Dev team: Are you forcing me to group?

[ QUOTE ]
Some content is group only, other is solo available. Deal with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree.


Never are you forced to do anything in the game, except the Tutorial. You CAN solo, its more about what content you are talking about doing solo that is in question. Even the weakest of heroes can still fight it out alone, but he is probably going to be limited to small groups of greens. If this is what you are doing are you making sure you build your hero accordingly, or are you picking a support class hero with support type powers then complaining that you can't play solo?

Sounds to me like you are more concerned with gaining enough experience just to outfit yourself with SOs. Got news for you, all ATs need to work to get their respective enhancements. You sound like a blaster that has been reduced to a controller's xp earning capability and are complaining about it.

Just because you are getting spoiled with all of the drops and xp pre-issue #2, doesn't mean that now, all of the sudden, the game has become an xp prude and you now are not being rewarded. It IS the reward you're talking about, right...not the actual fun?

You're gonna level a bit slower...get over it. Besides, the game gives out too much influence and enhacement rewards post lvl 30 anyway. Hah! That ought to cause some debate! LOL

[ QUOTE ]
Ah... I see. I assumed your concern was regarding access to missions & storyline. Oops. Silly me.

<shrug> I don't street hunt - with either my group or my solo character - because I find it boring. My soloer, however, is a claws/SR scrapper, & solos on missions, which means generally white-con minions, yellow lieutenants & orange bosses. At 22 she was able to upgrade half her enhancements to SOs & at 23 the other half; since influence becomes less of an issue with leveling, I don't think you'll have that much of a problem. At worst you'll have to wait a level to upgrade the second half of your SOs, which shouldn't be that much of a trial.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, maybe. I will wait and see for sure, but the whole point of this post is to not get a cryptic answer, so to speak, but to get a specific Design Decision Statement...so that I know what action to take if any.

My account is coming due, and if these changes are so negative that I am reduced to rubble because of them, can no longer perform adequately without being forced to group, and therefore have all my (granted: limited) fun game play removed, then my purpose for playing has ended and it's time to move on.

I also make the point that I would be really sad about that, because I think this is the greatest game ever conceived! And I've said it before I'll say it again, I don't even CARE ABOUT SUPER HEROS! I'm not a comic store guy. If I did care, it would be to say that Archer AT should have been included, along with some others, only because as a kid I enjoyed those types of heros.

I play the game the way I do because I MUST play it that way. If this is changing so that my game play is being hammered at the complaints of a community that can't mind it's own business, and it's more important to address them than me, then I am left no choice at all.

Well at least you finally explained your concerns rather than just saying "I've been reading some bad reviews from the vocal minority" ...

EVERYTHING (in my experience on the test server) is increased in missions ... Experience, Enhancements, and Influence.

The first mission I did there (when you start with ZERO influence from transfering your hero), got me more than 40k influence (at level 22) ... That was (and still is) UNHEARD of for me on the live servers.

I had lots of enhancements to sell (and use) and arrest influence and mission influence is much higher.

Now I don't hunt (except maybe to complete a level when real close before starting a mission) ... Missions are all I do ...

In terms of advancement, enhancements, and challenge (sure it's a bit tougher ... But I think that is good) ... From what I've seen on the test server ... Issue 2 is MORE solo friendly than what is currently live. Keeping in mind that I built a hero to solo with (even if it's not one of the more powerful solo builds).

Lots of posts say these things ... Why not listen to them over the few whiney ones ???

Frankly, I don't care if you play or not. But I do care about posts which are either factually wrong and based totally on hearsay (posts that simply continue the myth), or whiney rants with grand threats of quitting if their demands aren't met ... Basically ... Posts like your original in this thread.

So ... Go ahead and quit based on whiney posts. Or give Issue 2 a try and decide for yourself.

Either way though ... You're being told over and over that you'll be able to solo in Issue 2 ... You can't believe that but you can easily believe some whining over how tough it is now ... Most likely from people who think that Smoke Grenade was nerfed rather than fixed ...

I can solo at lvl 41 as a emp/psy defender. I probably have the worst build imaginable for soloing. I mean I have all my heals, leadership buffs, etc. - I'm TOTALLY slotted for grouping.

But I can solo missions np. I can solo white cons (depending on zone) np.

And I'm a group build. And you have a solo build and you can't solo? Are you kidding me? Do you not have a keyboard? Is the mouse unplugged?

You want to solo? It's quite easy (and boring). Make a fire/dev blaster, or scrapper with invulnerability. I'd go with scrapper. You can solo to you your hearts content. There are many other builds, but these 2 can get you started.

[ QUOTE ]
I see, so if I posed the question in this manner...

"If I solo 1 hour every other night, am I not rewarded now?" perhaps it will be cleared up.

