I agree that blasters should have much more damage, unenhanced, and *FAR MORE* range. Seeing a scrapper a level or two below me take on mobs equal to or one higher than me was kind of insulting. I felt like a worthless AT, a faulty one, and I felt like I didn't contribute what other ATs could.
That's when I deleted my level 25 blaster 
Honestly, if they just implimented the changes I suggested at the begining of this thread the AT would be much more inline with scraps and tanks. It would be on par with defenders as well in the 40s. That is assuming that tanks and scraps are brought down a peg.
I have an extensive background of Scrapper work, starting with a Fire Tank who is my only Lv. 50 thus far [and took 900 hours to get there]. I'm excessively melee intensive, which may alter my experience a bit, but at no point on my [currently Lv. 29] AR/Energy Blaster have I EVER stopped and went, 'Wow! This is so much easier than when [Scrapper/Tanker alt] did it!' Not once.
Perhaps it's just Squishy Shock, but although I really dig my Blaster, I feel so weak playing him after running a bunch of Tanker and Scrappers through, and not only in terms of being killed but also in doing damage. Yes, I drop mobs fast but I get ripped to shreds doing it. Some of my Scrappers and definitely my Fire Tank can just keep running through bad guys all day. Some of them even get time for cigarette breaks while I'm heaving and panting my way to a bitter, often Pyrrhic victory.
Just some totally random observations.
@Ghost of Malta: The world's #1 Malta Group fanatic!
"Liberty and Justice by any means necessary."Virtueverse
The key is that Blasters will ALWAYS be a higher risk toon. Thats just how it is and what makes the AT unique. My level 48 fire/fire is sometimes a machine -Buildup plus INferno = lotsa dead oranges. With the same toon-I have also been killed by a yellow and a white (Stunned, then knockbacked and swiped before I could get off the ground by a -1 nemesis Boss and LT pair). Note that a tank or scrap will NEVER be killed by a yellow and a white. IN fact, most melees can stand amongst a group of 5 oranges , and not be at risk of death at all (its usually just a factor of how fast they can cut them down). The problem with this is not that they can stand in a group of 5 oranges ( i want that in a tank!)-its that they can cut them down as fast as my blaster! Ever watch an energy tank one shot and orange, then a yellow back to back? Ever watch a fire tank burn 30 whites and yellows solo? And scrappers do even more damage! If youive seen this then you know what I'm talking about.
So, assuming that the other Ats are balanced and only minor tweaks will be done to specific powersets, what you find is that blasters as an AT needs probably the most substantil tweaking in the game. Again a modest across the board dam and range increase, and a tweaking to secondaries. IF all secondaries were as diverse and effective as say, devices, then I'm sure it woudl close the gap for blasters...
"Note that a Scrapper will NEVER be killed by a yellow and a white". . .
if the white is a Sapper, and the yellow is a Malta lieut that stuns, yeah, I could see them dropping my toggles and chainstunning me to death.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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"Note that a Scrapper will NEVER be killed by a yellow and a white". . .
if the white is a Sapper, and the yellow is a Malta lieut that stuns, yeah, I could see them dropping my toggles and chainstunning me to death.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's like my blaster, except I don't need the sapper...
You haven't lived until you try soloing a "blue" Paragon Protector with an Nrg/Nrg Blaster.
Sorry did i say lived? 
Hasten, Aim, Buildup, Snipe, Power Blast, run
Paragon Protector follows after
Power Blast, Power Burst
Start taking damage...
Eat a couple of greens (out now)
Aim, Buildup, Snipe, Power Blast, Power Burst.
Take more damage & Die.
Now if it were green or gray Im pretty sure I could have taken it.
This was the defining moment for me. Level 39 Blaster loosing to a level 36 boss. Solo, I was not taking on a group.
This is when I stopped playing Blasters and Started playing Tanks. Dont get me wrong I loved playing Blasters, but will not anymore until the damage cap is raised significantly.
Oh and they were all slotted for 1 Acc and 5 Damage. (except for the Power Burst 1 Acc 1 Range 4 Damage).
[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]
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I have sidekicked up to some friends of mine and my observation has been that mobs simply deal too much damage overall, ranged or not, for Blasters to remain survivable. These bad guys are balanced on Tankers who have 6-slotted this and that, capped 90% resistance and in some cases stacked defense either from their primary or their power pool.
This means they are made to do exorbitant amounts of damage which, when combined with a Blaster's fragility, offers little or no leeway when it comes to getting killed. Even mobs' ranged attacks hit hard enough AND have enough secondary effects [-DEF, slow, -RCHG, immobilize among the worst] to make it impossible to avoid them entirely as seems to be Statesman's conception.
