Issue 5 Features Preview: Forest of Dread
By
Accualt,
Posted on: 2005-06-29 09:18 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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hmm... well... I guess that perhaps some of us of Irish decent are tired of seeing what our ancestors held precious presented in a manner that is degrading to our heritage. If you don't find it degrading to have the mythology of our people completely trashed then I guess you don't know much about it and apparently don't care. What's the big deal? It's a form of predjudice, THAT's the big deal.
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Wait, so it's okay for fantasy and superhero RPGs and comic books to take apart every single mythology in the world and repackage it so people can hit things until the XP falls out, but when it's something applied to your mythology, it becomes uncool? If this were quantifiably worse than anything that's ever been done to any culture's ancient world mythos, I'd agree. However... we don't even know enough about what they're doing with the Tuatha de Danann to have an informed response.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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The Tuatha deDannan were the Faerie Folk of Ireland, not big shaggy monsters.
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No they weren't. The Tuatha de Danaan were the People of Danu in Irish legend, not the 'faerie folk' - that's a contemporary prettification, and about as genuinely Irish as a bowl of Lucky Charms.
Furthermore, it's by no means certain that they WERE the Gods of Ireland. They are portrayed as kings and queens, not as deities. Some think this is a 'Christian reduction' of the original, but there's no solid evidence either way.
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It gets a bit tiresome seeing the religious beliefs of my ancestors ground up and spit out in a totally outrageous form.
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Hey, I'd welcome the chance to get a chip on my shoulder about MY ancestors. Nothing makes a pagan happier than a bit of genuine repression to whine about! 
But in fairness, they weren't the religious beliefs of anyone's ancestors at all. They were much more like Arthurian legends than Gods and Goddesses. If Cryptic want to interpret mythical figures as shaggy monsters, then well done Cryptic. I trust the Statesman (and the Manticore) to know their mythology inside out. Maybe the Tuatha de Danaan created those heroic legends as a way to mask their true nature? Who knows...
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gah.. urg... please notice that I said FAERIE FOLK and NOT FAIRY FOLK. Faerie, or Fey, were not the little lucky charms degradations that we see today. They were much more like the High Elves of Tolkien. And amongst my ancestors they WERE regarded as dieties. Perhaps other families had other beliefs.
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hmm... well... I guess that perhaps some of us of Irish decent are tired of seeing what our ancestors held precious presented in a manner that is degrading to our heritage.
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Unfortunately, you don't really have very much of an idea what your ancestors held precious, because there's no contemporary record. For example, the Book of Invasions dates from the 11th Century, and to quote Wikipedia 'might be described without exaggeration as a mélange of mythology, legend, history, folklore, Christian historiography, political propaganda and barefaced lies.'
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On this note, does anyone else experience a grind around around 18, trying to get to 20. Since we don't have SOs we can't exactly go hunt 3 level higher baddens in Talos and IP. I was really hoping to see a small 15 to 25 zone in I5. Something with less spotty level 19 bad guy spawns a some missions to get us into our 20s.
Once you hit 20, between original missions and Striga there is plenty to do for a while.
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I went 17-20 just doing the Synapse TF yesterday with an alt. 18-20 is a problem?
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And amongst my ancestors they WERE regarded as dieties.
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Um, how would you know? Have you spoken to your ancestors lately?
With all respect to your personal beliefs, there simply is no record of what people believed back then, and it's mere conjecture that the Tuatha de Danaan might have been gods re-rendered as heroes. Check out any half-decent history book on the subject. 'The Pagan Religions of the Early British Isles' is excellent.
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Unfortunately, you don't really have very much of an idea what your ancestors held precious, because there's no contemporary record.
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I don't? There's not? Gee, maybe somebody should tell my granparents that the things that were handed down to them and then to me are completely invalid. Or are you one of those people who only sees the written word as valid?
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on another topic but still in this general topic of I5... saw this on another board and I couldn't agree more.
I'm a bit miffed from a cultural perspective. The Tuatha deDannan were the Faerie Folk of Ireland, not big shaggy monsters. It gets a bit tiresome seeing the religious beliefs of my ancestors ground up and spit out in a totally outrageous form. No one depicts the Roman Gods or Norse Gods or even Egyptian Gods as shaggy monsters, but hey, who cares about the Irish!? We can do whatever we want to their Gods, right?
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Someone never played Yu-Gi-Oh, I see. :P
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Um, how would you know? Have you spoken to your ancestors lately?
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actually, I would say yes, I have. But I'm sure that holds no water in this debate.
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With all respect to your personal beliefs, there simply is no record of what people believed back then
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no written record perhaps, but a very fine oral tradition. If that doesn't count I suggest you try telling that to the Native Americans.
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on another topic but still in this general topic of I5... saw this on another board and I couldn't agree more.
I'm a bit miffed from a cultural perspective. The Tuatha deDannan were the Faerie Folk of Ireland, not big shaggy monsters. It gets a bit tiresome seeing the religious beliefs of my ancestors ground up and spit out in a totally outrageous form. No one depicts the Roman Gods or Norse Gods or even Egyptian Gods as shaggy monsters, but hey, who cares about the Irish!? We can do whatever we want to their Gods, right?
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Someone never played Yu-Gi-Oh, I see. :P
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Frostybot makes my point with 1/100th the verbiage for teh win!
Damn him!
Personally, I don't mind that old stories are adapted for modern use. They're not changing the old stories, they're writing new ones.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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I don't? There's not? Gee, maybe somebody should tell my granparents that the things that were handed down to them and then to me are completely invalid.
