Paragon City: Galaxy City Zone Update
By
Alodarn,
Posted on: 2006-01-26 14:28 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Basically, the best ways to tell you're dealing with a Mary Sue/Marty Stu character is :
<ul type="square">[*]Waaaaay too much knowledge. Particularly if it's some information that can't be viably explained[*]Directly related to everything that occurs in the series.[*] Named the character after yourself, or are willing to answer to the name of your character.[*]Tragic youth.[*]Immune to death (at least, until the end of the series).[*]Choosen by random cause to get various abilities.[/list]And, of course, the most notable : Overly able to ignore the laws of cause and effect. More information can be found here, which despite the incredibly bad background colors, is a very useful essay on the subject. Also, a google search for Mary Sue litmus tests may also give some help.
Mary Sue's and Marty Stus are most common in younger writers who want to associate with a character they're taking as a position voice, but overdo it. Mary Sue/Marty Stus aren't always a bad thing - a well enough written one is ignorable - but they tend to break any sense of immersion in a storyline. Even ones such as McCaffery's Menolly, who isn't a horrible example (although a bit obvious of one), make the storyline feel much less complete and more artificial. Bad ones, like Wes from Star Trek : The Next Generation, make people want to grind their teeth. Also, Mary Sues have a nasty habit of making every other character, even other main characters, expendable to the point of ridiculousness, which tends to hurt the story.
While I understand that we're talking about a world where people can and do regularly fly... Well, you have to understand that people are willing to overlook the obvious errors, but won't overlook cheesy dialog or campy storylines. See Star Trek, Star Wars. Mary Sues are most common in fan fiction, but canon ones exist as well.
Back to the course selection...
Problem 1 :
[ QUOTE ]
Cassiopeia, the lovely psionicist who gave her life during the early days of World War II; and Matthew Barnes, born and raised in Equinox, who enlisted during World War II and joined the 1st Hero Brigade as M-1.
[/ QUOTE ]
Badge texts (viewable here, at vidiotmaps.com, or from the comfort of your own client) read :
Tank : [ QUOTE ]
M1, a hero from World War I, is honored today with a statue in Galaxy City.
[/ QUOTE ]
Patriot also reads that Cassiopeia rescued the planet from a comet and was recognized as a citizen of all countries, far from a political figure. While this is not the Shivan comet that she defended us from (five heroes died assaulting Shiva, Cassiopeia acted single-handedly), this may confuse newer readers, who only notice the Patriot badge in Atlas Park. Using a seperate hero may be preferable, but is not necessary.
Suggested Revision -
[ QUOTE ]
Matthew Barnes, born and raised in Equinox, who enlisted into the 1st Hero Brigade as M-1.
[/ QUOTE ]
Problem 2:
[ QUOTE ]
Her parents moved into a small but cozy house in Paragon Heights, and Kelly grew up there through the 1930s and 40s.
One cold night in late December, 1951, nineteen-year-old Kelly was hurrying home from her secretarial job.
[/ QUOTE ]
Galaxy Girl is stated as being part of the "Crey secretarial pool" before becoming a hero. Crey's existance as a notable section in Paragon City occured more recently. Not only would bumping the date up be more consistent with this information, it would also help deal with problem 3.
Suggested Revision -[ QUOTE ]
Her parents moved into a small but cozy house in Paragon Heights, and Kelly grew up there through the 1970s and 80s.
One cold night in late December, 1986, nineteen-year-old Kelly was hurrying home from her secretarial job.
[/ QUOTE ]
This would give her a station in the relatively new Crey Biochem group without making us fanboys go "wha?", while still leaving enough time for enough big rescues for a major statue and the renaming of an area to occur.
Problem 3 :
The last section of this text suggests that an older Galaxy Girl rescued random civillians: while noble, this does not go along the lines of existing plaque text, which states that Galaxy Girl healed Ms. Liberty at the last second rather than herself. Rewriting the text to fit that circumstance may be preferable to reconning the plaque, as well as more thematic.
The name M-1 is probably due to Matthew Barnes being a member of the 1st Hero Brigade. Was Hero-1 a hero at that time?
Just a thought.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Hi folks,
Thank you for your patience. I am in the process of finishing the revised draft of the Galaxy City story. For the record, each piece does go through an approval process, but mistakes do happen. Obviously, I will work harder to double check my facts before posting - but I know you guys will keep me honest. 
