[ QUOTE ]
It's the rule rather than the exception.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly! Starting in the 10s, all the way up to 30, I started getting missions with 'hidden' bosses. Either this is one hell of a major bug, and we're talking a T-Rex-sized bug, or it has always been intentional.
Okay, at this point I suspect Statesman has quit reading this thread and this is a post that is going to be a waste of my time, but faint heart never won fair maiden (or whatever).
Read the following and then answer the question at the end (or just skip to the end if you prefer).
Here's a mission I accepted friday. Part of the Praetorian arc (which is AV heavy, never mind bosses).
SPOILER!
The mission description is as follows:
'Defeat all villains in area
Tina Macintyre: Guess what, MagIce! Anti-Matter and Neuron come from the same world! It seemed like they knew each other, so I had the technicians take another look at the data from Neuron's dimension. Despite Neuron's dimensional scrambler, we were able to match several distinguishing features with the data from Anti-Matter's dimension. Both villains are from Upsilon-Beta 9-6! Call me crazy, but I think Paragon City got caught in the middle of a power struggle between supervillains.
We're sending you to a remote corner of Upsilon-Beta 9-6 to plant a network of dimensional scanners. That way we'll know if anyone on that world opens a portal to this one, even if Anti-matter gets his stealth portal technology working.
By the way, the techs have come up with a new name for Upsilon-Beta 9-6. We're calling it 'Praetorian Earth.'
Here are the scanners. They feed off the bioelectric energy, so you should find some animals to place them on.'
My question is: Does it mention anywhere in that mission description that I'm going up against a frigging Arch Villain and should bring a team?
If you honestly believe that mission descriptions are providing us with correct and appropriate information, Statesman, then may I respectfully suggest that when it comes to your own game, you don't know jack. 
I have another great one here... I got a council mission from a contact in Bricks, and I don't have the description handy, but basically all it said was that I am to stop the council from resurrecting some of their old members (retrieve 4 corpses, defeat all enemies). No mention of a boss or anything. So, I manage to get through to the end, and low and behold, a Council vampire (orange) boss. Named Ulor. As in a named boss. So I suck down half my inspirations and get to work. After a little cat and mouse, I'm able to take him down. Or so I thought. He transforms into an (orange) Eclipse Warwolf (boss) at full health of course. So now I am fighting a 2nd boss in a row with my inspirations severely depleted. He nails me once for 90% of my health (one shot), but I manage to escape. I exit the mission, find a contact and buy all lucks, head back and suck 'em down and managed to chase this idiot all through the map until I'm able take him down.
Anyway, point is, no warning, yet a named boss that all of a sudden becomes yet another boss to handle.
Yeah, I love having to run out of my missions to buy inspirations all the time. Fun fun.
Yeah well... this one time, I was killed by a Liutenant when I ran naked through a Rikti base.
LIUTENANTS NEED TO BE NERFED!
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, point is, no warning, yet a named boss that all of a sudden becomes yet another boss to handle.
[/ QUOTE ]
Statesman already posted that they're working on an interface to show when bosses show up and if a mission is supposed to be soloable or not.
As for dying to a boss, that's supposed to happen. Just because it isn't as common as you would expect from reading the manual doesn't mean bosses aren't meant to be hard. I for one, have always wanted things to be tougher. We're slowly getting there, now I can have a challenge.
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't really pay attention until yesterday, but I know every missions I did yesterday could not be completed without defeating the boss.
[/ QUOTE ]
I certainly believe you, but, unless you did a pretty small number of missions, that's pretty unusual. Stealth BTW is a good power to ramp up the percentage of missions one can do without fighting bosses.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, but if you read this thread you will see many, many instances where his statement is still untrue.
[/ QUOTE ]
Er, well, true, I didn't read the whole thread. I agree, though, that there're two known cases of boss-defeat objectives going unlisted-- one exists defacto in every boss-spawning mission that has the bug that it fails to list it's a defeat all. That bug I've been ranting about for months. The other two are specialty stories that hinge on a stealth boss. Akarist and Terra are the ones I remember.
