Blaster Damage


50_Caliber

 

Posted

The way I understand it, the Uber power that supposively made it "City of Blaster" was the smoke grenade, which got "adjusted" nearly out of existance. I really find this unbeliveable that one power in one secondary set of one Archtype makes it so that the entire archtype is so dominate. This seems so blow out of proportion. If this was the case, maybe it should have been called "City of Smoke Grenades"


 

Posted

You're right. There were so many /dev blasters running around, with blaster damage and damn near unhittable, that it quickly became assumed among a lot of folks that all blasters were /dev, and people in groups would be suprised when the blaster didn't have the drone floating around their head.
That decimal error in SG's acc debuff would make it so that mobs would have virtually 0 chance to hit the broad side of a barn, much less a player.

The entire AT was never as dominant as the "city of blaster" folks would have you believe.


Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2

 

Posted

Yup, Smoke Grenade was that broken. A toss of it basically gave the entire team 100% defenses because the enemies simply couldn't hit you. Add on top of that Caltrops that rooted enemies and Blaster AoE skills (namely Fire Breath or Flamethrower) and you had one severely broken powerset.

But that was just /Dev. No other secondary was that good and at the time when "City of Blasters" was such a big deal, Blasters were prevalient in two ways. Below 25 before SOs and /Dev that were 40 in a week or so. Most high level toons were Blasters, but almost universally PLing /Dev Blasters. Once those things were nerfed and people actually learned how defenses worked, things quickly turned around.


 

Posted

Wasn't that all before the purple patch too?


 

Posted

Yep that was the time when scrappers sucked, when you spent a whole day in kings row looking for circle of thorns, and when no one knew how to slot.


 

Posted

Scrappers only sucked because they could only run one toggle at a time. Enemy HP was generally lower so Blasters could take out enemies much faster. There also was absolutely no post 40 game because 40 was the level cap.


 

Posted

I know cause my first charatcer was a da/da scrapper before he got deleted and then I made my blaster.


 

Posted

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City of blasters was a myth? You either have no idea what you're talking about or that was supposed to be humour.

In Pre I2 days, blasters were king. No other AT even came close. Period. That's what they are refering to by saying city of blasters.

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No...it's a misconception. As someone above me noted, it was City of /dev blasters, on the strength of *one* broken power. There were a lot of blasters, but those were the early days. On paper, (ie with no playing experience) blasters look like the most fun to play. So a lot of people roll blasters. Slotting a blaster is pretty simple to figure out, too...all the slots go to offense, so in the early going blasters really are offensive juggernauts, especially compared to the other classes that have to split slots between offense and defense. Nothing about blasters as a whole has really changed since then. The environment has, as there are more mobs with ranged attacks and mezzes are more prevalent, and mobs will scatter if they can't get into range of their attacker, but City of Blasters is a myth, one that died without any significant changes to blasters as a whole.

Now you wanna say "City of /Devices Blasters, before the smoke grenade fix" I doubt you'll get much argument. But my fire/fire (played since day one, so i'm well aware of any changes to them ) certainly wasn't what people had in mind when people said "blasters are too uber" back then.

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This is not true. My own experience and thousands of post on the boards support the "City of Blasters" days. Its nitpicking to say that blasters weren't changed while spending the rest of the your post talking about major changes made to the game that greatly impacted blasters. As someone who was "there" i will take the next step further and state that the game changes were made to deal with blasters! It was City of Blasters. They were by far the majority, they leveled fastest and weilded the greatest power (/devices bugs aside). Changing mob AI so that they scattered, greatly increasing the number of status effects, and giving more ranged attacks-were made almost exclusively to impact blasters (some range attacks , such as wolves were made to slow down the herding, but thats the exception not the rule) None of those changes affected Scrappers at all, since they resist staus effects and dont work "at range'. That, as stated previously, how City of Blasters came to this-Blasters as second rate toons who besides being the most difficult to solo endgame, aren't even the best damage dealers anymore. Some builds still reign as the AE kings at least.

