Weathering the Storm 2.0: An I5 Invuln/SS Guide.

Iron_Vixen · 10-26-2005 08:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The worst was when I saw a traitor to Tankerdom claiming that ED was no big deal cause she was getting Stealth, Tough, Weave and Combat Jumping and slotting them all so she'd be fine. The second it's fine that you have 3 manditory pools to maintain a defense, something's wrong. Some people really need to be executed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yuck. Who said that? Are they insane? Needing 3 pools on top of a primary to do the same job is ok to this person? She sniff paint fumes a lot or something?

Galactiman · 10-27-2005 11:14 AM

I did a respec on test and then jumped into a level 50 Rikti spawn in the Crash Site. Then I took my tank as is into the same spawn on live. The fight went pretty much exactly the same in both tests. Took out the Mentalists first, then the Lts. Everything else was dead in the interim as a result of some Footstomps and Energy Torrents. Hit half HP after only a few seconds in both fights at which point I popped Dull Pain. Had to eat about 6 or 7 of the medium sized greens in both fights. Popped Conserve Power at about the same time in both fights. Both fights took about the same amount of time. I don't really see a huge difference under ED. Of course, that comes at the price of dropping two of my nice-to-have powers to pick up Boxing and Tough. Sucks, but at least I can still build a viable Invuln Tank. My fire Tank, on the other hand, is in for a world of hurt.

The biggest problem I have is that I can no longer oneshot an even level Sapper with KoB+Rage. It leaves him with just a sliver of health. Most times it isn't a problem since even a Jab while he's down will take him out, but if you are unlucky and miss with that follow-up blow, there's a good chance he's gonna get some sapping in before you down him.

All-in-all, it sucks but it's livable for Invuln tanks. Invuln tanks can still herd certain mobs without a problem, and are probably the only ones left that can. So we'll probably end up getting more nerfs before it's all over and done with.

DaemonDivinity · 10-30-2005 12:18 AM

And the aggro cap too. I think I've had it.

Galactiman · 10-31-2005 07:58 AM

Right, didn't find out about that aggro cap until after I made that post. So, herding (at least by one tank) is officially dead. Maybe now they will leave us the Hell alone.

Saber_Spectre · 11-03-2005 06:07 AM

well did some hacking / number crunching...

my numbers work out to roughly this

66% max s/l dmg res with maxed or nearly maxed slots
28% mx other dmg res with maxed or nearly maxed slots

def... 8% from 4 slotted tough hide
plus CJ and stealth (for 6% more)

hate to say this but... where is my tank?
i'm as good as a scrapper now...

for curiousity sake anyone have numbers on how an inv scrapper vs inv tank compare?

i mean when i have to worry about myself it makes it alot harder to keep aggro control... course fact we can only keep what... 14 mobs aggroed on ourselves kinda borks us in large group spillover combat..

Saber Spectre Inv / EM Tanker on Guardian
Wraith Scimitar EM/ EA Brute on Guardian
Attack of the s00p3rphr34k ID 49744

CFIndustries · 11-03-2005 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hate to say this but... where is my tank?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
i mean when i have to worry about myself it makes it alot harder to keep aggro control... course fact we can only keep what... 14 mobs aggroed on ourselves kinda borks us in large group spillover combat..

[/ QUOTE ]

Couple of nights ago I deleted the only tank I ever tried, CFI-CONVICTION. Had a great concept that aligned perfectly with Iron Vixen's ideals. I didn't want to powerlevel, didn't want to herd whole maps, didn't even want to do much damage...I just wanted to be the tanker that keeps the team alive under the worst of the worst conditions. I wanted to be a good tanker, the kind I myself had not been able to easily find when I first started CFI-CONVICTION.

But before I could hit 20, Invul/SS gets hit by I5 and now I6/"ED". While it may not be "doooooom!" for tankers, it is "doooooooom" for why *I* wanted to play tankers and the *way* I wanted to play. I like playing specialists, not the "generalists" the latest rounds of nerfs seem to force us to.