The first is a longstanding bug. The second is trickery that I guess we allow for the greater good of storyline. The latter may be need rethunk in light of I3, but the former is a no-surprises bug.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
Weird Controller Powers | Conf & XP/Time | Controller Damage
Being a Healer | The word Necessary | Natural Concept Characters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, point is, no warning, yet a named boss that all of a sudden becomes yet another boss to handle.
[/ QUOTE ]
Statesman already posted that they're working on an interface to show when bosses show up and if a mission is supposed to be soloable or not.
As for dying to a boss, that's supposed to happen. Just because it isn't as common as you would expect from reading the manual doesn't mean bosses aren't meant to be hard. I for one, have always wanted things to be tougher. We're slowly getting there, now I can have a challenge.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, goodie for you... But judging from the posts on this thread you are in the minority as far as being satisfied with the changes. The mission slider was implemented so that you can up your challenge, unfortunately the difficulty being upped is forced on all of us currently.
Yes, there's a mission difficulty slider now to provide a challenge to those of us who want more than your average gamer. But there's also a manual that states 3 even con minions per hero and that bosses are not to be trifled with. Too bad they're still trying to work this into our reality.
You wouldn't want them to get sued for falsely advertising a product or anything would you?
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, there's a mission difficulty slider now to provide a challenge to those of us who want more than your average gamer. But there's also a manual that states 3 even con minions per hero and that bosses are not to be trifled with. Too bad they're still trying to work this into our reality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Alas, the face of the game changed pretty much overnight as far as soloability, regardless if the way the game was before was their Vision(tm) or not. It also seems like a lot of the players liked it the way it was before, but not so much now... I'm not even opposed to upping the difficulty some, I just think it was way overdone.
[ QUOTE ]
You wouldn't want them to get sued for falsely advertising a product or anything would you?
[/ QUOTE ]
Uhm, yeah, I'm sure this was a problem... Now you are just being silly. 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Except for the fact that Statesman has said that ALL ATs should be able to solo, that's almost a good point.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually only part of what I've said. Solo players should always have something to do...I've never said that everything is solo-able (some missions are, others aren't), or that every Archetype can solo as effectively as another.
If a player sees a boss of his level, he should probably get help...
[/ QUOTE ]
I predict that the changes you've made to the game will result in defenders and controllers dropping beneficial team powers like leadership and teleport in order to take things like "tough" and "weave" so they can stay around a little longer, and these ATs will become less frequent (game hours, availability for teaming) at higher levels because they are less fun to play. The net result will be weaker support, less of it available, and less build variety (as in "everybody has to take stamina"). So, the changes will be detrimental to team and game play, opposite of the intended effect. I wish I could compare stats from December to the ones you'll get in February, but I bet they would support this theory.
[ QUOTE ]
Er, well, true, I didn't read the whole thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you just read the page that this post is on, you would have seen several more specific instances. In fact it looks like the brand new Stiga Island missions are full of them (had two like that last night myself). So it isn't even a case of old missions that haven't been reformed, lots of the missions that went in just last week have this same problem: bosses that have to be killed to finish a mission but are not even hinted at in the mission text.
Scorus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't really pay attention until yesterday, but I know every missions I did yesterday could not be completed without defeating the boss.
[/ QUOTE ]
I certainly believe you, but, unless you did a pretty small number of missions, that's pretty unusual. Stealth BTW is a good power to ramp up the percentage of missions one can do without fighting bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not unusual at all. I get must-be-killed bosses all the time that aren't mentioned in the mission text. As a scrapper, this isn't a big deal (even post lv25), but it does happen.
I agree that the boss difficulty is too high. I find it rediculous as a blaster that I cannot win a mission anymore that has a boss in it.
The thing I loved about this game, it's ability to scale to the individual or groups needs, has been lost to over-amped bosses that make the missions they are on impossible to do without a group. We shouldn't be forced to group.
Sharph well put,I agree with you,but this has been Cryptic's attitude,from the start with other issues in the game,the forced missions at the creation start of the game is indicitive of this.
I personally don't appreciate being forced to team,I am getting debt. like crazy now,and it is not fun!
