Issue 4 Changes for Gravity - Official Thread

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This is where I get worried. I'm glad you like the new wormhole, but the fact you respec'd into it suggests you didn't use the old wormhole.

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Don't be worried. I hate the old wormhole. I am truly sorry for you that they made this change to a power you liked. However, I hope they keep it as an AoE. It now has a use for me and I am sure many other gravity controllers who already feel we have plenty of single target control.

My testing suggests to me that those who liked it as a single target control tool will find it is more useful this way if they keep an open mind and don't get overly pouty (no insult intended, I get pouty too when i am bummed about something).

It has flaws that other sets 2nd tier AoE control powers don't have. I hope they fix those before it goes live, otherwise it could be problematic. I have played around with it on test some more and the more I use it the more I like it. I hope all you single target controllers give it a fair shake and try to change your mentality to become real controllers (something we as Gravity have been sadly lacking until now). I do not think this change puts us on par with the other sets as far as mass battlefield control goes, but it does help. I felt much more useful control-wise on big teams (3 missions, team of 6, and two runs with 7 men teams) as I could use GDF, then wormhole a 2nd group, then either wormhole again (it recharges decently with perma-hasten and one recharge, I think I will put 2 recharges into it eventually) or GDF might be back up depending how long the battle took. Accidental agro was much easier to handle with wormhole to fall back on while GDF was recharging, and no one was bummed that the extra baddies that were charging us were delayed by 8-10 seconds from impacting us, and these guys who were accidentally agroed by another teammate never shot at me during the wormhole activation (but they could still act and shoot whoever agroed them until they ported, I noticed).

I can see that lots of work has been done on the test server. Lots of calculations and valuable info here. Tnx a lot for the affords.

Some think that gravity do not need any improvements, some think it does. What i know is it is the least seen control type at high levels. Lots of players start one and give it up.

These changes were necessary. tnx for the work

My problem - and worry - is that I'm losing a tool and gaining nothing to replace it.

For those who didn't take either wormhole or dimension shift, respec-ing into the new wormhole may seem like fun.

Dimension shift handles a second group of adds much better than new wormhole does.

End result - we now have two tools for doing the same job, rather than two tools for two different jobs.

I feel like a plumber who had a wrench and a screwdriver, but the screwdriver has been taken off me and I've been given a second wrench and told to cope.

And my pleas for a spanner go unanswered...


I'd ask anyone respec-ing into the new wormhole to try respec-ing into dimension shift and experimenting with using it as fringe control too. You may be surprised.

Good point about Dimension shift. However dimension shift has that whole cannot arrest badguys and "weeee" another alpha strike issue. I have tested dimension shift, and I don't like it, but I agree it can be used well for a second group of adds or as a run away power.
Wormhole can do those things, but is useful in many other situatons as well.
Look at it this way.
You lost a screwdriver, but gravity has plenty of other screwdrivers.
Where before we had one great wrench, now we might have two wrenches (depending on whether or not they fix the issues the new wormhole has).

Not that I would mind replacing dimension shift (or wormhole) with a Reverse Gravity Field with knockup that operated bascially the same as ice patch. Have I mentioned how classic a reverse gravity field/upside down room is?

I figure the devs looked at the data and more people had DS than wormhole, and considering our biggest weakness was AoE they were loathe to remove one AoE and replace it with another. Now gravity has 4 AoE powers, and while I dislike DS personally, I can see its use as a battlefield control tool on a much higher scale than another single target effect like wormhole.

Wormhole Seems less accurate even enhanced the same on test, and I will bet here's why.

It rolls on each mob... maybe if there was a way to make it roll on the group... you know if you get one, you get them all, instead of 75% chance on each mob (base)

That way if you hit you hit; that's control.

If you miss, you miss all and have the space to throw out your nice long GDF animation.

I still prefer the single target version, and I feel like we are not being listened to on what we need, and I notice in the dev digest that the Tankers and Scrappers have gotten several replies on their concerns, and yet we have no replies on ours,

Also when the changes in I3 made the tanks and scraps cry out that now they needed a free respec (I know there were other reason, like the epp's for them too but the scraps and tank changes were a sited reason in dev posts) BAM free respec, and On this point I would just like to say Bravo for the controllers...instead of whining "Give us a freebie" those of us who could went and earned one (I actually have banked 2 in the last week, and have gotten MANY invites to join respec teams from other controllers)

Of course if you can't earn any more, there's nothing you can do, but bravo to you for still not demanding a freebie.

