specifically.
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And my larger bone to pick is.... how many other Defenders have half their powersets invalidated against the strongest opponents in the game? Holds, Sleeps, Disorients - all of these can be easily and predictably stacked to affect AVs during their vulnerable periods. KB/KD? You've gotta get the timing just right, hit them at just the right time, and even if you succeed you've managed to prevent them from attacking for two seconds... And Repel (the effect, not the power by that name) - which doesn't prevent them from attacking at all - has no effect on them whatsoever!! What's wrong with this picture? I get that they want to make AVs and Monsters nasty and scary. I'm not sure I get why that means they should be so much more effectively resistant to "soft controls" like KB and keepaway powers than they are to the big controller guns that shut them down entirely for long stretches!
Heck. I'd vote for nixing the whole freakin "purple arrow" system entirely and just making some variant of PvP suppression apply to AVs and Monsters.
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Heck. I'd vote for nixing the whole freakin "purple arrow" system entirely and just making some variant of PvP suppression apply to AVs and Monsters.
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I would swear this is what they have currently just working in reverse. It supresses the Monster/AV's mez resistance.
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Heck. I'd vote for nixing the whole freakin "purple arrow" system entirely and just making some variant of PvP suppression apply to AVs and Monsters.
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I would swear this is what they have currently just working in reverse. It supresses the Monster/AV's mez resistance.
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I thought the purple arrows were on simple timers that raised and lowered their MAG resistance completely unrelated to the amount of mezzing flying about.
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Heck. I'd vote for nixing the whole freakin "purple arrow" system entirely and just making some variant of PvP suppression apply to AVs and Monsters.
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I would swear this is what they have currently just working in reverse. It supresses the Monster/AV's mez resistance.
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I thought the purple arrows were on simple timers that raised and lowered their MAG resistance completely unrelated to the amount of mezzing flying about.
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I wrote that after spending an hour working out. I wasn't thinking straight. Your right. Thats what happens when you don't hydrate properly.
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Grenades are lethal because of the explosion (very hot expanding gasses - fire) and the shrapnel of the grenade casing
[/ QUOTE ] Standard grenades in the military do their damage from concussion and shrapnel...most of the damage is from shrapnel. The fire damage is incidental if there is any. There are incindiary grenades which are intended light things on fire. Whether Exploding Arrow is one or the other is arbitrary...but the idea that it would be all smash/lethal is totally plausible even if it is not convenient.
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Grenades are lethal because of the explosion (very hot expanding gasses - fire) and the shrapnel of the grenade casing
[/ QUOTE ] Standard grenades in the military do their damage from concussion and shrapnel...most of the damage is from shrapnel. The fire damage is incidental if there is any. There are incindiary grenades which are intended light things on fire. Whether Exploding Arrow is one or the other is arbitrary...but the idea that it would be all smash/lethal is totally plausible even if it is not convenient.
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Have you missed the giant expanding fireball when it explodes? I realize you're talking more about real grenades, but there's CLEARLY enough fire to ignite a slick there...
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Grenades are lethal because of the explosion (very hot expanding gasses - fire) and the shrapnel of the grenade casing
[/ QUOTE ] Standard grenades in the military do their damage from concussion and shrapnel...most of the damage is from shrapnel. The fire damage is incidental if there is any. There are incindiary grenades which are intended light things on fire. Whether Exploding Arrow is one or the other is arbitrary...but the idea that it would be all smash/lethal is totally plausible even if it is not convenient.
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I think your on to something there though mieux. An incindiery explosive Arrow. Something that explodes, and drops ignite patches like the demolitionists do. Hey, now that would be a usefull Arrow power.
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Grenades are lethal because of the explosion (very hot expanding gasses - fire) and the shrapnel of the grenade casing
[/ QUOTE ] Standard grenades in the military do their damage from concussion and shrapnel...most of the damage is from shrapnel. The fire damage is incidental if there is any. There are incindiary grenades which are intended light things on fire. Whether Exploding Arrow is one or the other is arbitrary...but the idea that it would be all smash/lethal is totally plausible even if it is not convenient.
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My point was primarily that Shrapnel (ie Lethal) should remain the primary component. If it's incendiary then likely as not there shouldn't be any lethal or smashing damage worth mentioning. Fragmentation grenades though, are all about Lethal damage.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
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Have you missed the giant expanding fireball when it explodes?
[/ QUOTE ] I skipped this power. I generally hate AoE knockback. Especially AoE knockback with radial vectors. I've teamed with all of one E-Arrow using toon. I do recall fire graphics...I also recall wanting to choke the guy for using that attack.
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My point was primarily that Shrapnel (ie Lethal) should remain the primary component.
[/ QUOTE ] Ok.
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Have you missed the giant expanding fireball when it explodes?
[/ QUOTE ] I skipped this power. I generally hate AoE knockback. Especially AoE knockback with radial vectors. I've teamed with all of one E-Arrow using toon. I do recall fire graphics...I also recall wanting to choke the guy for using that attack.
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Stop the hate! Don't choke us for using this lovely power. The KB does go directly away from you, so you can easily accomodate for it with just a little positioning. Better yet, use the old hover above/KD instead of KB tactic. It's really not a bad power. Same damage as fistfull, much longer range, wider aoe with more max targets...what's not to like?
That said, I'd be ecstatic if they changed the smashing component to fire.
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The KB does go directly away from you
[/ QUOTE ] is it the same trajectory as Energy Torrent? My memory was that it was more like a footstomp knockback. But as I said...I've seen this power used all of one mission...and every time it got fired I'm like "Who keeps doing that?!!?!!"
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I was under the impression that NPCs don't use toggles, and that all their powers are "clicks." Which is why using a Hold or Disorient on a flying enemy doesn't cause them to fall from the sky. Did that change?
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If you hold or stun a behemoth, his invincibility will drop immediately. The same goes for a ruin mage and his dispersion bubble. Some (most, maybe all) flying NPCs have flight as an inherent, rather than a toggle, which means you need -fly to drop them from the sky.
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