Netherian

Honestly, the only large problem with the Hollows is that you were pointed at it 3-5 levels too soon. Very few teams run street-sweeping missions together, those are usually done solo. For me and the folks I hung out with, this was even true "back in the day". At best, they were duo'd. They simply do not have the appeal or the reward to attract groups. I mean, when is the last time you heard someone shout "LFT for Street Sweep!"?

So, the issue with the zone could have been fixed by pointing the heroes to it at level 8 or 10, when they could handle the lower end street sweeps but still be challenged by the numbers, or even removing the pointing finger all together.

Alternatively, just reducing the size of the street spawns accomplishes the same thing, but then it's not really a hazard zone anymore. It's simply going to be a zone that lacks a trainer.

For all of the folks requesting a Hollows-style zone be added to CoV or that the Hollows become a shared PvE zone, please, dear lord, NO! I hate the Hollows with a passion simply because of the way you're pointed at it and the fact that you're thrown at it too early. Let's not forget that it is also designed in such a way to be very nearly mutually exclusive with the rest of the content.

The VEATS are going to be welcome additions, the Midnight arcs are going to be welcome additions, this is going to be "that's nice, more incentive to actually avoid any semblence of depth for Heroes". Not to sound entirely negative, it is nice that work has been done not to push people out of it when they arrive at level 5 expecting to actually be able to do the street sweeps (sure, doable in SG groups, but not likely to find a PuG for it) and find that they've either got to waste a lot of time respawning or wait a few levels, however it wasn't really the area that needed the most work. In my opinion, it was already exactly what it needed to be, a nice alternative to running the standard contact string. Sewers until 8 and radio's until you get your raptor pack was already more efficient for levelling. As such, why not spruce up the old contacts to make the enjoyable and remove the necessity of either dropping the "Speak with Wincott" mission or running to talk to him to clear it by simply dropping that aggravating mission. The zone hasn't been new for 4 years now, I don't think most players need to be told it exists.

Uhm, I'd wait until after Stamina for Death Shroud, but I'd not leave it out. I don't slot it for damage, just accuracy and endred. Fury makes it's damage more than noticeable and added to the PBAE utility toggles, you can lay waste to entire spawns of minions while killing the Lt. or Boss.

Cloak of Darkness is nice, but only really a necessity if you're going to PvP or took a travel power other than Super Jump with an opener of Combat Jumping. CJ will give you immobilization protection, but the two should stack for PvP and then there is the +Perception for PvP as well. Nice for spec-ops and such too, but not essential.

In regards to Cloak of Fear and Oppressive Gloom; if I'm remembering correctly, OG can only affect minions. However, the fact that the endurance cost is nearly non-existant is nice. But, if you don't have an ae immob, you end up losing fury (and patience) chasing down all the mobs that your Death Shroud would otherwise have killed.

Cloak of Fear will affect up to Lt.'s on its own and stacks with Touch of Fear to handle bosses more readily. There is no hold, as some people refer to it. It's simply that the Fear cowering code is used, rather than the Fear scatter code that is used with Rain powers. Any time the feared mob takes damage, it gets a chance to run or attack.

My personal preference is for Cloak of Fear as it doesn't scatter the mobs and stacks with ToF. Using both early is handy on Boss fights, but it is endurance intensive. I do intend to pick Oppressive Gloom back up, but most likely not until I get my patron ae immobilization.

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I hate when people respond to stuff like this with their own limited agenda. That's why I'll keep this short...

Toggle-dropping is one of the only useful things a Dominator brings to the table in PVP. This is from experience (I have a 40 Dom and PVP a lot). Holds don't do anything thanks to the Break Free candy stores in every PVP zone, and Dom damage is the lowest in either game. On a small team or in a massive villain-vs-hero battle, the best way I can help my team is to plug away at Scrappers and Tankers with my Dominator toggle-dropper melee powers. Without these working reliably (and they only drop 1 toggle per hit), I would really be dead weight. Please keep that in mind when you're reducing toggle-dropper powers. Thanks.

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Yet, the second that hold lands it drops every single toggle, does it not? So, it's not useless at all (assuming I'm correct), it's simply that you have to build up your Domination bar first to get it to land by yourself.

