Castle - status of "hidden" Stalkers keeping aggro
Uhm, that would allow you to Hide, AS, Hide, then AS again if you could get your recharge quick enough. All without fear of retaliation. That's a very bad thing indeed and likely the reason it is as it is.
It would seem more logical to simply put a 5 second suppression (I cannot believe I said that!) on it so that you can't abuse the situation.
Now, all that being said, please remember, I've not played the stalker (or any other Villain) at all yet. It may be that you can't possibly lower recharge enough on AS for such an exploit. If you can't, it still begs the question, how are you disappearing from something you just stabbed? 
The thing about that is if you attack and then hide, they still know you are there.
You have to run out of agro range, so they loose you. Then you can even follow them back and they won't agro.
Just run out of range. Be able to hide in plain sight is what placate is for.
Its like the first predator movie, they saw you AS their friend.. they know you are there even if they can't see you. You must run away so they can't see you. Even if you get hit you can always circle back and get em.
over here... over here...
turn around... turn around...
...anytime.
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The thing about that is if you attack and then hide, they still know you are there.
You have to run out of agro range, so they loose you. Then you can even follow them back and they won't agro.
Just run out of range. Be able to hide in plain sight is what placate is for.
Its like the first predator movie, they saw you AS their friend.. they know you are there even if they can't see you. You must run away so they can't see you. Even if you get hit you can always circle back and get em.
over here... over here...
turn around... turn around...
...anytime.
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Ahh, ok, that makes sense now. If you have to move away and come back regardless, it's not that big of a deal. And, having to use two skills, instead of one, in order to hide in plain site works as well. Thanks.
Yeah, Hide isn't a click-and-recharge power. It already HAS a 5-second suppression on it exactly as you suggested! 
But in the present scheme of things, hit-and-run tactics just don't work (unless you like to emply hit-and-run-and-run-and-run-and-run tactics), and the Stalker archetype has no more health than a blaster. Think of a "melee blaster" with one hell of a single-target alpha strike, and that's the Stalker.
Not complaining though. Doesn't solo lower levels as well as other archetypes, but it's a damned fun class later on. Tricky to group, though, too. Can't just play it like a squishy brute.
50 Bots/Traps MM, 50 Thugs/Pain MM, 50 Demons/Thermal MM
*Stuck in a single-AT rut since 2006*
my problem with the way baddies can see you and follow you is the fact that your allies can't...
And you really don't get much of a bonus to defense from just hide.
I understand the idea that when you AS someone, they drop dead and their allies are like "huh, my buddy just died, attack!" But the idea of "hey, lets chase that invisible thing for 2 minutes while it tries to get out of aggro range."
The problem is, the game has [censored] for LoS rules. It makes no sense how when you round a corner, they continue seeing you, despite the fact that they should lose LoS.
We'll use the predator idea again, when he ran, he didn't have to run far at all. just enough that they lost sight of him.
This was from my last batch of Responses on the Beta Forums:
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Placate issues
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There is a bug with placate (which I did not know was a bug, until geko told me!) in that it is supposed to completely remove you from the targets hate list. That means, if you placate and get out of the critters visual range, they will not chase you when Placate wears off -- they no longer know about you. I'll be working with Supermartin and his AI team post launch to get this working properly.
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So, that will take care of part of the problem. As for the rest, it isn't likely to change, until one of the AI guys gets a substantial amount of time scheduled for it. In other words, it is something I want to see fixed, but there is no ETA as to when or if it will be dealt with.
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This was from my last batch of Responses on the Beta Forums:
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Placate issues
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There is a bug with placate (which I did not know was a bug, until geko told me!) in that it is supposed to completely remove you from the targets hate list. That means, if you placate and get out of the critters visual range, they will not chase you when Placate wears off -- they no longer know about you. I'll be working with Supermartin and his AI team post launch to get this working properly.
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So, that will take care of part of the problem. As for the rest, it isn't likely to change, until one of the AI guys gets a substantial amount of time scheduled for it. In other words, it is something I want to see fixed, but there is no ETA as to when or if it will be dealt with.