I read through this thread and I see very little whining, I see for the most part well thought out, TESTED reasoning and examples. It's a shame we can't get a dev response.

My vote is for old wormhole...It wasn't broken, and the change doesn't fix what was broken with grav. It's a change, not a fix.

I like the Idea of making Propel a cone, as someone earlier said, how does a chevy only hit one guy? I also think there should be a disorient on it, I mean...you hit them with a pool table, there should be concussion involved.

so them's my thoughts.

here here on the"propel into a cone" idea....i've always wondered how i'm soo surgical with a forklift.

I've tried the new wormhole on test and here's my opinion... Switch the level slots of Dimension Shift and Wormhole... Give us the old Wormhole at the earlier level, get rid of Dimension Shift (I've never seen another Grav use it or possess it after their first respec) and replace it with the new Wormhole... Dimension Shift was a nice idea, but it just never "worked" right (i.e. The animation is almost impossible for non-Grav Controllers to recognize), which seemed to always lead to grief in the team...
Example: Team is getting hammered by mobs due to accidental cross-aggro. Controller hits Dimension Shift to "even the odds". Teammates get pissed due to their targets suddenly becoming intangible and don't bother to listen to the bind the Controller sends to warn them. In one case using Dimension Shift got me kicked off a team after the first time I used it with the team.
That's just my 2 influence...

My vote is we need something to fix us, not change the archetype whole-hog.

While I think that changing Dim.Shift to an AoE lift and wormhole to AoE and moving them around sounds great, that's definitely into the 'need respec' territory - we'd become a whole new powerset.

Moving powers around will be really problematic. Lets say I have dim.shift but not wormhole. They get swapped. Do I keep dim.shift? Or do I suddenly lose dim.shift and get wormhole? If so, what happens to the intangibiliy enhances I have slotted into it? If I keep dim.shift, what happens if I'm pre-26? Do I suddenly have a lvl 26 power even though I am only level 14?
These questions are all rhetorical - it's to show moving powers is something devs are likely to consider only after all other possible options have been exhausted.

I expect what the devs are looking for is something that is a single, small tweak that will fix the powerset without having to move powers around or fundamentally change their role. Certainly nothing requiring re-coding if it can be avoided - just some number juggling on an excel spreadsheet.

Changing wormhole to AoE is likely checking the AoE? checkbox and putting in a radius value. My issue is this does fundamentally change the behaviour of the power to something very different than its current role. Adding an AoE disorient onto propel is likely just as easy for a dev to do and doesn't change what propel's current role is; smack a target with something heavy becomes smack-a-target and make him and buddies concussed. If anyone uses propel as a surgical control tool rather than for its damage, please speak up now.

I get the feeling that this would not make everyone happy with every power, but it would make the least number of people unhappy while fixing our powerset's main weakness - control gap.

Redesigning the entire powerset from the ground up is too ambitious to try all at once. Small moves...

The new wormhole: LOVE IT

The nerfed Phaseshift: HATE IT

Ok. I know you cut the duration for PvP but it is one of our only weapons vs. the VERY under nerfed SCRAPPERS. If phaseshift would go back to normal I could help my team take down 1+ Scrappers & tanks better.

Thank you for your reasoned and detailed arguments about the powers and how they've changed Nexus_X.

Since I'm not interested in PvP I won't be taking DShift. It does have some applications in solo PvE but since Grav is so slow to solo with anyways pre-32, I simply can't solo anything worth using DShift on with enough speed to make it worth my time. On teams, well teams don't like DShift outside of PvP even on the test server.

Wormhole however has changed considerably and, in my opinion, for the worse. The primary use previously was to move one target anywhere in sight. I has a long animation and activation time for it's value, but is quite useful for precision manipulation of targets that are resistant or immune to normal control methods. Pulling, repostitioning in combat, and sending DE/FF generators/autoturrets away are all nice uses when solo and in large and small groups.