For your information, these are the key changes/corrections:
* Kelly Graham did get her powers in the 1950s.
* She did not, however, work for Crey. That was an error and the plaque by her statue will be fixed.
* M-1 was a World War II hero, not a World War I hero. It's not a retcon, it's a typo in the Tank badge. It will be fixed. He's named after the rifle (most likely).
* Cassiopeia - all her facts are still true, but she just gets a cameo in this write-up. I'm sure she'll be spotlighted down the road.
* Paragon Heights had neighborhoods named after the stars. Galaxy Girl took her name from being inspired by the neighborhood ... which then gets renamed after her. I like the balance that creates.
* This isn't in the story, per se, but comments such as "mutation" are more than likely correct.
* She had a sidekick, named Dauntless. He died heroically, saving her.
* She retired in the 60s, after Dauntless's death.
* An old woman during the time of the Rikti invasion, Kelly Graham still did her part. She was likely good friends with Miss Liberty, and knew Ms. Liberty well - having acted as a mentor.
* She dies so that Ms. Liberty (and others) can escape.
Anyone see anything that I missed?
cheers,
Arctic Sun
[ QUOTE ]
Hi folks,
Thank you for your patience. I am in the process of finishing the revised draft of the Galaxy City story. For the record, each piece does go through an approval process, but mistakes do happen. Obviously, I will work harder to double check my facts before posting - but I know you guys will keep me honest.
For your information, these are the key changes/corrections:
* Kelly Graham did get her powers in the 1950s.
* She did not, however, work for Crey. That was an error and the plaque by her statue will be fixed.
* M-1 was a World War II hero, not a World War I hero. It's not a retcon, it's a typo in the Tank badge. It will be fixed. He's named after the rifle (most likely).
* Cassiopeia - all her facts are still true, but she just gets a cameo in this write-up. I'm sure she'll be spotlighted down the road.
* Paragon Heights had neighborhoods named after the stars. Galaxy Girl took her name from being inspired by the neighborhood ... which then gets renamed after her. I like the balance that creates.
* This isn't in the story, per se, but comments such as "mutation" are more than likely correct.
* She had a sidekick, named Dauntless. He died heroically, saving her.
* She retired in the 60s, after Dauntless's death.
* An old woman during the time of the Rikti invasion, Kelly Graham still did her part. She was likely good friends with Miss Liberty, and knew Ms. Liberty well - having acted as a mentor.
* She dies so that Ms. Liberty (and others) can escape.
Anyone see anything that I missed?
cheers,
Arctic Sun
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't see anything, and once again, thank you for fixing the mistakes.
[ QUOTE ]
* Paragon Heights had neighborhoods named after the stars. Galaxy Girl took her name from being inspired by the neighborhood ... which then gets renamed after her. I like the balance that creates.
[/ QUOTE ]
Very cool sounding. And everything sounds great. On behalf of the story-<bleeps>, I apologize if we got a little intense. Some of us get a touch OCD about this stuff.
You can always trust a Canadian to take the darn high road!
Well done, although I will always harbor a hope for a WWI super hero!
Thanks Arctic.
The Dark Blade
"I've felt your mouse on me before, you perv...." - Troy Hickman
Paragon Wiki
[ QUOTE ]
On behalf of the story-<bleeps>, I apologize if we got a little intense. Some of us get a touch OCD about this stuff.
[/ QUOTE ]
You'd think we were comic book fans or something...
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Anyone see anything that I missed?
Nope, looks good.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
I concur....looks good to me.
BTW, Arctic, did you happen to get my PM? 
Looks good, Arctic Fox!
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone see anything that I missed?
[/ QUOTE ]
Just that Cassiopia definitely needs to be fleshed out more and given enough respect that she *really* stands out on her own.
Galaxy Girl saves Ms. Liberty, gets a zone named after her.
Cassiopia saves the *WORLD* on her own and gets a plaque and a statue.
And I vote that the Meteor that Cassiopia destroyed be related to the Shivan Meteor if at all possible! There's gotta be a way to tie it all together! 
Still here, even after all this time!
[ QUOTE ]
And I vote that the Meteor that Cassiopia destroyed be related to the Shivan Meteor if at all possible! There's gotta be a way to tie it all together!
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, now that you mention it, it almost sounds like that story is begging to be written.