It's not a debate. If I have the perception that I am no longer rewarded for casually playing the game, then I will no longer play. But I do deserve a direct answer on this issue, and therefore I am asking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on what you mean by "rewarded". If you're truly playing casually, then the main reward you'll be out for is fun. XP would be secondary at best. Are you going to level every night? No.

It peeves me when people throw around the term "playing casually" when talking about how they don't gain xp fast enough. Casual players aren't obsessed with their xp rate... "Casual playing" has nothing to do with amount of time spent playing.

[ QUOTE ]
Frankly, I don't care if you play or not. But I do care about posts which are either factually wrong and based totally on hearsay (posts that simply continue the myth), or whiney rants with grand threats of quitting if their demands aren't met ... Basically ... Posts like your original in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm simply asking the development team the question.

I make no statement one way or the other, except to say that I am concerned about these changes based upon the feedback I have read so far. Therefore, DEV should drop in and answer the question CLEARLY. Is there a Design Decision to remove soloing as a viable option?

The fact that you read too much into it and now are angry to the point of not being able to make your day complete without 'saying something' is not my problem. You'll just have to get over it...won't you.

I prefer waiting and seeing for myself, rather than making a snap decision based on the negative feedback.

But in this case, why should I listen to you? Your statement suggests that you are a typical fanboi, and would promote the product regardless if it were badly designed or not. So, listening to your response is tantamount to that which you apparently despise the most...listening to somebody else's opinion which happens to be negative.

No, I'll make up my mind for myself as usual. It would be convenient if I didn't have to recycle the account and pay for that, when the developers intentions would wreck my game play forcing me to leave early after paying, though.

It all comes down to this:

This is a GREAT game. If they ruin it, it's only because they listened to the wrong people and took it in the standard direction that so many other failures have. Negative game play changes ARE negative changes to the game play. A = A. This always reduces the fun of a product. It's not a new challenge, it's less potential fun.

If we are being forced into playing a certain way that I cannot, then I cannot be a player anymore. And that would be sad, I love this game.

[ QUOTE ]
But in this case, why should I listen to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I copied over to the Test server and have played under the update?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But in this case, why should I listen to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I copied over to the Test server and have played under the update?

[/ QUOTE ]

Watch out with that logic stuff there.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But in this case, why should I listen to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I copied over to the Test server and have played under the update?

[/ QUOTE ]

So have most of the others who have negative feedback. This doesn't make you any different than them. Only the opinions are different.

This is why I asked for a response from the DEV team, and not the fanbois.

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I asked for a response from the DEV team, and not the fanbois.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and then you get into name-calling trolling.

If you want a response just from the devs, email them. Posting on the forums invites response from EVERYONE on the forum.

"Casual playing has nothing to do with amount of time spent playing."

As usual you are wrong. Casual playing has everything to do with limited amounts of time playing. The opposite is power gaming, which is obessive/compulsive behavior and translates in to a huge amount of time spent playing. It's all about time.

I don't think anyone is being forced to group. Just about any blaster or scrapper can solo in CoH way better than any class in any other MMORPG. Are changes coming that will make grouping more appealing? God, I hope so. It is a multiplayer game, after all, and there needs to be an incentive to group. But I don't see how that affects your ability to solo. Obviously, challenges completed by a group are going to offer better rewards. If soloing was the best way to go, why would anyone group?

So no, your ability to solo isn't going away. You simply aren't going to (hopefully) get the best experience and rewards doing so, which is exactly how it should be.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But in this case, why should I listen to you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I copied over to the Test server and have played under the update?

[/ QUOTE ]

So have most of the others who have negative feedback. This doesn't make you any different than them. Only the opinions are different.

This is why I asked for a response from the DEV team, and not the fanbois.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a fanboy, but if we're giving out names, how about I call you an anxious whiner?

Fact: I play solo when I'm on Test. I don't group. It hasn't been noticably harder for me to play with either a Defender or a Scrapper. I succeeded in getting my cape, earning my aura.

[ QUOTE ]
Is there a Design Decision to remove soloing as a viable option?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say no, there isn't. After all, they removed "group" missions from story arcs at the request of soloers, so I'd say they're still very well aware that CoH attracts a soloing component.

Now, the question of how "rewarding" soloing is, is different. My guess is that they never intended soloers to be soloing orange-to-purples, & that may be what's been toned down. (I'm all for that.)

Wepps, can some up your problem in one simple comment.

Really,..


Go Try It Yourself.


Then you will know for sure what you are up against and what is in store.

Demanding answers, believing you deserve some personal attention to your questions.

Choosing not to listen to those who are actually over there and are succeeding (some will succeed some won't no matter what the situation is).