The Wormhole on test is now less useful to me. It's still a nice pulling tool if you have a tank or /Dev blaster, mabey even after level 32 when you have Sings. Unfortunately pre-32 without a tank using it to pull is risky, because things come back after the controller after the 5 second disorient plus you aggroed the entire group and missed some of them. Also unfortunately, the longish animation and requirement for a tank or multiple AoE powers in the group means that teams generally don't seem to want to wait for the controller to pull. Normally the tank/scrappers just walk in and grab aggro by attacking, why wait for the controller to pull if that works just as well? So to me the power has become less generally suitable for pulling in groups and solo.

The ability to reposition in combat has been a bit lessened due to the stringing effect, the power is simply not precise anymore. It can be used as an AoE knockdown/knockback power if you don't move them any distance, except you have that ungodly long animation for an AoE knockdown power. I can't even qualify the disorient as control because of the extremely short disorient, the power can't be effectivly used as an AoE disorient without a meaningfully enhanceable disorient duration. Simple words, five second disorient ain't doing anything.

I can't justify using the new Wormhole to send stuff away as an AoE without already using a hold/immobilize power before. Again this means that long animations are a detriment to using the power because you're using two powers with long animations. Sending single targets away is a good tatic because you can pick things that can't move (DE fungi/cairns) or you can stick a single target immobilize/slow/hold on them to increase the time they take to return. Single target powers work well with this because of fast recharge rates, good base durations, and they are normally highly slotted for effect as opposed to accuracy and recharge. Just try to remove a DE fungi from combat with AoE Wormhole, your team will not thank you because any fungus/devoured you also unaviodably send away will start throwing holds, poisons, and swarms at them.

To my mind the change in Wormhole from single target to AoE has changed it from a power that moved one enemy anywhere, to an AoE knockback/knockdown with limited pulling applications. Wormhole seems like a strange Gale/AoE TP Foe hybrid now and suffers from an excessive animation and endurance cost for such a power. Granted the animation was rather too long for what it did in the first place, but it is an even larger drawback on an AoE knockabout power than on the single target version.

Wormhole would be improved with shorter animations or longer disorient, not by a change to AoE.

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My vote is we need something to fix us, not change the archetype whole-hog.
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I expect what the devs are looking for is something that is a single, small tweak that will fix the powerset without having to move powers around or fundamentally change their role. Certainly nothing requiring re-coding if it can be avoided - just some number juggling on an excel spreadsheet.
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Redesigning the entire powerset from the ground up is too ambitious to try all at once. Small moves...

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I agree with this philosophy. I would also like to add that I am not in favor of the proposed changes to wormhole. The old version is a very useful, if situational power. The new version lacks the precision that makes the old one useful.

If you have been reading the controller forum for any length of time, you will realize that the biggest problem with gravity is what has been called the control gap. This term refers to our lack of an effective secondary AOE control measure after GDF has been expended.

There are a couple of simple ways to fix this problem without redesigning the whole powerset, or damaging the effectiveness of existing powers. 1) add a disorient to crushing field that would last for the duration of the immob. 2) Remove the agro generation from CF. This would make it less of a suicide tool at higher levels. 3) Significantly drop the recharge timer on GDF, enabling it to be used more often during a battle.

Any one of these modifications would go a long way toward fixing the control gap. Because they only involve adding improvements to existing powers, they are unlikely to offend current users of these powers.

I ahve a level 34 grav buddy.

he chain holds everyone in the arena

We did test, I got pwnzored everytime

There was no immunity, the change, no hope

Stop complaining, you rule

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I expect what the devs are looking for is something that is a single, small tweak that will fix the powerset without having to move powers around or fundamentally change their role. Certainly nothing requiring re-coding if it can be avoided - just some number juggling on an excel spreadsheet.


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I agree and this is one of the reasons I don't like the change to Wormhole (fundamentally changes a power that can't be duplicated by any other) while I do like the suggestion of adding an impact based area Disorient to Propel. Having an Area Disorient centered on an enemy target keeps the theme of Propel, there are already other powers that have effects centered on enemy targets (Transfusion and Transference for example) so there's already code in place, and any damage lost to the set by increasing the recharge on Propel can easily be made up with Lift and Crush.

