Issue 5 Features Preview: Forest of Dread
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2005-06-29 09:18 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[ QUOTE ]
It'd be like someone finding it offensive if they created a giant monster named Cthulu.
[/ QUOTE ]
OMG. I worship Cthulhu. You called him a monster. I have been disrespectz0red. You insult my relidgin.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It'd be like someone finding it offensive if they created a giant monster named Cthulu.
[/ QUOTE ]
OMG. I worship Cthulhu. You called him a monster. I have been disrespectz0red. You insult my relidgin.
[/ QUOTE ]
La! La! Cthulu Fhatagn! Er, uh...
Eat me! 
The Satanists of the Church of Satan or Temple of Set have no relation to the common media portrayl.
The Satanists of the Church of Satan only did things like the Black Mass for publicity or to rile up fundie Christians. In reality most of the people who belong to the Satanic religion are in fact Atheists who use Satan as an image of themselves.
The thing about Satanic ritual abuse was that it didn't exist. It was overactive parents planting crap in their children's minds.
99.999% of American children are abused by their parents and those parents are in fact predominatly Christian. Odds are that a fundamentlist household has more child abusers then the most hedonestic.
As for the 50s being hedonistic odd how the one woman one man nuclear family image held by conservatives as the longest standing marriage type origanted back then.
The 1950s were in no way hedonistic. In fact they were the most conservative time in America. The most executitions for criminals, rapes of both children and adults, and illegal abortions (not counting the fact that 99% of abortions were illeagal) were done back then. And the 1950s are what the conservatives and American public say was the happiest time in America. Only if you were white of course.
You know, as a member of the Church of Automata, I am highly offended by the way this game - indeed, fiction in general - protrays robots. I worship and work with our benevolent mechanical overlords, and I find their frequent portrayal as heartless engines of destruction (Zenith Mechs, Zeus Titans, Siege, Clockwork, the Mega Mech) more then a little disturbing. Thanks to games like this, when most people think of robots they think of homicidal killing machines barely under human subjugation. The urban myths that have arisen thanks to this stereotype makes things very hard for the acolytes of the Chuch of Automata.
I think we should show our helpful cybernetic masters in a more positive light, focusing more on heroes like Citadel and Luminary. Or have the Cronos Titan give out a handful of deathless steel wildflowers to heroes as thanks for helping out. Perhaps an entire zone dedicated to happy, singing robots that only want to help, as my religion teaches. After all, my religion is tens of minutes old and based on a wide array of holy short stories, shouldn't my feelings and those of my fellow CoA acolytes (over 2!) be taken into account? We need to break the popular bias that robots are heartless maniacal forces of pure doom.
On the other hand, I am quite pleased to see more nature spirits condemned as evil ravening bloodied demons. Soon, people will finally turn away from Crone Nature and embrace the cold hard logic of the robots. Embrace the future! Embrace the robots!
Sometimes the enemy is so swift and the path so treacherous that you can run no further.
It is then that you must turn and resolve to fight
and in all likelihood die horribly
but you never know when you are going to get lucky, so go for it!
- Captain Fwiffo
[ QUOTE ]
99.999% of American children are abused by their parents and those parents are in fact predominatly Christian.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I'm sure you pulled that number out of thin air, or were joking, you are right in the fact that the majority of child abuse and spousal abuse cases occur in Christian households.
[ QUOTE ]
The 1950s were in no way hedonistic.
[/ QUOTE ]
I won't pretend I'm from the Fifties, but I will defend that the sweep of hedonism took America during the 1950s and 1960s. The idea of the "nuclear family" spawned at this time too, sure; but it was the Fifties that have birth to the wife-swapping, feel-good generation, and also the modern revival of Pagan practice.
[ QUOTE ]
You know, as a member of the Church of Automata, I am highly offended by the way this game - indeed, fiction in general - protrays robots. I worship and work with our benevolent mechanical overlords, and I find their frequent portrayal as heartless engines of destruction (Zenith Mechs, Zeus Titans, Siege, Clockwork, the Mega Mech) more then a little disturbing. Thanks to games like this, when most people think of robots they think of homicidal killing machines barely under human subjugation. The urban myths that have arisen thanks to this stereotype makes things very hard for the acolytes of the Chuch of Automata.
I think we should show our helpful cybernetic masters in a more positive light, focusing more on heroes like Citadel and Luminary. Or have the Cronos Titan give out a handful of deathless steel wildflowers to heroes as thanks for helping out. Perhaps an entire zone dedicated to happy, singing robots that only want to help, as my religion teaches. After all, my religion is tens of minutes old and based on a wide array of holy short stories, shouldn't my feelings and those of my fellow CoA acolytes (over 2!) be taken into account? We need to break the popular bias that robots are heartless maniacal forces of pure doom.