THe only way, for you to know. is for you to try.

The dev's could come here and tell you all is the same and you could find that while they beleived that - it wasn't true FOR you.

That is the key thing, for you.

I have no problem soloing on the test server, a lot of people have no problems over there. I actually don't even notice a difference.

You may.

It doesn't matter what I say, he says she says or devs say and any information you take from us will be as good as it is at face value. Our experience.

Try it yourself, then make your own decision. You don't have to wait till it goes live to find out. That is your choice.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the reason you get some controversy on this issue, is that people are choosing an odd definition for "forced".

If you are forced to group, it would mean that you could not solo for experience. You would have to group to advance at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm afraid I must disagree with your definition. I love this game, and will likely continue to play it unless they make some really bad changes, and I see nothing like that in the future. However, my definition of forced group play means that if I cannot experience ALL content as a soloer, then that missing content is forcing me to group. Not forced grouping to play the game, true, but forced if I want to experience it all. And making a comment like "deal with it" is hardly constructive and could be used for anything. Bombs are falling in your city, deal with it.

[ QUOTE ]
Your statement suggests that you are a typical fanboi, and would promote the product regardless if it were badly designed or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong ... My statement suggests I have played on the test server and have seen the changes for myself. It is an answer to your question about soloing in Issue 2. Sure I like this game ... Why would I waste any time on it if I didn't. But there are some things I don't like about it ... I simply choose not to whine about those things ... If that's what a fanboi is then I guess that's me.

[ QUOTE ]
So, listening to your response is tantamount to that which you apparently despise the most...listening to somebody else's opinion which happens to be negative.

[/ QUOTE ]

Touche' ... Although "despise", and your prior use of the word "angry", are not remotely accurate. It's more ... Providing accurate information based on personal experience in an attempt to dispell the myth.

Gaming forums, contrary to popular belief and posting habits, are a place to gain information about the game. Misinformation, exaggerations, hearsay, and flat out false claims do not provide information ...

I care that the content of the forums is relavent to the game (notice I don't despise or get angry about it) so something beyond OMG!!1!one!1 U NERF MY SG I QUIT can be found out here. What I want is to be able to waste some "casual" time at work here and be rewarded with entertainment and information ... Not COH IS TEH SUK CUZ U NERF MY SG !!!1!1!

But enough about me ... YOU are the one taking people's negative posts for granted. Has there been a single post in this thread saying soloing is impossible now ???

[ QUOTE ]
No, I'll make up my mind for myself as usual.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again ... YOU'RE the one who said ... (paraphrased) Based on a few posts I'm gonna have to quit so I want an official response from Cryptic so I don't waste any more money on a game that I can't be rewarded for playing casually.

When all you have to do is spend a little of your precious time seeing it for yourself on the test server if it's that important to you.

OR ... You could take the word of the many posters in this thread who HAVE played on test and are telling you that soloing is not a problem in Issue 2.

As someone else posted ... If you wanted an official answer about this from a Dev, then you'd have emailed or PMed them. Posting it here and arguing with replies designed to answer your question ... is Trolling.

Admit it ... You're not happy about Smoke Grenade are you.

Greetings,
I Don't think Wepps has articulated his point exactly.(I may be wrong) But what I think he is trying to say is this:
City of Heroes appealed to ALOT of people, including myself: because when it first came out, it was VERY solo friendly and a casual gamer could log on for an hour, solo and still make visible progress.
After experiencing other games (EQ being the worst case in point) which paid lip service to soloing, or freedom to pick you own path,being tweaked over time to minimize solo play or require grouping, I for one welcomed City of Heroes.In the case of EQ, once you get lvl 55 or so, if you are not in a good "Raiding" guild, most of the higher end content, and rewards are simply unatainable.
So Wepps concern as I see it, and with which I agree, is that someone who enjoys the game, but is not into group play is going to need to resort to grouping to advance his character in the hour or so he can play a night.
It was my opinion during beta and early release that the Devs were not interested in making the players "GRIND IT OUT", but the point was to have fun. Grinding is not fun.
Just because the hard core gamers found it too easy should not be a reason to tweak the game.
Many of us just want to have fun..we are not interested in grouping as we would like to enjoy the content on our own and still progress.
Personally I wish they would put in a game difficulty slider that adjusted your exp and influence rewards so the people that say it is too easy could make it harder for themselves and the casual gamer could slide it up all the way to it's max.
If the pro-grouping or grinders are all about a challenging game, then good for you . You can make it harder.. just don't worry if the solo'rs level at a faster pace that you.
the fact that people care if others can solo fast is immature in my opinion. We all pay our monthly fee. We should be able to enjoy the game at our own pace and in our own style.