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I ahve a level 34 grav buddy.

he chain holds everyone in the arena

We did test, I got pwnzored everytime

There was no immunity, the change, no hope

Stop complaining, you rule

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thanks for reading the entire thread /end sarcasm

to get to the point where we "pwnzor" in the arena, there is something that has to happen first, and that something is called leveling.

We can't do that in the arena, and we can't do it easily in PvE. It is a long haul to pets for grav controllers and we are discussing things that would make that process easier.

we are discussing, in this thread, the control gap that gravs have and the "fix" the devs gave us that actually removed an element of control from us.

Our single target tp fow+disO+ knockback has been changed to an AoE that has inferior dis-o and when it misses mobs aggroes them so instead of pulling one without aggroing a group, we now alert the entire group and the ones we don't pull come running over all annoyed and ready to kill us.

we also can no longer move mob's pets (cairns, trees og life Auto turrets, etc.)

this thread is not about whether or not we can hack it in the arena (believe it or not, not everyone cares about that the most out of all the changes in the game) This thread is about some much needed and long awaited changes to a powerset that we were finally asked our opinion on even though it is beginning to look like we were not listened to in the original thread, and it also looks like our concerns are going unaddressed in this thread.


also zorrazian...
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There are a couple of simple ways to fix this problem without redesigning the whole powerset, or damaging the effectiveness of existing powers. 1) add a disorient to crushing field that would last for the duration of the immob. 2) Remove the agro generation from CF. This would make it less of a suicide tool at higher levels. 3) Significantly drop the recharge timer on GDF, enabling it to be used more often during a battle.


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while I like your suggestion about Crushing field (a lot) I don't think they will give that too us, mainly because "heaven forbid we get a group lock down that damages" they will most likely see that as over powered...it's too much to hope for really althou Personally I say "drool" for that

I don't see how they could remove the aggro generation from it without making it a lock down... every other controller gets a group immob and they have to deal with aggro, so unless they change all of these to lock downs, Again I don't see it happening.

I think lowering the recharge time on GDF is an Excellent Idea though, we need to slot it for accuracy and Hold, and have very few (if any) slots we can spare on it for recharges

If they gave it an inherent acc boost (equal to one slot) and a Hold duration increase (equal to two slots) then I would pop recharges in it, but I would prefer they just lower the recharge...I find it silly that I can get 2 sings out before GDF recharges. I shudder to think how slow it would recharge without hasten.

I think even though I Love all your suggestions, the most we can hope for is a drop on the recharge time for GDF.

and of course I still say Propel should be a cone and dis-O

and I might keep saying it..

Not a cone. Please not a cone. Cones are too unreliable and too dependant on exact positioning to be of much use as a real control function. Instead, I think the preferred method would be the other suggestion of giving Propel an AoE disorient radiating out from the point of Impact.

And I'm not sure that increasing the recharge time on Propel is really necessary considering the long casting time on it already. Sure it may recharge faster than some other control type powers but most others also do not include that ungodly long activation animation either.

If it is necessary, you can always just reduce the duration of the disorient to offset the recharge rate. Remember, we are trying to keep from changing Propel so much that it no longer fills it's other long standing function as a single target direct damage attack. Increasing the recharge time would hurt that function and isn't really necessary.

My personal opinion is that even with the damage bonus added in I4, Propel STILL takes entirely too long to activate and use. Which means better than half the time your striking an already dead target anyway. The addition of an AoE disorient, to me, would (finally) justify the current activation time even with the added damage left as is.

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There are a couple of simple ways to fix this problem without redesigning the whole powerset, or damaging the effectiveness of existing powers. 1) add a disorient to crushing field that would last for the duration of the immob. 2) Remove the agro generation from CF. This would make it less of a suicide tool at higher levels. 3) Significantly drop the recharge timer on GDF, enabling it to be used more often during a battle.


