Building A WarTroller


Aeoleon

 

Posted

WhisperWitch's Guide To Building A WarTroller

Introduction To The Blaster Tank Mage
This guide provides instructions for building a character that is part Blaster, part Tank, and part Controller. The build is called a WarTroller because the Khalidian War Shade is also part Blaster, Tank, and Controller. The WarTroller is not an attempt to create a one-for-one correspondence between War Shade powers and Controller powers.

Thanks
I'd like to thank everyone who reviewed this guide and offered suggestions and encouragement. Special thanks goes to P_Dude, Burnard_McBurns, ZinePlex, Mystic_Amethyst, Spark_1, and Breville for their suggestions on how Force Bubble and Luck inspirations can be used to increase the number of groups you can herd. I'd also like to thank Merovingian_X, PurplePplEatr, MindmasterZero, hepheastus, FunkyWaltDogg, Erratic, and Ecliptus for helping me develop the Mind/Rad version of the WarTroller. My experience with Rad is extremely limited and I couldn't have done it without them. I'd also like to thank Chilly_Dog for prompting me about the idea of using a secondary other than Force Fields to build a WarTroller.

Building Your WarTroller
To build the WarTroller we use the Mind Control primary for its excellent control powers, good damage capabilities and it's Blaster-ish style of play, the Force Field secondary to allow us to manage aggro and herd, and the Fire Epic Power Pool to increase our damge capabilities even more.

A sample build is using Mind/Force Fields/Fire followed by a sample build using Mind/Radiation Emissions/Fire is provided below. The reader can and should apply his own experiences and play styles to this build.

Both builds includes slotting and power selection all the way to level 49. The two builds have different "feels". The Mind/Force Fields version is a true WarTroller by level 4. The Mind/Rad version does not get tanking abilities until level 38. Also, the Mind/Rad version does not depend upon any of the powers of the secondary for blasting and tanking, it uses Phase Shift to tank and Mind Control and Fire powers to blast. What this means is the reader can substitute the Rad information for any secondary he prefers and still build a WarTroller.

A few notes follow the build information.

Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Controller
Primary Powers - Ranged : Mind Control
Secondary Powers - Support : Force Field

01 : Personal Force Field defbuf(01) defbuf(39)
01 : Mesmerize acc(01) dam(3) endred(7) dam(9) dam(21) rng(21)
02 : Levitate acc(02) dam(3) endred(5) recred(9) dam(11) rng(23)
04 : Dominate acc(04) dam(5) endred(7) dam(11) dam(19) rng(23)
06 : Deflection Shield endred(06) defbuf(39)
08 : Confuse acc(08) rng(46)
10 : Mass Hypnosis endred(10) endred(13)
12 : Hasten recred(12) recred(13) recred(15) recred(15) recred(17) recred(17)
14 : Super Speed runspd(14) runspd(40)
16 : Recall Friend rng(16)
18 : Total Domination acc(18) endred(19) recred(40)
20 : Swift runspd(20)
22 : Health hel(22)
24 : Stamina endrec(24) endrec(25) endrec(25) endrec(36) endrec(36) endrec(37)
26 : Terrify acc(26) dam(27) dam(27) endred(29) acc(29) dam(34)
28 : Dispersion Bubble defbuf(28) endred(37) defbuf(37) defbuf(39)
30 : Teleport rng(30) endred(31) rng(31) rng(31)
32 : Mass Confusion acc(32) endred(33) recred(33) recred(33) recred(34) recred(34)
35 : Assault endred(35) endred(36)
38 : Force Bubble endred(38) endred(43) endred(40)
41 : Fire Ball acc(41) dam(42) dam(42) dam(42) dam(43) dam(43)
44 : Fire Blast acc(44) dam(45) dam(45) dam(45) dam(46) dam(46)
47 : Fire Shield damres(47) endred(48) endred(48) damres(48)
49 : Consume acc(49) recred(50) dam(50) recred(50)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl dam(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

Notes
The first four powers of the build set the tone for the entire build. Personal Force Field will be our tool for tanking by managing aggro and herding. Mesmerize, Levitate, and Dominate will be our blasting attack chain. Mesmerize and Dominate will provide control. Mesmerize, Levitate, and Dominate are all slotted for damage.

At level 6 we take Deflection Shield. This power is not required by the WarTroller concept. However, it is common practice for Force Fielders to take this power to support their teams.

At level 8 we take Confuse, and at level 10 Mass Hypnosis. These powers strengthen and diversify the control aspect of the WarTroller.