So while I've watched this thread for a while, I'm done. I've deleted most of my heroes, including my two 50s (also gutted by ED...Pure Empaths and Claws/DA) and gone over to CoV. Might be the same "ED" system, but at least I don't have "it used to be like X" memories, so it doesn't feel "nerfed" like all my heroes do.

It's not the last we've seen of each other Iron Vixen...I look forward to your continued involvement with Masterminds. ;-)

My thoughts, and respect, to those tankers who decide to stick with it. =)

Galactiman · 11-03-2005 10:23 PM

Here's what I respec'd into tonight:

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.6.7.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Galactiman
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(1)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(3)EndRdx(15)
01) --> Jab==> Acc(1)EndRdx(43)Dmg(43)Dmg(43)Dmg(46)
02) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(2)Rechg(21)Rechg(21)Heal(34)Heal(37)Heal(37)
04) --> Resist Physical Damage==> DmgRes(4)DmgRes(5)DmgRes(5)
06) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(6)EndRdx(7)Rechg(7)Dmg(13)Dmg(17)Dmg(34)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8)DmgRes(9)DmgRes(9)EndRdx(15)
10) --> Haymaker==> Acc(10)EndRdx(11)Rechg(11)Dmg(13)Dmg(17)Dmg(34)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)Jump(42)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(18)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(19)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)Heal(29)Heal(31)
22) --> Stamina==> EndRec(22)EndRec(23)EndRec(23)
24) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(24)EndRdx(25)Rechg(25)Dmg(27)Dmg(27)Dmg(33)
26) --> Taunt==> Taunt(26)Taunt(40)
28) --> Rage==> Rechg(28)Rechg(29)TH_Buf(37)
30) --> Resist Elements==> DmgRes(30)DmgRes(31)DmgRes(31)
32) --> Resist Energies==> DmgRes(32)DmgRes(33)DmgRes(33)
35) --> Unstoppable==> DmgRes(35)Rechg(36)Rechg(36)Rechg(36)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> Acc(38)EndRdx(39)Rechg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(40)Dmg(40)
41) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(41)Rechg(42)Rechg(42)
44) --> Laser Beam Eyes==> Acc(44)EndRdx(45)EndRdx(45)Dmg(45)Dmg(46)Dmg(46)
47) --> Energy Torrent==> Acc(47)EndRdx(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(50)
49) --> Fly==> Fly(49)Fly(50)Fly(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> EndRdx(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

All level 52 Single Origin enhancements.

Resists
Unstoppable off
S/L¹: 66.7%
EET²: 27.5%

Unstoppable on, toggles off
S/L¹: 97.2%
EET²: 97.2%

Unstoppable and toggles on
S/L¹: 152.1%
EET²: 112.9%

I went against getting Tough to cap S/L because I don't want to give up two of my powers, I love them all. I got rid of hover, because I hardly use it anymore. In it's place, I picked up Unstoppable, which is a completely useless PvE power to me, but is very nice in PvP. I don't expect to have much trouble in PvE with this build as I was still able to run Invincible missions solo before I respec'd. There are just certain mobs who were bad before that will be worse now.

Note: This is a concept heavy toon, that's why I have two travel powers. But he still kicks [censored]! Also, I built this in the planner after I did my respec, so some of the slotting is probably not in the same order as my live build. But, the powers are in the right order, and the number of slots are correct.

¹ Smashing and Lethal.
² Elements, Energy, and Toxic.

greenlifechild · 11-03-2005 10:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hate to say this but... where is my tank?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
i mean when i have to worry about myself it makes it alot harder to keep aggro control... course fact we can only keep what... 14 mobs aggroed on ourselves kinda borks us in large group spillover combat..