Ranged combat is impossible to sustain indefinitely, especially in hunting when maintaining range means aggroing other mobs standing around, and I have never seen a superhero who fights with one foot out the door.
Also,
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try soloing a "blue" Paragon Protector with an Nrg/Nrg Blaster.
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Where in the world are your melee attacks? Sidekicked to a Lv. 40 AR/Dev, my Lv. 28 with 5-slotted everything except Sniper Rifle [3] was very effective in wiping out red Paragon Protectors in a single volley; I would whittle them down until the point where they generally fire their panic button, then knock them down with M30 or Power Thrust and follow up with a Bonesmasher/Energy Punch combo that meant a guaranteed kill.
It's a method I learned from my Fire Tanker with KO Blow. 
@Ghost of Malta: The world's #1 Malta Group fanatic!
"Liberty and Justice by any means necessary."Virtueverse
never got within melee range. I kept my distance.
[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]
[url=http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114726][color=black][b][size=5]Moon [color=red]Hazard [color=black]Zone![/size][/color][/color][/color][/b][/url]
[ QUOTE ]
You haven't lived until you try soloing a "blue" Paragon Protector with an Nrg/Nrg Blaster.
Sorry did i say lived?
Hasten, Aim, Buildup, Snipe, Power Blast, run
Paragon Protector follows after
Power Blast, Power Burst
Start taking damage...
Eat a couple of greens (out now)
Aim, Buildup, Snipe, Power Blast, Power Burst.
Take more damage & Die.
Now if it were green or gray Im pretty sure I could have taken it.
This was the defining moment for me. Level 39 Blaster loosing to a level 36 boss. Solo, I was not taking on a group.
This is when I stopped playing Blasters and Started playing Tanks. Dont get me wrong I loved playing Blasters, but will not anymore until the damage cap is raised significantly.
Oh and they were all slotted for 1 Acc and 5 Damage. (except for the Power Burst 1 Acc 1 Range 4 Damage).
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You're doing it all wrong against PP's
BU/Power Boost/Total Focus/Bonesmasher/Power Burst/Aim/Total Focus/Bonesmasher/Power Burst....rinse and repeat....it won't ever even hit you in most cases.
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never got within melee range. I kept my distance.
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See, that's your problem. Blasters are much more affective in melee.
Sigh. Melee is your defense. Range is your weakness. Don't get mixed up, Golden Ace!
Remember, all the good status effects and all the real damage is done in melee...that includes you, not just the mobs.
Don't be confused by the mediocre looking Brawl index...AKAIK, all melee Blaster damage is multiplied by 1.1.
I hope this helps!
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
Sorry read somewhere that Blasters were the King's of ranged damage.
I wanted to play a Blaster not a Scrapper.
On a side not the tactics worked fine up until I hit the 30s
[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]
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No, blasters are suppose to be kings of damage period.
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never got within melee range. I kept my distance.
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See, that's your problem. Blasters are much more affective in melee.
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Which, of course, proves what we already knew. A 10-20% boost is all that Blasters really need to be "balanced". Boom. Done. Heh, I'm so punny.
There will still be other issues, but the melee range attacks show every day, all day, that more damage is precisely what Blasters need to work the way they should.
Heck, we even know about how much they need, too. Really takes the guesswork out.
Oops, was I supposed to not state the obvious? Sorry.
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
Its safe to say, that is one of the things that really digs into my skin. I picked a blaster because I wanted to shoot things to death/submission. I didnt look at the blaster and say, yeah, I can beat my enemies into submission I said that when I looked at scrappers. I play Assault Rifle, Devices because it is perfect for the way I wanted my blaster to be. A trapper, setting up traps that make my enemies pay for trying to close the gap between them and me. It just eats at my skin to see the primary of an AT (any of them but I believe blasters are most noted on the boards) apparently be the weaker.
I always view the process of primary/secondary as Primary being strongest/ secondary support.
Primary life support has gone down, secondary has been activated. Prepare for evac.
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I always view .....
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Yes, well Statesman did say that it was a matter of perception so no surprise there.
[note: these are more or less generalistic comments; we all know there's an exception or two to each of them; but even two or three of those sticking to a build would be too much. And its more like 'all but two-or-three' right now]
Well we *Percieve* a big red "go to hospital" button very often.
We *Percieve* our HP going from full to "two or three regen ticks under half" with a single volley from an average [4-6] group of white or yellow minions.