Jack said that Bosses were never meant to be soloed,well I say you should be able to solo them,with some difficulty of course.Being a Superhero to means that I can solo a Boss,how can I be a Superhero if I can't do that? what good am I? I just become a Hero,being able to beat up Lts.,and minions,any Hero can do,but to be a Superhero you gotta be able to Beat a Boss!
I like the new Challenge of the Bosses,I just think they went a bit to far is all.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Except for the fact that Statesman has said that ALL ATs should be able to solo, that's almost a good point.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually only part of what I've said. Solo players should always have something to do...I've never said that everything is solo-able (some missions are, others aren't), or that every Archetype can solo as effectively as another.
If a player sees a boss of his level, he should probably get help...
[/ QUOTE ]
That is the most anti superhero thing I've heard yet. In the comics, how lame would it be if superheros had to run and get help everytime they came up against a boss? I'm not even talking about archvillians like Doctor Octapus, Shocker, Kraven the Hunter, etc. I'm talking about run of the mill thug bosses. I'm starting to wonder if this game is even based on comic type superheros in any way besides graphics.
The problem CoH is having is they are slowing taking away the feeling of being a superhero and replacing it with typical unoriginal MMO game mechanics. It takes more than fireballs and energy blast graphics to make someone feel like a superhero.
It seems to me that this vision of how bosses should be handled makes the players more like policemen and less like heros. We have to call for back up for most encounters.
I just hope that in City of Villians, the player villians are as tough as the CoH villians. If so, I will be able to trash equal level heros with no real problems. Maybe in some warped way, I'll get to feel like a superhero again.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm starting to wonder if this game is even based on comic type superheros in any way besides graphics.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its rapidly going in the direction "EQ in spandex". I guess we will have to live with it or leave......
Torden - Lvl 50 Electric blast / Electric manipulation / Electric mastery Blaster - Triumph
General Thrax - Lvl 50 Mercenaries / Poison / Mace mastery Mastermind - Freedom
I just tried to do a Mission solo,and died 3 times! Killed in 2 sh-3 shots! That's crazy man! This game is good overall,but my subscription runs out at the end of the month,I am looking for reasons to justify staying,the last 10 min. just gave me the incentive get Ghost!
I have been here since Beta,and gone through all the frustrations,and the great Highs,there are other issues with the game not just this,but this just tore it for me Man!
Maybe I will be back when C.O.V. Rolls around,I can't imagine not playing,not talking to all the friends I ahve made online,but a message has to be sent,and the best way is with my wallet..
Have fun all..
I just tried to do a Mission solo,and died 3 times! Killed in 2-3 shots! That's crazy man! This game is good overall,but my subscription runs out at the end of the month,I am looking for reasons to justify staying,the last 10 min. just gave me the incentive get Ghost!
I have been here since Beta,and gone through all the frustrations,and the great Highs,there are other issues with the game not just this,but this just tore it for me Man!
Maybe I will be back when C.O.V. Rolls around,I can't imagine not playing,not talking to all the friends I ahve made online,but a message has to be sent,and the best way is with my wallet..
Have fun all..
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah well... this one time, I was killed by a Liutenant when I ran naked through a Rikti base.
LIUTENANTS NEED TO BE NERFED!
[/ QUOTE ]
Jeez, where the hell do people like this come from. The people listed above post legitimate beefs with whats been said then this tard shows up and throws in a sarcastic comment. This is the same kid that at age 9 ran up and smacked the giant wasp nest with a stick then left all his friends to get stung.
Oh, and dont be surprised to see another beef up of minions and lieutenants. They wanted to do it with issue 3 and didnt because they couldnt find a happy medium. Never said they stopped looking.
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
[ QUOTE ]
That is the most anti superhero thing I've heard yet. In the comics, how lame would it be if superheros had to run and get help everytime they came up against a boss? I'm not even talking about archvillians like Doctor Octapus, Shocker, Kraven the Hunter, etc. I'm talking about run of the mill thug bosses. I'm starting to wonder if this game is even based on comic type superheros in any way besides graphics.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, not all supervillains in the comics equate to AVs in CoH. Many, like Shocker, Kraven, Rhino, and The Vulture, are more like bosses or elite bosses. An Archvillain is a villain who has the charisma or power to command other named villains. Dock Ock (in the comics) often used bosses like The Lizard or Scorpion in his plans. The movie Doc Ock is more like an elite boss.