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Weeee!!! Gotta love a Dev who is still posting at this hour!
Thank you Castle.
I do realize that this is a stupid AI issue and not a quick fix but I wanted to know if the devs agreed that it was indeed an issue. Glad to know that at least YOU agree.
Thanks for the feedback.
Personally I would like to see Placate work on more mobs than just one.
Maybe like how Taunt works on 5 mobs or how Blind has a chance to affect more than one mob.
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Think of a "melee blaster" with one hell of a single-target alpha strike, and that's the Stalker.
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A melee blaster with status protection. Makes a big difference in the later game and PvP. I don't mean this to be argumentative. I just want to point out what seems to often be ignored. Look at the entire package when one is considering how good or bad a certain aspect is.
In addition, teamed with a Dominator or any villain with any kind of hold power they become more like Scrappers with an extreme alpha strike. Once Placate is fixed even more tactical options will open up.
I personally felt that their stealth was fine. I never expected to be able to kill, hide, kill, etc. Once I shoot my AB wad then its good old fashion fighting time. Being able to attack, hide, attack, etc. is a Ganker, not a Stalker.
I have no troubles dealing with enemy agro. Choose your targets well and dont try to go toe-to-toe surrounded by enemies (melee and ranged). Move! What do you think all that junk like crates and such (world geometry) is for? Decoration? You think thats air youre breathing?
Hit-and-run down the long open hall doesn't work, true. One gives the enemies too many attacks before you can get out of range. However, make them chase you all around a room with objects or around bends in halls and you can whittle their numbers down taking very little damage.
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I personally felt that their stealth was fine. I never expected to be able to kill, hide, kill, etc. Once I shoot my AB wad then its good old fashion fighting time. Being able to attack, hide, attack, etc. is a Ganker, not a Stalker.
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The problem here is that you can use it in PvP - players lose track of you when you hide. It is just mobs who don't. Fixing this issue would be a big boon to Stalkers in PvE, where they need boons. Would make the inevitable PvP nerfs easier to swallow.
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I personally felt that their stealth was fine. I never expected to be able to kill, hide, kill, etc. Once I shoot my AB wad then it's good old fashion fighting time. Being able to attack, hide, attack, etc. is a Ganker, not a Stalker.
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I guess I want to play a ganker then...
It's not that I want to AS, then automatically be hidden and not get any agro. I want to AS, then get a set of powers that I can use in in some combination to try to get rid of the agro I may have just gained, then hide, then AS again. It would be a slow, determined rate of killing things, but I would find it extremely fun.
I don't want stalkers to become scrappers with a huge alpha strike. I think of stalkers as anti-tankers. We manage agro, but we manage it by trying not to get it rather than trying to get it. Having more or better status effects (+def, +res) is exactly the opposite of what I'm talking about, because then you're relying on other things than not getting agro (or getting rid of agro). I'd really like to see a stalker secondary that gives you lots of placate-like powers, and forgoes any +def or +res at all.
But that's just me. You probably don't agree.
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it still begs the question, how are you disappearing from something you just stabbed?
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<In best english voice over from an old chinese kung fu movie>
Ha! Silly Fool WE ARE NINJA!
Poof I am hidden from view
I played a Stalker all throughout Beta. Found that once you get Super Speed, the issue is moot. I would AS, get the heck outta Dodge, then turn right back around and AS again.
Just put End Redux in SS, and Recharge in AS. You will find that you become a major force to be reckoned with 
Locked In
lvl 50 Tech/Blaster
Member of the Justice Corps
A tip to the OP, if you are going jitsu secondary get the trops....it helps, toss the trops on a door way, run in AS one guy, run away...granted I have not tested this, just something that I thought would be good to try out. My only question is, will you be able to rehide even though the trops are doing damage?
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A tip to the OP, if you are going jitsu secondary get the trops....it helps, toss the trops on a door way, run in AS one guy, run away...granted I have not tested this, just something that I thought would be good to try out. My only question is, will you be able to rehide even though the trops are doing damage?