At level 12 we take Hasten, at level 14 we take Super Speed, and at level 16 we take Recall Friend. None of these are required by the WarTroller concept. They are simply powers that are generally useful.

At level 18 we take Total Domination. For many Mind Controllers this is a key power. For the WarTroller it will not be. It will be used to hold us over until we get Terrify at level 26. After that it will be used, alternating with Mass Hypnosis, as a power to use immediately before Terrify in order to double the damage done by Terrify. The reduced role of Total Domination is reflected in its reduced slotting as compared to standard Mind Controller builds. Similarly, Terrify is given more slots than is seen in many standard builds.

At level 20 we take Swift, at level 22 we take Health, and at level 24 we take Stamina. Swift and Health must be taken in order to take Stamina. Stamina is considered to be a required power by most Mind Controllers, and so it is with the WarTroller. We six-slot this key power.

At level 26 we take Terrify. With this power, the WarTroller's capabilities show their first signs of maturing. At this point Total Domination becomes a backup power and a power used to support Terrify's damage capabilities. Using Personal Force Field along with Terrify, Mesmerize, Levitate, and Dominate, the WarTroller can begin herding and defeating groups single-handedly. Play style begins to shift from mainly control with some damage to the WarTroller looking for ways to do as much damage as possible, with control used to protect himself and his team while doing the damage.

At level 28 we take Dispersion Bubble and at 30 we take Teleport. Both are good powers, but neither is required by the WarTroller concept.

At level 32 we take Mass Confusion and the WarTroller becomes a legitimate war machine, especially when soloing missions. With only Terrify and the earlier attack powers, it was difficult for the WarTroller to single handedly beat the groups he herded. Now it is easy. Mass Confusion is cast on the herd and they are allowed to damage themselves for anywhere from 50% to 75% percent of their full health. The WarTroller then uses Terrify, Mezmerize, Levitate, and Dominate to not only defeat the herd, but to buf his XP gained in a given amount of time.

At level 35 we take Assault to further increase our damage dealing capabilities.

At level 38 we take Force Bubble. When used with 3 Luck inspirations, Force Bubble allows the WarTroller to herd larger areas.

At level 41 and 44 we take Fire Ball and Fire Blast and, when combined with the double damage dealt to held opponents and all the other damage powers taken previously, the WarTroller is decimating his opponents.

At level 47 we take Fire Shield and at level 49 we take Consume. These powers are not required by the WarTroller concept, but do add some nice features in the form of extra protection and endurance recharge.


And now for the Mind/Radiation Emmisions/Fire version. This version demonstrates how to build a WarTroller without taking the Force Fields secondary.

Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Controller
Primary Powers - Ranged : Mind Control
Secondary Powers - Support : Radiation Emission

01 : Radiant Aura endred(01) hel(5)
01 : Mesmerize acc(01) dam(3) endred(17) dam(37) dam(43) dam(27)
02 : Dominate acc(02) dam(3) endred(19) dam(39) dam(40) dam(50)
04 : Radiation Infection endred(04) defdbf(5) defdbf(34) defdbf(36) defdbf(36)
06 : Accelerate Metabolism endred(06) recred(7) recred(7) endred(9) recred(9) recred(11)
08 : Hasten recred(08) recred(11) recred(13) recred(13) recred(15)
10 : Mass Hypnosis endred(10) endred(29)
12 : Air Superiority acc(12) dam(17) dam(15) dam(40) dam(40) dam(46)
14 : Fly endred(14) fltspd(19)
16 : Swift runspd(16)
18 : Health hel(18)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21) endrec(25) endrec(25) endrec(29)
22 : Enervating Field endred(22) endred(23) endred(23)
24 : Confuse acc(24)
26 : Terrify acc(26) dam(27) dam(31) endred(34) dam(34) dam(37)
28 : Total Domination acc(28) endred(31) recred(31)
30 : Stealth endred(30)
32 : Mass Confusion acc(32) endred(33) recred(33) recred(33) recred(36) recred(37)
35 : Grant Invisibility endred(35)
38 : Phase Shift endred(38) endred(39) endred(39)
41 : EMP Pulse acc(41) endred(42) hlddur(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Fire Ball acc(44) dam(45) dam(45) dam(45) dam(46) dam(46)
47 : Fire Blast acc(47) dam(48) dam(48) dam(48) dam(50) dam(50)
49 : Consume acc(49)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl dam(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

Notes
This version of the WarTroller will be a standard controller for much of his career. While the blasting capabilities closely follow the Mind/Force Field version, tanking capabilities do not appear until level 38 with Phase Shift. In return, this version of the WarTroller has a nice variety of capabilities not seen in the Mind/Force Fields/Fire version. I played this build up to level 20 just to make sure everything worked correctly.