[/ QUOTE ]

Couple of nights ago I deleted the only tank I ever tried, CFI-CONVICTION. Had a great concept that aligned perfectly with Iron Vixen's ideals. I didn't want to powerlevel, didn't want to herd whole maps, didn't even want to do much damage...I just wanted to be the tanker that keeps the team alive under the worst of the worst conditions. I wanted to be a good tanker, the kind I myself had not been able to easily find when I first started CFI-CONVICTION.

But before I could hit 20, Invul/SS gets hit by I5 and now I6/"ED". While it may not be "doooooom!" for tankers, it is "doooooooom" for why *I* wanted to play tankers and the *way* I wanted to play. I like playing specialists, not the "generalists" the latest rounds of nerfs seem to force us to.

So while I've watched this thread for a while, I'm done. I've deleted most of my heroes, including my two 50s (also gutted by ED...Pure Empaths and Claws/DA) and gone over to CoV. Might be the same "ED" system, but at least I don't have "it used to be like X" memories, so it doesn't feel "nerfed" like all my heroes do.

It's not the last we've seen of each other Iron Vixen...I look forward to your continued involvement with Masterminds. ;-)

My thoughts, and respect, to those tankers who decide to stick with it. =)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to be insensitive to your mood (you are obviously upset about ED), but I was wondering; since you've deleted your only level 50s, can you still make Kheldians? I've seen this question asked several times before, but I've never seen an answer.

Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.) - Whitman

Consistency is the defense of a small mind. - Beldin

lplimac · 11-04-2005 11:53 AM

With I6/ED you have decisions to make with defenses. For me I decided to go for max resistance, and that meant biting the bullet and getting the Fighting Pool. I dropped Perma Haste which isn't possible any more as well as Focused Accuracy which hogged too much END to be viable any more.
With this build I get close to the cap with Lethal/Smashing (about 89.7%), and and around 26.1% Cold/Fire/Toxic & 27.3% Energy/Negative. This works pretty well for PvP and PvE. I rather have the ability to reduce damage to the most common attack (why Resist Energies is taken later) and felt I could live with taking damage from energy attacks with Dull Pain and Health slotted as they are. Tough Hide only adds to bein hit so I wasn't as important to me. All SO's are listed at lvl 52, but I do have 53's in some of my attacks and End Rdx's. Also, this was a respec build so the slots may look funny. Again, I've taken this toon out in both PvE and PvP (Warburg) and pretty satisfied with the results. while not a pure tank anymore (I define a pure tank as not needing non primary pools for def) I make a good Brick (if you know where that reference comes from )
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.6.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Sonic Strike
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Temp Invulnerability::> DmgRes(1)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(3)EndRdx(46)
01) --> Jab::> Dmg(1)Dmg(5)Acc(13)EndRdx(34)DisDur(40)Dmg(45)
02) --> Punch::> Dmg(2)Dmg(5)Dmg(13)Acc(15)EndRdx(34)
04) --> Resist Physical Damage::> DmgRes(4)DmgRes(7)DmgRes(7)
06) --> Combat Jumping::> DefBuf(6)DefBuf(50)
08) --> Unyielding::> DmgRes(8)DmgRes(9)DmgRes(9)EndRdx(43)
10) --> Haymaker::> Dmg(10)Dmg(11)Dmg(11)Acc(15)EndRdx(34)Rechg(45)
12) --> Kick::> Dmg(12)Dmg(36)Dmg(36)Acc(37)EndRdx(40)Rechg(48)
14) --> Super Jump::> Jump(14)Jump(17)Jump(17)
16) --> Hurdle::> Jump(16)
18) --> Invincibility::> DefBuf(18)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(19)TH_Buf(31)TH_Buf(33)EndRdx(37)
20) --> Tough::> DmgRes(20)DmgRes(21)DmgRes(21)EndRdx(43)
22) --> Knockout Blow::> Dmg(22)Dmg(23)Dmg(23)Acc(25)EndRdx(33)Rechg(46)
24) --> Health::> Heal(24)Heal(25)Heal(46)
26) --> Stamina::> EndRec(26)EndRec(27)EndRec(27)
28) --> Rage::> Rechg(28)Rechg(29)TH_Buf(29)TH_Buf(33)TH_Buf(37)EndRdx(50)
30) --> Dull Pain::> Heal(30)Heal(31)Heal(31)Rechg(42)Rechg(43)
32) --> Taunt::> Rechg(32)
35) --> Resist Elements::> DmgRes(35)DmgRes(36)
38) --> Foot Stomp::> Dmg(38)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Acc(39)EndRdx(40)Rechg(45)
41) --> Conserve Power::> Rechg(41)Rechg(42)Rechg(42)
44) --> Unstoppable::> DmgRes(44)
47) --> Resist Energies::> DmgRes(47)DmgRes(48)DmgRes(48)
49) --> Tough Hide::> DefBuf(49)DefBuf(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint::> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl::> Dmg(1)
01) --> Gauntlet::> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest::> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