On the other hand, I am quite pleased to see more nature spirits condemned as evil ravening bloodied demons. Soon, people will finally turn away from Crone Nature and embrace the cold hard logic of the robots. Embrace the future! Embrace the robots!
[/ QUOTE ]
Five stars! 
[ QUOTE ]
but it was the Fifties that have birth to the wife-swapping, feel-good generation, and also the modern revival of Pagan practice.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually that is more the roaring 1920s then 1950s. I always keep in mind to not view history through rose tinted glases and that people who claim certain times are better then others speak out of their [censored].
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement, but few can argue with it."
-Kenneth V. Lanning, Supervisory Special Agent at the Behavioral Science Institution and Research Unit of the FBI Academy (from Carl Sagan's, The Demon-Haunted World)
[ QUOTE ]
Actually that is more the roaring 1920s then 1950s.
[/ QUOTE ]
Paganism? No, no... The early twentieth century was still a ridiculously Christian era. In the 1950s, England lifted a ban on books concerning Pagan religions and practices, which is what prompted Gardener to introduce Wicca to the world, opening the door for a Neo-Pagan movement.
[ QUOTE ]
Paganism? No, no... The early twentieth century was still a ridiculously Christian era. In the 1950s, England lifted a ban on books concerning Pagan religions and practices, which is what prompted Gardener to introduce Wicca to the world, opening the door for a Neo-Pagan movement.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not quite. Books on those subject weren't ever banned - loads of books on pagan religion had been published, many of them coming out in the early 1900s (e.g. Hargrave Jennings and G Frazer's work). The event that prompted Gardner to create Wicca was the repeal of the Witchcraft Act. The story was that all the underground witches could now reveal themselves without fear of persecution. Total nonsense, of course, but it was a good bit of stagecraft.
Ah, see I thought that books on witchcraft were banned. Even still, the man who prompted a revival of Pagan practices, Gardener, did so in the 1950s. Unfortunately, he did it by creating his own religion out of bits and pieces of ancient religions instead of reviving the ancient religions themselves.
Actually America was quite facsinted by the occult in the early 20th century. The Ouija boards were particular common in American households.
I used to know the names several reference books that documented the American public's interest in the occult and early 20th century it was of interest. Sadly my memory has gone the way of the dodo.
Ah Gerald Gardner isn't the only European considered responisble for the rise of Wicca.
Charles Leland wrote a book in 1899
titled Aradia: Gospel of the Witches. His book is one of many sources of the modern neopagan movement.
And the Occult means Wicca along with Satanism, Old true Pagan Witchcraft and predates the 1950s.
[ QUOTE ]
And the Occult means Wicca along with Satanism, Old true Pagan Witchcraft and predates the 1950s.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Occult" means anything relating to the supernatural. And Wicca is not "old true Pagan witchcraft," and does not predate the 1950s. And Satanism is such a broad term for a religion that one could argue it's either no older than the 1960s, or no older than the early 1900s. Any ancient religion referred to as Satanism (and there are many) is only referred to as such because, like the term Pagan, it covers anything that isn't Christian.
[ QUOTE ]
Even still, the man who prompted a revival of Pagan practices, Gardener, did so in the 1950s. Unfortunately, he did it by creating his own religion out of bits and pieces of ancient religions instead of reviving the ancient religions themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
He did indeed. Thing is, it's really impossible to revive the ancient religions. We know very, very little of what they entailed, and despite claims of (frankly impossible) hereditary tradition, there are no lineages that have survived. Only echoes of customs and shards of folklore make it down through the years.
That and it's impossible to become completely immaterial anymore. And I don't think many governments would allow the practice of any kind of ritual sacrifice as legal, despite it being a religious activity.
But yes, Gardener pretty much "stewed" a new religion from what he could find on ancient religions, "spiced" it up with some Hindu, Buddhism and Crowley, and presented it as a religion. And yet, people (Wiccans) still claim it's ancient or "the oldest" religion.
[ QUOTE ]
And yet, people (Wiccans) still claim it's ancient or "the oldest" religion.
[/ QUOTE ]
To give them their due, plenty of them are changing their minds on that score. The most common comment from the Wiccan side is 'no, it's not ancient, but it works for us'.
Unfortunately, with the exposure of Wicca as a recent construct, 'hereditary witchcraft' has been invented to replace it. The standard line from that side is 'we have proof that we're ancient, honest we do, but you're not allowed to see it'.