The Radiation Emissions powers themselves are not directly used for blasting or tanking. Blasting comes from Mind Control and Epic Fire Pool powers. Tanking comes from Phase Shift. If desired the reader could replace Radiation Emissions with any secondary whatsoever and still build a WarTroller.

A few different power selection and slotting strategies were discussed when working on this version. The final build presented here borrowed from all these strategies. The reader should feel free to modifiy them to fit his own play style.

Before getting Fly at level 14, the WarTroller can use Sprint and Accelerate Metabolism together as a poor man's Super Speed. Accelerate Metabolism also helps out as a poor man's Stamina at low levels.

Hasten is taken early, but without Stamina it's use is limited at lower levels to tougher fights such as soloing Luteniants.

Blasting With Your WarTroller
The mindset of the WarTroller is significantly different from that of the standard Mind Controller. The WarTroller seeks to defeat his enemies. Control is used only to prevent them from defeating him and his teammates. In this regard, the WarTroller is very much like the standard Blaster with the added capability of preventing his opponents from fighting back.

The WarTroller begins blasting at level 1 and never stops. All the way up to level 44 we grab ever power we can to supplement the capability and we slot all appropriate powers for damage. Mesmerize, Levitate, and Dominate are our blasting powers at low levels. Confuse also adds to our damage output in its own unique way. Terrify and Mass Confusion are added at mid levels. Fire Ball and Fire Blast complete the blasting capabilities at high levels.

Mesmerize, Dominate, Mass Hypnosis, and Total Domination allows us to apply holds before blasting in order to double our damage. For those who choose to take Telekinesis, it can also be used to double our damage.

Hasten, six slotted with recharges, allows us to double our blasting attacks and Stamina, also six-slotted, allows us to fire off blast after blast without ever having to stop.

Finally, Assault is used to raise our damage even higher.

The following table lists the powers in the Mind Control and Fire Epic Power Pool and provides information on if the power sets up another power for double damage and if the power causes double damage.

Power ___________Sets Up Double Damage__________Causes Double Damage
Mesmerize_______ Yes___________________________ Yes
Levitate__________ No ___________________________ Yes
Dominate ________ Yes __________________________ Yes
Confuse _________ No ___________________________ No
Mass Hypnosis ___ Yes __________________________ No
Telekinesis _______ Yes __________________________ No
Total Domination __ Yes __________________________ No
Terrify ___________ No ___________________________ Yes
Mass Confusion ___ No ___________________________ No
Fire Ball _________ No ___________________________ Yes
Fire Blast ________ No ___________________________ Yes
Fire Shield _______ No ___________________________ No
Consume ________ No ___________________________ Yes

Tanking With Your WarTroller
Tanking with your WarTroller means aggro management and lockdown.

Unlike a true Tank, the WarTroller cannot allow the baddies to beat on him in order to keep his team safe. Instead, the WarTroller uses his Mind Control lockdowns to prevent the baddies from making any attacks at all. In the build provided in this guide Mass Hypnosis, Total Domination, Terrify, Mass Confusion, Mesmerize, Confuse, and Dominate are the tools used to provide this lockdown. Telekinesis is another option available to the WarTroller.

Lockdown works best when applied to baddies that are all clumped together. This allows the WarTroller to make maximum use of his AoE lockdowns. The WarTroller has aggro management skills that are in effect similar to a Tank's Taunt skills. Lacking Taunt, however, the WarTroller relies on Personal Force Field to allow him to walk right up to baddies and draw their aggro. He uses this process on several groups of baddies, and then heads around a corner to cause the baddies to clump around him. Once the baddies have clumped, he drops his Personal Force Field and uses his AoE lockdowns to control the baddies and protect himself and his team. Once our Blaster Tank Mage reaches level 38, Force Bubble can be used to increase the area that can be herded.

This section provides a rough sketch of herding with Force Fields. Additional details on herding using Personal Force Field and Force Bubble can be found in WhisperWitch's Guide To Herding With Force Fields.

A word of caution: As of Issue 5, Mind Controller AoE lockdowns have been given a limit of 10 baddies maximum that they can effect. While Mind has several AoEs, allowing the Mind Controller to bypass this limit of 10, make sure that you don't herd more baddies than you can handle, especially when soloing. Start with a single group and only increase the numbers herded when you feel comfortable doing so.