We *Percieve* ourselves as "held" for long periods of time one fight after the last of our 15-breakfrees we'd brought for the mission run out.
We *Percieve* some "go to hospital" button popping out of nohwere 20 seconds after the previous perception.
We *Percieve* a good chunk of mid and late-game villains to have much better range with their peashooters (those same weapons that take off those big chunks of green-bar) than we can hope to without tanking our damage down to the bare minimum in exchange for full range-slotting... on our sniper-shot.
We *Percieve* everyone using the magical "Tab" and "Left mouse button" keys to "pick and choose their targets" as they want, something thats supposedly a special advantage to blasters-only.
We *Percieve* that enemies which, like us, would normally TRY to stay away, at range, where they're safe from the melees, instead float over to the nearest teammate with a big "Slice Me PLZ" sign written in wax-crayon on their face, removing yet another way we could be useful to a team.
We *Percieve* every other AT coming damn close to what we can dish out, or at least having massive buffs/debuffs for teammates to do the same.
We *Percieve* those same non-blasters soaking/deflecting/pet-shunting up the mezzing and damage at rates we can't even begin to fathom, even if we combine pools with APP's and use cloaking-device.
We *Percieve* the only exception to that being some defenders, whom are too busy healing everyone or keeping bubbles up to really cause much, if any, aggro compared to their team [but being in the same boat as us if alone.]
We *Percieve* that lategame, the only time we're useful is for a few seconds before we die [dying makes us very not-useful while we suffer from it], and the only time we don't die is when we're phase-shifted [under which. lacking 9 imps or 3 phantasms+decoys we really can't be very useful] or staying away and NOT attacking. Attacking, by the way, is the main function and primary raison-d'ètre of the blaster.
And of course, we *Percieve* that we're even less capable on teams than solo, because its harder to control the situation when there's people running around that aren't either you or the targets, and because later on teams tend to go after purple things, which don't die when you hit them, and thus turn around and waste you where you stand.
Statesman is absolutely right: its definitely a perception of ours that we die more than everyone and can't handle nearly as much even when teamed. Just happens to involve our eyes and the monitor, that's all.
I was referring to Aracades dislike of melee in the blaster secondary and Aracades dislike of the proportional damage.
Nice summation though.
Actualy while I don't like to be in melee range with my blaster, its not a problem to me. What bugs me a bit is how its viewed as being stronger then the primary.
You... ok I... would figure if one was to make a total damage class, damage done by both primary and secondary would both clock as great... not good/awesome.
Hey, you gave me an idea though.
Use AOE strong primary, Energy Secondary.
Primary knocks out the minions and lts of enemy groups, Secondary to take down the bosses. Just need to avoid the one shot KO...
Hmm... time for some planning...
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This is what I would like to see happen to blasters.
1. Impliment PvP damage resist bypass in PvE.
2. Increase the range of all primary powers to be greater than the Diameter of Foot Stomp. Greater.
3. Take all PbAoE status effects and toggles in Blaster Secondaries and make them summonable drops or target toggles. Other than cloaking device of course.
4. Make all current melee attacks have a range of 20 feet, either by changing the animations or just letting them have the range. Increase the damage on Melee AoE attack powers again.
5. (stolen idea) Give each single target attack a -10% res that lasts 5 seconds. This not only helps boost the blasters damage a minute amount but also allows the blaster to help a team. Thus encouraging teaming.
6. Swap the damage caps of blasters and scrappers.
7. Remove the rooting effect from blaster attacks.
8. Faster activation times on powers for blasters.
9. Making level 32 nukes into more useable AoE powers like Head Splitter or Full-Auto and less situational all end consuming powers.
Just my thoughts on where I would like blasters to go.
[/ QUOTE ] Okay heres when stupiditty shows his face,( swaping dmg caps) that just plain stupid I admmit blaster dmg dmg cap is lower than scrapps but theres a good reason why, scrapps are frotline fighters, and blaster stay on there sofa chair throwing power until the run away warning.You got to admitt that most of the time your safe and sound( I know that your feel not contributing to the group) but in my experience I find blaster can be more helpful if they last longer and the devs just make there attacks a little stronger( not swaping dmg cap beacuse thats kinda outrageous especially with scrapps that are losing there defenses and some are just broken) in the end as a scrapp and tank I still approved of the extra dmg upgrade and a little more defense( not defense cap of scrapps totally( universal meaning of defense BTW))
Of course Im always willing to join with any blaster no matter there build( eng not against it but a little problematic for me
) good luck getting a better defenses and attack power(no swaping!)
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Use AOE strong primary, Energy Secondary.