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while I like your suggestion about Crushing field (a lot) I don't think they will give that too us, mainly because "heaven forbid we get a group lock down that damages" they will most likely see that as over powered...it's too much to hope for really althou Personally I say "drool" for that

I don't see how they could remove the aggro generation from it without making it a lock down... every other controller gets a group immob and they have to deal with aggro, so unless they change all of these to lock downs, Again I don't see it happening.

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More importantly, a single power with both disorient and immob effects is exactly the same as a true hold for all practical purposes. And they're not gonna give us two AE holds.

I hesitated to come in here and post after testing because I didn't want to mindlessly parrot here. However, since the Devs called for us to post, I'm adding my experiences to the mass as my 'vote'. But I want to pass on thanks to all those who have already posted, I think I had a better idea of what to look for and consider when I tried out my I4 version.

After getting Wormhole on live servers, I instantly put it to use attempting (sometimes succesfully, sometimes not) to snag outer mobs in a controlled pulling. Also very handy to port extra lts/bosses with AE powers out of the way so that multiples of them aren't a pain. And of course, able to pull bosses out of mobs to a tactically favored location so that they could be handled first and the lower mobs dealt with after.

When helping out with 'Defeat x of mob' missions, very handy to preceisly manage the number we or just I had to deal with. Use most often applied was snagging runners and placing them back in the already going AoE effects of allies.

Now with the I4 version, I have to be very picky as to when I use it. Can still bring bosses, but now with their accompanying lts/mins which we were trying to aviod. Some ability to place them in AoE effects (if there). Spread out mobs tend to generate more aggro than seems worth it. If I port a group of mobs, they're off somewhere and heading back after disorient wears, while their buddies around them are all aggroed on me. If not able to remove group that's still there from the fight (which with a grav controller is a slow process to defeat a large number of mobs) I ended up putting myself in a pincer effect. Any student of tactics will tell you that being in a pincer in not generally a wise choice, so I certainly don't want my team subjected to a poor tactical situation. I also seem to generate more aggro with the AoE Wormhole, than with the single target wormhole. Perhaps its just perception.

As far as Dimension Shift goes, never planned on taking it, and still don't. Based on the description of the power, not the claims of others, I chose not to take it. The teams I run with and my tactical choices just don't use it. I'm sure I could find uses for it, but I still choose not to. Same can be said for Propel. Don't have it and chose not to get it. Looks beautiful, but not so effective in my team running. I'd love it to have for a 'cool factor' power, but its not in my build currently. As soon as combat starts, I'm laying holds and immobs. If used for anything but an opening shot, Propel is less useful to me than the holds/immobs I could lay out in the same amount of time. No I don't have Sing's yet, so it may make a difference then.


My suggestions in order of preference(watch out, probably the same as have been said before. )

1)
* Keep single target wormhole.

* Replace Dimension Shift with "Gravity Well" - AoE 'patch' Disorient where mobs are drawn towards center of effect. I think this fits conceptually better with gravity set and I know it would be a more applicable choice in my personal tactics. Also still serves as an "oh crap" power if that was the intended use of DShift, but still lets your team take care of the mobs when they want to, not when the power lets them.

* Decrease animation time on Propel. I realize that damage increase probably neccesitate a balancing of time, but since long animation times are the bane of our existence, I personally would be willing for same damage/added effect/cone perhaps so that animation time could be lessened. - I know the game code probably would need a lot added since we don't have a destructable environment, but to me the best "fix" for Propel would be for it to act like the Gravity Gun from HalfLife2. Perhaps this can be added to the 'wish list' for things down the pipe.

2)
* Keep single target wormhole.

*Replace DS with AoE wormhole.

*Decrease Propel animation time


As always, I'll work with what I have, but those are just my opinions on what I like and don't. Great comments everyone, thanks for suffering the musings here.

I agree with all of your suggestions. The only problem would be that the gravity well would most likely take some time to code.

Something easier might be the AoE lift, but what if unlike the ice slick it would actually be a one time hit. Then one could place several recharges and knockbacks into it to potentially lock down a group. The draw back would be that the controller would have to keep using the power to lock down the group.

There is one thing to think about. If propel gets an AoE disorent then any enemy mobs with propel will also get this. Think how this might impact those in their 20's fighting the family.