The ultimate logic to this is, if everyone can solo fast, everyone should be able to solo equally fast.

Most defenders, I'm betting, take twice as long to 50 as blasters. Please, tell me the "logic" of that. I'd like to see some datamining on that.

And if everyone can solo so fast, why should you create a class (empathy) that has half its powers as OTHER ONLY. Please justify that. What's the point of having an other only class in a soloing game?

And is the argument that everything in Coh should be soloable. Should you be able to solo Hamidon? Why bother investing in servers? The stuff is on your comp, you can solo offline.

And I don't buy the "casual gamer" argument. I've got a full time job. I group. I don't even have a super group. Just pick up groups. Because that's what I enjoy.

My criteria for staying long term in a MMORPG is the ongoing ability to solo and experience the game fully.

The moment(read: Trials of Atlantis)the developers start forcing me to group to experience more content in the game is the time I say Adios(good bye).

Doctornick,
I never said every AT should be soloable at the same pace.
Clearly anyone with common sense can see that some AT's and some Builds work better solo. Just becausee you want to play a defender that will take a week to hit lvl 20 should not prevent me from playing a blaster and hitting lvl 20 in two days. Why do you care how fast I can level as opposed to you?
[ QUOTE ]
And if everyone can solo so fast, why should you create a class (empathy) that has half its powers as OTHER ONLY. Please justify that. What's the point of having an other only class in a soloing game?

[/ QUOTE ] I never said anyone can solo so fast, nor did I say grouping isnt necessary. It just should not be required
[ QUOTE ]
And is the argument that everything in Coh should be soloable. Should you be able to solo Hamidon? Why bother investing in servers? The stuff is on your comp, you can solo offline.

[/ QUOTE ] I did not say EVERYTHING in CoH should be soloable. And tell me how to run the game offline.. I would love that.
[ QUOTE ]
And I don't buy the "casual gamer" argument. I've got a full time job. I group. I don't even have a super group. Just pick up groups. Because that's what I enjoy.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what YOU enjoy. that was my point. YOU should enjoy the game how YOU like. and I should have the ability to enjoy the game as I like it. No harm, no foul.
For the record I am the leader of my supergroup, we have 40 members and we group alot.

[ QUOTE ]
However, I am seeing a general trend in these posts, and reports from test server, that the ENTIRE GAME is about to become group-only in order to survive in the field.


[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't really seen that kind of effect on the two characters I copied over to test to try things out. In fact, they both perform better on Test then on Live due to some of the changes to powers they have made on test.

[ QUOTE ]
I chose my primary character because his power-set combinations were capable of soloing on a casual level. I just don't have the time to locate 'good' groups who aren't there just to grief me, and take the proper time to devote my attention in support of those groups.


[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty hard for anyone to enlighten you as to whether you will be able to solo as well with your main when you are withholding the AT/Powersets.

[ QUOTE ]


However, I am seeing a general trend in these posts, and reports from test server, that the ENTIRE GAME is about to become group-only in order to survive in the field.



[/ QUOTE ]

I’m not sure what you are trying to get at. If you are suggesting that you should be able to solo all the content in the game you are flat out wrong.

MMO’s are a group experience first and foremost, ya it’s nice to have some things you can do solo for the times when you are waiting for a group and it’s even better to have enough solo activities that you never need to group. The latter is what the devs are trying to provide, and it’s what they mean when they say everyone should be able to solo.

What you seem to be complaining about is that there are things you can’t do solo. Consider this, if you can do something solo how much fun could it be for a group? Unless something requires coordinated effort and cooperation it is not truly a group task and is not going to be enjoyable for a group to do.

If you were to be able to do everything in the game solo this would necessitate removing all group content from the game, but a majority of people playing are looking for group activities and therefore group content. The single biggest problem with this game and the one most likely to kill it is that there is very very little group content, and very few things that benefit at all from having a group.

You have plenty of things you can do solo and will continue to have plenty of things to do solo. This even includes many things that were supposed to be group/team activities to begin with.

Why is it that you object to having things added to the game to give the people who want to group (the majority) interesting and fun things to do? Is it because being able to solo group content has made you feel like legitimate solo activities are beneath you?

[ QUOTE ]
I make no statement one way or the other, except to say that I am concerned about these changes based upon the feedback I have read so far. Therefore, DEV should drop in and answer the question CLEARLY. Is there a Design Decision to remove soloing as a viable option?
( . . . )
I prefer waiting and seeing for myself, rather than making a snap decision based on the negative feedback.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is no need to make a snap decision, and no need to wait until your billing cycle refreshes, and no need to rely on the feedback from others, negative or positive. You can copy your main character to the test server and give it a try yourself, and see if the changes make the game unplayable (or no longer fun) or not.