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Yes, they are invalid, since all the evidence is against there being any such a convenient transmission. People have been making up hereditary lineages since the neopagan movement began.
Given the choice between believing in an oral transmission from beyond the year dot that just happens to match what a bunch of 19th century anthropologists thought, and believing that people make stuff up, I'll take the making stuff up explanation.
You don't really have any right to complain about Cryptic's interpretation of Irish legend just because you happen to believe that you have some hereditary right to a different, supposedly authentic interpretation.
This is very exciting news. Mission customization....sounds cool. To the melee types...no new powersets sucks. 
While I like to play all ATs and am excited about the new powersets that are coming, I'd much rather have seen it spread evenly, instead of concentrating on the non-melee. To those that say that tankers/scrappers got some love earlier...whatver. Balance is one thing. Continued tweaks to that is expected and normal. New powersets are special. It isn't even close to the same thing.
Ah well.... <goes to plan his arrow controller> 
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How something reads is not always how it is intended, and I'm not really able to take responsibility for every single turn of phrase that somehow hits me the wrong way. I'm not trying to make anything into a declaration of all-out war, either.
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Nah, no wories. I'm not that easy to set off and I suck at holding grudges. 
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Speaking of authentic interpretations...
I'm wondering if it's just the Irish who are meant to be inviolate?
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Nah, no wories. I'm noth that easy to set off and I suck at holding grudges.
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Goddamnit. We're going to agree now, aren't we?
That never works on the intarweb.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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no written record perhaps, but a very fine oral tradition
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One of the great things about oral tradition is that it assimilates things and then claims they were always part of the tradition, such as the gypsies assimilating Euan McColl's song 'The Thirty Foot Trailer' and claiming it was traditional, or the Irish folksingers claiming that 'She Moved Through The Fair' is an old traditional song, when in fact it was written by Padraic Colum.
In this case, anthropologists writing in the 19th and 20th centuries came up with some theories about the Tuatha de Danaan, and these were assimilated. It happens all the time. Someone makes your history sound more interesting, you're bound to pick it up and run with it.
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Nah, no wories. I'm noth that easy to set off and I suck at holding grudges.
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Goddamnit. We're going to agree now, aren't we?
That never works on the intarweb.
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Since this has been nothing but one continuous hijack anyway...
When did you grow a new forum title?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Speaking of authentic interpretations...
I'm wondering if it's just the Irish who are meant to be inviolate?
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you win... that is by far more offensive... and I'm not being sarcastic about that. Okay, I'll concede that perhaps I'm being thin skined. I just never got over my outrage at the "Mystic Knights of Tyr Nan Nog" show that turned Irish myth into Power Rangers and it's ranckled me ever since.
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I just never got over my outrage at the "Mystic Knights of Tyr Nan Nog" show that turned Irish myth into Power Rangers and it's ranckled me ever since.
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Well now, THAT is fair enough. That show was... like bargain basement Xena with a dash of phoney Baileys.
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Well now, THAT is fair enough. That show was... like bargain basement Xena with a dash of phoney Baileys.
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hehe... now WE are agreeing too... what's going on around here??
Might I suggest that we at least wait and see exactly what Cryptic has done with the mythology in question? I'm as prone to wild speculation as anyone here, but a single screenshot of a single mob is not much to go on. Given Jack's credentials in matters mythological, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Also, as I've pointed out before, folklore attributes many strange powers, including shapeshifting, to various sorts of Sidhe. Who are we to decide what forms they can and cannot take? Or to guess what changes the Tuatha de Danaan may have undergone in their long exile?
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
It's also possible to go a completly Machen route with it, where the fae folk of old legend were driven into hiding and, bereft of sunlight and the other good things of the surface world, degenerated into things of unspeakable awfulness. Or, depending on the story, were always things of awfulness that mankind intentionally forgot by masking them with tales of glory.
Or they could just be taking major liberties with it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Speaking of authentic interpretations...
I'm wondering if it's just the Irish who are meant to be inviolate?
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you win... that is by far more offensive... and I'm not being sarcastic about that. Okay, I'll concede that perhaps I'm being thin skined. I just never got over my outrage at the "Mystic Knights of Tyr Nan Nog" show that turned Irish myth into Power Rangers and it's ranckled me ever since.
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I know your pain, although I find the show far more regrettable for simply being bad entertainment.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Nah, no wories. I'm noth that easy to set off and I suck at holding grudges.
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Goddamnit. We're going to agree now, aren't we?
That never works on the intarweb.
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Since this has been nothing but one continuous hijack anyway...
When did you grow a new forum title?
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At 11k posts, although I could've done it as soon as 10k.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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It's also possible to go a completly Machen route with it, where the fae folk of old legend were driven into hiding and, bereft of sunlight and the other good things of the surface world, degenerated into things of unspeakable awfulness. Or, depending on the story, were always things of awfulness that mankind intentionally forgot by masking them with tales of glory.
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This is a completely valid direction to take things. I've seen it done before to good effect.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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I don't know if its been mentioned (too many posts for me to look at) but if anyone has read Harry Potter or played WoW it mentions Red Caps little fairy imp type creatures (which are from Harry Potter) and Fir Bolgs which is in WoW. Did they steal some ideas?
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Tell me you had no clue that both of these were taken from mythology and fairy tales well before Potter or WoW even came close to existing as a figment in a dream.