Guardian Server:
Sonic Strike lvl 50 Science Inv/SS Tanker
Chaos control is likely to be very useful in many future applications. But chaos is sensitive, so interfering with such a system might be unadvisable.

CFIndustries · 11-07-2005 12:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mean to be insensitive to your mood (you are obviously upset about ED), but I was wondering; since you've deleted your only level 50s, can you still make Kheldians? I've seen this question asked several times before, but I've never seen an answer.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't consider it insensitive at all.

I've been told that once your account is "flagged" for Khelds it stays that way. Doesn't really matter to me, I never could get into Khelds conceptually anyway. Like I said above, I love specialists, and Khelds are the most "generalist" of all ATs unless you really force it.

I started an all-human Warshade, but ED forced my hand there as well. All-Human Warshade is torturous enough pre-ED (if you don't want to do it via respecs), just masochistic now.

So in the end, my personal answer is "don't care."

But I will make a prediction for CoV: if they go with "evil" Epic ATs, I've already seen Nictus in a low-level Port Oakes story arc, so I have to wonder if Nictus will be available to villains eventually. =)

aqshy2004 · 11-07-2005 02:12 PM

Simple: When you go to the create hero screen, does the kheld option still appears or not?....was wondering...

Iron_Vixen · 11-15-2005 01:37 PM

Well my I5+ED testing has been limited. Mostly due to my having a lot of fun with new villainesses. I have done some limited testing, but only solo. Many of my friends I normally group with have been taking breaks or playing when I am not on.

I have been able to still solo 2 orange-con Death Mages with Rage and CP up. Or without CP but using Unstoppable. It's tight without Unstoppable, have to DP or swallow greens, but not totally untenable. I still feel we need at least modest improvements to the passives, and dropping the archaic and inappropriate def debuff in Uy, but I'll still play Vixen.

Iron_Vixen · 12-01-2005 01:41 PM

In case you may have missed it, Invinc has been fixed and is actually far more useful than it was against single mobs/small groups. It now is giving the appropriate +1.5% (base) per mob, but the first enemy is giving the equivalent of 4-5 mobs (I have heard from roughly 6% (1.5x4) to 7.5% (1.5x5)). And the +1.5% per mob now maxes at 10 mobs. Recently it was giving from 200%-300% too much of a buff, and although this means we lost a lot of def, it was bugged def anyway, and since the first mob counts as 4-5, Invinc has become far more useful against small amounts of foes. I for one am glad they fixed it.

Also, Dull Pain now gives a +to max health comensurate with the heal% you have slotted in it. With the 3heal/3 recharge SO set-up I have, I had 3212.7 health (this is with both +health accolades).

El_Furioso · 12-02-2005 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I make a good Brick (if you know where that reference comes from)

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, Champions. Now that was an awesome game. I wonder if I still have it in a box somewhere?