Melee toggle dropping doesn't need reduced, it needs removed. No melee AT can take away your abilities without defeating you. Yet, those with melee toggle droppers do that to the melee AT's, which turns them into blasters with hit points. Tankers get it worst than anyone else, they have very litttle damage.

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Well, I, for one, am certainly glad to see Blasters get their come-uppance in PvP. After all, we all know they're running around, one-shotting everyone with Brawl and Sprint.

I bet with maximum Defiance and Build-Up and Aim, they could one-shot a tank!

This is a nerf, folks.

It disheartens me to see those of you who play primarily meleers actually celebrating that another AT is getting nerfed.

There's an AT that definitely needs... let's call it "balancing"... in PvP, and it ain't Blasters.

This just makes it that much harder for Blasters to deal with that AT in PvP.

Kudos to you, Jack. Seriously. You've helped clarify some things for me today.

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Nice attempt at sidelining. No one is worried about blasters with brawl. But a blaster with an Energy Secondary outmelees Brutes regularly. What's more, toggle dropping was put in place as a result of the insanely high defenses specific Defense sets allowed for. That level of Defense is no longer possible, therefore toggle dropping is no longer needed. It's not a nerf, it's a step towards fixing something that is broken.

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Why not use surpression here:

Brawl: 50% chance surpressing 1 toggle for 10s
Assassin Strike: 100% chance 1 toggle for 15s, 75% chance 1 toggle for 15s, 50% chance 1 toggle for 15s

Just some example numbers, they would have to be tweaked of course.

Basically, the toggles are surpressed, and don't give their benefit, but are not toggled off. Once the surpression timer, which is based on the power used to detoggle runs out, the toggle starts working again.

Addtionally, for PvP you could introduce +Surpression Enhancements, they would not increase the chance of a power detoggling, but the time the toggles are supressed. This would offer new possibilites for PvP slotting.



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This would actually make it pointless to ever turn your toggles on. They'd be perma-suppressed anyway. Those AT's with Defensive power sets are balanced around their toggles. The ability to easily remove those toggles is imbalancing in the extreme.

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We're tweaking with toggle dropping...mostly decreasing its overall effect.


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"Decreasing its overall effect" does not sound to me like "will happen much less often." It sounds like toggle dropping might get mechanically changed somewhat, perhaps to adding a way to debuff the strength of toggles or temporarily suppressing them, instead of dropping them altogether, which would probably be a lot more fair and fun in PvP overall.

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That's what I'm afraid of actually.

Now that the Defense sets have been lowered, twice, toggle dropping outside of status effects isn't even needed, nor should it be there. After all, PvP isn't supposed to be balanced for solo play, but group play.

I have no problem with controls being able to stack to achieve enough power to drop my anti-control toggle. I have no problem with stuns and holds dropping all my toggles when they land.

Blasters, however, shouldn't be able to punch me and remove my toggles at all!! Being a resist set makes this even more painful as I was never that difficult to hit to begin with.

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lol it's not nuclear science. Brutes are so popular simply because they're the strongest AT in the game. as in overpowered. just like every other 'popular' AT in the game. once they get balanced, it'll stop. City of Blasters was stopped, City of Scrappers was the next wave, then it got stopped. City of Tankers happened. Got stopped. Hard. Now we're currently in the City of Brutes stage. Guess what's comin'?

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You're right about one thing, but it's not that Brutes are overpowered. Brutes are popular and it is simple as to why. Because they're the closest either CoX game has to true comic book characters. The distinction made for CoH between Tankers and Scrappers is so artificial it's not funny. Brutes actually allow people to make reasonable facsimilies of their favorite comic melee characters. All other AT's fall short of allowing such a close connection to the characters people grew up reading about and falling in love with.

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In beta, I was wandering around the docks looking at the Coralax - while hidden - when a Penumbra Adjutant shot me out of Hide and the very purple Coralax took me out.

So I go to the hospital, kvetch briefly about this in global chat, exit the hospital, and there's a Penumbra Adjutant shooting me as soon as I'm out the door.

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And today's lesson boys and girls, don't kvetch in public channels, someone might take offense and do something about it!