Primary knocks out the minions and lts of enemy groups, Secondary to take down the bosses. Just need to avoid the one shot KO...
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Exactly what I do. Nothing but a boss [I run on Heroic, mind you] will survive my Build Up-> Bonesmasher-> Energy Punch combo. On the same note, no minion yellow con or below will survive my six-slotted Flamethrower and M30 grenade.
When I pick up Full-Auto and Buckshot, there will be some serious cone stacking... Err, if they even survive.
[ QUOTE ]
Okay heres when stupiditty shows his face,( swaping dmg caps) that just plain stupid I admmit blaster dmg dmg cap is lower than scrapps but theres a good reason why, scrapps are frotline fighters, and blaster stay on there sofa chair throwing power until the run away warning.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bullsh*t. You're a moron if you think that range does anything to keep Blasters out of trouble. Play a Blaster. Or read the hundreds, maybe thousands of posts on this forum and others about how RANGE IS NOT A GOOD ENOUGH EXCUSE.
Now, I used to be a full-on melee player [1 Tanker, 12 or 13 Scrappers] and to this day if it doesn't go into melee I refuse to play it. Read the freakin' manual. Blasters are supposed to be the masters of damage dealing but with Critical Hits and a higher damage cap, that's Scrappers. Scrapper defenses may be getting nerfed BUT how does that help the DEFENSE-LESS Blasters at ALL?
Now I remember back when I first rolled my Fire Tank, about a month after beta ended, and I remember the City of Blasters. But I think the Devs have gone too far with pounding the nails into the coffins of Blasters all over Paragon, and playing my AR/Energy I really start to feel like that poor whipping-boy Fire Tank again, who would hang his head in shame when -- hey, guess what? -- that SCRAPPER showed up sporting mez protection, BETTER defenses than mine, and more damage.
I guess I have a penchant for getting the short end of the stick. Even when I made a Scrapper, it was a Claws/SR... Whom I put 32 levels on, then deleted to get out of Gimp City.
@Ghost of Malta: The world's #1 Malta Group fanatic!
"Liberty and Justice by any means necessary."Virtueverse
[ QUOTE ]
States:
here is the flaw in your logic - blasters are supposed to be th edamage kings, but scrappers potentially do more damage, they get this bonus because they HAVE to be in melee range to be effective, right? But they get defenses to make it so they can survive in melee range...
and then they get more damage on top of those defenses. It is like you thought you needed to balance them by buffing them up, but then kind of went overboard.
They have the survivability. They have the HPs they have the resistance or defense, they have the ability to heal themselves. (except for SR) They have mez protection.
With lower HPs, no mez protection, no ability to heal themselves (except through aid self) the blaster can't even survive ranged attacks, even if they are supposedly weaker than melee attacks.
It sounds like you're hinting that blasters might get more Hps. That would be a good start. maybe hold/dissorient protection in secondaries, and more damage... that would be balanced in my eyes.
[/ QUOTE ] I can agree with that more hp and extra protection I found it real fair even for me beacuse as the above post punch the lights out of me and Im still regaining concience( that hurt man) the extra range doesn't help in indoor mishes and blaster need there human shields for that..sigh..no one is happy these days... I think state should give more health some protection at least 30% of scrapps,fair
you should also recieve that highest dmg cap of the game but still you should still be squishies( no offense people) just with a extra resistence and maybe some extra recharge on your powers but that would go a little overboard there hehe.
I am unaware of why Blasters, which are supposed to be the most damaging AT in the game, having the highest damage cap is bad. Tankers get the highest damage resistance cap, and that's what they're for, as it stands, this is like scrappers having the highest damage resistance cap, with tanks baselinging as the lowest.
I could understand sharing the cap, but not having it is just bad form, and having the worst damage cap (even shared) with easy ways to reach it alone is also in bad form.
I'm pretty sure that blasters will never get any type of mez protection. This is what makes blasters the ultimate "squishy", which helps define the AT. Besides-you can always pack break -frees for the tough times, and pop em like candy. However, the ultimate squishy in most games is also the highest damage dealer, and to me that is the crux of this discussion-blasters dont currently outdamage the other ATs. IN Sheer DPS, other ATs I mentioned previously (Fire/Ill trollers, most scrappers, some tankers (fire) and defenders (rad or dark), outdamage most blasters.
So, the only way to offset making this the least defensive AT is to make it the most offensive, and thats where the boost is needed. More dam, higher cap, better innate (unenhanced) range. These are the tweaks needed to bring blasters back to a point of equity with other ATs in the game.