I like this build, Iplimac. I haven't respec'ed yet -- i think I've been in shock more than anything -- but will try something along these lines on Test. Although I still don't get why some folks take Hurdle along with SJ.

El Furioso - Inv/SS Tanker .:. Chlorostorm - Plant/Thorn Dominator {Virtue}

Proud member of the Repeat Offenders Network

City of Heroes Mission Review .:. MA arcs submitted and reviewed by the CoX community

Knoxie · 12-13-2005 12:11 AM

Thanks for the guide - lots of food for thought here.

Lady_Liberty · 01-29-2006 10:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I make a good Brick (if you know where that reference comes from)

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, Champions. Now that was an awesome game. I wonder if I still have it in a box somewhere?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yay Champions! I know we have our big book somewhere here too. What a fun game. You can't have too many dice to roll.

Thanks for the guide. Trying to decide what power to take at 41, and this has helped some. Still tough to decide.

Holy_Abomination · 03-13-2006 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Although I still don't get why some folks take Hurdle along with SJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hurdle adds more height to SJ. And you can use it in to get around more quickly in ceilinged missions if you don't mind hopping.

Iron_Vixen · 03-13-2006 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Although I still don't get why some folks take Hurdle along with SJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hurdle adds more height to SJ. And you can use it in to get around more quickly in ceilinged missions if you don't mind hopping.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hurdle also stacks nicely with CJ for improved hopping about while in a mission and you bang your head on the ceiling less than with SJ this way too.

I take Swift more often simply for faster 'standard' movement. It really does not hurt anything having Hurdle or Swift, both have utility.

King_Moloch · 03-22-2006 06:40 AM

((Bump))

Is this still a valid template, do you think?
I hate to see all of Vix's work go fall by the wayside.

Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!

Iron_Vixen · 04-18-2006 04:43 PM

I still use the new build I posted later in the guide. I may redo the guide again with the new build in the first section. I will have to re-do my damage numbers and then maybe try a few test builds out.

Gen_X_NA · 06-28-2006 10:19 AM

Do you have suggestions for I7?

I'm lvl 30 SS/INV

Thanks

Gatecrasher · 07-03-2006 07:57 AM

Gen_X, I don't think much changed for an Inv/SS in I7 (heck, did anything really change?). IV's still on the money.

Later on,
Gatecrasher

@Generator
Mostly Pinnacle, with scattered alts on Liberty, Freedom, and Justice.

I had a great time playing with you!

Iron_Vixen · 07-15-2006 09:12 AM

I wouldnt really change anything Gen_X. I did do a respec build, but mostly to get Stamina earlier for exemping. I need to re-do this guide, especially with ED damage numbers, but I just never get the time lately.

Sovereign42 · 10-23-2007 06:18 PM

I have lvl 45 invul/SS tanker.

Here's what I have now, power-wise, and I don't want to change much from what I've got. I don't PvP so thats not an issue.

Level 1: Temp Invulnerability (5 slots)
Level 1: Jab (5)
Level 2: Punch (5)
Level 4: Resist Physical Damage (5)
Level 6: Air Superiority (1)
Level 8: Unyielding (5)
Level 10: Haymaker (5)
Level 12: Swift (1)
Level 14: Fly (3)
Level 16: Health (3)
Level 18: Invincibility (5)
Level 20: Stamina (3)
Level 22: Dull Pain (3)
Level 24: Hasten (3)
Level 26: Knockout Blow (5)
Level 28: Tough Hide (5)
Level 30: Boxing (1)
Level 32: Tough (5)
Level 35: Super Speed (1)
Level 38: Foot Stomp (5)
Level 41: Conserve Power (3)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes (3)

I have IO sets in all my primary and secondary powers and I have a great deal of resistance to most damage and psi/mez/hold effects, but I'm still draining my endurance too quickly. Any suggestions to remedy that problem and suggestions for powers/slotting for 47 and 49?

Could you reply via, PM, please, I don't get to check the boards often.

Thanks!