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The thing about that is if you attack and then hide, they still know you are there.

You have to run out of agro range, so they loose you. Then you can even follow them back and they won't agro.

Just run out of range. Be able to hide in plain sight is what placate is for.

Its like the first predator movie, they saw you AS their friend.. they know you are there even if they can't see you. You must run away so they can't see you. Even if you get hit you can always circle back and get em.

over here... over here...
turn around... turn around...



...anytime.

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Ahh, ok, that makes sense now. If you have to move away and come back regardless, it's not that big of a deal. And, having to use two skills, instead of one, in order to hide in plain site works as well. Thanks.

Heh, oh I was just posting my stealther type. I haven't played DAoC in about 2 years though, so I couldn't say what it's like now. I stopped right as ToA was coming out.

Trust me though, taking a Ranger to 50 and refusing to bot wasn't fun.

Uhm, that would allow you to Hide, AS, Hide, then AS again if you could get your recharge quick enough. All without fear of retaliation. That's a very bad thing indeed and likely the reason it is as it is.

It would seem more logical to simply put a 5 second suppression (I cannot believe I said that!) on it so that you can't abuse the situation.

Now, all that being said, please remember, I've not played the stalker (or any other Villain) at all yet. It may be that you can't possibly lower recharge enough on AS for such an exploit. If you can't, it still begs the question, how are you disappearing from something you just stabbed?

Ooh, I forgot about the "Illusion" spells. That I felt for the shadowblades over. I also always felt sorry for the Hunters, but at least they eventually got some loving. Then I hated them!! Or at least going up against them hehe. Insta-summon pets that can't be outran really blew.

-looks around, coughs nervously, looks around again-

Bow spec'd Ranger, pre TOA. -cries- Ye foolish assassin's ne'er knew wha' a true nerfin was, I be tellin ye!

And, they at least told you when they nerfed you!! Most archer nerfs were unannounced...several were even denied for awhile.

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When a player deliberately (and consistently) makes the game unfun for other players.

Usually this consists of things like:

Harrassment
Deliberately preventing others from completing missions/gaining xp
Finding ways to kill/injure non-PvP players (training high-level mobs onto low levels, etc.)
Using exploits in the game system (things that weren't intended) to kill/injure/harrass players
Deliberately preying on players in PvP who are hopelessly outclassed (spawn camping/sniping newbies, for example)
Broadcasting insults about x player, x hero, lamers, etc.

Generally griefing is pretty obvious -- you step into an area, BLAM! get wasted before you can do anything, and then get a tell about how you are lame and so-and-so is superior because he just worked you because you are lame -- well, that's griefing. It can be a little trickier than this but it's like what Justice Stewart said about pornography -- "...I know it when I see it."

One of the goals as a designer is to create systems to make it hard to do griefing -- without being overly restrictive. It's not easy.

It is important to remember that we, as players, are a community and the game is about community play, even if you do nothing but solo. Just doing what you want at the expense of the enjoyment of other players (not characters, but actual account-holding players) is not in the spirit of the game.

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Oh please say it ain't so... I am gathering from your response that you are considering allowing Villains to communicate with Heroes (and vice versa) in local and area channels. Please note, that many of the types of griefing you mentioned can't be pulled off without negative communication.

Or were you referring to other MMOs....

Camdar

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You were probably awaiting my dissenting vote here, camdar, didn't want to keep you waiting.

The game NEEDS the banter between opponents to be anything more than a slugfest. I'll /ignore them if I need to.

Also, for dragonhunter's sake, I hilighted the part that counters his opinion. If I re-enter the PvP zone after you maul me, and you're waiting for me, and maul me again, and again... you're breaking the line between constructive gameplay and griefing. Camping "spawn sites" is the same as camping the entrance- it's effectively a spawn into the PvP realm

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Camping an entrance is not spawn-camping. However, given the differences in computers and internet connections, I sincerely hope the entrances are developed well enough that no one can kill you before you can react. An example being the guard drones used at the mono-rails and hazard zone entrances already. Put in the fence and the drones (ostensibly to keep the villains from reaching the non-PvP heroic lands), and let that be that.