[ QUOTE ]
I'll look forward to the evil Jesus, Mohamed and Buddha monsters in a future publish.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would be awesome! I'm all for equal opportunity religious offensiveness.
Well books were banned and destroyed mentioning witchcraft unless the book was used against witches or about their history. A lot of the stuff about witches comes from Middle Age misconceptions and outright lies told by the Christian churches. Like it or not witches do have a historial reason to be concerned as well as frightented about fundie Christians.
The statements made by several Christian spirtual leaders concerning the pagan rituals done by witches at Fort Hood show this concern witches have about being persecuted in modern times is well founded.
Nearly every religion is based on earlier religions that have had doctrines refined or corupted and bit made up out of whole cloth. Christianity is no exception to this.
Ritual sacrifiace of animals is still legal. Santeria for instance is protected by the Constitution.
Human sacrifiace isn't. A couple years back in India a group of Thugee cultists were arrested after sacrificing a young boy.
And by Occult predating I mean the actual word itself. Satanism is largely a Christian construct out of the Middle Ages. The Satanic religion has no relation to it.
Wicca is very old but extinct. Most of the religious texts, traditions were destroyed by Christians. Like several other religions.
The Roman Empire was a hundred times more tolerant of religions. Christians were considred fruitcakes who were only punished because they were intolerant of other religions.
The Jews the Romans actualy tried to accomdate their religious beliefs. No parades of Roman troops through Jeruselam or executations on Jewish holy days. And the Jews were allowed to punish their people for breaking Jewish holy laws.
[ QUOTE ]
Well books were banned and destroyed mentioning witchcraft unless the book was used against witches or about their history.
[/ QUOTE ]
No they weren't. Texts like the Black Pullet were available, if sometimes rare. You could get the Sword of Moses by mail order.
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of the stuff about witches comes from Middle Age misconceptions
[/ QUOTE ]
It's hard to have a 'misconception' about something that didn't really exist. One may as well say that unicorns are misunderstood. There's no evidence that anyone calling themself a witch now has any connection to historical witchcraft. There's only the aspiration to identify with an archetype.
[ QUOTE ]
Like it or not witches do have a historial reason to be concerned as well as frightented about fundie Christians.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, anyone calling themself a witch is laying themself open for abuse.
[ QUOTE ]
Wicca is very old but extinct.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. The religions that Wicca uses for its principals may be extinct, but Wicca itself is one of the newest religions and thriving in today's society.
I was refering to the old religion not the neopagan revival.
And a lot of the books claimed to be magical texts are in fact frauds or works of fiction. The Necronomican exists and is quite a delightfull work of fiction.
And a great number of old texts on magic were destroyed. In most cases we just have the names or books that claim to be unaltered copies.
[ QUOTE ]
Nearly every religion is based on earlier religions that have had doctrines refined or corupted and bit made up out of whole cloth. Christianity is no exception to this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Idioteraser:
I rebuke you and your anti-Christian hate speech, over several posts in
pages 23 to 25 of this thread.
It is just as wrong, in this City of Heroes forum, as if I was busily posting to this
thread bashing your faith.
It's my faith that Christianity is 100% true, and other faiths are 100% false.
But I haven't written several nasty posts declaring that.
Whatever faith any human follows, it is quite clear that your heart is filled with
hatred. Your writing isn't aimed at convincing people they are misguided; your
writing is hate speech trying to get others to agree with your hate.
I don't want you censored, but now that you've spilled your hatred onto this thread,
I would like to see you apologize for it, by posting on this thread.
I know you can make insightful posts, minus the hate. Please do so.
Please get back to things this thread does cover, such as the interesting
back and forth regarding origins of myths, pagan faiths, etc. and how that
is being implemented in issue 5.
Now, *that* makes for interesting reading, no matter your faith.
lots of pages of the sam debate
plz make another treath to talk as much as you want of who is wrong and allow this treath to talk again of the good incoming things of issue 5
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nearly every religion is based on earlier religions that have had doctrines refined or corupted and bit made up out of whole cloth. Christianity is no exception to this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Idioteraser:
I rebuke you and your anti-Christian hate speech, over several posts in
pages 23 to 25 of this thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
The heck? I hate Idioteraser as much as the next guy, but he's right on this count, at least as far as being based on earlier religions goes. Or are you claiming that Christianity didn't take anything (the Old Testament) from Judaism?
[ QUOTE ]
I'll look forward to the evil Jesus, Mohamed and Buddha monsters in a future publish.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, come off it. The Tuatha de Danaan were myths *first* and got turned into religious figures by neopagans. Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha were religious figures *first*.
Cryptic are basing their monsters on the original myths, not on your adopted myth-derived pantheon.