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Yeah, you can still hide while the caltrops do damage. And it works rather well. The enemies slow, run around like idiots and then head back to where they came from. If you do it right, they can't get past the trops.
Slotting smoke flash with a few accuracies helps a lot, I personally didn't take caltrops because I'm not a "run" kind of person.
For the OP, you're nailing my entire concept actually. The trick here is it's going to be a long time until you can do it completely. Grab fear powers from the presence pool (manages aggro via fear) later /ninjitsu powers such as smoke flash and blinding powder also acheive the effect. As for getting chased, don't forget that if you get in over your head the fact that they're still chasing you doesn't impact your ability to rehide and pop a quick critical on the unfortunate first SOB to run around the corner. Many times that can be enough to tip the odds in your favor, or chip away at the army that's chasing you.
For _castle_ I assume this would apply to smoke flash as well, as it applies the placate state without the temporary pseudo-hide? Just curious if it's a state-based bug we're talking about here, or a power-based bug. News to me either way, I thought it was working as intended!
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In other words, it is something I want to see fixed,
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This, to me, is the important part of the reply. It's on a dev's wish-list, not just ours.
I'm a little confused on how adding in the code...
{if hidden(toon) then removeFromHateList(all)}
can't be accomplished at the same time as the other bug Castle talks about, but I don't work for Cryptic.
I fail to see the point of one of the early replies that claimed that a stalker can simply hide, then AS and rinse-repeat, either. He seemed to imply that this would be an automatic process.
Stealth suppression is 8 or so seconds after the last time you are hit or after you attacked. It's NOT easy to re-hide w/o placating. Even if you manage to find cover w/o an enemy chasing you, that's 8 whole seconds of sitting there doing nothing. So that part is already balanced.
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I'd really like to see this resolved because I love the stalker concept and this just breaks it horribly, IMHO.
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Really? to me it makes perfect sense. They are still hunting you even though you are "hidden". Personally I have used this to great effect. Several battles I struck from hide, ran around a bit till hide came back and struck again, I could care less they were following me, I only cared that I got a crit from hide.
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A tip to the OP, if you are going jitsu secondary get the trops....it helps, toss the trops on a door way, run in AS one guy, run away...granted I have not tested this, just something that I thought would be good to try out. My only question is, will you be able to rehide even though the trops are doing damage?
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This does NOT work. Every time the trops deal damage, you are unhidden. Once a hero lands on your trops and takes damage, you will be visible, even if you placate that hero, you won't be able to AS him due to the damage dealt by the trops canceling your placate effect.
that sucks
and replying to the post 2 above mine, i've also run around corners and crit'd while hidden, but it'd be even better if we could just AS them
even if they're searching for us...we're INVISIBLE they shouldn't be able to see us
it takes 10 secs to get hidden, that should be plenty long enough of a penalty to not attack or be attacked to let us do our signature move again
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Once a hero lands on your trops and takes damage, you will be visible,
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True
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even if you placate that hero, you won't be able to AS him due to the damage dealt by the trops canceling your placate effect.
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Erm... not sure about that one. I team with a stalker on a regular basis and she still gets off AS after caltrops are down when followed by a placate. It holds.
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My AE Story Arcs:
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I like the Predator analogy, but the thing is... the Predator didn't have to run all the way to the other end of the freakin jungle and back again to stay invisible.
All you should have to do is run out of sight long enough for them to lose the lock.
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My AE Story Arcs:
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but if they couldnt see you in the first place why can they see you now
I know that this was an issue in Beta that you said (I believe) that you were going to look into.
Could you please give us an update as to what, if anything, is the solution?
For those not in the know, when you are hidden and attack something, that mob stays aggro'd to you even if you become hidden again. From what I remember, Castle said that this is standard mob behavior and you need to get out of aggro range to get them off of you. But part of being a stalker is being able to hide when needed. This behavior negates that ability.
I'd really like to see this resolved because I love the stalker concept and this just breaks it horribly, IMHO.