As far as coding (now I make no real claims to know what the devs have) but I don't think it should be too bad. Lets say for example you use the core Singularity animation, minus its repel field, for the center of the Grav Well/Sink/Flux power. Put the grav swirlies on the affected mobs, apply the effect qualities, especially if those qualities of Foe -Speed, Knockback, etc are just applied functions/qualities/however they define them. Given that affects are shared among mobs and players, I would hope that they are able to just define the mob/power object with its qualities. Don't really know, but I'll cross my fingers that its an easy setup for the Devs.

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There is one thing to think about. If propel gets an AoE disorent then any enemy mobs with propel will also get this. Think how this might impact those in their 20's fighting the family.

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Hehe, yeah, reminds me of my first time facing off with a Consig...I realized what a pain you can be with those powers. You are right to mention the considerations, especially with PvP concerns.

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Something easier might be the AoE lift, but what if unlike the ice slick it would actually be a one time hit. Then one could place several recharges and knockbacks into it to potentially lock down a group. The draw back would be that the controller would have to keep using the power to lock down the group.

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That, and if the controller couldn't lock the group down completely it'd build some pretty heavy aggro. The power would have to be tuned with that in mind.

If it were tuned so that it were useful and not a death sentence for the controller like crushing field often is, I would absolutely love an AE lift. It's very in keeping with the feel of the gravity control set.

I haven't read the entire thread and I'm just going to voice my own perspective on the gravity changes:

AOE Wormhole - I love it! Although, I had wormhole slotted with one acc and three ranges before these changes went live. The old wormhole is missed yes. It was a situational power that had so many different uses that it almost became as commonly used as my holds. =P But the new wormhole is wonderful, it took some getting used to, but on test I used it as a regular crowd control AOE with great results (except for the very, very short disorient that I feel should be upped).

Alas, I must agree that a single target wormhole should still exist in our sets for use in these situations when you really need to get rid of a tough enemy, throw away a DE eminator or just plain wish to pull something. Sure, I can use detention field myself for some of those, but others can not. =/ Also, one can get TP Foe, but it's not as powerful or cool as single target wormhole. I'm no big fan of dimension shift (although I can see where it has it's uses but I've never ever felt the need for it myself) so I could see that gone and a single target added back in. ^^

Singularity dmg resistance and endurance cost reduction - Where did this come from? I found my singys hard to kill already and when I smack bubbles on them now, they're insane. ;P It's appreciated, I guess, but I didn't feel it was necessary. Even without bubbling them.

Propel Damage - O_o My jaws dropped as I got in my first triple damage propel attack on the first player and dark defender I faced in the arena. I likes the new propel damage and it's definetely something that'll help teen-gravity solo better. ^^ Don't touch the animation time on this one, I still love to watch Voidchild slowly conjure up a car and then smashing it into her enemies. And now it actually does some damage as well. =D

May have left something out, some important point.. Oh well.. ^^

My best friend and I duo alot and I'm just gonna add my 2cents to the mix as a teammate/partner to a grav/rad.

First and Foremost we abhor the changes to Wormhole. It completely negates all uses we had for the power. Which were situational before but still very much there. Now he's most likely to drop the power entirely and get yet another mostly useless pool power instead. Wormhole for us was our pull and place power and for that use it was great. We could manipulate mobs to sizes of our choosing and He could manage the mob to get all those lil guys into my killing field (Fire Blaster) Bottomline for us is wormhole was helpful before and now simply sucks.

Secondly if you wanted to "fix" a power for the gravity controllers you should be looking at dimension shift. I've seen several good suggestions here for that. I'm very much in favor of the Gravity Well AoE disorient since that could help gravity with thier lack of hold in comparison to the other sets. Or if the Dev's prefer create a new name for your AoE version Wormhole and give them that over Dimension shift.

Basically all i ask is that whatever changes you apply to gravity please leave the current Live version of wormhole alone. Alot of players like/use it and changing it to fix some holes in the set when thier are alot of other powers that could use a boost first is not what we hand in mind.