Granted, this only strengthens your argument.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't really pay attention until yesterday, but I know every missions I did yesterday could not be completed without defeating the boss.
[/ QUOTE ]
I certainly believe you, but, unless you did a pretty small number of missions, that's pretty unusual. Stealth BTW is a good power to ramp up the percentage of missions one can do without fighting bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, now we're suppose to use stealth to avoid villains? Some heroes we are. Batman and Superman must be proud. (I know this seems kinda like a personal attack against you personally. But honestly, how can you make a game about heroes and design it so the heroes have to do something like what was posted above?)
'If Champions Online is what "CoH was supposed to be", I'm glad that I have what I have rather than "what it was supposed to be".' - The Alt oholic
"I solo'd Hamidon...but I also totally cheated." - Back Alley Brawler
"It is still early. Someone is going to get stabbed tonight I can feel it." - Ishmael (said in Jello Shooters chat)
[ QUOTE ]
Consider the following:
1. Invulnerable (and to a lesser extent Regen) scrappers were nerfed with U 3.
2. Scrappers are supposed to be the AT most able to solo, the boss killers.
3. Things got incredibly harder for us, but scrappers like a challenge - if we didn't like a challenge no dark scrappers would exist.
IMHO, I fear no nerf bat, it has already hit me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well that's fine for you mister scrapper, but what do the rest of us do when we get one shot killed by bosses in our own missions at the weakest difficulty setting. Scrapper can and always has been able to solo. At 32 I stopped playing my main blaster because it was too hard to solo anything and teams were scarce. That was before issue 3. Now you have no chance of surviving a mission solo after level 25 unless you are tanker or scrapper (or a controller hiding behind pets).
So let's see the new ATs require a level 50 character to unlock. To accomplish this here's your choices:
1 Play scrapper
2 Play tanker
3 Get power leveled to 50
Yep so much for fun.
And if you really want a challenge, stop hiding behind your scrapper defenses and hit points for a while. Try soloing a blaster in a mission.
Earlier I did the two CoT missions that awards the Frontline badge. Nowhere does the text mention anything about bosses. The first mission was fine, no bosses.
The second mission had, not one, but four bosses (death mages) and it was a defeat all mission. They were spread out, and I was able to complete the missions. However, I had to run out and get inspirations every time I went up against the bosses.
Oddly enough, they didn't seem to hit nearly as hard as their counterparts in Founder's Falls do, especially for being +1. They didn't even see to hit as hard as Death Mages did before Issue 3.
I'm sure I would have visited the hospital a few times if they we're hitting as hard as normal. Thats something odd I've been noticing with bosses since issue 3 went live. Sometimes they're extremely tough, other times they don't do much of anything. I don't remember seeing this kind of inconsistency before issue 3.
[ QUOTE ]
So this is even the case for missions that went live recently, not just the older ones, and it is gating the entire Stiga Island mission series for me.
[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't got very far in the Striga Island missions myself, but one of the early ones from Stephanie Peebles has a surprise Council boss that you're required to defeat (it's a kill all mission). There's another surprise Council boss in a timed mission, but he's not part of the objectives.
I have been checking carefully for even a remote hint of a boss in the mission descriptions. Over the past two days I've been required to defeat at least seven bosses. There were exactly zero hints of even a leader in any of those missions prior to accepting them. A couple revealed that there would be a named leader only AFTER accepting the mission.
This matches my memories of old missions. Bosses have much more often than not been a surprise. In fact very many missions in the 30s require you to defeat all opponents even if that isn't mentioned in the mission objectives!
I see no point in /bugging it, as Statesman suggests. It's the rule rather than the exception. Most missions with bosses in them simply have no warning. A huge overhaul in the text for missions would be required.