Don't get me wrong-blasters are now among the most challenging toon to play and level. they jsut are the most dangerous to play, WITHOUT the offseting ability to be the most dangerous damage dealers. IF that were the stakes-they'de still find many supporters. However, my tank (42 fire/fire tank), my trollers (50 ill/rad and 50 fire/kin), and my scraps all outdamage my blasters, and that just a shame. Hell with tar patches recent resistance debuff, my 44 D3 deals about the same damage as my blaster, and does it with several Holds, acc debuff and three heal/hold spamming pets on top of the damage!

Yes, I do think blasters need some lovin!

PS though they didnt make my sig, I have a 48 fire/fire blaster, 32 Ice/Energy, and a lowbie AR/Dev, so i do have a good handle of the blaster life. I generally only play them when I am ready for a huge dose of pain and debt-and prefer to play the other Ats when i want the mop up the floors with good sized groups of reds!


 

Posted

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City of blasters was a myth? You either have no idea what you're talking about or that was supposed to be humour.

In Pre I2 days, blasters were king. No other AT even came close. Period. That's what they are refering to by saying city of blasters.

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No...it's a misconception. As someone above me noted, it was City of /dev blasters, on the strength of *one* broken power.

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There were also the fire/eng blasters, leveling in the blink of an eye through the 20s in DA and the 30s anywhere they wanted.

Nevertheless, although there were times that blasters were disproportionately popular relative to other classes at no time do I think they ever were very close to 50% of the logged in characters much less more than that. So whether you think a number like 40% qualifies as "City of Blasters" or not is a matter of opinion.


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Posted

Well, it looks like the whole "City of Blasters" was more due to the game enviroment, learning curve of other ATs, and that other AT's were still in need of some adjustments. The only adjustment to the actual blaster was correcting the smoke grenade bug. Once that all changed it balanced out more or less.

I just find the whole "OH NO! It will make everything City of Blasters again!" argument just plain silly, considering how much things have changed. Blasters are in need of some adjusting up, I think Issue #3 rather proved that, when they tried to make the enviroment tougher only to find that it was only favorable to Tankers and Scrappers.


 

Posted

There were at least three factors making "City of Blasters":

1. Smoke Grenade.
2. Enemy ranged damage was a shoddy joke in most cases- at least through level 30.
3. Blasters are still very strong through level 30- and 90% of the people in the game were below level 30 in the first few months. (I recently found an old guide to Broadsword/Invuln which STOPPED at level 20- as opposed to now, when people assume that the interesting stuff STARTS at level 20, or 22, or after your first respec, or 38. . .)


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

It didn't hurt that being ok through the 30's made you ok all the way up to the lvl 40 cap


 

Posted

This has probably been discussed already, but this is a very long thread. It might take me forever to go through every single post.

Anyway, wouldn't allow Blasters the potential to score criticals like Scrappers do solve the damage problem? Damage cap aside, this would be a significant change that would put Blasters much closer to par with Scrappers.

As for defense, I'd really be happy if Blasters were offered some kind of mez protection, even if it's just in one of the epic pools. What mostly kills Blasters is not the low health or lack of defense or resistance but the mezzing that prevents them from using the better part of valor. Well, my blaster anyway. I always take Acrobatics because of all the knockback from 20 on up, but it would be nice to have an option that also protects against sleep and immobilization.

Other complaints I've heard about range and endurance cost seem silly. Just slot for range or end reduction. It seems like the only reason for the complaints in this regard is the complete lack of desire to slot for anything other than damage, which is why the damage cap thing is an issue in the first place.

Any thoughts?


 

Posted

When it's fairly questionable who is doing more damage: Blasters or Scrappers, slotting anything other than damage is only going to tip the scale further in the wrong direction. If Scrappers can slot all damage, but Blasters have to slot range, Blasters are going to lose what questionable advantage they have.

I don't think you realize how much the late game foes outrange us either. Tossing a range enhancement on won't help. People have been fully slotting Dmg/Range HOs (prior to the nerf) and say it only gives a minor range advantage over the late game mobs.