Thanks

I personally don't like the idea of an aoe lift power as a substitute for dimention shift. (For a few reasons) Mainly an aoe lift power will still give you a pretty hefty alpha strike, even if you could put enough recharge into the power to keep everyone in the air all the time. Secondly your going to miss sometimes, and then you'll get two volleys of alpha, sure you might say but an aoe hold also misses. This is true, but an aoe hold stops the second volley (those who did fly and are now getting up onto their feet). Thirdly, I don't want to see some of the unique qualities of gravity being replaced by similar ones. Essentially making gravity two bit powersets- lift and hold.

As for dimention shift, I think it is perfectly fine as is in PVE. It's a panic button, and a segregator. However, I do feel that dimention shift's true potential is yet to be tapped by the dev team in PvP. They've set the precedence by tweaking powers and how they work in the two settings (pvp and pve). Powers which are useless in PvE have been given some attention in PvP. Brawl is the easiest example to put forth, but there are many others. These intangible powers, should do 2 things, the first is return phase shifters to reality -and- prevent them from returning into phase. If someone is caught in phase shift, by an intangible power they'll have to suffer the dregs of reality for the length of the dimention shift/blackhole. The other thing Dshift should do is *drum roll* drop toggles. Now this may seem very powerfull, and yes it is. But consider this. When the toggles drop, you the controller still can't do anything to the target. They are essentially phased. So essentially it becomes a race between the target and the controller to see who can get their powers in fastest after the intangibility falls. In this sense shift would work completly differently from other toggle drops, it would drop toggles fairly reliably, but on the other hand it dosn't mean the shifted can't recover.

My 2 cents

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These intangible powers, should do 2 things, the first is return phase shifters to reality -and- prevent them from returning into phase.


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I like this idea. Use dimension shift to shift/unshift opponents. This would help equalize the perma phase-shift "problem" I've already run into a few times in the arena.

Dropping toggles would be a nice bonus and would leave the unshifted to imminent danger. However, this fact would probably draw enough objection to keep it from happening.

A single-use AoE Lift seems a bit like a waste of endurance to me. I mean, it would need to have a higher cost than Lift, probably by a fair bit. Otherwise, why use the regular Lift?
For three seconds of villains lyring down (provided they're not knockback resistant or partially held). How long can you keep that up before your endurance runs out, especially if you have any toggles up to keep you alive for longer?
I'd rather drop Crushing Field. They're affected for a longer time, using less endurance over time, and if I hide behind the nearest piece of scenery and just throw out a Crushing Field every time it recharges, I can take down a dozen mobs with a little patience.

Dimension Shift...I like the concept, but it's not really a useful power for every single battle. Alpha Striking and the inability to touch them are probably the main issues, so...
Give Dimension Shift a 100% endurance drain on all affected enemies. Have it halt endurance recovery for ten seconds after the phase wears off. Even five seconds is acceptable.
Enemies are now temporarily crippled, and using Dimension Shift might actually be helpful in tough situations. The ATs designed for endurance drain still have the advantage, because the enemies they affect can still be hurt, herded or killed.
Sure, it's still not an every-battle power, but it's an improvement on a concept that some find interesting. It might see more use.

How about Tar Patch? That seems pretty Gravity-related if you change the colours. I wouldn't mind seeing that with a pulsing Immobilise instead of Crushing Field. Call it Graviton Increase or something, say it makes an area with extra gravity to grab and hold enemies, which coincidentally drops fliers and reduces damage resistance (everything in the field is heavier, so strikes with more force).



I don't think I'd object to the new Wormhole so much if it worked as advertised: to provide a viable secondary form of control. I'll get some numbers eventually for a proper suggestion, but the disorient time (with whatever the devs decide is acceptable slotting) needs to last from the point that Gravity Distortion Field wears off to the time it recharges (again, with acceptable slotting but no Hasten, a build needs to be viable without it).
Once that's in, just dump the knockback component and I don't think I'd complain too much. Sure, I can't pull single mobs any more, but the reason that would be a problem is if I have no means of controlling everything I pull for the duration of the battle. If I can keep the pack of Fire Thorn Casters locked down (and not scattered so that the next hold only affects half the group) with alternating Holds and Disorients, I don't care if I pull 5 or 50. In five minutes, my Singularities will have eaten them anyway.