Y'know, Its kind of amusing though...
A Redname did something, the players protested it, and yet the protestors *didn't* get beamed into deep space!
[ QUOTE ]
Well done, although I will always harbor a hope for a WWI super hero!
[/ QUOTE ]
The only thing is, if the basic info from The Web of Arachnos is correct, there really were not any heroes - they would of been very lowpowered if there were.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
* M-1 was a World War II hero, not a World War I hero. It's not a retcon, it's a typo in the Tank badge. It will be fixed. He's named after the rifle (most likely).
[/ QUOTE ]
I always figured he was named after the M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank. Although looking it up online, I see that those weren't introduced until '78, so that would sort of put it a little past the time of a WWII hero...
Then he must of been named after this m1
[ QUOTE ]
* M-1 was a World War II hero, not a World War I hero. It's not a retcon, it's a typo in the Tank badge.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, a typo. After all, can't have any heroes around before Mary Sue--I mean Statesman--showed up, can we?
[ QUOTE ]
Well done, although I will always harbor a hope for a WWI super hero!
[/ QUOTE ]
If the Web of Arachnos book is to be believed, the odds for a WWI hero are pretty slim as States and Lord Recluse kind of opened the genie's bottle so to speak after WWI, ushering in a new era of superheroes, 'the likes which had not been seen since the Golden Age of Greece.'
Edit: Doh...Leech beat me to it...by a loooong shot...gotta actually start reading "all" the posts before I reply.
[ QUOTE ]
Y'know, Its kind of amusing though...
A Redname did something, the players protested it, and yet the protestors *didn't* get beamed into deep space!
[/ QUOTE ]
*looks araound*
Nope, Arctic isn't up here in W_1's orbital space platform of doom... Maybe he'll visit tomorrow.
Take 2
[ QUOTE ]
Nope, Arctic isn't up here in W_1's orbital space platform of doom... Maybe he'll visit tomorrow.
[/ QUOTE ]
Orbital space platform of doom, eh? Color me intrigued. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
cheers,
Arctic Sun
Weaver_Ones post from - Massive Shiny Orbital Laser Cannons of DEATH! [Re: syniq]
#69918 - 09/10/05 03:22 AM
Quote:
________________________________________
ok ok ok...wait. What if I...have my wife, who also got an invitation, take a screenshot, then write a 1,000-word description of it, and then I draw a picture based on that description? Would that be allowed?
Or...maybe...If I took a Polaroid photo of my monitor, then photocopied it, and then used that to make a sand painting. Could I show the sand painting?
EDIT: OR!! What if SHE took a Polaroid of a sandpainting I did based on her description? Would THAT be ok?
Mwahahaha!
________________________________________
*Calmly puts Arachnos[tm] laboratory goggles on; punches big red button on strange looking console*
"...sigh..."
*Quietly listens for 'boom' noise of lasers taking out a small section of land across from syniq's home*
"Ha! Next time wont be a warning shot!"
*grumbles to self*
"Damned sharks, couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. I should have never hired sharks to pilot my orbital DEATH cannons... This is TOTALLY the last time I take any advice from Captain Mako."
*yells in syniq's general direction*
"You'd better feel lucky that you didn't mention anything about miming that screenshot by doing charades, and you would have been SOOO screwed if you had tried to then take another polaroid of the charades!"
*pauses a brief moment to reflect on the use of Massive Shiny Orbital Laser Cannons of DEATH*
"Ah, yes. Excellent, a very good use of all that 'development' profit from City Of Heroes!"
*lurks back towards Arachnos lab*
"Oh, and Antisocial, you might not want to go outside and look up. It'll take me a few hours to re-calibrate the cannons...er, I mean, set up some 'special gifts' I have prepared for you and your tracing characters idea..."
*laughs maniacly on his way back to the lab*
W1
[edit: thanks Gladius. note: W1=artist, not author. ]
Edited by Weaver_One (09/10/05 03:31 AM)
Much better, very well done.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
I dunno, I always thought Statesman was too much of your classic "Lead Patriotic Character" stereotype (although a pretty good one) to be a real Mary Sue.
Kind of like a blend between Captain America and Superman that most people think of when they think "Generic American Superhero Lead".
Y'know, like Major Glory in Dexter's Lab, or Minuteman in Freedom Force?
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*