Controlling With Your WarTroller
By building our WarTroller around the Mind Control set, we have what is probably the best set for control in the game. Of the 9 powers in the Mind Control set, 8 are about control, 3 provide single target control, and 5 provide AoE control. It provides knockdown, sleeps, holds, fears, and confuses. It is well equiped for handling large numbers of baddies in both a team and a solo situation and controlling everything from minions to AVs. The following table summarizes these skills.

Power ___________Single Target/AoE _____Lockdown Type
Mesmerize_______ Single Target _________ Sleep with damage
Levitate__________ Single Target _________ Knockdown with damage
Dominate ________ Single Target _________ Hold with damage
Confuse _________ Single Target _________ Confuse
Mass Hypnosis ___ AoE ________________ Sleep
Telekinesis _______ AoE ________________ Hold
Total Domination __ AoE ________________ Hold
Terrify ___________ AoE ________________ Fear with damage
Mass Confusion __ AoE _________________ Confuse

In addition to simply using the powers for the basic effects, the powers can be used in a wide variety of tactics. For more information on these tactics see WhisperWitch's Tactics for Mind Control and Force Fields.


That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio

The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage

 

Posted

Very nice. All your guides are great. Thanks!


 

Posted

Your guide came out great! Good info, easy to read, I like it. w00t, I got a mention! Thanks magicj.


 

Posted

Thanks for the compliments guys.

I also want to thank ThePickle for pointing out that AM should have all six slots filled with recreds.


That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio

The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage

 

Posted

Last I knew, you only needed 4 SOs in AM to make it perma, assuming you also had perma-Hasten (which similarly only needs 5 SOs to be perma if you have perma-AM).


Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304

 

Posted

Have you verified on Test that Terrify does double damage? I thought it was a pet like Tornado or Freezing Rain so it wasn't doubled. I would love it if you are right but I just wanted to verify that you did test it.

Thanks.


Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete

 

Posted

Very interesting stuff. I haven't played Mind Control yet. I may just have to make one and see how the WarTroller works out. Thanks for the guide


 

Posted

Starting a Mind/FF now, so when i5 hits it will really take off. From trying this out on test, the changes benefit this type of controller greatly


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Have you verified on Test that Terrify does double damage? I thought it was a pet like Tornado or Freezing Rain so it wasn't doubled. I would love it if you are right but I just wanted to verify that you did test it.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
It does indeed do double damage to held baddies.

It doesn't set up other powers for double damage.

Edit: I just got back from test to make double sure. Yes, Terrify gets the double damage bonus.


That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio

The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Have you verified on Test that Terrify does double damage? I thought it was a pet like Tornado or Freezing Rain so it wasn't doubled. I would love it if you are right but I just wanted to verify that you did test it.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are thinking of the Spectral Terror from the Illusion line, not Terrify from Mind Control.

Spectral Terror is a 'pseudo-pet'

Terrify is a wide-area cone attack.


6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Last I knew, you only needed 4 SOs in AM to make it perma, assuming you also had perma-Hasten (which similarly only needs 5 SOs to be perma if you have perma-AM).

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the heads up TopDoc. I'll check with the Controller Rad guys to see if this is true. There may be a difference between the Controller and Defender powers.

Oh, and I love your Tank Mage Super Group idea. It's totally cool. Stars for you

But the WarTroller can solo.


That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio

The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I just got back from test to make double sure. Yes, Terrify gets the double damage bonus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet! Thanks! I'm eager to level up my 18 Mind/FF now.


Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete

 

Posted

I was really upset about the I5 changes at first because I thought it would ruin my "pure" controller. I didn't want to delete him since he was my first toon so I was working on a scratroller build for my Earth/FF before I saw your post, but after reading yours it inspired me to work harder. I also wanted to point out that now on test, Dispersion Bubble provides Psionic Defense... I am testing my build later this week and will post the outcome. You truly had an excellent idea!!


(H)Dark/Rad, Rad/Psi, Spine/Regen, Ice/EM, Psi/EM, Earth/FF,
(V)EM/NIN, Bots/FF, Fire/Rad,Fire/Fire, Earth/Fire, Grav/Energy

@Angus.Black

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Last I knew, you only needed 4 SOs in AM to make it perma, assuming you also had perma-Hasten (which similarly only needs 5 SOs to be perma if you have perma-AM).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true . . . but only if you remember to click AM all the time, the moment it comes back up. Putting that sixth SO in Hasten will keep you not-always-vigilent people from having downtime on Hasten. Personally, I prefer to six-slot Hasten, and then wait on setting off AM until I can get maximum benefit for my team by hitting as many of them as I can.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Nice guide, Magicj. Thanks for feeding my altoholism, hehe.