 

Posted

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I tried Range slotting.

Doesn't work.

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More specifically, the amount of time it takes a melee mob to get in range of you before you kill it is the SAME, whether you 6 slot for range or damage. Thus, 6 slotting for damage makes you more versatile when NOT soloing.


 

Posted

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Blasters should have more attack power for the primary set, the secondaries should deal dammage but should be used to stun or knockback the target so you can use your prime attacks again, melee shouldn't be so powerful because a blaster can't stand the dammage that a scrapper or tanker can do with melee. So I think that it's the blasts that should deal more dammage.


 

Posted

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Melee isn't supposed to be used as a primary attack when playing as a blaster, but is to be used to stun or knockback targets that get to close. Melee is still pretty much useless for a blaster against many scrappers and tankers because they will eventually kill you in pvp with a few punches and kicks that take out like one fifth of your health each attack. If the Blaster's defense is beefed up a bit, then maybe i would like to use it as offense.

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Would anyone be up to giving up melee powers for status protection. Maybe nothing as huge as the Melee protection, but something to prevent the occasional mez attack.

I would not mind it, but I know some people love the melee attacks.

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I would highly doubt we'll be seing mez protection again . It may have been purged, but in "Blasters and Burn" Statesman tried to explain that we were never menat to have mez protection.

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Posted

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The way I understand it, the Uber power that supposively made it "City of Blaster" was the smoke grenade, which got "adjusted" nearly out of existance. I really find this unbeliveable that one power in one secondary set of one Archtype makes it so that the entire archtype is so dominate. This seems so blow out of proportion. If this was the case, maybe it should have been called "City of Smoke Grenades"

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It was more than that. Blasters were the most popular AT, bar none. Tankers and Scrappers weren't as refined back then, and we didn't have good slotting data back then.

Not only that, but there wasn't any 40+ game, much less content, and the purple patch wasn't out yet.

Blasters are now typically 2nd and 3rd place in terms of online numbers now (I did some testing to confirm this) with Defenders and Controllers trailing and Tankers and Scrappers leading.


 

Posted

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Not only that, but there wasn't any 40+ game, much less content, and the purple patch wasn't out yet.


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um, the purple patch came in a LONG time before it stopped being City of Blasters.

CoB [sic] was caused by:

1. "Everyone" still being level 30 or less.

2. Smoke grenade, smoke grenade, smoke grenade. I teamed with a SG Blaster once and . . . it wasn't fair to the bad guys. It was a freakin' slaughterhouse: they stood there, we chopped them down.

3. Much less villain ranged damage in the lower levels. Outcasts had fewer powers, Trolls had weenie pistols, Warriors had weenie pistols, the Family had much lower-rate-of-fire machine guns, Warwolves didn't throw stuff . . . twelve feet of Hover and range WAS your defense.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

You mean there was ACTUALLY a time where range WAS defense????

It seems to me that the enviroment has changed so much in CoH as to have negatively affected the Blaster as an Archtype overall. The problem doen't seem to be nerf, as many people yell, it is more of the fact that many changes to the enviroment have been aimed at dealling with other Archtypes and tactics that the Blaster has been effectively forgotten about by the developers and left behind.


 

Posted

Yeah...in "ye oldern dayes" there were a good number of mobs without ranged attacks, and they were also to stupid to run from what they couldn't hit. That didn't really last very long.
However, that still didn't help much in a mission, and searching out those mobs to "street sweep" (not really sweeping if you're being that selective) in absolute safety was prohibitivly slow and tedious.


Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2

 

Posted

If "most enemies having range greater with peashooters" [BB's being a rather nasty thing to a blaster, killing him in two full-volleys from the average minion group if most of them hit] kills us, but "most enemies not having the range to outrange snipe" is an 'exploit' for blasters [even though the ability to regenerate faster than what 30 enemies can do even though they lack any way of removing said level of protection isn't, for some reason, despite being way faster]

Then can't there be a middle ground? Like, say, more Lt's and/or bosses in one group find themselves to be melee-only, while the minions keep their range? Or conversely for another group, only the Lt's and bosses have range but the minions don't [making the occasional minion-only small city-group popping up a pleasant treat for blasters]? Yet another group might just lower the range on the minon rifles to somewhere around, say, 120ft instead of 160+, but continue getting those nasty in-group sniper spawns?

OR, perhaps we could do like the old hellions and skulls, where only a FEW of them have pistols they can pop out, but since there's a wide variety of minions/spawn there would ALWAYS be a handful that way with the range?

That way we wouldn't be immune from it, but staying away would substantially lower damage against us, while not really changing much for the melees [since everything rushes to punch anyways]. Even if it means just 2-3 less in a hazard-zone spawn, or just "MINUS THE BOSS", this would actually mean range is worth something as a defense for us.

Besides, despite this, there would still be the fact that the mobs in a group that can't get within range to fire back would be doing what they always do now in this situation ANYWAYS: that is; running away.

Obviously, everything having better range than us to go with that damage they do is slaughtering blasters left and right. But Supposedly, blasters having a chance at outranging anything in the late game is an unacceptable easy-xp-cheat [despite the low low speed and it being just as risky as so many other AT-specific ways]. So if we can outrange SOME things in an enemy group, but be outranged by some OTHER things in a same group, this would fix our whole "not-quite-so-much-glass-as-crumbly-dried-styrofoam"-cannon balance a little...

or maybe just outranging those mezzers a little more often? that would be nice; it really sucks getting held 200ft away from a target...


 

Posted

If "most enemies having range greater with peashooters" [BB's being a rather nasty thing to a blaster, killing him in two full-volleys from the average minion group if most of them hit] kills us, but "most enemies not having the range to outrange snipe" is an 'exploit' for blasters [even though the ability to regenerate faster than what 30 enemies can do even though they lack any way of removing said level of protection isn't, for some reason, despite being way faster]

Then can't there be a middle ground? Like, say, more Lt's and/or bosses in one group find themselves to be melee-only, while the minions keep their range? Or conversely for another group, only the Lt's and bosses have range but the minions don't [making the occasional minion-only small city-group popping up a pleasant treat for blasters]? Yet another group might just lower the range on the minon rifles to somewhere around, say, 120ft instead of 160+, but continue getting those nasty in-group sniper spawns?

OR, perhaps we could do like the old hellions and skulls, where only a FEW of them have pistols they can pop out, but since there's a wide variety of minions/spawn there would ALWAYS be a handful that way with the range?

That way we wouldn't be immune from it, but staying away would substantially lower damage against us, while not really changing much for the melees [since everything rushes to punch anyways]. Even if it means just 2-3 less in a hazard-zone spawn, or just "MINUS THE BOSS", this would actually mean range is worth something as a defense for us.

Besides, despite this, there would still be the fact that the mobs in a group that can't get within range to fire back would be doing what they always do now in this situation ANYWAYS: that is; running away.

Obviously, everything having better range than us to go with that damage they do is slaughtering blasters left and right. But Supposedly, blasters having a chance at outranging anything in the late game is an unacceptable easy-xp-cheat [despite the low low speed and it being just as risky as so many other AT-specific ways]. So if we can outrange SOME things in an enemy group, but be outranged by some OTHER things in a same group, this would fix our whole "not-quite-so-much-glass-as-crumbly-dried-styrofoam"-cannon balance a little...

or maybe just outranging those mezzers a little more often? that would be nice; it really sucks getting held 200ft away from a target...

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, but blasters always have the running problem, eventually a scrapper is gonna catch up and kill you.
If Range is not our defense anymore, a scrapper or tank will have easy kills on us.
Blasters are supposed to kill the target before it even reaches you. But now that scrappers have second best ammount of health and best attack, a blaster is just pointless.


 

Posted

A valid point, but this is pretty much a PvE, not PvP discussion


Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2