At level 37 (Rad/Rad defender), I currently have Hasten six slotted with level 40 recharge reducing SO's and I have 4 level 40 recharge reducing SO's in AM (as well as 2 endurance recovery SO's). AM becomes ready again for use about 2 or three seconds before it wears off. Once I level and my SO's are no longer +3, AM will wear off before it is ready for use. Thus I may put another recharge SO in AM. Then again, now that I am starting to earn plenty of influence, I should be able to combine my SO's to get ++ on them. That may help.


Taxibot Grim (Virtue)
Paragon Taxi Service

 

Posted

A VERY intruiging build! I have two quick questions though.
Having never really run a Mind controller, is Mass Confusion really all it's cracked up to be?

I've heard good and bad about it, and would like your opinion.

Also, I think I'll be running the Mind/Rad variant, and if Mass C isn't all that great,
would Lingering Radiation from the rad secondary be a suitable replacement?

Thanks for your time and patience. :-)


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I was really upset about the I5 changes at first because I thought it would ruin my "pure" controller. I didn't want to delete him since he was my first toon so I was working on a scratroller build for my Earth/FF before I saw your post, but after reading yours it inspired me to work harder. I also wanted to point out that now on test, Dispersion Bubble provides Psionic Defense... I am testing my build later this week and will post the outcome. You truly had an excellent idea!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks AB. I look forward to hearing how things go.


That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio

The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
A VERY intruiging build! I have two quick questions though.
Having never really run a Mind controller, is Mass Confusion really all it's cracked up to be?

I've heard good and bad about it, and would like your opinion.

Also, I think I'll be running the Mind/Rad variant, and if Mass C isn't all that great,
would Lingering Radiation from the rad secondary be a suitable replacement?

Thanks for your time and patience. :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

Some folks love Mass Confusion, and others don't. I absolutely do. I see it as a control nuke. It does a lot of damage to a lot of baddies in a short amount of time.

But it also reduces the amount of XP you get per baddie based on the amount of damage the baddies do to each other. But the good news is the XP drops at a slower rate than the damage percentage. As an example, if you do 50% of the damage and a confused baddie does the other 50%, you get 75% of the XP. And it takes less time to defeat the baddies.

With Mass Confusion the speed up is significant and you actually end up making more XP in a given amount of time if you're fighting back to back to back groups, as in street hunting or in missions. And with the herding technique available to the WarTroller you can defeat even more baddies in a given amount of time using Mass Confusion. So really what you're doing is buffing the XP you get in a given amount of time. And there's no other power in the game that can do that for you.

Here's how I use Mass Confusion when I'm soloing:

1) Herd up a few groups.
2) Drop Mass Confusion on the herd.
3) Lockdown any individuals Mass Confusion may have missed.
4) Wait for them to damage each other by about 50% on average.
5) Terrify the herd.
6) Defeat the herd using various powers.

In I5, you'll want to apply Mass Hypnosis or Total Domination before Terrify to get a double damage bonus. Using this method, you defeat several groups quickly with Mass Confusion as the main damage dealing attack. The herding part is nice because you'll defeat a herd of multiple groups in just a little over the time it takes to defeat one group without herding.

As to the question of whether or not Lingering Radiation can replace Mass Confusion, I think the answer is no.

In a solo situation, you'll really miss the damage Mass Confusion gives. No matter how much you debuf the herd, it will be signifigantly harder to defeat them without Mass Confusion. So I don't think LR can replace Mass Confusion in a solo situation.

In a group situation, you can debuf the baddies with LR and have your teammates help you defeat them. In this case, your teammates' attacks make up for the damage lost by not using Mass Confusion. However, it would still be much safer to lock the baddies down using Mind Control powers than to slow them down using LR. And of course, many Mind Control powers set you up for double damage, whereas LR does not.


That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio

The Infernal Challenge
Building a WarTroller
Troller Damage

 

Posted

Thank you very much for your informative reply!

I understand the usefulness of Mass C now (With speed of defeating mobs and moving on to the next
making up for any exp loss from mobs duking it out against themselves).

As I solo alot, this seems a viable way to go for me.

I'm keen to try this. I'm actually kinda looking forward to I5 now


 

Posted

OMG...magicj you embody the exact style of play I prefer. Yuor guides are top notch for trollers who prefer to do some damage themselves and not just hold for everyone else ALL the time. When I solo, I want to know I can hold my own.
Could you take a sec and suggest 2 builds for me. There are 2 controller toons I want to respec. But, I have not found anything on the boards that seems right for me. Then I saw ur posts
The two controller builds to lvl50 I would like to see are:
My Illusion/Radiation
and
My Mind/Weather
I know these may not be ur first choice for building one, but I would luv to see your closest "Wartroller" build for these toons.

Thanks so much

P.S. For all the haters out there, please don't waste space by telling me if I want to do damage, build a blaster or scrap. I know exactly what I want


 

Posted

I was very excited about this idea, and since I had been looking for an excuse to try a mind controller (had a costume idea, but was wary of controller AT).

I went Mind/FF, and was doing very well on live. I could solo impossible missions, and only had problems with the bosses at the end. I transfered these characters to live (also mad a mind/kinteic). When I hit lvl 7-8, I went to Perez Park, on live I could take a large group of whites and/or blues.

Now I transfered the characters to test, and loved the double damage, but I can no longer take on a large group (even of all blues) My mass hypnosis wears off by the time I've killed 1 mob, and then they are all on me while I wait 10+ seconds for it to recharge. I can usually forcefield, then drop shield, mass hypno, defeat one mob, shield, repeat - but this is not really "Scraptrollery".

Am I doing something wrong? whats the point of herding with FF, when you can only kill one at a time anyway?


 

Posted

From reading her post some it appears that mass hypno is only one the the ae's used ( in conjun. with terrify and total domination). So you have 3 ae holds to cycle thru some which set up for or do double damage.

Green
Edit: When you get to that lvl that is or get hasten perma


 

Posted

Yea - I realized that I only had 1 aoe, but the duration of that was so short that I just couldn't image even three lasting long enough to get the job done, even in cycles (plus the end cost). Needless to say, patience in not one of my virutes, I wanted to be UBER right away.

I was playing around with some of these power, and I noticed (using herobuilder) that you could use boxing twice in the same amount of time you could use levitate once (and for the same end cost). Two hits from boxing is more damage than one levitate - other than range, is there a reason not to go this way?


 

Posted

So is the general idea that you can't make a WARTROLLER without Mind Control Primary? RRR

Cmon magicj u need to weigh in here

See my build question earlier


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Am I doing something wrong? whats the point of herding with FF, when you can only kill one at a time anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]
At level 8 it's going to be extremely difficult to kill off entire herds all by yourself. It's a at level 26, with Terrify supported by Mass Hypnosis, Total Domination, and the rest of your attack powers that you can start to defeat herds solo. And even at level 26 I'd recommend starting small to get a feel for just how much you're capable of. At level 32 with Mass Confusion you'll have no trouble and at level 41 with Fire Ball it just gets crazy how much damage all your powers used together can do.

As you're finding out, herding baddies and defeating them are two different things. To herd them you only need Personal Force Field. To defeat them you need fire power and lockdowns. Both will come as you move up in levels. And yes, I've tested it on I5 and it will work once you get these powers.

What you can do at level 8 is first get some practice herding (as I see you've already done ) and herd for a team and have them help you defeat the herd. And again, I'd recommend starting out small to see how well this works with the team you're on. At level 8, this will be delicate, as Mass Hypnosis is broken by attacks. At level 18 is becomes a bit more viable when you get Total Domination and can use it with Mass Hypnosis and the help of your team.

I know that's not the "uber" answer you were hoping for. But I think you'll find that herding is actually a nice ability to have even at low levels. If nothing else, it will allow you to move a group that's in a crowded room to an area where you and your teammates can defeat them without worrying about aggroing other groups. And I can honestly say that learning how to move baddies around like that is a skill that's helped me in all my toons, even when I'm not herding, and even when the toon I'm playing doesn't have PFF.

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I was playing around with some of these power, and I noticed (using herobuilder) that you could use boxing twice in the same amount of time you could use levitate once (and for the same end cost). Two hits from boxing is more damage than one levitate - other than range, is there a reason not to go this way?

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The advantages Levitate has over any of the power pool attacks is range, as you mentioned, the fact that you don't need to use one of your four power pools to get it, and that it can take down fliers, even from range. But if you feel the advantages of a power pool attack give you more of what you're looking for, there's nothing at all wrong with taking it.


That combo is just seriously sick, and is a perversion of gameplay mechanics. - Excelsio

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